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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
Disagree.

He's a god, not a genius loci.
The earth existed before he did, it will exist after he is gone. He's an aftermarket add-on, not a natural part of the earth as created. None of the gods or Great Dragons are.

He's not even god of the earth or anything, he's god of law, and in some stories son of the sun-god.
There's no intrinsic link to this place, just to the Inca people who lived here.

If we can exorcise the demons of unawakened Whampires who was born with it, or a Coin that someone picked up, or a Mantle of a Fae Court Queen, we can almost certainly do the same here.
IMO.

Now I really should go to bed.
The QM can rule at their leisure, but there isnt anything stopping us yanking him out and moving him.
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To repeat: unnatural union of energy and matter. A local god/genius loci (which should be the same thing since I've never heard of a local being destroyed after killing the genius, but always the other way around) is completely natural to both Exalted and DF cosmology.

The mechanism of his death seems to be to return all the power he accumulated back to the earth, blessing its inhabitants, which was corrupted by the Reds before to give power to the Lords of the Night.

But yeah let's the QM decide.

BronzeTongue said:
Fair enough if you're not having fun, but maybe don't vote for deliberate self sabotage just to see if the flames burning our stuff down will be pretty?
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I could, and it is a possibility because there are a lot of people who think this is a good option, be voting for an inefficient option, but that doesn't mean I'm sabotaging anything. If I were really trying to self-sabotage I would have voted for Molly to kill herself instead of just voting for the option I found most interesting.

[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later

[X] Plan Stargate Command
 
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Azais said:
I could, and it is a possibility because there are a lot of people who think this is a good option, be voting for an inefficient option, but that doesn't mean I'm sabotaging anything. If I were really trying to self-sabotage I would have voted for Molly to kill herself instead of just voting for the option I found most interesting.
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My bad then. It sounded like you were saying you'd vote for a situation where we'd end up dying in epic combat even if we didn't need to and doing so didn't accomplish anything, purely because the fight sounded more interesting than the rest of the game.

Which is more like playing with a death wish because the consequences are irrelevant than self sabotage I suppose.
 
BronzeTongue said:
My bad then. It sounded like you were saying you'd vote for a situation where we'd end up dying in epic combat even if we didn't need to and doing so didn't accomplish anything, purely because the fight sounded more interesting than the rest of the game.

Which is more like playing with a death wish because the consequences are irrelevant than self sabotage I suppose.
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I just stopped playing trying to consider the best path and just vote for the option that resonates with me the most. Maybe later I'll go back to always considering the most efficient one when my enthusiasm burns again, but for now I just want to have fun and forget about problems IRL.
 
BronzeTongue said:
; see Harry and the Erlking. They provide leverage but it's possible to defeat them. It's even possible to be clever about it and deal with the problem by attacking the circle through whatever it isn't protecting itself against.

You're acting like this is some perfect trick that everyone else was too unimaginative to use. If it worked like that a number of different events wouldn't have happened as they did. Hell, our own trip to the Wicked City would have ended with a circle ward around Joe as a basic defense we had no answer for.
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I mean sure but those are because they are temporary circles or used to contain beings much stronger than casters.

Ours would be massive ward arrays made out of magical super conductors that are powered by a 1001 sorcerers assigned to it.

Its a completelty different scales. Think less anything harry has done and more the hidden halls or even demonreach.
We have more resources than earth at our command, we can raise defenses that are equivalent of norad

DragonParadox said:
Exorcism is specifically about putting things back in their places. The god that has been attached to these lands for thousands of years belongs here. He has issues, but not about where he is, more what's been done with him.
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that doesn't make any sense. You can exrocise gods in exalted just fine. The exrocism is for exrocising things nothing more and nothing less, its the tool of primordials, they define what is natural not the other way around.
 
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DragonParadox said:
You could, but those cannot be made on the spot. They take extended rolls and days of casting.
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The calcs were here:
BronzeTongue said:
I don't want a portal, but I do want to save this guy.

Could we potentially make a splendor on the spot to save him?

The rules for making a splendor are:



For a 3 dot splendor Molly needs 21 successes. Typically rolls are taken at 1 hour intervals, but charms like TTC are applicable to this, so that's more like 12 minutes for Molly.

The roll would be:

5 (int) + 5 (occult) + 10 (excellency) + 2 (WHWH) + 3 (max FPoR) + 2 (stunt) = 27 dice
At
4 + 3 (rating) -3 (CCC) -1 (BSM) = 3 difficulty

Which leaves us at an 71% change of 21+ successes. 89% of 20+, so spend willpower to be sure.

Is there something we can make in that budget that would save this guy from being recaptured?

