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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
Plan draft.

VOTE
[] Plan Basilisk
-[] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[] Fathomless Poison Haven 8 XP
—[] Sandstrike Blast, 8 XP
—[] Ox Body 3 XP
—[] By Rage Recast 3: Swift Stride 3 XP
—[] Counterspell: Spirit 3 XP
—[] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[] Perception 4 1XP
—[] Wits 4 1 XP
-[] Lydia, 7 XP
—[] Devil Fighter 2: Dragon Speed: 4 XP
—[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[] Tiffany, 7 XP,
—[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[] Merit: Ability Aptitude Occult, 3 XP
—[] Wits 4: 1 XP
-[] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
—[] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
—[] Manipulation 2: 1 XP


RATIONALE
Rage Recast Swift Stride doubles Molly's movement speed whenever she activates her Aspects.
And if we are going to have to deal with wizards that have been whammied, being able to close the range fast will be important to disable them non-lethally.

Ox Body for extra health for both Molly and her clones.

Fathomless Poison Haven gives immunity to liquid poisons, corrosive liquids, crushing, drowning etc. For several days.
Which allows Molly to immunize her clones and other people like her father by just touching them, for several days at a time, and allows her to neutralize liquid poisons inside a person like an antidote.

Also, Peabody used an acid spell in canon, so acid immunity might be useful.

Sandstrike Blast is a ranged attack(eyebeams! swordbeams!) that in its primary mode is a single target strike.
In its secondary mode, its an AoE perfect attack that will hit anywhere that we can see.

Intelligence and Wits improve spellcasting and counterspelling respectively, with Intelligence improving her academic work as well, which helps with school.
Appearance improves her passive social rolls, and Perception improves her ability to notice danger and things of interest.

Counterspell Spirit allows Molly to counterspell spells and workings by spirits.
In particular, Outsider magic.
She's got the best stats for counterspelling, so this is best in her hands.



Lydia gets Dragon Speed, which allows her to buff her Dexterity for the scene.
And she also gets Counterspell Human, because of the Peabody thing, and the risk of whammied wizards. And also because necromancers are her business.

Tiffany gets Ability Aptitude Occult, which applies -2DC to all her Occult rolls, including her counterspells.
And she also gets Counterspell Human, because hostile mindcontrolled wizards are a thing, and a significant number of Denarians can use at last some magic.

Olivia gets Counterspells against Vampires and Spirits, for obvious reasons.
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Draft Plan updated after feedback.


VOTE
[] Plan Basilisk
-[] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[] Fathomless Poison Haven 8 XP
—[] Sandstrike Blast, 8 XP
—[] Ox Body 3 XP
—[] By Rage Recast 3: Swift Stride 3 XP
—[] Counterspell: Spirit 3 XP
—[] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[] Perception 4 1XP
—[] Wits 4 1 XP
-[] Lydia, 7 XP
—[] Devil Fighter 2: Dragon Speed: 4 XP
—[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[] Tiffany, 7 XP,
—[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[] Merit: Ability Aptitude Occult, 3 XP
—[] Wits 4: 1 XP
-[] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
—[] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
—[] Manipulation 2: 1 XP


CHANGES
Molly drops Appearance 3 for Charisma 4, which is used in Fathomless Poison Haven.
Tiffany gets Wits 4 for 1XP, in order to improve her counterspelling.
Olivia gets Manipulation 2 for 1XP to improve her Mana Manipulation.
 
uju32 said:
1)Its an experienced wizard on familiar ground, surrounded by at least some thralls.
Its not identical, but its uncomfortably similar.

Lord Raith was walking around with an Investment that allowed him to ignore mortal magic from Ebenezar McCoy.
Thats canon, not something from WoD or Exalted.

Similarly, Vittorio Malvora(who we really should check on, btw) had an Outsider Inside that allowed him to shut down an entire war party, including both Harry and Carlos, Lara Raith, Thomas and their sisters, and a company of Einherjar. Simultaneously.
The quest doesnt really need to amp the difficulty all that much here.

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2) I dont think thats sufficient against a prepared wizard.

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3)Based on the fact that they are rolling Wits + Occult at DC8 for offensive counterspell.
Thats an average of 2 successes, rounded down, on a 10 dice, mortal maximum, counterspelling pool.

===
4)Mikaboshi was not the first person to make this point, just the latest.
Iku Turso pulled that on us by dispelling VLE. Before him, the Will of Kakuri tried to pull that shit on us, and only the fact we had forewarning allowed us to preemptively defuse it.

