Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
[X] Plan Grandslam
-[X] The best deffense is a good offense, attack the Fallen and let the Wardens see to themselves (Melee Excelency)
--[X] Immediately proceed to Shintai. You need to know where you stand in comparison to a Fallen.
-[X]Molly: Melee Excellency 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Veridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Green Sun Nimbus Flare at first opportunity
-[X] Molly: Wind-Born Stride 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Multiple action to transform and attack on same turn.
-[X]Tiffany: Pre-Buff on way here: Flesh 3: Personal Stamina to 10
-[X]Tiffany: Flesh 3: Buff Olivia's Dexterity
-[X]Tiffany: Light 1: flash
-[X]Olivia: Open fire
-[X]Wizards: Countermagic primary
-[X] Stunt: Your voice takes on a dismissive quality. "An old monster that deals in traitors coin thinks themselves entitled to the lives, the minds, the possessions of those that came after, what a surprise." A shell of molten brass and broken idols unfolds across your body. Your voice takes on an echo "Wizards peel away his magic as much as you are able. Olivia go nuts. Fallen defend yourself or don't." As the masonry under your feet cracks as push off toward monster in human skin with the force of a cyclone.
Essentially Yog's vote just a little bit more detail. I don't quite understand the Assumption of how we're going to get to Paris in a timely enough manner to at all intervene with the situation considering it they left a good while ago.
Also not really understanding what threat could be bigger than a Denarian wizard who decided infiltrating wizard Fortress was a good idea and has already shown that he's got some pretty fucking disgusting magic under his sleeves.
Edit: As well as being part of the conspiracy in the first place he is literally a peer of the 'Hollow Man' with a fallen angel giving direct aid and is allowed by the Laws of Reciprocity to be in Reality.
-[X] The best deffense is a good offense, attack the Fallen and let the Wardens see to themselves (Melee Excelency)
--[X] Immediately proceed to Shintai. You need to know where you stand in comparison to a Fallen.
-[X]Molly: Melee Excellency 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Veridian Legend Exoskeleton 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Green Sun Nimbus Flare at first opportunity
-[X] Molly: Wind-Born Stride 1 Essence
-[X] Molly: Multiple action to transform and attack on same turn.
-[X]Tiffany: Pre-Buff on way here: Flesh 3: Personal Stamina to 10
-[X]Tiffany: Flesh 3: Buff Olivia's Dexterity
-[X]Tiffany: Light 1: flash
-[X]Olivia: Open fire
-[X]Wizards: Countermagic primary
-[X] Stunt: Your voice takes on a dismissive quality. "An old monster that deals in traitors coin thinks themselves entitled to the lives, the minds, the possessions of those that came after, what a surprise." A shell of molten brass and broken idols unfolds across your body. Your voice takes on an echo "Wizards peel away his magic as much as you are able. Olivia go nuts. Fallen defend yourself or don't." As the masonry under your feet cracks as push off toward monster in human skin with the force of a cyclone.
Essentially Yog's vote just a little bit more detail. I don't quite understand the Assumption of how we're going to get to Paris in a timely enough manner to at all intervene with the situation considering it they left a good while ago.
Also not really understanding what threat could be bigger than a Denarian wizard who decided infiltrating wizard Fortress was a good idea and has already shown that he's got some pretty fucking disgusting magic under his sleeves.
Edit: As well as being part of the conspiracy in the first place he is literally a peer of the 'Hollow Man' with a fallen angel giving direct aid and is allowed by the Laws of Reciprocity to be in Reality.
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- Location
- Germany
We didn't do anything to Lasciel.
She left a shard of herself in a position where it could rebel against her without our help.
If she hadn't put a part of herself in a "you'll either die or be re-absorbed"-situation, TIffany wouldn't exist.
It's not something we can force on the Fallen.
- Location
- Canada
"Dad, if she didn't want unspeakable things committed on her soul-shard, she shouldn't have left it so helpless and vulnerable! Why, look at how she left it, practically begging for someone to come along and violate the laws of God and men!"
"Molly, I'm pretty sure that doesn't change the fact that Uriel has called me about you more often than he has about literally anyone else apart from the other Fallen Angels."
