Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

How is sanctuary-transmuted gold (for the sake of argument let's say this is possible) better than sanctuary mined gold?

If it was something other than gold isotope mix would matter. It will be something to keep in mind if we sell uranium or something. Isotope mix for materials is a fingerprint to origin.

But gold has one naturally occuring isotope and so all gold is 100% that gold, with all other gold isotopes being radioactive and unstable.
 
How is sanctuary-transmuted gold (for the sake of argument let's say this is possible) better than sanctuary mined gold?
Sanctuary transmuted gold is supposed to be originally bismuth of Earth origin, taken to Sanctuary, processed/transmuted, and returned to the precious metal markets of Earth.
Sanctuary mined gold is a chunk of Sanctuary itself, mined from the domain thats linked to Molly's soul.

The first has only transient magical connection/association to Sanctuary.

The second seems to be a candidate for an arcane focus for ritual magic, at least when accumulated in sufficient quanity.
And we are playing against serious magical players here.
I'd rather not test it.

If it was something other than gold isotope mix would matter. It will be something to keep in mind if we sell uranium or something. Isotope mix for materials is a fingerprint to origin.

But gold has one naturally occuring isotope and so all gold is 100% that gold, with all other gold isotopes being radioactive and unstable.
We could simply buy uranium ore on the market and produce high-quality uranium isotopes. Easily.
I did the math some time ago.

Yellowcake uranium is roughly ~$80 a ton in 2024. Meanwhile 93% enriched uranium metal(93% U-235) was roughly $4.9 million a ton kilogram in 2023 according to the US Department of Energy, which sells very small quantities of these things to universities and laboratories. 94% Pu-239, from neutron irradiation of U-238, is roughly $11 million a ton kilogram.

Fissiles are easy.
But again, this is the kind of thing that draws serious attention from very serious people doing an honest job.
Unwelcome attention, for someone in our line of work.

Money has never been the issue. Getting it without drawing the wrong sort of attention is the problem.
 
Last edited:
[X]Plan Express Mail Chicago
-[X][Sophia] Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Grab field sorcerer's kit from Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to boat
-[X][Molly]Activate MHM to move ritual items to the island: 1m
-[X][Molly]Activate All Things Betray: 1WP
 
I think we're getting caught on a pointless argument here. Whether transmuting gold is viable or not it's certainly easier for us to get money in all kinds of other ways.

The lottery is the easiest, but since the gold/precious metal stuff requires faking a bunch of paperwork to make work anyway it's not really that simpler than nearly any other sort of business we could do.

Even something like trying to sell Uncle Sam export grade alchemical armor plates through the library would be less of a pain than trying to siphon tens of millions from the commodities markets without getting caught.

If you want mass quantities of Fissiles just suspend the strong/weak nuclear force with magic for bit and it will naturally form.
That seems like a bit of an ask. It's probably something magic can do here, but envisioning the concepts properly and implementing them in a way that doesn't cause the target to explode or something seems like it should be hard.
 
Do you know how many atoms are in one gram of gold? Honest question. The technology also doesn't scale directly with power put in. We have been over this. Do I need to break it down again? TTC can give us 10X rate of the best equipment Earth has. That is nowhere near what is required for this to be feasible.

The molar mass of gold is 196,96657 g/mol. The Avogadro number is 6.02214076 X 1023​.

So in 196,96657 grams of gold there is 6.02214076 X 1023​ atoms of gold.

As such in a single gram of gold the number of atoms would be: 6.02214076 X 1023​/196,96657 = 3.05744308 X 1021​

Now that isn't the actual problem with this or any other transmutation of gold. The actual problem would be calculating the specific lux/irradiance conversion for the spectral composition of the particle mix used to turn bismuth into gold for the specific density of the volume and shape of the sample of bismuth used.

Or in plain language you are never getting pure gold out of that process on an industrial scale because the particles used to turn bismuth into gold will also turn some of that gold into something else.

Might as well use a morphic resonator for that instead. It would be at least cheaper.
 
The molar mass of gold is 196,96657 g/mol. The Avogadro number is 6.02214076 X 1023​.