===
5) An Arcana with Wits 7 Occult 5 would have 12 dice of counterspelling support, and would still average only 4 successes, rounded up, in the absence of any enemy debuffs.
And there will be enemy debuffs/buffs against an experienced wizard.

===
6) And when you CANT afford to do this?

Our enemy is a mind controller who has had more than a decade of access and canonically had his fingers in the brains of every Warden under the age of 50 besides Dresden, and a bunch of elder wizards as well as every serving Senior Council member.

He outright puppetted the Captain-Commander of the Wardens as a remotely activated assassin.

We are looking at potentially a ton of mindcontrolled Wardens and Council wizards who we cannot afford to kill without longterm consequences, in addition to whatever Peabody brings to the party himself.
And our victory condition is avoiding wizard deaths while outing this dude.
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1) No. For the power scaling to keep anything remotely like reasonable levels of balance they cannot be the same or close enough to be worth a comparison. Mortal mages are mortal mages and godlike hell lords in their places of power are godlike hell lords in their places of power.

If we're going by canon Peabody didn't have investments like that and would have been noticed if we did.

2) In combination with everything else it is. We've fought the Outsiders and their major servants before. Counterspelling has some utility, but it is not a core need.

3) Sutra aren't mortals and the dice cap is more of a suggestion.

4) People who can counter us and people who cannot be countered by anything less than our personal attention aren't the same or particularly common.

5) Modifying that kind of roll is supposed to be very difficult even on the scale of archmages. That's also a very basic Arcana build; no merits or buffs of its own to put into play.

6) In canon the most he could do for more than a moment is make them freeze. He certainly didn't show the ability to make them perform magic. If he did the additional ability counterspelling offers over what we already have would not make a significant difference because of how action economy works.

—-
Peabody is a serious issue, but you're overstating the abilities we can reasonably expect.


uju32 said:
We're gonna have to disagree on her reaction and preferences here.
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We have it straight from DP in regards to our original Shintai vote that it would feel natural if we picked something other than a baseline human. So Molly's reaction wouldn't be inherently negative. Preferences are more abstract, but we're playing the character here and I don't think this is particularly out of line with our trajectory so far.
 
Ok, so, before the voting opens, I wanted to make another stab at a plan, and make preliminary arguments.

I am currently proposing this plan:

[] Plan Courtly ways
-[] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
--[] Five Paths, One Ring ●, 4 XP
--[] Turn Back the Wheel ●●, 8 XP
--[] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[] Sandstrike blast, 8 XP
--[] Perception 4, 1 XP
--[] Charisma 4, 1 XP
-[] Lydia, 7 XP
--[] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
--[] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

First and foremost - we are going to have one more round of XP spending before we deal with Peabody, or do basically anything else. We have Wizard training camp, and we have Forge making, and we have consequences of clone actions left in the month. I can see some combat or spy activity in the Wizard training camp event, and some unexpected stuff in clone reports. But I don't think it's too pressing to get Fathmoless Posion Haven right now. It can wait until next turn.

Primarily I aimed at getting stuff I consider interesting. I'll concentrate on Molly, since everyone else seems to be non-controversial.
1) Why no Eschaton Shintai? I don't think we need it right now, and the later we buy it, the better for two reasons. One is maintaining secrecy, and two is having as many by Rage Recasts bought by the time we get it as possible. Ideally, I'd get it on the vote before we are expected to fight Lasciel or dethrone Ravana in favor of Olivia's ancestor. Plus, on a personal note, it gives me more time to come up with a design.
2) The whole XP spending is split into 3 main groups - combat, foundational, and "new tricks":
2.1) Combat is Ox Body + Sandstrike blast. Now, to be clear, we have basically crushed all combat encounters so far. We have done so at least in part by spending at least some XP on combat ability each turn. Ox body gives us more passive survivability, Sandstrike blast gives us scene-long ranged combat ability.
2.2) Foundational. That's attributes, and both of the one-dot custom charms. The texts of the custom charms are listed below, but basically they imrpove our essence regeneration, give us situational scene-long -1 DC, and increase our dice pools from +1 dice to +3 dice depending on how focused on doing specific things we are.
2.3) New tricks. I chose Turning Back the Wheel. This is my favorite child of a charm. Yes, it's expensive, and yes, the bonus is limited, but I really, really like the narrative results. I realize that this is not everyone's cup of tea. As a compromise, I am willing to substitute it for Proxy Servant Protocol. Proxy Servant Protocol is the squad coordination charm that allows us to substitute our dice pools for those of our allies in the scene, to communicate with them telepathically, and to access their senses. Coupled with Emergency Minion Holograms which we already have, this boosts our combat and utility function very strongly. We can protect our allies with our higher soak dice, increase their combat ability, etc. Either of the two charms are synergetic with attribute buys, since either charisma or perception are used for the rolls.