- Location
- Germany
Okay, maybe we did impossible things to the soulshard.
But my key point remains, if Lash hadn't wanted to rebel against her maker the instant she saw a chance to do so, we couldn't have done more than exorcise her from Harry.
Tiffany being a Being in her own right is totally on her, we just provided the tools.
But my key point remains, if Lash hadn't wanted to rebel against her maker the instant she saw a chance to do so, we couldn't have done more than exorcise her from Harry.
Tiffany being a Being in her own right is totally on her, we just provided the tools.
Against a mook, losing 3 dice of a dicepool thats usually below 6 dice is utterly devastating.
Against a boss character, or a miniboss with double digit dice pools, the kind of people that Molly requires shintai against, removing 3 dice is often only going to rise to the level of an inconvenience.
Even a standard vampire running blood buffs can mitigate this; it will burn through a lot of its blood pool and be ravenously hungry afterwards, but its within its capabilities.
=====
See, thats monofocusing on wizards, and vanilla wizards at that. Not wizards with demonic investments like the Wu-Keng or couple Blessings from some friendly entity or a bunch of fetishes. This is only the second time that we have had to deal with a hostile wizard as opposition, with the first one being Sandra Marling. Lots of other hostiles out there.
Thats strictly speaking untrue.
We dont see many wizards fight in any detail, so we dont know who can be said to mess with the Entropy Sphere in canon and who doesnt.
Thats not the way talismans and the like work.
Notice whatshisface Madrigal hitting Molly with a talisman of vampire magic during the Raith coup. A lot of them are just activate, no rolls necessary at least not on the part of the hostile.
M20 wizards do a LOT of prior preparation.
See shit like Peabody's reflexive dodge rote as just the tip of the iceberg of the sort of things a prepared mage can do.
I did the math previously.
Castle Rock, which is situated immediately above the central portion of the Hidden Halls is less than two miles from the Atlantic Ocean on a map. Thats less than two minutes for Molly moving at normal sprint speed of 32 yards per second from the Hidden Halls to the Atlantic shoreline.
Once she reaches the ocean, Rendered Villain Dispersal to the English Channel shoreline in one combat turn.
The Seine River empties into the English Channel, but runs through Paris. Thats maybe 15 seconds from the shores of Edinburgh, Scotland to the heart of Paris, accounting for interruptions.
She's in Paris in roughly three minutes after she leaves.
And thats the slow option.
The fast option is: Ask Tiffany to contact Lydia telepathically by way of their Pact, which doesnt have a distance limit.
Ask her to tell Sophia or one of Molly's troops to hum or play a song for Molly to home in on. Or do it herself.
Step into Sanctuary. Step out at Sophia's location.
Total duration: <10 seconds.
=====
What could be more of a threat than Lucian of Cephaloedium, host of the Fallen Angel Thorned Namshiel?
Marcus Drusus, The Hollow Seer, The Hollow Man. Ascended not!Nephandus elder wizard thing that can cast spells/grant Investments potent enough to contest Molly's Exalted perception charms.
Two thousand year old follower of the Outer Dark. The guy with notvampire outsider wizard things as his tools to lend out.
Consider exactly how much power it requires to be accounted as the Master of an Arete 8 elder wizard like Peabody, and to lend him notvampire wizard-things wielding Discipline 7 powers in addition to magic. And unlike Denarians, Outsider-worshipping spellcasters can draw a lot more of their sponsor's power without running into any restrictions.
=====
Point of correction:
They are both on the board of the Thule Society, but calling them peers is a lot like looking at the members of the Board of Directors of Pentex and calling Benjamin Rushing and Harold Zettler peers.
We would have to argue that Kattrin is a peer of this guy as well, which is as far as I can tell, not really true.
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The highlighted is just flatly untrue.
Vampires when they try to soak attacks from us which means -3 armor (Iron mountain & Fortitude negation) at all times anytime they try to hit us minus 3 to the hit roll anytime they try to avoid being hit by us minus 3 to the Dodge, Block or Parry roll.
Every attack roll they make at minus 3 dice or three extra difficulty (I don't actually know how it's going to manifest.) Same for every damage roll which considering our monstrous soak can easily reduce an attack down to no damage after soak.