The numbers don't work for making him a 1 up mushroom in a single build cycle, so that's out. Maybe something to curse the hell out of anyone looking for him?
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I.e. Molly has a high chance to accumulate enough successes in a single roll if going all out.
 
Acolyte said:
that doesn't make any sense. You can exrocise gods in exalted just fine. The exrocism is for exrocising things nothing more and nothing less, its the tool of primordials, they define what is natural not the other way around.
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Molly is not a primordial (yet), what defines what is natural or not for the Exorcism of Sapphire is the local cosmology and for that the current state of the god is natural.
 
BronzeTongue said:
He might not be a wizard, but the Denarians can get some wild cheating going and he has some people built like that going for him. He also has Hell's information network going for him. The simplest part of which is that his partner Anduriel hears everything said in the presence of a shadow unless an appreciable amount of effort is put into blocking him.

Perhaps he isn't paying attention right now, but this event will be rather loud and he can simply listen for anyone looking into it to get more details. Like say the red court investigating what the hell happened to their divine cattle and the elder who was supposed to be making steak.

We won't necessarily move to the top of his list, but as Molly becomes a problem or an opportunity things are going to happen. "He won't bother" isn't a good defense to rely on and his ability to act isn't crippled by his own misbehavior until after Mab played him much later in the series.
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I don't know how else to say it but I will try to rephrase it differently I do not think the denarians are powerful enough to not use Angelic magic to breach a fixed position and if they use Angelic magic they immediately draw down the angel of death to help the Defenders of a fixed position so they need to scrounge together favors and help and try to move down into the ass end of the Amazon.

When it comes down to it I think that because we have Supernatural assistance both spirits and people that have their own magic to set up Wards to make fortifications to have automatic turrets that might be able to pierce veils to actually fortify position and this is such a small hole in the world that we can literally make a big volt that is also magically Enchanted around it that the fundamentally human portion of that partnership will decide no this is not worth it you want to get back at Molly Carpenter then let's set up an ambush to try and kill Molly Carpenter instead of trying to hit this 3 m wide hole in the middle of Brazil.

Where we would need to somehow logistically move enough forces down in the Never Never to pierce through the supernatural assistance that Molly can bring through Pierce through the magical but real assistance that we can also bring through in the form of soldiers and Technology as well as actual building fortifications that can all be reinforced the magic the denarians are humans that aren't actually immune to just being hit a lot and that's really the core of what I'm talking about. They are powerful there is no doubt about that but using too much of that power can draw the eye of God and because the portal is in the real world the second they get caught cheating do you not expect lightning to fall or an angel to show up.

Even the most powerful denarians which is Nicodemus isn't actually immune to just being grabbed by someone with super strength and beaten until he cannot move or choked to death with The Noose around his neck. We have Spirits we have soldiers we have magic of our own and a world with people of magic with their own attacking a fixed position is a death sentence for the denarians because they are mostly human.

Inherently the denarians to try and attempt to assault a fixed position that has Spirit help as magical help has possibly white council help if we were willing to enlist it and use it as a base for their operations in South America is suicide for the Mortal host.

This is before we get into the logistical issues of moving enough forces to breach Through The Never Never when this is definitely near faery. Which captain nickel-headed just pissed off the monarchs of not too long ago. They can't bother trying to attempt to pierce through the real world because that would mean trekking through dozens of miles of Brazilian forest in a place where we would be able to set up both turrets mines and drones to survey the area. Though I don't think there's anything stopping us from doing the same in the never never I'm thinking about it.

It comes down to the fact I do not believe them to be at all immune to the efforts of people that have magic and Dresden Files has shown Us in that being a white vampire is enough to put one of them on their asses never mind being a combat Fomori. A lot of them aren't even more durable than a normal person. Though again this just seems to suggest that Nicodemus doesn't have some scheme he's currently running that might be taking up his attention that he won't want to put on hold that to try and nip on down to South America.
 
Azais said:
Molly is not a primordial (yet), what defines what is natural or not for the Exorcism of Sapphire is the local cosmology and for that the current state of the god is natural.
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Not how that works. Sorcery is the tools that the primordials used. Having sorcery is how you define it. We have the sorcery so we can define it.
 
DragonParadox said:
You could, but those cannot be made on the spot. They take extended rolls and days of casting.
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The splendor rules specify that the extended rolls happen at one hour intervals though? The rest of the crafting system allows for the use of charms like TTC to accelerate work too.

As long as we can hit the benchmark in one interval it shouldn't take days.

