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Noted. I'm done then.
I apologize for not being clearer with it before.

That seem about redundant though given the effect could be replicated by just casting the T3 conjure elemental spell a lot of times. Is the T4 conjure mass just more efficient?
It is faster, yes, and creates them in one big group rather than one by one.

There's a limit to how many Wind Elementals you can summon via repeated castings because Elementals have a lifespan measured in minutes, and because Elementals have very limited capacity to receive orders you can't send them to attack in a group, they will run off one by one as they are created whereas Mass Conjure allows you to send out a wave of Elementals all together.
 
And can the human troops handle advancing in quick fashion in such a formation any better then they can do so in a defensive formation?

We have early threat detection and elementals to help with that. Remember, our elven infantry is also quick.
Yes. Because once they learn to keep time, the second thing they do is keep time in formation.

That's the point of formations, that they are designed to do different things, so when you give an order you will get different performance standards with the same factors. Telling someone to march in a block or wedge formation is easier than telling them to march in braced or shield formation, because that's how they are designed.

But regardless, I'm no longer interested in this. You vote for a plan where Blackout (and by extension Fanriel) handles all the finicky details you don't care for, then you come in nitpicking the minutiae of mine over crap like "what is the specific mechanics of formation marching?" as if Blackout is suddenly not a factor and won't work out the fiddly details like he was planning to in the first place. Or toss them out entirely and use the core concept for something better, if it so pleases him.

Every plan I make is made with the tacit understanding that all of it is disposable at the QM's whim, if they think it can be done better.
 
The problem is that this are not human skirmishers.

They are Goblins. Both very cunning and dangerous, but also at risk of doing something stupid like charging us and costing us tons of casualities for no good reason.

This impredictability is what makes Greenskins so dangerous. Unlike humans, they care a lot less if they live to go back home after the battle. Pushing them do things that humans would never do.
Not really.

If they were stupid, they would have attacked already. Since they didn't, that means they know what they are up against and consider their chances slim at best. They will wait for a weak link and stragglers, not professionals in heavy armour. I'll stick with my own assumption for the time being.
 
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Yes. Because once they learn to keep time, the second thing they do is keep time in formation.

That's the point of formations, that they are designed to do different things, so when you give an order you will get different performance standards with the same factors. Telling someone to march in a block or wedge formation is easier than telling them to march in braced or shield formation, because that's how they are designed.

But regardless, I'm no longer interested in this. You vote for a plan where Blackout (and by extension Fanriel) handles all the finicky details you don't care for, then you come in nitpicking the minutiae of mine over crap like "what is the specific mechanics of formation marching?" as if Blackout is suddenly not a factor and won't work out the fiddly details like he was planning to in the first place. Or toss them out entirely and use the core concept for something better, if it so pleases him.

Every plan I make is made with the tacit understanding that all of it is disposable at the QM's whim, if they think it can be done better.
Dude it's not nitpicking to point out issues with your plan that would make it not work. It's just noting you have flaws in your plan, see your claim that we could just order the Aqshy elementals to do two separate things if we want them to avoid exploding on our own troops.
 
[x] Order the column to wait while you use Hush and Shroud of Invisibility to hunt down the goblins, using Ulgu Elementals to sow terror amongst them while you cut down their leaders.


Another reason to get Enchant Item. Since when rolling for casting exhaustion we roll for our magic stat, then Enchant Item will also help us avoid getting tired from spell casting.
CGAE would also have been great, because I doubt goblins would continue attacking us after we drop a giant made of fire on them.

Even without the crossbowmen we have 20 seaguard, and our pistol, to shoot the goblins with.
The pistol's range is likely too low for it to be significant here.
 
I like the formation with Lightfangs at the rearguard, but I really don't like the idea to use Aqshy elementals. Goblin arrows can make them explode right among our troops.

We should also be careful about using Aqshy elementals in close vicinity of our troops, as those can easily lead to friendly fire. Imagine an Aqshy elemental pursuing a goblin wolf rider, only to be lead around to our formation, where it proceeds to explode.
 
[x] Order the column to wait while you use Hush and Shroud of Invisibility to hunt down the goblins, using Ulgu Elementals to sow terror amongst them while you cut down their leaders.



CGAE would also have been great, because I doubt goblins would continue attacking us after we drop a giant made of fire on them.


The pistol's range is likely too low for it to be significant here.
I doubt a t4 spell like that would work all to well in a situation like this, since the goblins, as light cavalry, could just disengage and then come back after the elemental disappears, while we wouldn't be able to cast a heavy duty spell like that repeatedly every time they came at us.
 