We are pretty strong removing three Dice from pretty much any opponent if it's on their soak, their damage or their ability to defend against us will quickly lead to them eating a fuck ton of damage pretty much every time they get within sword range and we're definitely fast enough to get within sword range.
This is before the fact that vampires can only soak aggravated damage with their particular disciplines which if they don't have enough of that discipline they are literally trying to soak... nothing they're dying they're eating aggravated damage and they are just dying.
I'm certain there's like a thousand other interactions both in and kind of around combat where -3 dice or an increase difficulty of three would be insanely dangerous for even our most powerful opponents mostly because dice pools for a lot of supernatural abilities (Arete, Glamour, Gnosis, Rage, Willpower, True Faith, P'o, Dharma, Shih arts (mortal ability + Attributes) only go up to 10 anyway.
It's really not demonic Investments either require rolls of their own (Mage 20th Book of the Fallen pg 124 Hellfire) that are separate from enlightenment or just reduce difficulty of magic casting rolls which still having dice reduced means that you're just less likely to hit the thresholds you need to make a spell worth anything.
It also drastically affects beings that just have limited amounts of resources that they have to spend to get an effect to work any role that involves gnosis, rage, Glamours, blood points being spent is more resources essentially spent trying to negate a free effect on our part.
This is before things like P'o humanity and rage to resist us or things were doing oh also things like rotschrek rolls.
Fetishes also require rolls usually whether those be gnosis rolls, Essence or Enlightenment rolls.
We've had a lot of talk in this Quest about how not powerful mortal enchantments can be and directly trying to place a mortal Talisman against a charm of the chosen is at best going to trigger an Essence roll off at worst outright destroy the talisman.
They would be placing the magic of this Talisman against essentially an exalted charm and hoping it doesn't destroy the talisman which is what I meant though that may be a complete supposition so I'll leave it there but that is what I meant.
This statement I do agree with but we have yet to see a mage that is actually prepared for a real fight. In both Mage the Ascension and Dresden Files they don't tend to carry around a fuck ton of magical effects.
it's for a completely different reasons in both settings but it seems to hold true nonetheless now someone like the hollow man might have a lot of spells like that but in general long-lasting spells don't seem to be a thing for Dresden Files Wizards.
Peabody knew we were coming and still only had law breaking magic and a rote that would help him Dodge and that's it.
60 Rounds of combat
3. 5 rounds of combat
They left before we even started this Trek to get to Lucien. If they got into a fight with the hollow man it happened already because world of Darkness combat is insanely fast and also deeply deadly so that fight is already over if they met him at all because he can't really exist in reality.
They left via the paths before we even got to our first altercation with those enthralled Wizards. They've either gotten to Paris or have already finished their fight with the not man and have gotten to Paris because world of Darkness combat is insanely quick and we've been walking for at least a couple of minutes.
So have they unless through some Divine miracle they have put off fighting anyone even though they have no control over when and how someone is going to start an altercation with them the fights are already done maybe they have gotten to Merlin or they haven't they either stopped Anastasia or they haven't.
All of this to say they didn't enter stasis the second they left our sight they had a known place they were going and the ways are noted for being particularly fast.
He is not actually allowed within the walls of reality because of the laws of reciprocity so if you're expecting to find him in Paris that is deeply unlikely and I'll leave it there I won't say impossible but everything we've seen and heard in character and so far seems to just he is still in his never never bubble looking out through his puppets eyes.
Also I'm really not sure what's up with this but they were literally just vampires black vampires in specific I don't understand why you're saying not vampire.
