Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
So, what does this mean, functionally? Can we take their ghosts into Sanctuary and have the Wheel sort them out?
Functionally you have a bunch of ghosts, assuming they are OK with being taken to Sanctuary you can.
He did not pass though, he just avoided stepping into it to begin with, Harry technically had to pass up on a will save to end up taking the tests.
Can the Labyrinth tempt Harry again, or is he now immune to it, having passed its trial?
How much space does this thing even take up? Molly has a chunky aura right now and can be very fast if she wants to be. Could we just zip around the catacombs and steal back the remaining wizards?
Alternatively, and this is a stretch, didn't we get a ruling that charm synergy between TTC and MHM allows Molly to construct large scale projects herself? Essentially"build a shell around all of Chicago" sized projects that she telekinetically operates tools for all across the working area.
Trying to do something magical to the labyrinth out of spite probably isn't in the cards as an on the spot thing, but could we carve out warnings and signs across it by treating it as a refurbishment effort? With Molly's speed boost something that simple performed at multiple locations could be fairly quick to do.
Alternatively, and this is a stretch, didn't we get a ruling that charm synergy between TTC and MHM allows Molly to construct large scale projects herself? Essentially"build a shell around all of Chicago" sized projects that she telekinetically operates tools for all across the working area.
Trying to do something magical to the labyrinth out of spite probably isn't in the cards as an on the spot thing, but could we carve out warnings and signs across it by treating it as a refurbishment effort? With Molly's speed boost something that simple performed at multiple locations could be fairly quick to do.
Damned Labyrinth!! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!!
Harry's out of Essence, just when we actually need it.
We're left with McCoy as backup, I guess.
And probably Sophia, because good odds we'll need a healer.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1) Is Molly's shintai down?
2) If we take Lydia with us, will the souls of the dead come with her, or can she tell them to linger near their bodies?
We're left with McCoy as backup, I guess.
And probably Sophia, because good odds we'll need a healer.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1) Is Molly's shintai down?
2) If we take Lydia with us, will the souls of the dead come with her, or can she tell them to linger near their bodies?
- Not yet
- They can stick around. There is no pull forcing them to move on. It's just that once they figure out that they are dead most people want to. These particular wizards would likely want to know what's with the silver light that makes them solid before anything else.
We got a ruling that SSC wouldn't work on it because the labyrinth isn't a person earlier.
It occurs to me that we have a fortune path sorcerer though, and Molly can boost rituals by assisting with them as she did with Bane the littlest house god. Probably take too long to do right now, but cursing the crap out of this place that way later might have potential.
If we have time for it at all later I'd be tempted to try something more extreme though, like carving a splendor into it that abuses how it connects to reality in an effort to spread something with vile effects on Outsiders to every place it touches.
Just imagine fumigating the little bastards out of Creation's basement by forcing them to keep perfect shaping defenses up at all times on pain of being reprogrammed to sabotage their own schemes, or basically implementing a kitbashed avatar storm that exclusively effects their faction(s).
How effective it is depends on how truthful Marcus was being when he described it as being the foundation reality is built on and how that interacts with the rest of the world.
Wild Bill is the Warden in charge of Texas, Oklahoma and an indeterminate chunk of the west, under Harry.
Chandler is the White Council's Time/Divination specialist.
The others appear to be OCs.
Wild Bill got killed by Drakul in canon. Lessee if we can offer him a better choice.
Okay, fair enough.
What Would Michael Do is a major Intimacy; Molly isnt going to simply leave people behind.
So we are going spelunking again.
Molly + Sophia + Lydia + Harry + 1 sorcerer + 3 Weavers go back dungeon diving; we'll need the Weavers for carrying bodies and tranqing them.
Leave 2x Sanctuary sorcerers + 2 Weavers to back up the Merlin; thats half the fire team.
Leave the two captured Wardens here as well.
Ebenezar decides where he wants to be.
@DragonParadox is Harry immune to the Labyrinth right now?
Yes in the metaphysical sense but the things that live there likely hold a grudge.
Ordinarily,
==========
VOTE
[X] Plan Trauma Team
-[X] Propose going back into the Labyrinth to save the six who are lost in it somehow
-[X] Team: Molly + Sophia + Lydia + Harry + 1x Sanctuary Sorcerer + 3x Weavers + Ebenezar McCoy?