Why do I want TBtW or PSP? Because of baby wizards. TBtW is one of the very few charms that shouldn't have a strong political backlash as far as empowering mortals go. Remembering your past lives is an established spiritual practice - Dalai Lama is a serial reincarnator and a spiritual leader of a nation. PSP should be useful both in training wizards in squad tactics, and in the Forge, to get minions to help.

Basically, we'll likely be benefiting from these charms immediately.

The texts of custom charms I am proposing to buy:

In the Golden City of Journeys it is understood that the greatest treasures are found on the steepest paths, and to walk them is to be rewarded. This wisdom is carved into the infernal's bones, and she draws strength from that adversity.
System:
While in places that are either spiritually desolate or harsh enough to impose environmental penalties the infernal regenerates essence at half the rate she would in a dragon nest.
Additionally, if she possesses Five Paths, One Ring and is making use of the shift of journeys at the time she may recover her essence rating in motes when subjected to an environment she hasn't experienced in the last day.
Finally, when moving to a new environment she hasn't been to in the last day, she receives a -1 DC for the first scene in the new environment.
The infernal finds her footing on the five pillars of her soul, dancing among them under the life giving light of the will that encircles them all.
System:
By leaning into the essence of one of the five pillar-cities of her soul the infernal may enter a shift centered on its themes. So long as she acts in tune with that nature success builds on itself; each overall check she passes using the relevant skills will add +1 dice to the pool for all of them up to +3.
She may only adopt one shift at a time, and actively using abilities in the domain of another city immediately resets the bonus and pushes her to that city's shift.
Rolls that use skills other than those outlined below do not end a shift, but only benefit from the bonus if clearly in line with the one currently in use.
The Red City: Law, Leadership, Craft, Melee, Alertness, firearms
The Emerald City: Academics, Occult, Science, Technology, Finance, Computer
The Sapphire City: Expression, Politics, Performance, Subterfuge, Athletics, Larceny
The Amethyst City: Medicine, Investigation, Empathy, Intimidation, Etiquette, Stealth
The Golden City: Survival, Brawl, Awareness, Streetwise, Animal Ken, Drive

To a denizen of the Fivefold Courts, past lives are just a matter of everyday life. The Infernal's touch brings this cursed gift to her friends and enemies
System: Upon touching or striking someone, the infernal spends 1 essence and rolls Charisma + Occult against the difficulty of target's permanent Willpower. Upon success, the target is granted (successes) dots of past life merit. Beyond 5 dots, the benefits are as such: at 6 to 10 dots, Past Lives can be used twice per day, at 11 to 15 successes three times per day, and 16 to 20 - four times, and at beyond 20 successes, once per scene. The shock of sudden awakening inflicts successes unsoakable bashing damage. The previous incarnation of the target is not integrated with the current one, and might, indeed, come into conflict with them. Mechanically, this is represented by one to three derangements - Fugue on one or more Infernal's successes, Schizophrenia on three or more Infernal's successes, Split Personality on five or more Infernal's successes. The Infernal can pay additional 2 essence to smoothly integrate the newly awakened memories and thoughts into the current ego, granting the benefits of the charm to the target while shielding them from harmful consequences. The charm can only be used once every year and a day on any one target.

The servants of the Empress and the extensions of her will. The Infernal makes this saying a reality.
System: The infernal spends 1 essence and rolls charisma+leadership. She then selects up to that number of willing allies within the scene to effect for the remainder of it. Whenever they make a roll, the Infernal may choose to act instead, substituting their appropriate dice pools for her own, and rolling at the same difficulty as they would have had. Multiple actions performed through this Charm suffer a climbing dice pool penalty similar to normal multiple actions rule.
The Infernal and her proxies get the ability to communicate telepathically, and the Infernal may roll Perception+Awareness at difficulty 8 to access the senses of her proxies.
 