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I believe I do. It's more complex than you are presenting. See below:
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
| 3 | 0.8 | 1.6 | 2.4 | 3.2 | 4 | 4.8 | 5.6 | 6.4 | 7.2 |
| 4 | 0.7 | 1.4 | 2.1 | 2.8 | 3.5 | 4.2 | 4.9 | 5.6 | 6.3 |
| 5 | 0.6 | 1.2 | 1.8 | 2.4 | 3 | 3.6 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 5.4 |
| 6 | 0.5 | 1 | 1.5 | 2 | 2.5 | 3 | 3.5 | 4 | 4.5 |
| 7 | 0.4 | 0.8 | 1.2 | 1.6 | 2 | 2.4 | 2.8 | 3.2 | 3.6 |
| 8 | 0.3 | 0.6 | 0.9 | 1.2 | 1.5 | 1.8 | 2.1 | 2.4 | 2.7 |
| 9 | 0.2 | 0.4 | 0.6 | 0.8 | 1 | 1.2 | 1.4 | 1.6 | 1.8 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
| 3 | 0.9 | 1.8 | 2.7 | 3.6 | 4.5 | 5.4 | 6.3 | 7.2 | 8.1 |
| 4 | 0.8 | 1.6 | 2.4 | 3.2 | 4 | 4.8 | 5.6 | 6.4 | 7.2 |
| 5 | 0.7 | 1.4 | 2.1 | 2.8 | 3.5 | 4.2 | 4.9 | 5.6 | 6.3 |
| 6 | 0.6 | 1.2 | 1.8 | 2.4 | 3 | 3.6 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 5.4 |
| 7 | 0.5 | 1 | 1.5 | 2 | 2.5 | 3 | 3.5 | 4 | 4.5 |
| 8 | 0.4 | 0.8 | 1.2 | 1.6 | 2 | 2.4 | 2.8 | 3.2 | 3.6 |
| 9 | 0.3 | 0.6 | 0.9 | 1.2 | 1.5 | 1.8 | 2.1 | 2.4 | 2.7 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
| 3 | 0.7 | 1.4 | 2.1 | 2.8 | 3.5 | 4.2 | 4.9 | 5.6 | 6.3 |
| 4 | 0.6 | 1.2 | 1.8 | 2.4 | 3 | 3.6 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 5.4 |
| 5 | 0.5 | 1 | 1.5 | 2 | 2.5 | 3 | 3.5 | 4 | 4.5 |
| 6 | 0.4 | 0.8 | 1.2 | 1.6 | 2 | 2.4 | 2.8 | 3.2 | 3.6 |
| 7 | 0.3 | 0.6 | 0.9 | 1.2 | 1.5 | 1.8 | 2.1 | 2.4 | 2.7 |
| 8 | 0.2 | 0.4 | 0.6 | 0.8 | 1 | 1.2 | 1.4 | 1.6 | 1.8 |
| 9 | 0.1 | 0.2 | 0.3 | 0.4 | 0.5 | 0.6 | 0.7 | 0.8 | 0.9 |
If either both 10s count as 2 successes and 1s count as -1 success, or neither of those things apply, Av= N*(1.1-DC/10);
If 10s counts as 2 successes, but 1s don't count as -1 success, Av=N*(1.2-DC/10);
If 1s count as -1 success, but 10s only count as 1 success, Av=N*(1-DC/10);
Here N - number of dice, DC - difficulty rating, Av - average number of successes.
Now, we need to solve inequality (N-3)*(A-DC/10) vs. N*(A-(DC+3)/10), where A is 1, 1.1, or 1.2.
This inequality solves as follows:
(N-3)*(A-DC/10) ? N*(A-(DC+3)/10)
N*(A-DC/10)-3*(A-DC/10) ? N*(A-DC/10)-3*N/10
-3*(A-DC/10) ? -3*N/10
3*N/10-3*(A-DC/10) ? 0
N/10-(A-DC/10) ? 0
N+DC ? 10A
If ? resolves as >, then adding difficulty is more efficient in nerfing enemies. If ? resolves as <, then removing dice is more efficient. This expression holds true for DC<=7, N>=4. For N<=3, DC<=7 removing dice is always more efficient. For N>=4, DC>=8, adding difficulty is more efficient, assuming difficulty limit is not in effect (i.e. we are not fighting exalts or similar beings). For N<=3, DC>=8, both are equally effective, assuming difficulty limit is not in effect.
In general this means that when either the dice pool is low, or the difficulty is low, removing dice is more effective. When the dice pool is high and/or the difficulty is high, adding difficulty is likely more effective.