And what if I told you...
that they might be the distraction while we are lead into a Greater Ambush?
On the other opposite end, they might be a way to noisily pin us in place, while Da Big Army gets corralled from the whole mountain range.
Solution: advance, we cannot stop + put the Elves to cover the rearguard that is the most dangerous place for being attacked and for a morale break + cast Silver Compass to make sure we aren't walking blindly in a trap.
I loathe exhausting Fanriel, as too many seem set on doing, but a low-energy spell that does not need constant sustain seems a good idea...
 
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I trust Fanriel's Diplomacy bonus.
What have you done.

You jinxed it, you motherf@#%er!

We are going to roll nat 1s for the next three rolls because of this!

[X] Try to rally the humans and press on, using the Lightfangs and Elementals to fend off the Wolf Riders.
-[X] Take up Van de Rijder's marching song to encourage and show solidarity with the troops
 
[X] Try to rally the humans and press on, using the Lightfangs and Elementals to fend off the Wolf Riders.
-[X] Take up Van de Rijder's marching song to encourage and show solidarity with the troops.
 
[X] Try to rally the humans and press on, using the Lightfangs and Elementals to fend off the Wolf Riders.
-[X] Take up Van de Rijder's marching song to encourage and show solidarity with the troops.
 
[X] Try to rally the humans and press on, using the Lightfangs and Elementals to fend off the Wolf Riders.
-[X] Take up Van de Rijder's marching song to encourage and show solidarity with the troops.
 
With the right marching formation, the humans should be able to hold off their part of any wolf rider attack without reforming. The column will need to stop moving if we need multiple crossbow volleys but people keep their relative positions and just change their facing towards the enemy. It's easy enough to watch the flank and be ready to defend the flank while marching.

Most of those probing attacks won't be directed at the middle of the column - it might feel like a vulnerable flank to us but to the goblins it's charging towards a line of crossbows a couple of ranks deep and backed by ogres while enfiladed by bows from one end and the possibility of a counter charge from the cavalry at the other end. They'll try to pick at the rear which is exposed from three sides and where the defender has to watch behind as they march - much harder - but we have Lightfangs who are good enough to hold there.

An elemental would be useful for hitting back without disarranging the column which would help morale but the main thing Fanriel needs to provide is leadership so everyone stays in formation and keeps marching together.
 
[X] Try to rally the humans and press on, using the Lightfangs and Elementals to fend off the Wolf Riders.
-[X] Take up Van de Rijder's marching song to encourage and show solidarity with the troops.
 
CGAE would also have been great, because I doubt goblins would continue attacking us after we drop a giant made of fire on them.

Next turn we can learn it.

We have already spent 4 actions to learn those spells from the Middenheim Wizards.

With another 3 we can learn CGAE.

The issue of great debate will be what to use the last action for.

If recruitment, having a Familiar or learning healing from the Priests of Isha is more important.

I am partial to either the Familiar or recruitment.

While more healing is always good, we already have some very good healing spells. So we should improve in other areas before that.
 
Elementals 101
Elementals are cool, and able to provide tailored reinforcements on the fly. But how do they work, and what are their limitations?

Wind Elementals, as Fanriel knows them, are creatures of pure and raw magic, composed of the energies of a single Wind of Magic. They are built around a core consisting of a swirling vortex of magic that pulls other magic of the corresponding type from the surrounding area to sustain itself and build its body. This means that casting spells from the other Winds on an Elemental creates Dhar, and they are effectively immune to spells from their own Wind because they simply absorb it into themselves, though Fanriel speculates it may be possible to overcome this with sufficient application of raw power.

Elementals will normally have a lifespan ranging from a few minutes to about a dozen, dependent on how much ambient magic is in the area, though a spellcaster wielding the correct Wind may feed them more magic, sustaining them as long as they maintain the flow of energy.

The primary limitation with the Elementals that Fanriel can summon is one of intelligence: Elementals can currently only be given orders by imprinting them upon their core as they are created, and these cannot be changed afterwards. With Fanriel's current spells, they can only receive a simple, single-part order: you can be reasonably specific in giving them a target, or even give them multiple targets, but the order cannot contain more than one distinct part. They will also attempt to fulfill that order with robotic, suicidal single-mindedness, ignoring everything else around them. If you tell them to do something, they are going to immediately take the shortest path to accomplishing that task without waiting or considering other people that might be in the way. If somebody tries to block them from reaching their destination they would trample over them or smash them aside, but they would not defend themselves if attacked if that wasn't part of their orders.