-[X] STUNT: You compose yourself before speaking."We're missing half a dozen Wardens." you announce tersely, freezing everyone in the room. "So we need to go back in and get them." Lydia nods firmly, before turning to talk quietly to the shades as you focus your attention. "Mr Merlin." You consider him briefly, then continue 'Those three" you gesture briefly"need to be sedated and restrained for treatment. Im leaving you four people" A pair of sorcerers step forward at Sophia's prompting, accompanied by two Weavers, "to help with site security." You turn to go back the way you came "We have to hurry, I think. See you in a bit."
RATIONALE
We retrieve them now, or we will have to fight and kill them in the future.
And Molly made Carlos a promise about his friends.
Molly is the primary combat tank, and she has Occult as Key.
If finding our way through the Labyrinth is a magical thing, she's primary tracker, rolling 13 dice (Perception 4 + Occult 5 + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2) at -5DC(All Things Betray 3 + BSM 1 + King and Kingdom 1)
Sophia acts as secondary tracker; she has Survival 0, but Perception 7, and she rolls her Perception + Survival and Perception + Occult rolls at -4DC(Secret of Gaia 3 + BSM 1) with a +1 dice bonus for non-combat rolls.
That makes her a superior mortal tracker, and she has Sense The Unnatural as well.
She's also healer in the event that its necessary.
And she has Molly's memories from Crown scrying about who these people are, so she knows what to look for.
Lydia in case there's some soul fuckery between life and death. She's the Death specialist.
And because there's probably going to be a fight to get the Hollow Man to let his consolation prizes go, having the secondary tank available might be useful.
She's the only person here we are sure can permakill Outsiders besides Molly.
Harry as a face the junior Wardens know, and because he has recent experience of the Labyrinth.
Since we voted for him to burn all his Essence, his magic aint helping. But he's still Starborn, so if there's a major Outsider here, he might make the difference in defeating it, even though he cant permakill it.
The sorcerer and Weavers as backup who have nonlethal tranqs, and strong backs to help carry people.
Ebenezar McCoy if he's willing to come because he has experience with fighting and banishing Outsiders, and killing evil wizards, or he can stay and provide the Merlin backup and help guard the injured wizards.
Either will do; we dont command him.
Note that I dont expect to kill the Hollow Man here; we will almost certainly have to find his spirit world haven and nuke it to kill him.
But we will need the force to deal with whatever minions he can put together to defend his prizes.
==========
VOTE
[X] Plan Trauma Team
-[X] Propose going back into the Labyrinth to save the six who are lost in it somehow
-[X] Team: Molly + Sophia + Lydia + Harry + 1x Sanctuary Sorcerer + 3x Weavers + Ebenezar McCoy?
-[X] STUNT: You compose yourself before speaking."We're missing half a dozen Wardens." you announce tersely, freezing everyone in the room. "So we need to go back in and get them." Lydia nods firmly, before turning to talk quietly to the shades as you focus your attention. "Mr Merlin." You consider him briefly, then continue 'Those three" you gesture briefly"need to be sedated and restrained for treatment. Im leaving you four people" A pair of sorcerers step forward at Sophia's prompting, accompanied by two Weavers, "to help with site security." You turn to go back the way you came "We have to hurry, I think. See you in a bit."
RATIONALE
We retrieve them now, or we will have to fight and kill them in the future.
And Molly made Carlos a promise about his friends.
Molly is the primary combat tank, and she has Occult as Key.
If finding our way through the Labyrinth is a magical thing, she's primary tracker, rolling 13 dice (Perception 4 + Occult 5 + Without Honor 2 + Stunt 2) at -5DC(All Things Betray 3 + BSM 1 + King and Kingdom 1)
Sophia acts as secondary tracker; she has Survival 0, but Perception 7, and she rolls her Perception + Survival and Perception + Occult rolls at -4DC(Secret of Gaia 3 + BSM 1) with a +1 dice bonus for non-combat rolls.
That makes her a superior mortal tracker, and she has Sense The Unnatural as well.
She's also healer in the event that its necessary.
