Yes, but he was in Apocalyptic mode, he did that the moment you went Shintai.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- Crossover Fantasy
Yes, but he was in Apocalyptic mode, he did that the moment you went Shintai.
Yeah, ok, that's fair. We'll need to ask the question later, while applying Occult Excellency and ideally other means to understand the answer better. I'll keep it marked down.
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out.
Other denarians, and other True Magi are ones that I expect to try and use this opportunity.
While a Denarian making the roll is fair play if anything is, I think that everyone and their mother making the willpower roll against insanity is a sign that the rules for the sight aren't well balanced.
Yeah the crazy warlock is crazy, but so far we've seen people walk off the sight's side effects in every way that matters for the purposes of the game. The sight is an amazing power, but its downsides don't line up with how it's treated in canon.
Here's a thread on how the DFRPG handled it*. Under those rules, which are also a bit lax compared to canon, the wizard basically provokes a mental attack against themselves. They roll their lore skill against intensity of the vision to understand what's happening and then again to defend themselves against an attack using discipline. On failure they take damage and aren't allowed to close their sight that turn.
Even at difficulty 9 the bar being 1 success on a willpower roll is low for what the sight is.
*Sorry about the lack of a better source, couldn't find a clear listing of the rules anywhere else.
Yeah the crazy warlock is crazy, but so far we've seen people walk off the sight's side effects in every way that matters for the purposes of the game. The sight is an amazing power, but its downsides don't line up with how it's treated in canon.
Here's a thread on how the DFRPG handled it*. Under those rules, which are also a bit lax compared to canon, the wizard basically provokes a mental attack against themselves. They roll their lore skill against intensity of the vision to understand what's happening and then again to defend themselves against an attack using discipline. On failure they take damage and aren't allowed to close their sight that turn.
Even at difficulty 9 the bar being 1 success on a willpower roll is low for what the sight is.
*Sorry about the lack of a better source, couldn't find a clear listing of the rules anywhere else.
I will admit even at difficulty nine the fact there's no Threshold at all and it's just a single success is kind of strange because with no threshold it means Dresden could look at an archangel and be fine he has enough willpower and if he's doing it for the right reasons he'll have even more dice to counteract the effects.
If we take the rules that they've been applied so far that means Wizards actually can just look at any and everything they want to as long as they are readied spiritually to understand them which I don't know how true that is but seems kind of strange considering the sight is supposed to be able to kill them if it's unfortunately used.
- Location
- Germany
On the average the Sight doesn't need to be particularly dangerous, if it can inflict lasting mental damage.
Assuming Wizards have no "Brain be well"-spell, which I think they don't in DF, then any issues inflicted by the Sight might be permanent, or at least long-lasting.
So everything you roll for insanity due to using the Sight, you roll for your life, and it takes just one snake eyes in the several centuries a Wizard can live to fuck it all up.
More to the point, he was an elder wizard with preparation. With all sorts of contingent effects available.
For just one example, Gift of Prana, is a Life 2/Prime 3 rote from Euthanatos Revised
Cast as an extended roll, six successes gives you a buffer pool of 12HLs which can be anchored to the target for up to a year.
Which would give him an effective pool of 19HLs.
Thats not counting what over time regen his tenant grants him.
As a general rule wizards to not want derangements, there is very little magic can to to fix them and some of them can be crippling.
Anyway Good night guys, see you tomorrow in Paris or under it.
Anyway Good night guys, see you tomorrow in Paris or under it.
The warlock was so crazy it was more mechanically relevant to the sight than two millennia of learning at the feet of a fallen angel but could still function.
In canon any time anyone opens their sight it's treated as taking their lives in their hands, the worse something is the more dangerous it is to do. Especially if you aren't braced for it.
Dresden tries it with the Naagoloshi and only escapes because he was allowed to, then spent the next day all but foaming at the mouth while he tried to unscramble his brain. The one time he thinks about looking at a mook angel's sidearm he's stopped because it'd destroy him to see.
Wizards don't have a brain be well spell and the consequences are long term, but they're also very immediate and nobody is immune to them.
Really nobody should be sneaking a quick peek at anything more magical than a particularly whimsical rock and then continuing to fight in high stakes combat in my opinion. It's not a combat time ability.
In any case a single pass/fail willpower check doesn't accurately reflect what's supposed to be going on.
For a version of function defined as 'could be manipulated by an ancient evil'. They do not let that one out in public around mortals.
- Location
- washington
In fairness definitely came prepared but like this was a rush job since their taking advantage of the chaos we started.
He's one of the relative handful of Denarians who had never died since he picked up his Coin almost two thousand years ago.
Only other people on that list I am certain of are Anduriel/Nicodemus and Imariel/Polonessa and Saluriel/Cassius.
He is VERY good at staying alive.
This is not the sort of person who would have done a rush job here without confidence in his exit strategy.
Thats just my two cents.
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This is also where I point out that leaving Tiffany behind leaves the professional healer behind.
Sophia can heal combat damage, but she doesnt cure shit like poisons.
- Location
- washington
Nah I'm just saying you know this wasn't planned too far ahead. I'm sure he had exit strategy and such just you know a few hours head start is not that much prep time the stuff he had to take account and had on hand is likely what he used. He just happens to have a lot of things he can take into account and on hand unlike most with just a few hours prep.
Edit: I am getting constantly annoyed how much leeway the fallen have though on stuff they didn't have in canon. Especially because in quest the angels are not getting any way to combat their likely by canon rulebreaking bullshit.
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BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Bringing the specced healer to the ambush is probably a good idea. Even if the conflict ends up having concluded before we get there it could save some lives.
Thinking on it, if we don't bring them along would they stay while their leader, the Merlin, is in trouble? I know Tiffany would but not sure about the Council Wizards. Leaving them here maybe pointless.