To give you some examples, "Kill Goblins" is valid. "Kill Goblins and Orcs" is valid. "Kill Goblins and non-lethally subdue Orcs" is invalid, because that is two different orders. "Kill Goblins and then Orcs" is invalid because that is two distinct stages. "Kill Goblins while leaving Orcs alone" is invalid but redundant, because they would leave them alone anyway. "Wait here until I give the signal, then kill Goblins" is invalid. "Kill any non-elf that steps through this door" is valid, though they might end up standing in the doorway and blocking it even for elves because "let elves through this door" is not part of their orders.

Now, there is an upside in that the Elementals will never misinterpret their orders: they're not literal genies, they know what you mean by the words you use to command them. This is because in the process of imbuing them with those commands, you are also granting them the understanding of what those words mean. An Elemental doesn't know what a "Norscan" is, but it knows what you think a Norscan is. This also means that you can give Elementals subjective commands: if you tell them to protect allies, they will protect anyone you recognized as an ally at the moment of casting the spell.

Fanriel currently knows of four tiers of Elementals:

Minor Elementals are small and not meant for combat, but instead act as servants and auxiliaries, fulfilling a variety of support roles. Lesser Elementals range from humanoid-sized to ogre-sized, and are of comparable combat power.

Greater Elementals are the size of monsters like Manticores or Hydras, and can devastate entire groups of enemies or change the outcome of a battle. Incarnate Elementals are titanic beings that warp the landscape around them by their mere presence, able to go toe to toe with elder dragons and change the course of entire wars.

Fanriel currently has access to the following Elementals:

Lesser Hysh Elemental: Blocky golems made of translucent crystal that can shoot out beams of burning light. Extra effective against undead and daemons.

Lesser Chamon Elemental: Bulky humanoids made of metal, slow and awkward to move but immensely durable, making them excellent mobile cover.

Lesser Ghyran Elemental: Vaguely humanoid shapes composed of whatever plantlife is native to the local area. Regenerate very rapidly, making them very difficult to put down.

Lesser Azyr Elemental: Winged humanoid shapes composed of churning cyclone of wind. Capable of flight, but low strength.

Lesser Ulgu Elemental: Humanoid wisps of smoke with long curved talons. Become nigh-invisible in low-light conditions.

Lesser Shyish Elemental: Disembodied, ragged black cloaks with metal chains hanging from them, which can move like tendrils. Feed off of everything they kill to sustain themselves, very easy to mistake for Necromancy.

Lesser Aqshy Elemental: Swirls of flame in the shape of a humanoid upper torso. Weak in combat, but explode like a small mortar shell when slain or as a form of attack.

Lesser Ghur Elemental: Six-legged hybrids of bears, wolves and boars, with rudimentary predatory instincts, allowing for slightly more intelligence and coordination than other Elementals.
 
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You can order Elementals to protect someone, in which case they would follow them, because they cannot protect them without being near them.
Ok, so they are smart enough to perform subtasks vital to the performance of their primary task, they just have a very narrowly focused primary task.

If we ordered an elemental to kill someone would it be smart enough to fight it's way through anyone blocking them from reaching their target? Not fight to kill, but using force to get past them (and maybe kill in the process).
 
Ok, so they are smart enough to perform subtasks vital to the performance of their primary task, they just have a very narrowly focused primary task.

If we ordered an elemental to kill someone would it be smart enough to fight it's way through anyone blocking them from reaching their target?
Not so much "fight" as "smash its way through without caring for how much damage it causes to friend or foe".

Did "whirlwind" of Azyr Elemental can "intercept" arrows?
You haven't tested it, but probably to some degree.
 
I wonder how difficult it would be to learn to implement an elemental into an item like we can with living things in order to create an enchanted item. Implementing items with elementals to create a magic item is definitely a thing, Sunfang was created via Caledor Dragontamer implementing a, probably incarnate, fire elemental into a sword for example. @Blackout would learning how to implement a minor or lesser elemental into an item be much more difficult then learning battle magic?
 
"Kill any non-elf that steps through this door" is valid
So, would "kill any goblin that gets within a particular range of this group" be valid? Because that sounds like it would give us like 75% of the value of "protect the group" while allowing us to set them to a little bit more distance.

Downside I suppose would be that it has no understanding to not bowl straight through the group if the goblins actually got stuck in.
 
So, would "kill any goblin that gets within a particular range of this group" be valid? Because that sounds like it would give us like 75% of the value of "protect the group" while allowing us to set them to a little bit more distance.

Downside I suppose would be that it has no understanding to not bowl straight through the group if the goblins actually got stuck in.
Aqshy and Shyish elementals are particularly problematic in this regard. Shyish because they'll make everyone think there's a necromancer in the area. Aqshy because they could cause an enormous amount of friendly fire by exploding if they get close to our group.
 
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