And she has Molly's memories from Crown scrying about who these people are, so she knows what to look for.
Lydia in case there's some soul fuckery between life and death. She's the Death specialist.
And because there's probably going to be a fight to get the Hollow Man to let his consolation prizes go, having the secondary tank available might be useful.
She's the only person here we are sure can permakill Outsiders besides Molly.
Harry as a face the junior Wardens know, and because he has recent experience of the Labyrinth.
Since we voted for him to burn all his Essence, his magic aint helping. But he's still Starborn, so if there's a major Outsider here, he might make the difference in defeating it, even though he cant permakill it.
The sorcerer and Weavers as backup who have nonlethal tranqs, and strong backs to help carry people.
Ebenezar McCoy if he's willing to come because he has experience with fighting and banishing Outsiders, and killing evil wizards, or he can stay and provide the Merlin backup and help guard the injured wizards.
Either will do; we dont command him.
Note that I dont expect to kill the Hollow Man here; we will almost certainly have to find his spirit world haven and nuke it to kill him.
But we will need the force to deal with whatever minions he can put together to defend his prizes.
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Night guys, see you all in the morning as we try a rescue and a wrap up.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Please avoid walls of text, they are difficult to parse and I may end up missing some things trying to break it up to properly respond. It's why I split up my earlier post in the spoiler box the way I did. Not the fact that I numbered it but the splitting of paragraphs.
Anyway as I did last time it's going in a spoiler box because this is still off topic and it does go on for quite a bit.
This is predominantly Dresden Files with some other stuff mixed in to fill in the blanks. I'm not going to get the quote but DP told us as much before. Unfounded concerns actually are just straight paranoia. I'm talking about characters, factions and variables we know are active in setting not random characters from Exalted lore like the Ebon Dragon. Not similar at all.
This is kind of digressing from the point though. As I said to Azais earlier and to you recently, I'm not concerned about the Reds in a general sense here. I don't think they can threaten the five courts in its entirety or something, which I also made known back then.
However they have enslaved deities as well as whatever method(s) they used to get them into that position in the first place. The portal is in South America which is presumably where they'd be kept (Red Court base of power) and seeing as they're tied to the land it's plausible that they weren't employed in canon onscreen against the WC but were in Quest and could be used here for this.
Both because they're limited to South America and because they had other methods that they were more willing to use which didn't put their divine food supply at risk. Such as the bloodline curse which Harry used to wipe them out.
No I don't know how such characters would be modeled mechanically speaking. My concern has always been that things would happen regarding the portal that would require prime!Molly's attention which is why I keep saying "cause issues for us" rather than "threaten the FFC". As I said before the thing that bothers me the most is when the PC has to drop whatever it is they're doing to address something they themselves brought about. I can't imagine why say the breach getting attacked with enslaved deities wouldn't require our attention.
My issue was making a portal there without answering some of these questions with the Crown so we can do an actual risk assement. Unknown unknowns aren't a non-actionable issue for us because we have the Crown. Red Court foci aren't rare by any means. The problem is we need to use it beforehand. Of course it was time sensitive so that wasn't feasible in the moment but failing that since the danger level couldn't be ascertained and anything beyond a certain point would require Molly's time, which is what I have an issue with, I'd much rather have not.
It's not possible to provide relevant numbers of the enemy units because neither of us are modeling the characters. For that matter I don't know what relevant abilities a subverted pantheon would even have or what relevant abilities Rampires could get by eating them. Building entirely theoretical assessments of enemy dice numbers and abilities on so little data, is not only counterproductive but it's a waste of time.
The only time it maybe isn't is when you have literally no other choice. The solution here was to simply use the Crown, as we have done, to get those critical puzzle pieces and context before making the risk assessment.
That seems entirely reasonable to me.
And yes I'm also saying that running all those numbers as you did while missing such data, while useful for a measure of our own capabilities, may very well have painted an inaccurate picture of the scenario as you lacked parts of the equation.
Generally speaking it's best to do a risk assessment for an action that can't be easily undone and will have an impact on people under your banner after you get the relevant information and variables. That way you can actually factor them in. Unless you don't believe you can afford to (we were at no risk however and the god wasn't going to be a RC asset any longer) then you make a gamble using what you do have. Which is what you did when you started crunching numbers.