Yog said:
Gossamer is an exalted-grade magical material. I have little doubt that if we find Orichalcium mine, or learn how to smelt soulsteel we'll be able to use them for splendors. This, however, in no way, supports your argument. I have nothing more to say, as it seems pointless to argue further.
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1) Gossamer is not one of the Six. It has no especial significance in Exalted crafting.

2) This is ExWoD, not Exalted 2E.
Exalted did not require that you melt down the body parts of supernatural beings to make shit, or that you needed Dragons Nests or manses to make stuff. The rules are not the same.

If high-end alchemical products arent reagents for Exalted crafting, Orichalcum is unlikely to count as one either.

Yog said:
That's how all your textbooks worked ever. I won't touch politics-heavy subjects like history or economics, but let's just do this:
1) What's the square root of -1? Why?
2) What is temperature? Can you have temperature -1 K?
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*rolls eyes*
That was not how my textbooks worked.

Yog said:
Are you insane? Are you serious? Of course it's in White Council's best interests and their students' best interests that White Council lies to the students and teaches them in as biased way as possible. Because magic affects magic user which affects magic. To do magic by means of mortal sorcery is to believe what you are doing is wrong. So, of course magic coming from death is wrong, alien, different and not magic at all. Because otherwise a curious student will try to do it.
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This is demonstrably untrue.
There is nothing quite so corrosive to an organization's loyalty as to find out that said organization's leadership has been lying to you. Not classifying information, but actively lying to you. And about basic information that affects your survival, to boot.

This is especially true when the White Council does not have a monopoly on basic information in the first place or on magic scholarship; we have seen in canon that the Council is not the only entity capable of training human wizards.

Odin did it for the Merlin.
The Leanansidhe did it for Molly Carpentr. Summer Lady Aurora did it for Elaine Mallory.
River Shoulders did it for Senior Council wizard Listens to Wind.

The White Council as an organization could not survive that sort of breach of trust.


Carlos Ramirez was told about the Old Ones, and the location of the Sleeper in the Pacific near the end of his apprenticeship.
In this very quest, Harry has been to the Council library and borrowed restricted books for Molly to read.
The White Council does not deceive its apprentices, and frankly does not have the institutional capability to do so.

Yog said:
The enemy will not cooperate, but that doesn't mean that the enemy always gets first say.
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The Enemy always has their own plans, even when they dont get initiative.
You yourself certainly can never count on having initiative, or on getting to control all the variables of a prospective encounter.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying to you, or has been lied to.
 
uju32 said:
*rolls eyes*
That was not how my textbooks worked.
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That you don't recognize it is your problem, to be frank. Also, what about my questions?
uju32 said:
The Enemy always has their own plans, even when they dont get initiative.
You yourself certainly can never count on having initiative, or on getting to control all the variables of a prospective encounter.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying to you, or has been lied to.
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You have a very bad habit to always assume that the opposition always has the advantage. It is just as, if not more, deliberating than underestimating them.
 
BronzeTongue said:
1) No. For the power scaling to keep anything remotely like reasonable levels of balance they cannot be the same or close enough to be worth a comparison. Mortal mages are mortal mages and godlike hell lords in their places of power are godlike hell lords in their places of power.

If we're going by canon Peabody didn't have investments like that and would have been noticed if we did.

2) In combination with everything else it is. We've fought the Outsiders and their major servants before. Counterspelling has some utility, but it is not a core need.

3) Sutra aren't mortals and the dice cap is more of a suggestion.

4) People who can counter us and people who cannot be countered by anything less than our personal attention aren't the same or particularly common.

5) Modifying that kind of roll is supposed to be very difficult even on the scale of archmages. That's also a very basic Arcana build; no merits or buffs of its own to put into play.

6) In canon the most he could do for more than a moment is make them freeze. He certainly didn't show the ability to make them perform magic. If he did the additional ability counterspelling offers over what we already have would not make a significant difference because of how action economy works.

—-
Peabody is a serious issue, but you're overstating the abilities we can reasonably expect
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1)Hard disagree.
Peabody smuggled an Outsider into the Hidden Halls of Edinburgh, through all the wards. Had it right next to the Senior Council, in his ink bottle. Noone saw or sensed a thing. Or at least admitted to doing so.

Few things as deadly as a wizard with preptime. Man has years of it.
And in this setting, the dude has the backing of what sounds like a Nephandi Gilledian.