Focus the Power: Having gathered the power, the Exalt must then carve it into a mystic token.
This is an extended Intelligence + Occult roll against difficulty (4 + Splendor rating), made at
one-hour intervals. Success requires a total accumulation of (Splendor rating x 7) successes.
Each roll requires the expenditure of 5 Essence, making this a process best performed in a
Dragon Nest. Abandoning the project before gaining enough successes (due to distraction,
attack, or more urgent business) means the Exalt must start over, and the rating of the Splendor
she can make is reduced by one. A botch ruins the Splendor and disperses its power uselessly. If
someone's soul was being shaped, this grants them an appropriately nasty Flaw like Nightmares,
but another try can be made after the end of the current story.
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BronzeTongue said:
The splendor rules specify that the extended rolls happen at one hour intervals though? The rest of the crafting system allows for the use of charms like TTC to accelerate work too.

As long as we can hit the benchmark in one interval it shouldn't take days.
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Yep, you could do it in hours, that is still a lot of channeling essence in the middle of what is meant to be a operation against the Black Council.
 
For anyone who isn't voting to outright install a backdoor into Sanctuary in the middle of any territory, could y'all please also vote for the default option to decline, just in case? Right now the winning option is just a recipe for disaster.
 
Goldfish said:
For anyone who isn't voting to outright install a backdoor into Sanctuary in the middle of any territory, could y'all please also vote for the default option to decline, just in case? Right now the winning option is just a recipe for disaster.
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You might find more support in getting people who are voting to let the God die to vote for [ ] Fighting Fit.
 
[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
[X] Plan Stargate Command
[X] Plan Fighting Fit
 
Azais said:
I just stopped playing trying to consider the best path and just vote for the option that resonates with me the most.
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*Shrug* Whatever people get out of their play style is what they get out of it. Can't reconcile that. Personally though one of the things I dislike the most about Quest is getting railroaded from a narrative I find interesting to handle a sudden emerging crisis that the player-base themselves saw fit to foster. I am now wary of you Azais as your play style runs counter to my own enjoyment.


Jest aside, hopefully the vulnerability won't be staying open for months on end or for an even more frustrating period of time. Given that the White Council still has non senior members left, the issue proposed in doing this was never really the Red King. That guy is suffering mental debuffs and would've gotten killed by Morgan and co if he hadn't ran. If he and his step into the FFC and E4 Molly shows up with infinite Shintai stage two, its signature ability, Molly clones, passive mote regen, default infinitely respawning armies and Lord of the Land, it'll get handled.

By any reasonable metric the Red Court isn't the main risk induced here. That would come from those whose high threat rating is justified by non direct combat abilities. If the backdoor doesn't stay open for long it may not be a real issue but given that a God is involved and we don't know where to even start with him or what we'll need that seems unlikely at present. We'll see where this goes.

Goldfish said:
For anyone who isn't voting to outright install a backdoor into Sanctuary in the middle of any territory, could y'all please also vote for the default option to decline, just in case? Right now the winning option is just a recipe for disaster.
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Shit. Honestly you may as well mass tag those relevant parties in thread like Degorium has done before. That is really the only way that's getting out to enough people to make a difference here.
 
BoredMan said:
Shit. Honestly you may as well mass tag those relevant parties in thread like Degorium has done before. That is really the only way that's getting out to enough people to make a difference here.
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Mass pinging is not well viewed for several reasons, just saying.

Degorium having done it in the past is no reason to do it yourself now, particularly since it wasn't done this vote.
 
Nyarky said:
Mass pinging is not well viewed for several reasons, just saying.

Degorium having done it in the past is no reason to do it yourself now, particularly since it wasn't done this vote.
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You say this now as it wouldn't be in service to your vote. He's done it more than once besides.
 
BoredMan said:
You say this now as it wouldn't be in service to your vote.
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I could have mass pinged people if I wanted to, make sure that everyone that vote for saving the god is massing behind Yog after Drangonparadox confirmed that Bronzetongue's option really seemed like it wouldn't work. (We don't have the time to make a splendor in the middle of our operation against the black council)

I didn't.

It isn't a question of my preferred vote winning or not there, it's one of mass pinging being bad in general.

Edit:

I also don't approve of when Degorium did it.

Edit2:

If I really wanted to manipulate the votes I would be writing some alternative ways to help with the express purpose of dividing the opposition.
 
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Nyarky said:
I could have mass pinged people if I wanted to, make sure that everyone that vote for saving the god is massing behind Yog
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He's voting for the same main vote with a plan attached. There isn't much of a functional difference as those details could be added after the fact and Molly takes the same action, which is the crux of the vote, in either case.

Nyarky said:
It isn't a question of my preferred vote winning or not there, it's one of mass pinging being bad in general.
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Again, of course you'd say that. It wouldn't be in service to your vote this time around.
 
[X] Plan Stargate Command
[X] You are saving an ancient Peruvian God today and that's final, you'll find some way to guard the gate or sever it later
 
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