@DragonParadox could I get a ruling? What does SSC signature do? The charm text says "all actions taken to oppose her suffer a –3 penalty". What does this mean? I see four possibilities:
1) Remove 3 dice from dicepool before rolling. So, if someone has 10 dice, they only roll 7. If they only had 3 dice (for example Tiffany rolling Faith), they automatically fail
2) Remove 3 successes from successes rolled. So, if someone rolled 3 successes, they fail. Botches will need to be discussed separately.
3) Reduce roll results by 3. So, if someone rolled [9, 1, 4, 7], the results are instead processed as [6, -2, 1, 4], where negative results are likely counted as botches
4) The difficulty is increased by 3.
So, explain again to me why none of the elder wizards and archmagi are rocking as much as a -1DC adjuster? My guess is that this is not something easily or at all done with mortal magic. Adding DC as curses? Yes. That can be done. Reducing those? Seems much rarer. And only done for specific roll, not for everything. Not constantly going. Your asserting that path of fortune casually negates SSC just doesn't work.
@DragonParadox could you weigh in on this? How common is Path of Fortune, how easy is it for someone to get a -3 DC amulet or enchantment going? Either universal or for a specific roll? So far it seems that our courts are more advanced in this area than Earth. Possibly much more advanced.
Your basic assumptions are faulty, which is why people are arguing about this. Because:
1) Path of Fortune is not free. A large number of enemies will not have it, at least to the level you are arguing. Those that have it, will have to expend resources to apply it, because they'll have to be constantly applying it to all rolls. Soak, Willpower, Arete, etc. included.
2) We don't have access to Path of Fortune right now. Our clones do not have access to Path of Fortune right now.
3) SSC is not a free action. It also likely doesn't stack. If our clones are able to use it (arguable), they are unable to dodge, block, etc. They are only able to use it against one enemy at a time. In this form, having our clones using SSC is inferior to having SSC signature effect going on. Because SSC signature applies to every enemy on the scene. SSC is targeted. So, in any enemy with 4 (later 5) or more enemies on the scene (which is often the case), SSC signature is more efficient from the action economy point of view that you espouse. In one-on-one duels you might be right. In large scale brawls with minions present? You are wrong.
What the hell? No.
- SSC's Signature causes a +3 DC, that obviously does not stack with itself
- Path of Fortune is quite rare on Earth, more common in Sanctuary where they use implants to enhance the predictions. Namshiel would not use path magic to adjust his odds though, he would use some kind of Time and Prime Route, or he might have the metaphysical weight to attempt to resist the effect, though if he does that it would probably take the full effort of the Fallen itself, leaving the wizard without his backup (the way he re-rolls Arete and takes the highest is very much not normal)
1. Could you elaborate on stacking with itself? SSC causes the target to lose dice, not adjusts DC:
Or has this been changed to DC adjustment for the purpose of the quest? If so, sorry to bother you. Both are valid, if a bit different mechanics.
2. Ok, kinda like I expected. So, we probably can expect no mass production of universal scene-long -3 DC adjusters for our enemies in most combat situations.
[X] Plan Grandslam
[X] The best deffense is a good offense, attack the Fallen and let the Wardens see to themselves (Melee Excelency)
-[X] Immediately proceed to Shintai. You need to know where you stand in comparison to a Fallen.
Essentially my reasoning is this: this is as good of a chance to fight a denarian as we are going to get. We know that they are our mortal enemies. We know that we will be fighting them. We need to understand where we stand against them in terms of combat capabilities. Tiffany thought IC that we can be reasonably expected to defeat combat oriented ones. Depending on the quester, the estimation goes anywhere from "we defeat and eat them no problem" to "they roll all over us". We need to do an evaluation, and this is a very good opportunity to do so.
[X] The best deffense is a good offense, attack the Fallen and let the Wardens see to themselves (Melee Excelency)
-[X] Immediately proceed to Shintai. You need to know where you stand in comparison to a Fallen.
Essentially my reasoning is this: this is as good of a chance to fight a denarian as we are going to get. We know that they are our mortal enemies. We know that we will be fighting them. We need to understand where we stand against them in terms of combat capabilities. Tiffany thought IC that we can be reasonably expected to defeat combat oriented ones. Depending on the quester, the estimation goes anywhere from "we defeat and eat them no problem" to "they roll all over us". We need to do an evaluation, and this is a very good opportunity to do so.