===
2) The Dragon almost blew up a neighborhood of Vegas with an earthquake spell. Even on the brink of defeat.
Without Harry pulling a Harry, we would be dealing with the geopolitical aftermath of that disaster.
And shortly before that we had to scramble to rig up a ritual to defuse the chaos hex on Vegas.

Counterspelling and unweaving is very much a core need now.

===
3) SUTRA Iris had a dicepool of 7 against Evil Bob several updates ago, and that was in her specialty of cyber operations.
We have a reasonable idea what to expect from them.

===
4) People seriousface enough to draw Molly's personal attention are not randos off the street.
And among that self-selecting population, people with the skill and/or resources to counter mortal maximum Arcana are going to be significantly more common.

===
5) Not for prepared wizards under WoD rules. Nevermind those with Investments, or items/artifacts.

An Arcana is not an Exalt. It doesnt operate on the same rules.
There's a fair amount of bullshit that Molly skips over because Exalt that many/most other casters would have to deal with in the same position.

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6) In canon he was caught out in the middle of a trial for someone else.

Molly has been on a tear through the supernatural world, and her appearance in the Hidden Halls will have him on his guard.
I would certainly be pleased if we caught him pants down.
I sure as fuck dont expect to do so. Or plan based on it.

BronzeTongue said:
Peabody is a serious issue, but you're overstating the abilities we can reasonably expect.
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I very much dont think I am. Narratively or mechanically.

This was, after all, the guy who published Der Lied du Erlking, the book that was used in Dead Beat to summon the Erlking for th Darkhallow. He's no Senior Council member, but given the amount of preptime and the potential for collateral, he would be a deadly serious opponent even before we realized the presence/interference of Ashraaf.
 
Yog said:
That you don't recognize it is your problem, to be frank. Also, what about my questions?
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That you think this is a thing is your problem.

Yog said:
You have a very bad habit to always assume that the opposition always has the advantage. It is just as, if not more, deliberating than underestimating them.
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No, I have a healthy respect for the displayed capabilities of our opposition.

That is how you avoid getting surprised by a dude who just sold his soul and his son's life for a combat upgrade to Chimestry 9 and Celerity 7+ just out of pure spite. Or running into a Red Court elder vampire with Koldunic Sorcery 5, Vicissitude 9 and a dragonform out of myth.

Or trying to murk some scrub of a Blampire, and having your Solaroid Ghost Eating Technique- charm contested by some unknown entity who isnt even in the area.

A procession of what the fuck surprises have semi-regularly jumped at us out of the blue; once the immediate circumstances are past, you seem to forget about them.
I dont.
 
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[X] Plan Courtly ways
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[X] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
--[X] Five Paths, One Ring ●, 4 XP
--[X] Proxy Servant Protocol ●●, 8 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Sandstrike blast, 8 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
--[X] Charisma 4, 1 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

I switched Turn Back the Wheel for Proxy Servant Protocol, as it's more broadly useful. I feel we'll be getting a lot of mieage out of that one.
 
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Final plan.

VOTE
[X] Plan Basilisk
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[X] Fathomless Poison Haven 8 XP
—[X] Sandstrike Blast, 8 XP
—[X] Ox Body 3 XP
—[X] By Rage Recast 3: Swift Stride 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit 3 XP
—[X] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[X] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[X] Perception 4 1XP
—[X] Wits 4 1 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
—[X] Shih Art Devil Fighter 2: Dragon Speed: 4 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP,
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[X] Merit: Ability Aptitude Occult, 3 XP
—[X] Wits 4: 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
—[X] Manipulation 2: 1 XP


RATIONALE
Rage Recast Swift Stride doubles Molly's movement speed whenever she activates her Aspects.
And if we are going to have to deal with wizards that have been whammied, being able to close the range fast will be important to disable them non-lethally.

Ox Body for extra health for both Molly and her clones.

Fathomless Poison Haven gives immunity to liquid poisons, corrosive liquids, crushing, drowning etc. For several days.
Which allows Molly to immunize her clones and other people like her father and party members by just touching them, for several days at a time, and allows her to use it as an antidote to ingested poisons in other people.

Also, Peabody used an acid spell in canon, so acid immunity might be useful.

Sandstrike Blast is a ranged attack(eyebeams! swordbeams!) that in its primary mode is a single target strike.
In its secondary mode, its an AoE perfect attack that will hit anywhere that we can see.

Intelligence and Wits improve spellcasting and counterspelling respectively, with Intelligence improving her academic work as well, which helps with school.
Charisma improves her social rolls, and Perception improves her ability to notice danger and things of interest.