I'm reminded of when Carlos went with us even when we told him otherwise and old wizards are stubborn.
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
-[X]Bring the war party: 2m
Thinking on it, if we don't bring them along would they stay while their leader, the Merlin, is in trouble? I know Tiffany would but not sure about the Council Wizards. Leaving them here maybe pointless.
I'm reminded of when Carlos went with us even when we told him otherwise and old wizards are stubborn.
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
-[X]Bring the war party: 2m
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1) Like I said, old archwizard.
I have no idea what kind of resources he has, but there's very little he could pull out that would surprise me.
He's had a lot of time and experience for Just In Case contingencies.
2) They are Bad Guys.
They cheat whenever they can get away with it, and ruthlessly attempt to exploit the loopholes of mortal will otherwise.
Thing is, Heaven also operates on a global scale, and picks their interventions as well.
You just wont necessarily see it at that time.
I mean, when Lasciel caused Harry to commit suicide, Uriel didnt take counter-action for at least six months.
Im guessing there's been another spike of activities at the Gates, so we're not seeing the Gatekeeper.
And I would not be surprised if some similar diversion is holding the attention of the other Senior Council members as well.
When compared to the "head explodes" of looking at a mook angel's pistol or being stuck meditating on your horror as you scramble for some amount of sanity it does. Frankly I'm skeptical of the idea that trauma inherently makes you resistant to further exposure without actually breaking people in a functionally relevant way.
It's like burning your hand to charcoal making your dex check to scoop up molten metal with your fingers easier. That really seems like it should be a cascading failure mode instead of resistance training to me.
Even at its lightest the consequences have always been shown to be immediate, disruptive, and an ongoing issue that takes actual effort to manage.
I'm not saying it should be absolutely impossible for anyone to do, but when everyone we encounter is capable of using the sight while engaged in complex magical combat without missing a beat that seems like a sign something is wrong.
Also, wasn't this the Sight wizard?
He's the guy our magical support followed the ritual back to, and he was apparently sane enough to act as a subtle messenger from the halls. I'd think that wizards of all people would know would notice the signs of someone going violently insane from sight abuse. Which would make for a poor smuggler.
If he can pretend to be normal well enough to fool experts and handle sensitive tasks then I'd say he's plenty functional.
Either that or the council saw no problem with a raving madman wandering into and out of their fortress at odd hours of the night carrying random odds and ends.
— Gates to the Hidden Halls, 2 am—
Wardens: " Hey Antonio, heading home?"
Verdi: *Twitches and jumps like a meth head while nervously twisting his hands* "Yes Yes, must get home with my papers before the shadows start bleeding eyes into my soup again"
Wardens: "Well we wouldn't want to keep you then, have a nice morning"
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Or more succinctly, being an unspeakable mind bending horror to behold has been a problem for Molly more than anyone actually looking at her. Almost literally "Ha Ha, by flaying my brain with your blasphemous visage you've fallen right into my trap".
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Thats another reason to bring wizards with you.
Wizards can cast veils without Molly having to spend Essence to use ATP
That guy was not the watcher, he was the messenger so Peabody can get word out and generally coordinate. Note that there was no mechanism for him to look at the whole city with his Sight up there.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Seriously though the longer I think about it the more unadvisable leaving them here seems tactically speaking.
Carlos went with us anyway to South America even when we tried telling him not to because not doing so went against an intimacy he has with Molly both mechanically and in the traditional sense. Morgan is a really good friend of the Merlin who is either getting or got ambushed so leaving Merlin to deal with it even while there isn't anything immediately urgent here is probably not something he'll agree with and maybe go against an intimacy of his. He has the most authority of the Council members in our party as well.
I'm guessing people don't want to hear it but if we leave him there's a pretty good chance they're going to end up heading for Paris using the Ways rather than stay here.
Carlos went with us anyway to South America even when we tried telling him not to because not doing so went against an intimacy he has with Molly both mechanically and in the traditional sense. Morgan is a really good friend of the Merlin who is either getting or got ambushed so leaving Merlin to deal with it even while there isn't anything immediately urgent here is probably not something he'll agree with and maybe go against an intimacy of his. He has the most authority of the Council members in our party as well.
I'm guessing people don't want to hear it but if we leave him there's a pretty good chance they're going to end up heading for Paris using the Ways rather than stay here.
Leaving aside the probability of it, the practicality of such a move is better than taking them with us.
Then why did the trace lead right back to him? We didn't see any ritual repeating equipment up there either so there's no particular reason for that point to draw attention than any other.
Also, nothing on the rest of it? Cause the current model seems way too easy to pass and has no gradient. Stuff like Harry's encounter with the Naagoloshi doesn't seem like a perfect success or an absolute failure given how he was effected, but not permanently wounded or rendered fully helpless.
BoredMan
Dinosaurs came in many flavors. Like potato chips.
Can you please elaborate? If they leave anyway then we loose out on any benefit of them being here. I don't see why Morgan would stay either.
If we bring them along we get a healer to save lives and extra units of authority and wizards from the Council on the scene.
The trace didnt lead back to him, it led back to the celltower.
He just happened to be there when we got there; it could have been anchored to the tower, or there could have been someone else there that peaced out before Lady M got there.
Lady M botched and he was the narrative consequence.
Going through Sanctuary costs essence. Since I expect us to need to use the Crown to find the people we are looking for in Paris, that's a bit of a concern.
Also, in general, I feel that removing forces from Hidden Halls would be a mistake right now. White Council has a lot of enemies, and they are very weak right now. An attack of opportunity is very possible. Other denarians, red and black court, other True Magi all could attack.
Aren't there casualties here? I am fairly sure there are.