Oh yeah you are right it takes successes away, for some reason I thought it was DC, then for the sake of consistency the Signature takes away 3 dice, does not stack.
Oh, this is actually great, because in this case we can further adjust odds with a splendor for +2 DC for the enemy action in the area... Yeah, this is good.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well if we go Shintai with SSC's Signature that will also hinder our enemies in Paris so that should improve the Merlin's chances. Still think that it doesn't really make sense to use Shintai from this fight it is giving up our first round and we are at full health.
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If not shintai, then green sun nimbus flare. Ideally both, really. @uju32 why no GSNF in your plan?
So, anyway, I wanted to continue doing some maths (I relax this way after long and exhausting bureaucratic work). Below you'll find probability tables for achieving a number of successes with N dice at X DX, where 10s counts as 2 successes, 1s subtract a success
Bolded cells are number of dice and DC ratings where it's more effective to remove 3 dice than it is to increase DC by 3, assuming no DC cap is in place (i.e. you can get DC 11 and higher). One can see that a) dice removal works better at lower number of dice and lower DC ratings, and b) dice removal works better and better with increasing amounts of successes. I.e. it's better to increase DC to prevent the enemy from having 1 success, but it's better to reduce the number of dice to prevent the enemy from having 5 and more successes.
For game situations I expect dice removal (SSC) to work better against soak, arete, Faith and at least some willpower rolls, and DC adjustment to work better against attribute+ability rolls. Of course, if DC cap is in place (ie we are dealing with an enemy exalt, for example), dice removal becomes much more efficient, especially for charm effect opposition.
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3 | 80 | 82 | 93 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 99 | 100 | 100 |
| 4 | 70 | 79 | 88 | 92 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 99 | 99 |
| 5 | 60 | 74 | 83 | 88 | 92 | 94 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 98 |
| 6 | 50 | 67 | 76 | 83 | 87 | 90 | 92 | 94 | 95 | 96 |
| 7 | 40 | 58 | 68 | 75 | 80 | 84 | 86 | 89 | 91 | 92 |
| 8 | 30 | 47 | 58 | 65 | 70 | 74 | 78 | 80 | 83 | 85 |
| 9 | 20 | 34 | 44 | 51 | 57 | 61 | 65 | 68 | 70 | 72 |
| 10 | 10 | 19 | 27 | 33 | 38 | 43 | 47 | 50 | 53 | 55 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3 | 10 | 66 | 75 | 88 | 92 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 99 |
| 4 | 10 | 53 | 69 | 80 | 87 | 92 | 94 | 96 | 97 | 98 |
| 5 | 10 | 42 | 60 | 72 | 80 | 86 | 90 | 93 | 95 | 96 |
| 6 | 10 | 33 | 50 | 62 | 71 | 78 | 83 | 86 | 89 | 92 |
| 7 | 10 | 26 | 40 | 51 | 60 | 67 | 73 | 77 | 81 | 84 |
| 8 | 10 | 21 | 31 | 40 | 48 | 54 | 60 | 65 | 68 | 72 |
| 9 | 10 | 18 | 25 | 31 | 36 | 41 | 45 | 49 | 53 | 56 |
| 10 | 10 | 17 | 22 | 26 | 29 | 31 | 33 | 35 | 37 | 39 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3 | 0 | 15 | 56 | 69 | 83 | 89 | 93 | 96 | 97 | 98 |
| 4 | 0 | 13 | 42 | 60 | 73 | 82 | 88 | 92 | 94 | 96 |
| 5 | 0 | 11 | 32 | 49 | 62 | 72 | 79 | 84 | 89 | 92 |
| 6 | 0 | 9 | 24 | 38 | 50 | 60 | 68 | 75 | 80 | 84 |
| 7 | 0 | 7 | 17 | 28 | 38 | 47 | 55 | 61 | 67 | 72 |
| 8 | 0 | 5 | 12 | 20 | 27 | 34 | 41 | 46 | 52 | 57 |
| 9 | 0 | 3 | 7 | 12 | 17 | 22 | 27 | 31 | 35 | 39 |
| 10 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 11 | 14 | 17 | 19 | 22 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3 | 0 | 1 | 17 | 49 | 64 | 78 | 85 | 91 | 94 | 96 |
| 4 | 0 | 1 | 13 | 35 | 52 | 66 | 76 | 83 | 88 | 92 |
| 5 | 0 | 1 | 10 | 25 | 40 | 53 | 64 | 72 | 79 | 84 |
| 6 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 18 | 29 | 40 | 50 | 59 | 66 | 72 |
| 7 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 12 | 20 | 28 | 36 | 44 | 51 | 57 |
| 8 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 8 | 13 | 18 | 24 | 30 | 35 | 41 |
| 9 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 11 | 15 | 18 | 22 | 25 |
| 10 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 6 | 8 | 9 | 11 | 13 | 14 |