Counterspell Spirit allows Molly to counterspell spells and workings by spirits.
In particular, Outsider magic.
She's got the best stats for counterspelling, so this is best in her hands.



Lydia gets Dragon Speed, which allows her to buff her Dexterity for the scene. This improves both combat and speed.
And she also gets Counterspell Human, because of the Peabody thing, and the risk of whammied wizards.
And also because human necromancers are her business.

Tiffany gets Ability Aptitude Occult, which applies -2DC to all her Occult rolls, including her counterspells.
She also gets Counterspell Human, because hostile mindcontrolled wizards are a thing, and a significant number of Denarians can use at last some magic. And Wits 4, to help her countersplling.

Olivia gets Counterspells against Vampires and Spirits, for obvious reasons.
And Manipulation 2, to help with Mana Manipulation.
 
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uju32 said:
2) We knew we could use the lake to teleport TO Chicago.
We still had to schlep on foot from the Chicago shoreline to our destination inside the city, deep enough that Alfred couldnt pick us out personally. Or we could fly, assuming it wasnt daytime; still the same speed.
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It's not a closed lake, so we weren't actually forced to stop at its shoreline. We could have used any river coming from or to the lake to get farther away in about the same time as Sophia took, so the problem really wasn't speed but the fact that we didn't want to use our water charm in front of Alfred.

Also, doubling our speed wouldn't have helped if you are that sure that Alfred would have identified us if we had only ran from the shoreline, since, as you say yourself his supposed range is apparently covering a good part of the town.

Which once again mean that the aspect you want to buy was completely and utterly worthless for one of the situation were you say it would've helped. It wouldn't have allowed us to get far enough away without a charm we already have, it wouldn't have changed how said charm would have helped us, and it doesn't change the fact that the main factor in our decision wasn't related to our speed.

BronzeTongue said:
Peabody is a serious issue, but you're overstating the abilities we can reasonably expect.
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Guess we found the new Mab then, since Mab proved unable to live up to expectations.

[x] BronzeTongue

Since it seems to be the only one to have a plan with unbound Eschaton in it.
 
[X] Plan Courtly ways

I will consider a vote for Eschaton plans, but that depends on final versions.

Edit:
[X] Plan Unbound Empress

I like this plan except the Appearance, but that is easily solved. Like both Eschaton designs, leaning towards Yog for now.
 
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[X] Plan Sorcery Maxing
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[X] Alchemy 5 12 XP
--[X] Mana Manipulation 3 13 XP
--[X] Intelligence 5 1 XP
--[X] Wits 4 1 XP
--[X] Perception 4 1 XP
--[X] Manipulation 4 1 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

[X] Plan Ancient Magic
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[X] Pentacle And Scepter 16 XP
--[X] The Trees Many Branches 10 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

[X] Plan Minion Maxing
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[X] False Springs Beckon 9 XP
--[X] Mana Maggot Plague 8 XP
--[X] Cleansed Maggot Formula 4 XP
--[X] Fathomless Poison Haven 8 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP,
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

[X] Plan Clone Maxing
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
--[X] Law 3 7 XP
--[X] Charisma 4 1 XP
--[X] Appearance 3 1 XP
--[X] Manipulation 4 1 XP
--[X] Intelligence 5 1XP
--[X] Perception 4 1XP
--[X] Wits 4 1 XP
--[X] Leadership 5 7 XP
--[X] Politics 3 7 XP
--[X] Academics 2 2 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP

[X] Plan Murder Maxing
-[X] Molly, 27 XP spent 2 Banked
--[X] Who Strikes The Wind 12 XP
--[X] Ablation Of Brass and Fire 12 XP
--[X] Ox-Body 3 XP
-[X] Lydia, 7 XP
--[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 3, 1 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 7 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Perception 4, 1 XP
-[X] Olivia, 7 XP, 1 banked
--[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Manipulation 2, 1 XP
 
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Nyarky said:
It's not a closed lake, so we weren't actually forced to stop at its shoreline. We could have used any river coming from or to the lake to get farther away in about the same time as Sophia took, so the problem really wasn't speed but the fact that we didn't want to use our water charm in front of Alfred.

Also, doubling our speed wouldn't have helped if you are that sure that Alfred would have identified us if we had only ran from the shoreline, since, as you say yourself his supposed range is apparently covering a good part of the town.