We talked about it multiple times before and after then for many pages. Not just that vote. I'm not sure what your trying to say here as Acolyte was saying that we didn't go for it earlier because the thread was scared of tackling the plotline. For that specific vote though IIRC the motive for doing one before the other was, more down time after Boston which came after Vegas, and use our meeting with the junior Wardens to help us with the Peabody plotline next turn to have an easier time of it.
I myself was always advocating for Molly to handle it personally as opposed to what some other people were saying, to hand the Grey Council a list of Crown derived information and leave it at that because they didn't perceive Peabody and co as a credible threat. One valid concern I had expressed was that they may not believe the 18 years old Hell Queen over people that they've fought and bled with for countless years and the fact that we'd want a good cover for such Crown derived information provided.
That's not fear that's sensible caution.
This is why I was fine and voted to handle the plotline this turn when we took Tina out and Peabody and co started doing shit. They'd have to believe us because the guy and his cultist were about to act against them as the jig was up.
And thankfully we didn't just hand them Crown derived information and leave them to it as their plan for being caught was to start a wizard civil war using trusted people.
Anyway as I did last time it's going in a spoiler box because this is still off topic and it does go on for quite a bit.
This is predominantly Dresden Files with some other stuff mixed in to fill in the blanks. I'm not going to get the quote but DP told us as much before. Unfounded concerns actually are just straight paranoia. I'm talking about characters, factions and variables we know are active in setting not random characters from Exalted lore like the Ebon Dragon. Not similar at all.
This is a pretty good point actually. Not that a Denarian needs to have their Coin on them at all times but without the Coin they'd only have the shadow and whatever power they keep. This may actually be accurate.
Things get past the Outer Gates which is why Rashid needs to check over people. Besides Winter and Summer and the Gatekeeper actually know how to fight Outsiders and have specific tools for it. Our people back in the tunnels of Las Vegas were useless for it which is notable since the Reds employ Outsiders. As well as them being so resistant to magic in general. Without having us look into mass producible anti Outsider means we should expect them to do worse under similar circumstances.
This is kind of digressing from the point though. As I said to Azais earlier and to you recently, I'm not concerned about the Reds in a general sense here. I don't think they can threaten the five courts in its entirety or something, which I also made known back then.
However they have enslaved deities as well as whatever method(s) they used to get them into that position in the first place. The portal is in South America which is presumably where they'd be kept (Red Court base of power) and seeing as they're tied to the land it's plausible that they weren't employed in canon onscreen against the WC but were in Quest and could be used here for this.
Both because they're limited to South America and because they had other methods that they were more willing to use which didn't put their divine food supply at risk. Such as the bloodline curse which Harry used to wipe them out.
No I don't know how such characters would be modeled mechanically speaking. My concern has always been that things would happen regarding the portal that would require prime!Molly's attention which is why I keep saying "cause issues for us" rather than "threaten the FFC". As I said before the thing that bothers me the most is when the PC has to drop whatever it is they're doing to address something they themselves brought about. I can't imagine why say the breach getting attacked with enslaved deities wouldn't require our attention.
Or the breach gets stormed with leashed gods and whatever abilities they have at their disposal. I don't believe the ceiling is as high as you think it is to be a concern that warrants Molly's attention. Like, if any of our people get snatched in the defense of the breach are we not going to circle back to get them?
Non-actionable qualitative statements?
My issue was making a portal there without answering some of these questions with the Crown so we can do an actual risk assement. Unknown unknowns aren't a non-actionable issue for us because we have the Crown. Red Court foci aren't rare by any means. The problem is we need to use it beforehand. Of course it was time sensitive so that wasn't feasible in the moment but failing that since the danger level couldn't be ascertained and anything beyond a certain point would require Molly's time, which is what I have an issue with, I'd much rather have not.
It's not possible to provide relevant numbers of the enemy units because neither of us are modeling the characters. For that matter I don't know what relevant abilities a subverted pantheon would even have or what relevant abilities Rampires could get by eating them. Building entirely theoretical assessments of enemy dice numbers and abilities on so little data, is not only counterproductive but it's a waste of time.