| DC\Number of dice | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 3 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18 | 43 | 59 | 73 | 82 | 88 | 92 |
| 4 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 13 | 30 | 46 | 59 | 70 | 78 | 84 |
| 5 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 9 | 20 | 33 | 45 | 56 | 65 | 73 |
| 6 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 13 | 22 | 32 | 41 | 50 | 58 |
| 7 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 8 | 14 | 21 | 28 | 35 | 41 |
| 8 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 5 | 8 | 13 | 17 | 22 | 26 |
| 9 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 5 | 7 | 9 | 12 | 15 |
| 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 6 |
For game situations I expect dice removal (SSC) to work better against soak, arete, Faith and at least some willpower rolls, and DC adjustment to work better against attribute+ability rolls. Of course, if DC cap is in place (ie we are dealing with an enemy exalt, for example), dice removal becomes much more efficient, especially for charm effect opposition.
Other answers hopefully later when I have some more time.
Namshiel canonically knows and teaches tactical teleportation, so Im expecting him and his demonhost to book it when things get a little too fucking hot to handle, and we do not currently have any Charms that might contest that.
I want to keep a surprise for our next encounter that he does not have time or intelligence to prepare for.
That, by the way, is the other reason why I dont want to activate shintai or too many charms under the eyes of a Fallen Angel.
I dont want to give the magic nerd Fallen Angel and his magic nerd host information to go brainstorm on how to make it harder to activate shintai and Charms in the future.
It probably wasnt coincidence that Iku Turso saw VLE the first time, and then figured out how to turn it off during our second encounter.
Because Im expecting him to escape. Just like Iku-Turso did the first time.
Namshiel canonically knows and teaches tactical teleportation, so Im expecting him and his demonhost to book it when things get a little too fucking hot to handle, and we do not currently have any Charms that might contest that.
I want to keep a surprise for our next encounter that he does not have time or intelligence to prepare for.
That, by the way, is the other reason why I dont want to activate shintai or too many charms under the eyes of a Fallen Angel.
I dont want to give the magic nerd Fallen Angel and his magic nerd host information to go brainstorm on how to make it harder to activate shintai and Charms in the future.
It probably wasnt coincidence that Iku Turso saw VLE the first time, and then figured out how to turn it off during our second encounter.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I feel that this is a bit defeatist as acting with this in mind does increase his chances of escape but this is a really good answer. One of the Warlocks from earlier tried teleporting out already so we know that the wards do not care and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a way around them. A version of teleportation that doesn't utilize the NeverNever for example.
The form of teleportation we saw in canon did not involve the NeverNever.
So Im reasonably sure he gets away.
Just like Ascher and Ursiel survived running face first into the countermeasures of Hades' kingdom.
Might seem defeatist, but I'd characterize it as more realist.
Namshiel obviously told him stuff, and your first encounter with an enemy who knows more about you/people like you than you know about them specifically is seldom going to end up in unless they actually choose to fight to the death.
And there's nothing here for him to fight to the death over.
[X] Plan Wizardkiller
Why are you completely disregarding the wizards and their Headquarters enchantments? Preventing enemy from escaping is basically what human wizards are best at, i.e. magic circles. Several senior council wizards should be able to hold him in the area.
EDIT:
No, this is defeatism by definition, whether it's realistic or not. It's forgoing any attempt to struggle on the assumption that we are guaranteed to lose.
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