Which once again mean that the aspect you want to buy was completely and utterly worthless for one of the situation were you say it would've helped. It wouldn't have allowed us to get far enough away without a charm we already have, it wouldn't have changed how said charm would have helped us, and it doesn't change the fact that the main factor in our decision wasn't related to our speed.
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1) As far as Im aware, its a closed lake for the purposes of RVD.
Lake Michigan has locks at Sault Ste Marie and Detroit.
The Chicago River has locks as well.

The argument wasnt about the use of RVD, it was about speed, and getting away from the shoreline fast enough without outing ourselves as an Infernal.


2) Yes it would, since our goal was to get either deep enough into Chicago so he couldnt pick us out from the population if it was at all possible, something that the QM made us pessimistic about.
Or behind wards so he couldnt feel us, which was the ultimate decision.


3) I was here at the time.
I participated in that vote, and I think I even made the winning proposal to reveal Sophia's teleportation.
The main factor in our decision was very much our speed. Or lack of it.

Like I've said previously, we are maybe 3x the speed of an Olympic sprinter.
We're fast. We're not that fast.
 
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uju32 said:
1) Gossamer is not one of the Six. It has no especial significance in Exalted crafting.
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What no, Gossamer is the most powerful exalted crafting item. Because Gossamer can become anything, even the magical materials. It better then even Ambrose which can only become a magical material if it was Ambrose specifically dedicate to its patron being. IE Jade can only be made from Ambrosa made from prayers to an elemental Dragon, Moonsliver only Ambrose formed from prayers to Luna can be used to make it. Gossamer has no such restrictions, their a reason Exalted would trade with the Raksha for it.
 
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uju32 said:
Like I've said previously, we are maybe 3x the speed of an Olympic sprinter.
We're fast. We're not that fast.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Uju....

You know that in that case making it 6 times isn't enough, right? If we need to cross thousand of yards in two seconds to both be able to escape Alfred senses and help Harry in time, doubling our speed doesn't do that.

You still haven't explained how it was supposed to help given that.
 
[X] Plan Unbound Empress
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[X] Unbound Eschaton Shintai, 20 XP
—[X] Five Paths One Ring, 4 XP
—[X] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[X] Appearance 3 1 XP
—[X] Manipulation 4 1 XP
—[X] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[X] Perception 4 1XP
-[X] Lydia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
-[X] Olivia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3

[X] Plan Teething Pains
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[X] Digesting the Great Beast, 16 XP
—[X] Five Paths One Ring, 4 XP
—[X] Running to Forever, 4 XP
—[X] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[X] Appearance 3 1 XP
—[X] Manipulation 4 1 XP
—[X] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[X] Perception 4 1XP
-[X] Lydia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
-[X] Olivia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3

[X] Plan Evil Eye
-[X] Molly, 29 XP spent
—[X] Endless Torment Emanation, 12 XP
—[X] Sinner Boiling Stare, 12 XP
—[X] Charisma 4 1 XP
—[X] Appearance 3 1 XP
—[X] Manipulation 4 1 XP
—[X] Intelligence 5 1XP
—[X] Perception 4 1XP
-[X] Lydia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Ox Body, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
-[X] Tiffany, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
-[X] Olivia, 6 XP, 1 banked
—[X] Counterspell: Vampire, 3 XP
—[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3
Nyarky said:
Since it seems to be the only one to have a plan with unbound Eschaton in it
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Fair warning: I'm approval voting all three of my proposals and only one has UE.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
What no, Gossamer is the most powerful exalted crafting item. Because Gossamer can become anything, even the magical materials. It better then even Ambrose which can only become a magical material if it was Ambrose specifically dedicate to its patron being. IE Jade can only be made from Ambrosa made from prayers to an elemental Dragon, Moonsliver only Ambrose formed from prayers to Luna can be used to make it. Gossamer has no such restrictions, their a reason Exalted would trade with the Raksha for it.
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No you are mistaken.

Gossamer cannot become the magical materials.
It can be used to make normal materials, and high quality versions of normal items, but it cannot be turned into any of the magical materials, or anything made with an MM. Its value is in its malleability.

Ambrosia comes from prayer, and can be turned into anything, including most of the magical materials.
Except for starmetal and I think orichalcum/moonsilver.
 
uju32 said:
1) Gossamer is not one of the Six. It has no especial significance in Exalted crafting.