So in 196,96657 grams of gold there is 6.02214076 X 1023​ atoms of gold.

As such in a single gram of gold the number of atoms would be: 6.02214076 X 1023​/196,96657 = 3.05744308 X 1021​

Now that isn't the actual problem with this or any other transmutation of gold. The actual problem would be calculating the specific lux/irradiance conversion for the spectral composition of the particle mix used to turn bismuth into gold for the specific density of the volume and shape of the sample of bismuth used.

Or in plain language you are never getting pure gold out of that process on an industrial scale because the particles used to turn bismuth into gold will also turn some of that gold into something else.

Might as well use a morphic resonator for that instead. It would be at least cheaper.
Yeah, there are tons of issues with the process as proposed, from never getting the correct output (because gold itself also has nuclear reactions with bombarding particles), to fundamentally not being able to increase bombarding particle flux due to target overheating, to hard radiation being generated (and no, "charms are safe" wouldn't cover this, no more than "charms are safe" means that we are automatically immune to all poisons we brew using TTC) to tons of other problems.
Sanctuary transmuted gold is supposed to be originally bismuth of Earth origin, taken to Sanctuary, processed/transmuted, and returned to the precious metal markets of Earth.
Sanctuary mined gold is a chunk of Sanctuary itself, mined from the domain thats linked to Molly's soul.

The first has only transient magical connection/association to Sanctuary.

The second seems to be a candidate for an arcane focus for ritual magic, at least when accumulated in sufficient quanity.
And we are playing against serious magical players here.
I'd rather not test it.
Both would be arcane foci for rituals, and I would argue both would be fairly sh*ttu ones. MIned gold due to how long it sat there. Processed gold due to how much intent is involved in its making. It would have to be a focus of dedicated technomagical rituals with a lot of effort. Focused effort always "weights" more than just being there.
 
If you want mass quantities of Fissiles just suspend the strong/weak nuclear force with magic for bit and it will naturally form.
I cant even begin to figure out how to do that in a lab without Dramatically Exothermic Consequences, let alone industrially.
And Im pretty sure that Molly does not currently have the magic expertise to do so.
Some of her minions/citizens might if its doable, but she does not.

I think we're getting caught on a pointless argument here. Whether transmuting gold is viable or not it's certainly easier for us to get money in all kinds of other ways.

The lottery is the easiest, but since the gold/precious metal stuff requires faking a bunch of paperwork to make work anyway it's not really that simpler than nearly any other sort of business we could do.

Even something like trying to sell Uncle Sam export grade alchemical armor plates through the library would be less of a pain than trying to siphon tens of millions from the commodities markets without getting caught.
I agree.
Gold and precious metals is primarily about the supernatural economy. For those places where you arent trading favors or services but currency, with a sideline in payment for deniable services in the criminal underworld.

In the Bigfoot stories, River Shoulders paid Dresden in gold.
In Even Hand, Marcone paid the weirgeld for the death of Fomori Cantrev-Lord Mags in gold. In Skin Game, Harry paid the weirgeld for the death of one of Marcone's people in diamonds.

Some supernaturals will take mundane cash; Kincaid, for example, was paid for the Mavra affair by Swiss bank transfer IIRC.
And Goodman Grey collects $1. In cash.
Many wont, or will at best collect stuff that you have to buy yourself; Toot-Toot and pizza, for example.


The molar mass of gold is 196,96657 g/mol. The Avogadro number is 6.02214076 X 1023​.

So in 196,96657 grams of gold there is 6.02214076 X 1023​ atoms of gold.

As such in a single gram of gold the number of atoms would be: 6.02214076 X 1023​/196,96657 = 3.05744308 X 1021​

Now that isn't the actual problem with this or any other transmutation of gold. The actual problem would be calculating the specific lux/irradiance conversion for the spectral composition of the particle mix used to turn bismuth into gold for the specific density of the volume and shape of the sample of bismuth used.

