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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
Welp, they managed to pull the Merlin, who specializes in Warding and Battlefield Control, out of his Warded sanctum and isolated from his support. Even weakened as she is, Luccio is still the Warden Captain, and with the advantage of numbers and surprise and possibly even location she could very well kill Arthur.

It's the endgame now. The conspiracy is cleaned out of the Hidden Halls, with just the Denarian left, but everyone that's left is going for Arthur.
 
I'm more concerned about what the Denarian is up to down in the Halls than I am the Merlin's continued well-being. Arthur might still survive without our interference, he's powerful and wily, but the current situation in the Halls is not promising without our intervention.
 
I think… it's time to call in Maeve for a proper outsider hunt while we race to save the Merlin, unless someone has a better idea?
I'd say calling the Archive might be helpful but idk how fast she can move on this
 
I don't really want to have to spend our fairy count favor here and that is what the vote is looking like.

Are all these wizards really so helpless without us?

[X]What is the nature of the current White Council deals of Never-never transportation with the Fey? Do you think that you could ask them to hold up Luccio?
 
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fictionfan said:
I don't really want to have to spend our fairy count favor here and that is what the vote is looking like.

Are all these wizards really so helpless without us?

[X]What is the nature of the current White Council deals of Never-never transportation with the Fey? Do you think that you could ask them to hold up Luccio?
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Oh they are going after him on their own. The question is just what you do?

Anyway, it is midnight over here. Good night guys.
 
Yog said:
Making a god, unless stuff goes terribly wrong, is not an opposed action. See making Tiffany. It was handled in a couple of updates. It is also not an action that spends resources. It taps Last Station dragon nest for power, but we aren't using it for anything else. Spirits don't require splendor crafting reagents. Unless you are planning to spend 3+ AP on any action, there's no competition or spending of limited resources here.

As to the shard of gold, relying entirely on meta-argument and hopium is not something I want to test.

We are over extended. Which is why we need to secure the homefront and other commitments before we can start acting again. Right now Chicago is bulnerable. Las Vegas is vulnerable. Portal is vulnerable. We need to improve security of all those things. Washington and internet in general are being actively subverted against us. We need to shut that down fast.
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Chicago isn't as vulnerable, it's not as much of a risk. I strongly doubt your assessment on how difficult it is, and the resources are better placed elsewhere.

The shard of gold isn't metagaming or Hopium. Simple obscurity could not possibly secure the shard after it went off once and exploded strongly enough to add a wobble to Earth's orbit. The thing was vulnerable because of what the Dragon did, which is now no longer in play.

Not being able to see all the security is not the same as it not existing. The most vulnerable it's ever been was when the Outsiders, who absolutely know exactly what and where it was because the damn thing was used against them the same way in prehistoric Egypt, by proxy had complete control of the city for months.

If Nemesis had the power to get the shard on its own then it could at any time prior to our arrival in town ordered Sandra and the Dragon to sack the temple and make a play for both exaltations.

I think it's far more likely we'll show up and make a mess, because our presence makes it vulnerable or at minimum draws more attention to it.

At which point we'll have to deal with the red war, the council exploding, our hell portal coming under assault and a dozen other issues while wrangling an exalt.

It's a bad plan in general and particularly poorly timed at this juncture. Our actions have consequences and what we've chosen recently is going to require our focus for a bit to finish.
 
DragonParadox said:
Oh they are going after him on their own. The question is just what you do?

Anyway, it is midnight over here. Good night guys.
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[X]Go to Luccio's and the other wardens rooms find something of there's and keep casting Shadow Spite Curse on them all in succession. That should cause them some delays.

Or I guess if Molly can use the wizard ways though the Never-Never she can run super fast.
 
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fictionfan said:
[X]Go to Luccio's and the other wardens rooms find something of there's and keep casting Shadow Spite Curse on them all in succession. That should cause them some delays.

Or I guess if Molly can use the wizard ways though the Never-Never she can run super fast.
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No, we have a chance to waste time and essence by having small duels along the way. It's better to just keep cursing all of Arthur's enemies and leaving the mages go chase them, even if out of play and outnumbered, he is the leader of the White Council and won't be easy to kill, especially since he's an Archmage specialized in guarding things.

That way we can focus on the Fallen on the walls.

[X]Go to Luccio's and the other wardens rooms find something of there's and keep casting Shadow Spite Curse on them all in succession. That should cause them some delays.
 
uju32 said:
Time. Political buy-in.
Resources/Reagents NA. Sorcerous know-how. Legal research about the current rules for spirits allowed to be active in the real world; we'd almost certainly have to talk to Uriel.

You are proposing we build a city god for the third biggest city in the United States, the only global superpower currently existing, and a city thats a major magical nexus in its own right.
And that every other major magical actor will sit on the sidelines.

Consider what it took to make the Archive.
Consider the death toll it takes to invoke a Darkhallow to elevate an existing archmage into a god. Consider what it took Voormas to become the Grand Harvester of Souls.

You havent even begun to grok the scale of the mega-project that should be involved in making a major god from scratch.
This is not a 1 or 2 AP project.
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You are, as nearly always, inventing things wholecloth to justify us being unable to do stuff. We don't require reagents beyond dragon nest's power. We don't even need any political buy in, as we can do this by ourselves. We have the sorcerous know how, i.e. exalted craft charm. And I actually asked about how much AP it would cost:
Yog said:
... Guys, you do know that we are, like, contractually obligated to raise the Spirit of Chicago now, right? I mean, there's just no other choice here. None at all. We have to do it. Let's see... Molly, plus Lydia, plus members of the Order (as many as we can get), in the Dragon Nest, with full essence expenditure at Halloween. Sounds perfect. Would it be 1 AP or more to organize the raising? @DragonParadox ?
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DragonParadox said:
If you want to raise something as large as a City God you are going to need the crafting charm, but otherwise yes.
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Everything you said is wrong. As always, you are drastically undercharacterizing our capabilities.
BronzeTongue said:
Chicago isn't as vulnerable, it's not as much of a risk. I strongly doubt your assessment on how difficult it is, and the resources are better placed elsewhere.

The shard of gold isn't metagaming or Hopium. Simple obscurity could not possibly secure the shard after it went off once and exploded strongly enough to add a wobble to Earth's orbit. The thing was vulnerable because of what the Dragon did, which is now no longer in play.

Not being able to see all the security is not the same as it not existing. The most vulnerable it's ever been was when the Outsiders, who absolutely know exactly what and where it was because the damn thing was used against them the same way in prehistoric Egypt, by proxy had complete control of the city for months.

If Nemesis had the power to get the shard on its own then it could at any time prior to our arrival in town ordered Sandra and the Dragon to sack the temple and make a play for both exaltations.

I think it's far more likely we'll show up and make a mess, because our presence makes it vulnerable or at minimum draws more attention to it.

At which point we'll have to deal with the red war, the council exploding, our hell portal coming under assault and a dozen other issues while wrangling an exalt.

It's a bad plan in general and particularly poorly timed at this juncture. Our actions have consequences and what we've chosen recently is going to require our focus for a bit to finish.
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What resources? As far as we know, there's no material component for god making.

Security through obscurity is a foolish concept where it comes to the situation in Las Vegas. That ship has sailed. There are already enemy forces that know exactly where the shard is, and almost certainly know what it is - Black Court elder who orchestrated its theft attempt comes to mind. We know that outsider-aligned forces talk to each other.

"Leaving the shard unsecured / secured by mortal only and not involved ourselves with its security" is a foolish proposition that is bound to have us facing an abyssal, if not two (because I am almost certain that Black Court is capable of tarnishing Solar Shard black).
 
Anyway, the vote. We pretty much have to split the party again - fight denarian, and save the wizards.

Molly to fight the denarian - she's the only one fundamentally immune to possession here (well, Tiffany is too, but she's not so combat specked). Lydia to lead the hunt for Arthur and Luccio, I guess. Other than that, I am not sure.
 
Yog said:
What resources? As far as we know, there's no material component for god making.

Security through obscurity is a foolish concept where it comes to the situation in Las Vegas. That ship has sailed. There are already enemy forces that know exactly where the shard is, and almost certainly know what it is - Black Court elder who orchestrated its theft attempt comes to mind. We know that outsider-aligned forces talk to each other.

"Leaving the shard unsecured / secured by mortal only and not involved ourselves with its security" is a foolish proposition that is bound to have us facing an abyssal, if not two (because I am almost certain that Black Court is capable of tarnishing Solar Shard black).
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You're treating not knowing the cost as it not having one and not knowing the security system as it not existing.

Here is the claim I'm making about Vegas: the shard is almost certainly not dependent on obscurity or low level mortal craft for security. In fact, it should have a very complete security system which we only saw a brief vulnerability in. Even then we don't know exactly what might have happened if the god bot had died.

I am claiming this because the Outside knows what an exalt is. They even know that this shard is present near this doorway, because it has been for a very long time. It was part of the original contingency that went off when the door was still in Egypt.

Nemesis arranged the Vegas plot. It sent an archmage into town and successfully suborned the ruler of the local supernatural world. We know that Sandra performed some serious manipulations on the local community and was well aware of the actors involved.

I don't find the idea that the Outside would miss the existence of the exact thing that stopped them last time credible, especially when it's labeled with an Egyptian sun god. More than that, the robot isn't new, they should recognize it specifically from the same event.

If the Outside believed it even remotely accessible then it would have been foolish to leave it alone all this time, or to target Silk of all people over the Ra worshippers at the peak of their power.

The only way that obscurity could possibly be the real defense is if everyone involved is outrageously, fractally, can't-believe-they-haven't-choked-on-their-own-spit-and-died, stupid. In which case it should still work as long as we don't spell it out for them.
 
DragonParadox said:
Sorcerer's Snare​
18th of February 2007 A.D.
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COMMENTARY
Everybody is the hero of their own story.
Always worth keeping that in mind. And the bad guys will routinely lie to their own recruits whenever it suits their purposes.
Mind control is only one tool in the hands of our opposition; so is lying, and blackmail, entrapment and general manipulation.

These are all routine cult techniques.
The wizards might want to institute regular refresher classes for recognizing that sort of thing early.

=====
I think its been comprehensively demonstrated that Peabody is the (human)leader of this conspiracy.
Just in case there was any lingering doubt.
The Kumori tie-in here was rather neat to be honest. Nice work @DragonParadox

=====
Note that Luccio has been sent to kill Langtry.
Its a reminder that the bad guys have Upgrades(TM) and those assumptions about an inability to use magic while mind-controlled do not necessarily apply.

I mean, all you have to do is whammy a wizard to believe that the person they are shooting at is a non-human impersonator.
And they'll use magic on them just fine. Straight up Ghost In The Shell-style brainhacking.

====
Langtry is obviously not outright mindcontrolled, if only because how difficult that sort of thing is against elder wizards, but he has still been influenced to take unwise decisions; all those years of touching Peabody-supplied magical ink have obviously had an effect.

Under no other normal circumstances would he leave Edinburgh for Paris without discussing this shit with Ancient Mai who was right there. Its so mind-bogglingly stupid that you know he's been nudged even without the confirmation that it was Peabody who convinced him to go to Paris.

And where in the Thousand Hells is Aleron LaFortier? Nobody has even mentioned him.



I find it unlikely that they are going to intercept them on the Ways.
It takes half an hour to go from Chicago to Edinburgh by the Ways according to Turn Coat; I suspect that Edinburgh to Paris is significantly faster, even if you take an indirect route. The Merlin's party has a head start too. No body is going to bother trying.

Whats going to happen is that Luccio is going to head to Paris to ambush him there. So will the junior Wardens.


Paris will have Outsiders. I guarantee it. Maybe even Reds.

First time someone tried to kill McCoy to our knowledge, they sent both Rampire Bloodpacks and lesser Outsiders to Chicago, and that was McCoy who didnt have a bodyguard. Langtry has a guard, so you can expect that the attackers will prep accordingly. Man is running into a buzzsaw.

Whoever we send to Paris has to keep that in mind.



Split up obviously.

Lydia and Sophia goes to Paris with a strike team and wizard support.
Molly stays in Edinburgh, and RVDs her way to Paris when she's done with Namshiel.
McCoy goes to Paris; there needs to be a Senior Council member to call off any misinformed wizards.
Mai stays in the War Room to coordinate and update any late arrivals.

Available wizards are redistributed accordingly.
Harry probably should go to Paris because I expect Outsiders there, and he is one of the few wizards who I think can kill lesser Outsiders IIRC Vegas correctly.

Im not sure if Sophia can kill Outsiders; I think so, even if not permanently, but we dont have confirmation.
Our troops cannot kill Outsiders as per Vegas.

At the moment, Im thinking Molly is going to have to spend 2m to fall back to Sanctuary and pull out two squads/20 troops of reinforcements. Leave one squad to help Wizard Mai guard the War Room.
Send a second squad to Paris with Lydia/Sophia/McCoy, and take the third squad to go hunt Namshiel.
 
Yog said:
You are, as nearly always, inventing things wholecloth to justify us being unable to do stuff. We don't require reagents beyond dragon nest's power. We don't even need any political buy in, as we can do this by ourselves. We have the sorcerous know how, i.e. exalted craft charm. And I actually asked about how much AP it would cost:
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Yog said:
Everything you said is wrong. As always, you are drastically undercharacterizing our capabilities.
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We have literally never made a major god before, or seen one made, and yet you think that all you need is a Dragons Nest.
If it was that simple, the Egyptian guy would have left fucking pantheons up and down the Nile Valley and the Mediterranean coast instead of a single malfunctioning robot

You need the Exalted Crafting charm to make a major god. Nowhere did the QM say it was the only thing you needed.

And if you honestly think you are going to make a major god in Chicago, mirror and earthside anchor of Chicago-Over-Chicago and home of the Stone Table, without a metric fuckton of political buy-in, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
 
BronzeTongue said:
You're treating not knowing the cost as it not having one and not knowing the security system as it not existing.
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We know there's no cost, as we have the system by which it works. And you don't get to tell me "we don't have resources" when you don't know which, if any at all, resources, we'll need. That's dishonest.

The system of security for Chicago is obviously not up to the task, as we have seen on multiple occasions.
BronzeTongue said:
Here is the claim I'm making about Vegas: the shard is almost certainly not dependent on obscurity or low level mortal craft for security. In fact, it should have a very complete security system which we only saw a brief vulnerability in. Even then we don't know exactly what might have happened if the god bot had died.

I am claiming this because the Outside knows what an exalt is. They even know that this shard is present near this doorway, because it has been for a very long time. It was part of the original contingency that went off when the door was still in Egypt.

Nemesis arranged the Vegas plot. It sent an archmage into town and successfully suborned the ruler of the local supernatural world. We know that Sandra performed some serious manipulations on the local community and was well aware of the actors involved.

I don't find the idea that the Outside would miss the existence of the exact thing that stopped them last time credible, especially when it's labeled with an Egyptian sun god. More than that, the robot isn't new, they should recognize it specifically from the same event.

If the Outside believed it even remotely accessible then it would have been foolish to leave it alone all this time, or to target Silk of all people over the Ra worshippers at the peak of their power.

The only way that obscurity could possibly be the real defense is if everyone involved is outrageously, fractally, can't-believe-they-haven't-choked-on-their-own-spit-and-died, stupid. In which case it should still work as long as we don't spell it out for them.
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The exaltation relied almost entirely on exalted-crafted security through stealth and obscurity. And even then, Black Court came way too close to getting it. Again, you don't claim "obviously there are some other security measures, for which we have no evidence, but which much logically exist". No, that's not how it works when it comes to security of supernatural weapons of mass destruction that are exaltations.
uju32 said:
And if you honestly think you are going to make a major god in Chicago, mirror and earthside anchor of Chicago-Over-Chicago and home of the Stone Table, without a metric fuckton of political buy-in, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
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You can't seel me a bridge in Brooklyn, I am in Russia. And yes, we can make a major god, and it's up to other parties to bribe us not to do so, if they are able to discover what we are doing before we do it.
uju32 said:
We have literally never made a major god before, or seen one made, and yet you think that all you need is a Dragons Nest.
If it was that simple, the Egyptian guy would have left fucking pantheons up and down the Nile Valley and the Mediterranean coast instead of a single malfunctioning robot
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Only Infernals can craft emanations. Which are the arcana types modeled as gods. This is one thing that we are qualitatively better at than solars.
 
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Yog said:
You can't seel me a bridge in Brooklyn, I am in Russia. And yes, we can make a major god, and it's up to other parties to bribe us not to do so, if they are able to discover what we are doing before we do it.
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I will ship it to you. Only 19.99 shipping and handling
You just have to deposit the price in my account :V


Your Exalted Supremacy underwear is showing again.
Someone will have you nuked while you try. Or simply foul the ritual up and keep on doing so till you get the goddamn picture. Or take the opportunity to do shit elsewhere that you have to respond to.

This is not free real estate, and other people have legitimate concerns about your doing magical megaprojects on the same world that they live upon and have interests in.
We would have much the same reaction if someone else started remodelling the Vegas seal, or tried to renovate around Demonreach.

Yog said:
Only Infernals can craft emanations. Which are the arcana types modeled as gods.
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1)Gods are not arcana.
Which is a good fucking thing, because that means that no random dick can do a driveby and blow up the keystone of your phantasm and destroy the artificial spirit in question anytime you arent specifically babysitting it.

2) Solars, Lunars, Abyssals, Sidereals, DBs and Heart-Eaters can ALL make ephemera.
Phantasms are artificially-constructed spirits, anchored to a physical keystone. The most
common sort of phantasms, ephemera, are mostly designed to operate in one of the otherworlds,
with limited capability to physically influence the mortal world. Others are emanations, with
greater agency to act in material reality but still not natively part of it.
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Different sorts of Exalted possess the wherewithal to spark the animation of different sorts of
Arcana with their Essence. Specifically:
Dragon-Blooded may create golems and ephemera. Their golems are always of strongly
elemental character, as are their phantasms.
Solar Exalted may create any sort of Arcana save for emanations and horrors.
Lunar Exalted are able to create golems and ephemera.
Sidereal Exalted possess the capacity to forge golems and ephemera.
Abyssal Exalted can craft ephemera, and may build simulacra out of dead flesh. They are the
only variety of Chosen capable of forging horrors.
Infernal Exalted are able to build golems, design simulacra, and are the only Exalted who may
craft emanations.
Heart-Eaters can build ephemera and simulacra
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Phantasms are built through sorcerous ritual rather than physical handicrafts. Weaving an
epehemera or emanation is an extended (Charisma or Intelligence) + Occult roll against
difficulty 8, made at two-week intervals, requiring a total of (Arcana's rating x 4) successes. A
botch at any point ruins the entire project, renders the keystone unsuitable, and necessitates that a
new spirit must be conceived and designed
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Phantasms have the simplest requirements, needing only a keystone to anchor them in the world. This can be nearly any small object of great emotional or financial value. If the keystone is of
great emotional significance, that significance need not necessarily be to the Exalt making the
phantasm. In the case of 5-dot Phantasms, the keystone needs to be a magical item of some kind,such as a Fetish or Prodigy, rated at 2 dots or above.
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Phantasm (Ephemera): Ephemera can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the phantasm's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, and must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a scene. It is always aware when
its keystone is being moved or disturbed, and may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to
its keystone's location.

If the phantasm's master speaks while within the keystone's presence, the Arcana hears her
words wherever it may be. If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to the
keystone's location without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is
also destroyed. If the ephemera is slain, it may reform a year and a day later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 28 days.
Ephemera are always unmistakably phantasmal beings. Even when manifested physically, the
edges of their body seem to roil and waver like fog, or to possess other overtly "spirit-like" or
"ghostly" traits
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Phantasm (Emanation): Emanations can soak lethal damage, but not aggravated.
Select either the Umbra or the Underworld. This is the emanation's native home. It may roam
freely in its native realm, where it enjoys the natural ability to converse with the other native
denizens and to navigate without undue difficulty (in the Umbra, this amounts to having the
Charm Airt Sense, while in the Underworld it amounts to having several dots of Argos). The
phantasm may manifest in the physical world only while within one hundred yards of its
keystone, or within ten yards of its master. It must pay one Willpower to remain manifest for a
scene. It may pay one Willpower to immediately teleport to its master's or keystone's location.

If the phantasm's master the emanation's name, the Arcana hears her words wherever it may be.
If she commands the ephemera to attend her, it may teleport to her master's location and
manifest without paying any Willpower. If the keystone is destroyed, the phantasm is also
destroyed. If the emanation is slain, it may reform one hundred years later within its keystone.
Each point of Essence fed into the keystone by its master quickens this recovery by 10 years.
If the emanation's master has learned The King and the Kingdom: The Thousand and First Hell,
the phantasm may treat its master's Hell as a keystone.
Ephemera are always otherworldly, disturbing beings with demonic features of some sort that
cannot be mistaken for as human.
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They are identical except for the fact that ephemera get demonic flavored spirits, while everyone else gets ghostly/spiritual flavored spirits.
 
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uju32 said:
1)Gods are not arcana.
Which is a good fucking thing, so that no random dick can blow up the keystone of your phantasm and destroy the artificial spirit in question.
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So you noticed that tag Ephemera. You know that thing every Spirit, God or otherwise in world of darkness is called. On some level you're just making a complete jumping assumption that a god gets to not be ephemera. Every city God In World of darkness is ephemera every Spirit In World of darkness is ephemera they have sub classifications but they're all ephemera I really don't get what this point you're trying to make is.

Grandfather Thunder, the Great Wolf, Zeus, Thor, pattern Spiders, Mary Jane all of them ephemera what is your point?
 
Degorium said:
So you noticed that tag Ephemera. You know that thing every Spirit, God or otherwise in world of darkness is called. On some level you're just making a complete jumping assumption that a god gets to not be ephemera. Every city God In World of darkness is ephemera every Spirit In World of darkness is ephemera they have sub classifications but they're all ephemera I really don't get what this point you're trying to make is.

Grandfather Thunder, the Great Wolf, Zeus, Thor, pattern Spiders, Mary Jane all of them ephemera what is your point?
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Just to be clear:
This is inaccurate. Ephemera in WoD is what the Dresdenverse would call ectoplasm.
Its umbral matter, spirit-stuff.
It is not used to refer to sapient people, whether gods or spirits or ghosts.

You can find the relevant citation in Umbra Revised p13.
 
VOTE
[X]Plan Divided Command
-[X]Sanctuary Reinforcements: 2x squads/20x troops + supplies
-[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 5: Soak Agg Damage to Harry: 1 Faith
-[X] Split up again
--[X]Team Namshiel: Molly + Tiffany + Olivia + Carlos + Carlos Wardens + Sanctuary Team 1
--[X]Team Paris: Lydia + Sophia + McCoy + Dresden + Morgan + Team Morgan + Sanctuary Team 2
--[X]Team Mai/War Room: Ancient Mai + Wizards + Sanctuary Team 3


STATUS
Molly
12/18m of Essence (13 - Excellency 1)
15/15 Health
7/9 WP

Lydia
Full Health
8/8 Essence (0/3 Essence Jewel)

Olivia
3/5 Mana
3/3 Demon Chi
Full Health

Tiffany
Full Health
2/3 Faith


Tiffany boosts her own Perception to 10 with Lore of Flesh 3, and then uses her senses to find and track Namshiel.
She has a range of 3 miles, can see through illusions, and Demons are sensitive to other demons/Demons/angels.
Olivia covers her back.

The main force goes to Paris.
Molly joins them as soon as she's done in Edinburgh. One minute from the Hidden Halls to the Atlantic, then she hits the French coastline of the English Channel and goes up the Seine River into Paris.

Lydia is the other person here who can definitely kill Outsiders, potentially permanently. So she goes to Paris to tank for McCoy.
Sophia goes where the largest number of mind-controlled wizards will be, where her services will be needed. And as both Outsider-killer backup and healer and tracker.

Harry can kill some Outsiders, so he goes there as well.
 
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uju32 said:
Just to be clear:
This is inaccurate. Ephemera in WoD is what the Dresdenverse would call ectoplasm.
Its umbral matter, spirit-stuff.
It is not used to refer to sapient people, whether gods or spirits or ghosts.

You can find the relevant citation in Umbra Revised p13.
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That isn't true or rather it is only partially true it is very specifically used in the context of god/spirit flesh/Being/lifeform without any shadow a doubt.
Though two things can also be true it does also refer to umbral matter.
Mage 20th Anniversary pg 475 said:
Becoming Ephemera
To start with, a mage who steps sideways must use a Spirit 3 Effect to step sideways, employ Spirit 4 to open a gateway in the Gauntlet, or travel with someone else who opens that gateway for him. Certain powerful spirits can bring a mortal over to their side as well. Whichever way, the traveler becomes ephemera: the material of the spirit worlds. He might feel like flesh and blood, but he has become like the spirits around him.
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Mage 20th Anniversary pg 489 said:
Spirit Feats
Although they might occasionally assume human form, spirits aren't mortal beings. As creatures of ephemera, they handle certain things differently than other characters do.
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Sometimes there are complete modifiers like ghostly or demonic or anything else like the type of ephemera you become but ephemera seems to be the agreed upon term for Spirit flesh.
Mage 20th Anniversary pg 478 said:
An Agama Sojourn essentially divides the mage's soul between the worlds of the living and the dead, keeping her body just alive enough for a return trip to material reality.

Although there's no silver cord connecting the two aspects of the traveler's being (as there is in astral travel), the journeying character simultaneously becomes ghostly ephemera in the Shadowlands and a clinically dead (though not fully dead) body in the material world.
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Mage 20th Anniversary pg 521-522 said:
••• Pierce Gauntlet/ Step Sideways/ Rouse & Lull Spirit
Now the mage can cross over, transmuting his living tissue to ephemera. He may carry a few material possessions, although transmuting them as well raises both the difficulty of the roll and the number of successes required for the trip.
(Normal clothing and items raise both factors by +1; bulky clothing and items raise them by +2.) That traveler must step sideways on his own; bringing large items or other people
across demands a higher Spirit Rank. Meanwhile, a combined Spirit 3/ Mind 2 Effect allows the mage to read Resonance, Synergy, and other spiritual energies (Essence, a spirit's place within a hierarchy, etc.).
At this Rank, a mortal mage can also harm an Umbral entity as if he was using Life 3 against that entity. While Spirit 2 allows the mage to touch that entity, Spirit 3 lets him actually damage its ephemeral Pattern's integrity the way that Life 3 damages a physical creature's form.
By combining this Rank with Matter 3 and Prime 2, the mage can also create short-lived objects from ephemera; such creations must be constructed as if they were material things, and they fade away at the end of the Effect's duration.
Finally, this Rank helps the mage rouse the slumbering spirits within objects or places, or else put active spirits to sleep.
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Degorium said:
That isn't true or rather it is only partially true it is very specifically used in the context of god/spirit flesh/Being/lifeform without any shadow a doubt.
Though two things can also be true it does also refer to umbral matter.


Sometimes there are complete modifiers like ghostly or demonic or anything else like the type of ephemera you become but ephemera seems to be the agreed upon term for Spirit flesh.
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In your quotes from:
The material of the spirit worlds. Creatures of ephemera. Transmuting your living tissue to ephemera.
Create short-lived objects from ephemera.

Respectfully, I dont know if you're a native English speaker, and if some of the phrasing is tripping you up.
If Im making a wrong assumption, I apologize.
But its there in more or less black and white.
 
uju32 said:
In your quotes from:
The material of the spirit worlds. Creatures of ephemera. Transmuting your living tissue to ephemera.
Create short-lived objects from ephemera.

Respectfully, I dont know if you're a native English speaker, and if some of the phrasing is tripping you up.
If Im making a wrong assumption, I apologize.
But its there in more or less black and white.
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So did you very specifically ignore the bolded sections in pretty much every single one of them or do you not care. Never mind where the spirit traits section specifically calls Spirits beings of ephemera.

The Spirit sphere very specifically calls out that it can be used to affect the ephemeral pattern of a being like the life pattern and becoming ephemera makes you a spirit even if you still feel like flesh and blood.

Aguma sojourn very specifically makes you ghostly ephemera and a dead body. I really don't know how to make it any more obvious what I'm getting at two things can be true. Ephemera does directly reference the spiritual matter of the Umbra it also references the beings in the Umbra. Very specifically their flesh and essence.
 
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