- Pronouns
- Him/He
Should probably scan the thing down to the bolts before shipping it to home, to make sure it's not some weird kind off Trojan horse.
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
- Pronouns
- she/her
Got a starship obsolete enough to be sacrificed?
"Damn, that weird jump bubble interaction happened again. Something very wrong with your ship's drive if it's doing that even deactivated. Some weird jumpspace radiation on your hull, maybe."
Not really a good idea.
Reading the update, my first thought was 'oh, the Hermosans want to manufacture an incident'. But then I wondered, why the need to keep up appearances? In a dictatorship public opinion doesn't matter much and there's no interstellar community with its public opinion either.
- Location
- Here, there, everywhere.
To be honest let's not forget that we have massive political capital given to us by this incident. Five members of the HSWS died due to the actions of the HCP Glaive's Captain and them setting forward the events leading to the Passionate Witch getting caught in their bubble.
If anything this is the most powerful bargaining chip we have in terms of political capital given we have the entire crew of the HCP Glaive in our possession.
If anything this is the most powerful bargaining chip we have in terms of political capital given we have the entire crew of the HCP Glaive in our possession.
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Five members.
Yes, I think we should just tell them we're keeping the wreck.
Political capital with whom?
@4WheelSword, thanks for the details about those systems.
Political capital with whom?
@4WheelSword, thanks for the details about those systems.
- Location
- Here, there, everywhere.
Hermosa for one, since we can use it as an angle in any negotiations with them. Home itself secondly since these aggressive maneuvers can allow us to bargain for more funding to expand the fleet further. Outlying states thirdly to show them how recklessly dangerous Hermosa is and how the HSWS is the only one trying to protect them.
We should rip the black box and see exactly what was going on in the command bridge when this went down and decide accordingly what we'll do with the crew.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Yeah, we should go over the wreck with a fine toothed comb at Heimdall Anchorage and then ship it home. And absolutely share (some of the) sensor and comms logs with the Hermosans to outline the events leading up to it.
I think regardless of what was going on, we can't exactly prosecute a foreign government's military officers - the crew were doing as instructed, presumably, and the officer who gave the order to spool up the jump drive is like one person.
I think regardless of what was going on, we can't exactly prosecute a foreign government's military officers - the crew were doing as instructed, presumably, and the officer who gave the order to spool up the jump drive is like one person.
- Location
- Here, there, everywhere.
Definitely not, but a recording of the captain saying something stupid and inflammatory is worth it's weight in gold for propaganda value.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
-[ ] Keep it under guard in Heimdall until the Hermosans send a ship to retrieve their crew and so they can visually verify we didn't start shooting. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc. Then ship it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn from it.
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
-[ ] Interrogations
--[ ] The strength and dispositions of Hermosan ships.
--[ ] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
Not sure we'd get much out of their dispositions - the crew (and even the captain) might not know much beyond their local system and those are usually changing, anyway.
So might be better to ask about tech or their internal politics.
Definitely.
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
-[ ] Interrogations
--[ ] The strength and dispositions of Hermosan ships.
--[ ] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
Not sure we'd get much out of their dispositions - the crew (and even the captain) might not know much beyond their local system and those are usually changing, anyway.
So might be better to ask about tech or their internal politics.
Definitely.
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan: An Open Hand
-[X] Keep it under guard in Heimdall as a visible bargaining chip.
-[X] Technological advances on the Glaive and efficiencies that could be found on our own ships.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it.
-[X] Keep it under guard in Heimdall as a visible bargaining chip.
-[X] Technological advances on the Glaive and efficiencies that could be found on our own ships.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it.
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My concern with this is that Hermosa might know we're TL9, and consider that denying us the technology in the wreck is worth an incident. If they want a war, what's to stop them jumping into the system after we return the crew, blowing up the Glaive, and leaving us with nothing?
Attempting to convince the Hermosans that we accidentally destroyed the Glaive while poking around is, IMO, doable. That gets the Hermosans off our back while we reverse engineer the ship.