The only time it maybe isn't is when you have literally no other choice. The solution here was to simply use the Crown, as we have done, to get those critical puzzle pieces and context before making the risk assessment.
That seems entirely reasonable to me.
And yes I'm also saying that running all those numbers as you did while missing such data, while useful for a measure of our own capabilities, may very well have painted an inaccurate picture of the scenario as you lacked parts of the equation.
Generally speaking it's best to do a risk assessment for an action that can't be easily undone and will have an impact on people under your banner after you get the relevant information and variables. That way you can actually factor them in. Unless you don't believe you can afford to (we were at no risk however and the god wasn't going to be a RC asset any longer) then you make a gamble using what you do have. Which is what you did when you started crunching numbers.
You are literally doing what your accusing me of doing but with our allies. For example you don't know how busy the WC will be after this and the Knights of the Cross are unreliable as seen in Vegas operating on "mysterious ways".
Seemingly pointless snipe.
We talked about it multiple times before and after then for many pages. Not just that vote. I'm not sure what your trying to say here as Acolyte was saying that we didn't go for it earlier because the thread was scared of tackling the plotline. For that specific vote though IIRC the motive for doing one before the other was, more down time after Boston which came after Vegas, and use our meeting with the junior Wardens to help us with the Peabody plotline next turn to have an easier time of it.
I myself was always advocating for Molly to handle it personally as opposed to what some other people were saying, to hand the Grey Council a list of Crown derived information and leave it at that because they didn't perceive Peabody and co as a credible threat. One valid concern I had expressed was that they may not believe the 18 years old Hell Queen over people that they've fought and bled with for countless years and the fact that we'd want a good cover for such Crown derived information provided.
That's not fear that's sensible caution.
This is why I was fine and voted to handle the plotline this turn when we took Tina out and Peabody and co started doing shit. They'd have to believe us because the guy and his cultist were about to act against them as the jig was up.
And thankfully we didn't just hand them Crown derived information and leave them to it as their plan for being caught was to start a wizard civil war using trusted people.
We evac the Labyrinth, then we wreck it.
Send Sophia back to Chicago to come back with a couple barrels, of blessed holy water, blessed oil and potentially communion wafers. Then simply aerosolize the water and oil and have wizards push it all across the Labyrinths physical location.
Call it Blessing The Rains In
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We evac the Labyrinth, then we wreck it.
Send Sophia back to Chicago to come back with a couple barrels, of blessed holy water, blessed oil and potentially communion wafers. Then simply aerosolize the water and oil and have wizards push it all across the Labyrinths physical location.
Call it Blessing The Rains InAfricaParis
We can technically rip up dragon nests of any size for crafting purposes right? Even ridiculously large ones that are the equivalent of globally significant geologic features aren't any more difficult than the smallest of them:
This isn't a dragon nest exactly, but it is a well of supernatural power which is sort of like one.
Think we could just walk off with it?
How did @DragonParadox put it when we asked about eating a fallen angel? The infernal exaltation would try any crime against nature for power at least once? Don't have the quote readily available.
I don't even really care about making it into something, as fun as that would be, as long we get to break Marcus' toys and spite the Outside.
- Location
- washington
So Lydia gathering the souls was for nothing or do you think Lydia can gather the dead souls for our hell after we leave the labyrinth?
Answered near the top of this page; contingent on them being willing to go to Sanctuary we can pull them along to reincarnate, and they probably aren't going to be moving on until at least sunset.
Not anymore; that was in vanilla ExWoD.
Dresden cosmology doesnt allow you to burn out nodes/leylines.
Looting the Labyrinth and melting it down for parts would be hilarious though.
Would pull more aggro than Im comfortable with right now, but would still be hilarious.
Get Tiffany to fix the bodies, then have Lydia buy Necromancy Path of Bones 5 with Arawn as Mentor and just put the souls back in the body. Done.
No magical issues about whether they would transfer to Sanctuary, and no political issues with an Exigent doing shit.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Can you provide a statement from GM that this is how it works or is this your opinion?
QM ruling.
I cant recall the exact place where it was said, so you'll forgive me if I dont find the quote right now.
But its the only reason why we can make magical items that are Rank 4 and 5 without totally consuming a Dragons Nest.
EDIT
I think this was it: