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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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For people voting for the Junta option, you do realize it involves effectively placing the ships made on those shipyards to under Junta control? This also gives them access to the Jump Drive tech, which we explicitly did not want to give them previously?

I am not fully opposed to this course of action, but it feels like a massive extension of trust and a total reversal of the cautiosness we have had when dealing with the Junta so far.
 
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Maxin_inc said:
Either way I think our senior staff should still be primarily Home-born so we can be assured of... crisis loyalty. These S'Taxite crewed ships probably should spend most of their patrol time outside of S'Taxu as well.
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Yeah, it's an important point. I feel I can put an X onto the 'attempt both, settle for the safe option'. If there is a better way to achieve this result, I'm willing to switch.

[X] Plan Negotiate with Both
-[X] The Dynasts 1,000 tons and a permanent station.
--[X] In addition offer the permanent stationing of an Interstellar Monitor in S'taxu, once it is built.
-[X] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
--[X] Negotiate either for officers and guards to be HSWS or inducting S'taxian sailors into HSWS and putting them through our training and screening process. HSWS is OK with accepting lesser yard space commitment from the Junta, but there must be uniform chain of command.
-[X] Negotiate to harmonize both offers. If the Dynast and Junta position turn out to be mutually exclusive, lean towards the Dynasts.
 
[X] Plan Negotiate with Both
-[X] The Dynasts 1,000 tons and a permanent station.
--[X] In addition offer the permanent stationing of an Interstellar Monitor in S'taxu, once it is built.
-[X] The Junta's 4,000 tons and combined fleet.
--[X] Negotiate either for officers and guards to be HSWS or inducting S'taxian sailors into HSWS and putting them through our training and screening process. HSWS is OK with accepting lesser yard space commitment from the Junta, but there must be uniform chain of command.
-[X] Negotiate to harmonize both offers. If the Dynast and Junta position turn out to be mutually exclusive, lean towards the Dynasts.
 
Pinniped said:
For people voting for the Junta option, you do realize it involves effectively placing the ships made on those shipyards to under Junta control? This also gives them access to the Jump Drive tech, which we explicitly did not want to give them previously?

I am not fully opposed to this course of action, but it feels like a massive extension of trust and a total reversal of the cautiosness we have had when dealing with the Junta so far.
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didn't they use jump drives to return POWs earlier in the quest?
 
Artificial Girl said:
didn't they use jump drives to return POWs earlier in the quest?
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Yes, but there is an agreement that they won't built more unless everyone in the system agrees to it.
Rat King said:
We can't have our cake AND eat it.
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Indeed, we can't. But, the more I think about it, if we're chosing just one faction, it can't be the Junta. Notice the diplomatic clause I've mentioned above and notice what was said in the update:
4WheelSword said:
There is brief panic when the Chambrestrong Dynasty is informed and they consider retaking control over the nuclear orbitals from the current shared capability agreement. However, they are reassured of the continued presence of the Interstellar Cruiser in their orbits and that Home will not abandon an ally.
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Magnificate said:
Yes, but there is an agreement that they won't built more unless everyone in the system agrees to it.

Indeed, we can't. But, the more I think about it, if we're chosing just one faction, it can't be the Junta. Notice the diplomatic clause I've mentioned above and notice what was said in the update:
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Maybe it's time to change allies. If the Junta can give us more yardspace and better supports our defense needs, then they should become the top priority for us.
 
Ok so two things; 1) The Junta option is NOT crewed entirely by Junta personnel. It's a mixture of all S'Taxu nations' people. 2) what is stopping us from using S'Taxu crewed ships away from S'Taxu/as minority components of squadrons? Seriously, there is NOTHING stating we need to let S'Taxu crewed ships stay in S'Taxu.
 
[X] OPLAN: Reunion Sortie
-[X] Write-in: Combine the Junta and Dynast proposals into one, forming two new "task forces". One will be composed of the new station, existing Dynast orbital defenses, and the newly-built System Defense Corvettes (the "S'taxu Boats") and the other of the Junta's recruited personnel and their attendant fleet. These vessels will be S'taxi built and S'taxi crewed, but answerable to the Service' command structure and its codes of military justice. Additionally, one HSWS ship will be stationed alongside any two Dynast and Junta ships whenever they are co-deployed for peacekeeping purposes.

Our office's proposal, whilst daring, represents perhaps our best possible chance for a permanent peace in the S'taxu volume, and possibly even the creation of a larger polity combining the governments of our two systems. First, the Service should agree to the standards set for each offer from the Dynast and Council factions, not to pit one against the other, but to show our good-faith belief that both sides of the conflict are and remain valued allies to Home and her People. Should both factions consent, we will form the starcraft and bases offered in their negotiations into a pair of new task forces under direct control of the Warfare Service, one assigned to the orbital defense of S'taxu, centered around the existing orbital defense stations in-system, and the other part of our broader patrol and exploration missions throughout the newly-discovered regions around both our worlds, including Xyri and Nova Refugio. All S'taxi forces seconded to Home will be within the SWS command structure and codes of military justice, in order to prevent any accusations of favoritism or individual infighting betwixt members of the new forces from different polities. However, all squadrons and crews within these new units will remain commanded by their own officers and NCOs-we are not so barbaric as to convert our allies' prized soldiers into suspicion-laden conscripts, commanded and led by strangers. Most crucially, in any situation where the Dynast and Council task forces are deployed together, a craft from our Service will act as an interlocutor, so as to keep any tensions to a minimum. With luck, this mediated cooperation in the common cause of national defense will steadily break down the barriers of animosity between the S'taxi people, forming a functional and durable peace that will lead to only closer alliances between Home and her neighbors to the West.
 
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Artificial Girl said:
Maybe it's time to change allies. If the Junta can give us more yardspace and better supports our defense needs, then they should become the top priority for us.
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It's possible, but it's going to be opposed by the Civilian Council, plus it would paint as unreliable. If we changed sides once, why wouldn't we do it again? If it then turns out the Hermosa is dangerous than Nova Refugio says, we'll be painted as liars.
WallFly said:
1) The Junta option is NOT crewed entirely by Junta personnel. It's a mixture of all S'Taxu nations' people. 2) what is stopping us from using S'Taxu crewed ships away from S'Taxu/as minority components of squadrons? Seriously, there is NOTHING stating we need to let S'Taxu crewed ships stay in S'Taxu.
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1) How does it make it better? These factions are allies against the Dynasts and have similar goals.
2) Sure, but if the ship mutinies it can just go back to S'taxu. The 'Just Junta' option ought to include some provisions to prevent that.
 
4WheelSword said:
No, it's literally "take some people and some yard space and add ships to your navy, on the unspoken understanding that you will want to protect a chunk of yardspace"
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Excellent. Glad to see someone in S'Taxu knows how to make a good offer after all.
Magnificate said:
The Dynasts trust us more, so it makes sense to favour them more
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No? Our decisions about who to favor should be based on what they have to offer us and what we stand to lose by slighting them. The Dynasts have proven less than impressive at deal-making and, especially once we have defensive ships in S'Taxu, the worst thing they can realistically achieve is making us shoot down the orbital nuke platforms. That they "trust" us (to do their dirty work in exchange for peanuts) is irrelevant at best.

[X] Plan: Just Junta
 
I consider crewing the ships with non Homies a positive? Means that we have a more wide recruitment pool and establishes an international component to our interstellar operations
 
Coyote Niff said:
[X] OPLAN: Reunion Sortie
-[X] Write-in: Combine the Junta and Dynast proposals into one, forming two new "task forces". One will be composed of the new station, existing Dynast orbital defenses, and the newly-built System Defense Corvettes (the "S'taxu Boats") and the other of the Junta's recruited personnel and their attendant fleet. These vessels will be S'taxi built and S'taxi crewed, but answerable to the Service' command structure and its codes of military justice. Additionally, one HSWS ship will be stationed alongside any two Dynast and Junta ships whenever they are co-deployed for peacekeeping purposes.
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That's an interesting way to solve it, but I don't understand how can the station and the existing orbital defenses be considered a taskforce if it can't be deployed outside the system? In addition, the Junta outproduces the Dynasts, how will you ensure that there's equal number of ships from both sides available to sortie?
 
Magnificate said:
1) How does it make it better? These factions are allies against the Dynasts and have similar goals.
2) Sure, but if the ship mutinies it can just go back to S'taxu. The 'Just Junta' option ought to include some provisions to prevent that.
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1) All of S'Taxu includes the Dynasts
2) Then go with the option that puts command positions as Home officers. Like sure, they can attempt to pull a mutiny, but if they don't have the star charts, nav data, whatever critical information is needed to jump, they go nowhere.
 
Maxin_inc said:
I think any plan should include the clause that all senior officers and security staff on these S'Taxu crewed ships should be Homians. At least at first.
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"Homians" is such an ugly word. Lets go with "Hominids"

[X] Plan Negotiate with Both


Also future S'Taxian pilots should be officially designated as "S'Taxi drivers"
 
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WallFly said:
1) All of S'Taxu includes the Dynasts
2) Then go with the option that puts command positions as Home officers. Like sure, they can attempt to pull a mutiny, but if they don't have the star charts, nav data, whatever critical information is needed to jump, they go nowhere.
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1) No, in the update their offer specifically mentions 'crewed by local sailors - a mixture of Junta, Xyphon and Cassalon citizens', not the Dynasts.
2) That would be one way to do it, but it's not part of the current 'Just Junta' plan.
 
Magnificate said:
1) No, in the update their offer specifically mentions 'crewed by local sailors - a mixture of Junta, Xyphon and Cassalon citizens', not the Dynasts.
2) That would be one way to do it, but it's not part of the current 'Just Junta' plan.
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1)Thought Cassalon was Dyanst. My bad.
2)I am personally fine with extending the trust. If you aren't, then make a write-in specifying the officers are Home-grown.
 
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