[X] OPLAN: One Ping Only
-[X] Appear to make preparations to tow it to Home, only for us to Project Azorian it and drop the wreck into a gas giant while fuelling the jump tug. Power it down and disguise it as an asteroid in the outer system, and when the Hermosans come to get the ship, tell them about how we lost it.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] Something else - write in: If any of the crew wish to defect.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew and the wreck after we finish our interrogations
Attempting to convince the Hermosans that we accidentally destroyed the Glaive while poking around is, IMO, doable. That gets the Hermosans off our back while we reverse engineer the ship.
[X] OPLAN: One Ping Only
-[X] Appear to make preparations to tow it to Home, only for us to Project Azorian it and drop the wreck into a gas giant while fuelling the jump tug. Power it down and disguise it as an asteroid in the outer system, and when the Hermosans come to get the ship, tell them about how we lost it.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] Something else - write in: If any of the crew wish to defect.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew and the wreck after we finish our interrogations
@4WheelSword how possible is it, given travel/communications lag, to approach the Aslan about sending a diplomatic contingent to act as neutral observers over our possession of the ship/crew? I feel like being asked to act as a literal 'honour guard' would play well to their sensibilities.
Assuming my read on them is correct and it's feasible - neither of which are guarantees, I'm not familiar with the source material and haven't had time to go back through the quest for a detailed reread:
[ ] OPLAN Don't Give Them An Excuse
-[ ] What To Do About The Glaive
--[ ] Keep it under guard in Heimdall until the Hermosans send a ship to retrieve their crew and so they can visually verify we didn't start shooting. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc. Then ship it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn from it.
--[ ] Make very sure there are no boobytraps or stowaways.
-[ ] What To Do About Hermosa?
--[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
--[ ] Offer parole/asylum to any crew member who does not wish to return, on the understanding that full integration into Home will be waiting on a resolution to the Hermosa situation... but would likely go smoother and more quickly if they're helpful and cooperative. Avoid engendering resentment by pushing, just bait a hook and let them come to you.
-[ ] Invite an Aslan 'Honour Guard' to act as neutral observers in case the Hermosans try to lie about our conduct or otherwise manufacture an incident. Even if the Hermosans do so anyway, the offence may make the Aslan more amenable to joining in on our side.
(with credit to Rat King for the vote on what to do with the Glaive).
Additionally, if splitting out interrogation by specialty is acceptable:
[ ] I-PLAN Specialist Interrogation
-[ ] Have the MIC investigate potential technological advantages on the Glaive, and...
--[ ] For technical crew, focus on the technical stuff, but especially what they can tell us about the misjump and misjumps in general. It appeared to occur due to unexpected mass in the jump field - is it related to the inaccuracy of droptank jumps?
--[ ] For command crew, their orders and what they know of the military and political reasoning behind them.
--[ ] For any other crew, Hermosan space and how tight Hermosa's grip is.
Assuming my read on them is correct and it's feasible - neither of which are guarantees, I'm not familiar with the source material and haven't had time to go back through the quest for a detailed reread:
[ ] OPLAN Don't Give Them An Excuse
-[ ] What To Do About The Glaive
--[ ] Keep it under guard in Heimdall until the Hermosans send a ship to retrieve their crew and so they can visually verify we didn't start shooting. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc. Then ship it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn from it.
--[ ] Make very sure there are no boobytraps or stowaways.
-[ ] What To Do About Hermosa?
--[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
--[ ] Offer parole/asylum to any crew member who does not wish to return, on the understanding that full integration into Home will be waiting on a resolution to the Hermosa situation... but would likely go smoother and more quickly if they're helpful and cooperative. Avoid engendering resentment by pushing, just bait a hook and let them come to you.
-[ ] Invite an Aslan 'Honour Guard' to act as neutral observers in case the Hermosans try to lie about our conduct or otherwise manufacture an incident. Even if the Hermosans do so anyway, the offence may make the Aslan more amenable to joining in on our side.
(with credit to Rat King for the vote on what to do with the Glaive).
Additionally, if splitting out interrogation by specialty is acceptable:
[ ] I-PLAN Specialist Interrogation
-[ ] Have the MIC investigate potential technological advantages on the Glaive, and...
--[ ] For technical crew, focus on the technical stuff, but especially what they can tell us about the misjump and misjumps in general. It appeared to occur due to unexpected mass in the jump field - is it related to the inaccuracy of droptank jumps?
--[ ] For command crew, their orders and what they know of the military and political reasoning behind them.
--[ ] For any other crew, Hermosan space and how tight Hermosa's grip is.
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I think at max this was a "Hermosan hawks wanted to manufacture the incident to press the Hermosan doves to agree with attack on us" thing (preferably by us attacking their ship, getting beated and therefore proving that Hermosa is superior and that they should attack us. Though cowing us into sending the new diplomat to beg the Hermosans off would be good thing too for them).
Though they most probably did not want this specific kind of incident.
With some presumable people within Hermosan leadership, who were possibly leary of authorazing scouts doing cool stunts in space around our vessels and stations. Who presumably exist and would not be impressed with what happened.
(And if necessary, with the "rhesus monkey in a trash bin", aka our Citizen Council)
Well, our Heimdall task force should be a dissuading factor here. Do they want to risk even more ships? Maybe yes, maybe no.
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
The main problem with Aslan honor guard is that the Aslan home space is very far away, so by the time we send a message out that way and they come over, this whole thing might be resolved.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
[X] OPLAN: Firm Grasp
-[X] Keep the Glaive under guard in Heimdall until the Hermosans send a ship to retrieve their crew and so they can visually verify we didn't start shooting. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc. Then ship it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn from it. Increase security in Heimdall until we know the Hermosans aren't about to launch a retaliatory raid.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
-[X] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] Keep the Glaive under guard in Heimdall until the Hermosans send a ship to retrieve their crew and so they can visually verify we didn't start shooting. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc. Then ship it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn from it. Increase security in Heimdall until we know the Hermosans aren't about to launch a retaliatory raid.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it, as well as retrieve those crew who wish to return home.
-[X] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
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- Location
- Under your bed
[X] OPLAN: Firm Grasp
[X] OPLAN: Honest Science, Swear on Me Mum
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it in the next three months. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc during this period. After that we are shipping it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn more from it. We are not inviting Hermosans to Home, if they do not inspect it in the timeframe provided, they'll have to wait until we studied it. Maybe we'll give it back to them after that, maybe not.
--[X] Tell Hermosans that we are concerned with misjumps and any other jump safety issues. Therefore ship is too valuable for us as a research object and we will not return it to them in the observable future. it is as good a deflection as possible, to make it seem that we are not that interested in their actual technologies.
--[X] Commision SIS to indeed research the misjump in question, and to run the series of jump tests next year. We would be building small automated ships to possibly recreate a misjump situation, study the effect of drop tanks on the jump accuracy, and are open to hear SIS's own proposals.
--[X] Send fleet from Staging Point to Heimdall, to protect the ship and station. Use some of them to escort the Modular Conveyor to Home later.
-[X] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew. The crew should be offered asylum too. Task MIC to keep eye on the asylum-takers - there WOULD be Hermosan spies among them.
[ ] OPLAN: Be Mum on Science
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it in the next three months. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc during this period. After that we are shipping it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn more from it. We are not inviting Hermosans to Home, if they do not inspect it in the timeframe provided, they'll have to wait until we studied it. Maybe we'll give it back to them after that, maybe not.
--[ ] Commision SIS to indeed research the misjump in question, and to run the series of jump tests next year. We would be building small automated ships to possibly recreate a misjump situation, study the effect of drop tanks on the jump accuracy, and are open to hear SIS's own proposals. Keep this relatively secret.
--[ ] Send fleet from Staging Point to Heimdall, to protect the ship and station. Use some of them to escort the Modular Conveyor to Home later.
-[ ] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[ ] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew. The crew should be offered asylum too. Task MIC to keep eye on the asylum-takers - there WOULD be Hermosan spies among them.
First plan tries to use the scoyence blather to talk Hermosans into accepting us taking the ship.
Second treats the misjump research as possibly more valuable secret than the ship itself.
I am not exactly sure myself what is better option, leaning towards the first one.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it in the next three months. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc during this period. After that we are shipping it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn more from it. We are not inviting Hermosans to Home, if they do not inspect it in the timeframe provided, they'll have to wait until we studied it. Maybe we'll give it back to them after that, maybe not.
--[X] Tell Hermosans that we are concerned with misjumps and any other jump safety issues. Therefore ship is too valuable for us as a research object and we will not return it to them in the observable future. it is as good a deflection as possible, to make it seem that we are not that interested in their actual technologies.
--[X] Commision SIS to indeed research the misjump in question, and to run the series of jump tests next year. We would be building small automated ships to possibly recreate a misjump situation, study the effect of drop tanks on the jump accuracy, and are open to hear SIS's own proposals.
--[X] Send fleet from Staging Point to Heimdall, to protect the ship and station. Use some of them to escort the Modular Conveyor to Home later.
-[X] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[X] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[X] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew. The crew should be offered asylum too. Task MIC to keep eye on the asylum-takers - there WOULD be Hermosan spies among them.
[ ] OPLAN: Be Mum on Science
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and inspect their ship to show we did not fire upon it in the next three months. Go over it with a fine tooth comb to examine sensor logs, communications, the black box, etc during this period. After that we are shipping it to Home aboard a Modular Conveyor - we can learn more from it. We are not inviting Hermosans to Home, if they do not inspect it in the timeframe provided, they'll have to wait until we studied it. Maybe we'll give it back to them after that, maybe not.
--[ ] Commision SIS to indeed research the misjump in question, and to run the series of jump tests next year. We would be building small automated ships to possibly recreate a misjump situation, study the effect of drop tanks on the jump accuracy, and are open to hear SIS's own proposals. Keep this relatively secret.
--[ ] Send fleet from Staging Point to Heimdall, to protect the ship and station. Use some of them to escort the Modular Conveyor to Home later.
-[ ] The extent of Hermosan systems and how tight their grip is.
-[ ] The reason for Hermosan flights and their disinterest in communications.
-[ ] We should invite Hermosa to come and get their crew. The crew should be offered asylum too. Task MIC to keep eye on the asylum-takers - there WOULD be Hermosan spies among them.
First plan tries to use the scoyence blather to talk Hermosans into accepting us taking the ship.
Second treats the misjump research as possibly more valuable secret than the ship itself.
I am not exactly sure myself what is better option, leaning towards the first one.
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Yeah, that was what I was worried about. I read through in one go yesterday after finishing 4WS's Battletech quest and checking to see if they'd written anything else, so I'm not yet 100% on translating "hexes on a map" into "actual expected travel time". Cheers for the swift response!
[X] OPLAN: Honest Science, Swear on Me Mum
[X] I-PLAN Specialist Interrogation
-[X] Have the MIC investigate potential technological advantages on the Glaive, and...
--[X] For technical crew, focus on the technical stuff, but especially what they can tell us about the misjump and misjumps in general. It appeared to occur due to unexpected mass in the jump field - is it related to the inaccuracy of droptank jumps?
--[X] For command crew, their orders and what they know of the military and political reasoning behind them.
--[X] For any other crew, Hermosan space and how tight Hermosa's grip is.
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Yes, they might. Are we confident that we can stop a massed long-range attack from destroying an already disabled ship? Are we sure they don't have the ability to order the ship to scuttle itself remotely? What do we gain from them thinking we still have the ship that is worth us potentially losing the ship?
Again, I want to stress how huge a boon this is. We have a technologically advanced ship that we can reverse engineer, giving us our best understanding of Hermosan capabilities and the possibility of getting something new from it. Hermosa will know this as well, and may decide the lives of the crew is worth preventing us from getting ahold of these.
Edit: As for Specialist Interrogation, I don't know if we'll have time for that, and it weakens our ability to conduct a general interrogation. An important part of interrogating people is asking the same question to a whole bunch of people so that you can figure out who's making up a lie versus who's telling you the truth. Also, it makes it harder to sound like you know what you're talking about in advance by leaking details that other interviewees have unintentionally told you, which can help to scare the person being interviewed into not lying.
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Well, they already know that we have their ship. I am not very optimistic on our ability to hide it either. So it's either giving it back to them or firmly refusing to give it.
In a pinch I do belive we can return it to them, the data on computers/sensors/blackboxes is still valuable as a consolation prize. Though keeping the ship is more valuable, obviously.
Though you are correct that we should send mor ships to Heimdall to show more force and possibly to face the attack.
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Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
- Location
- Misery!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] OPLAN: Firm Grasp