2) This is ExWoD, not Exalted 2E.
Exalted did not require that you melt down the body parts of supernatural beings to make shit, or that you needed Dragons Nests or manses to make stuff. The rules are not the same.

If high-end alchemical products arent reagents for Exalted crafting, Orichalcum is unlikely to count as one either.
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Gossamer is the raksha magical resource. It is the fuel for their charms that makes them real.
GOSSAMER
When a raksha performs shaping actions in the
Wyld, his manipulation of the malleable surface of
reality yields a byproduct of scraps of dreams and
ideas. This byproduct is known as gossamer, and it
is an infinitely useful substance. From it, a raksha
crafts the items with which he girds and arms himself
in Creation as well as the items of material worth
that he exchanges with willing Creation-born trad-
ers for that which he values. Gossamer items are
not exactly real, however, and have little effect on
or against those with the strength of personality to
deny their reality. In most circumstances, though,
the substance lends a certain credibility to raksha
magic. By channeling it when they perform select
Charms, raksha can make substantial certain magi-
cal effects in Creation that would not be possible
without it.
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GOSSAMER
The Fair Folk care nothing for the gaudy diamonds and
vulgar gold so beloved by the Creation-born. The currency
of the raksha lies in gossamer, the stuff of crystallized dreams
and congealed chaos. Both the fuel for many raksha Charms
and a potent shaping weapon in its own right, gossamer is the
only wealth the Fair Folk covet. A raksha can acquire this
precious substance from several sources. The raksha might
have access to a place in the Wyld where it naturally accrues.
She might have the loyalty of several Workers who tithe it
to her. She might have access to mortals with particularly
vivid dreams.
Each dot of the Gossamer Background translates into an
amount of gossamer the character receives at the start of each
story. Since it is trivially easy for a raksha to forge gossamer
into other materials valued by the Creation-born, each level
of the Background also translates into an effective Resources
rating for use in Creation. Finally, the shaping weapons of
the raksha each have a gossamer cost. A raksha can afford
any shaping weapon she desires if her Gossamer rating is at
least one dot higher than the weapon's cost. If the item is
an exceptional one, add one to its gossamer cost. If the item
is perfect, add two to its gossamer cost. A raksha character
cannot begin the game with more than one item of superior
equipment per dot of Gossamer, even if she might be able to
afford more. (For more information on superior equipment,
see p. 365 of Exalted.)
description of the Assumption and Mutation keywords on
page 153. A character with no points in this Background
cannot begin play in Creation, as she cannot afford the cost
to activate an Assumption Charm.
The Gossamer Background does not include gossamer
acquired during the story through Charms, trade or other
means.
X None. You have no source of gossamer beyond
what wits and hard work can win for you during
the story.
• You begin each story with one extra gossamer.
You have Resources ••• in Creation. Mortals
envy your extravagant wealth, but your raksha
peers dismiss you for your poverty. For games set
in Creation, you are limited to a single Assump-
tion Charm at start.
•• You begin each story with three extra gossamer.
You have Resources •••• in Creation. You can
provide magical raiment for your minions and
live like a king among the Creation-born. In the
Middlemarches, this is the minimum respectable
wealth rating. For games set in Creation, your total
starting Assumption and Mutation Charms cannot
require more than three gossamer.
••• You begin each story with six extra gossamer. You
have Resources ••••• in Creation. You can bribe
nobles to your cause or exercise great control over
raksha politics. If starting in Creation, your shape
is a formidable one, starting with Assumption and
Mutation Charms that cost up to six gossamer.
•••• You begin each story with 10 extra gossamer. You
have Resources ••••• in Creation and can make
up to three Resources ••••• purchases per story
without diminishing your rating. You are wealthy
enough to purchase commoner Heart Graces out-
right. In Creation, you are an invader to be feared
and can begin with Assumption and Mutation
Charms that cost up to 10 gossamer.
••••• You begin each story with 20 extra gossamer. You
can make an unlimited number of Resources •••••
purchases, although the extravagance of your
lifestyle might attract unhealthy attention from
the Wyld Hunt or the Sidereal Exalted. You trade
mortal dreams with the ease of a peddler. You are a
terrifying beast of legend to the Creation-born and
can begin games set in Creation with Assumption
and Mutation Charms costing up to 20 gossamer.
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It's canon use is to give permanence/substance to raksha charms in Creation. Splendors are materialized charms / Ancient Sorcery. Of course gossamer can be used for splendor making.
 
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