Or in plain language you are never getting pure gold out of that process on an industrial scale because the particles used to turn bismuth into gold will also turn some of that gold into something else.
Might as well use a morphic resonator for that instead. It would be at least cheaper.
1) Thats covered by the fact that its being done by a Craft-specced Exalt with a Craft Excellency using a bullshit magic charm, and backed by a team of Fortune Path ritualists.

Note how the garage where Molly dumped kilowatts of electric power to make her first diamonds via BARS apparatuses did not require special cooling to deal with the waste heat because she's magically efficient, or how she did molecular-scale alignment of iron and carbon molecules by hand when making her armor shirt.


2) Morphic resonators belong to Minecraft mods like Thaumcraft.
No such thing in WoD, Exalted or the Dresden Files
/pedant
Gold is a waste of time anyway a Graphene production factory, and our own CPU and GPU production, other tech products that everybody wants are where the real money is.
Building computer chip fabs is a literally multi-billion dollar investment involving tens of thousands of people, multiple governments and financial institutions, and geopolitical considerations. Ask TSMC, or Intel, or Samsung.
We wouldnt be having this discussion if we had the 10- and 11-figure sums necessary to even start.

There is no market for industrial quantities of graphene, never mind that being another multi-billion dollar project in its own right.
Lots of potential applications.
No actual market for it.

Both would be arcane foci for rituals, and I would argue both would be fairly sh*ttu ones. MIned gold due to how long it sat there. Processed gold due to how much intent is involved in its making. It would have to be a focus of dedicated technomagical rituals with a lot of effort. Focused effort always "weights" more than just being there.
I only partly agree.

The bismuth-derived gold would be a foci for its origins on Earth; the Sanctuary gold would be pointing at its origins on Sanctuary. The associations would be different, especially since the Sanctuary gold comes with the added complication of being mined from a domain thats linked to Molly's soul.

And while it might be a shitty focus for a young wizard like Harry, our enemies list currently includes heavyweights on the order of Great Walkers and Yama Kings who are significantly more capable and/or better resourced.
I very much consider it a bad idea to test this.
 
Last edited:
1) Thats covered by the fact that its being done by a Craft-specced Exalt with a Craft Excellency using a bullshit magic charm, and backed by a team of Fortune Path ritualists.

Note how the garage where Molly dumped kilowatts of electric power to make her first diamonds via BARS apparatuses did not require special cooling to deal with the waste heat because she's magically efficient, or how she did molecular-scale alignment of iron and carbon molecules by hand when making her armor shirt.
This. Is. Not. A. Matter. Of. Power. Repeat after me: This is not a matter of power. Designing a particle accelerator with a higher particle flux is not a matter of dumping more power into it. It's a far more complex process. Because particle accelerator engineering is a complex thing. TTC gives us 10X the best tool that exists. This requires 1E7 the best tool that exists. We are a million times too low for that.

Do I seriously need to roll out "how particle accelerator engineering works 101?". This is not my specialty. I don't want to dig into that too. I only know it tangentially, because ion sources are plasma physics, and our department was asked to help designing new one for Dubna relatively recently.
I only partly agree.

The bismuth-derived gold would be a foci for its origins on Earth; the Sanctuary gold would be pointing at its origins on Sanctuary. The associations would be different, especially since the Sanctuary gold comes with the added complication of being mined from a domain thats linked to Molly's soul.

And while it might be a shitty focus for a young wizard like Harry, our enemies list currently includes heavyweights on the order of Great Walkers and Yama Kings who are significantly more capable and/or better resourced.
I very much consider it a bad idea to test this.
No, I disagree completely. Gold, even if it could be created in such a way (hint, it can't, not in a practical sense), would be created in Sanctuary, via sanctuary effort.
 
This. Is. Not. A. Matter. Of. Power. Repeat after me: This is not a matter of power. Designing a particle accelerator with a higher particle flux is not a matter of dumping more power into it. It's a far more complex process. Because particle accelerator engineering is a complex thing. TTC gives us 10X the best tool that exists. This requires 1E7 the best tool that exists. We are a million times too low for that.

Do I seriously need to roll out "how particle accelerator engineering works 101?". This is not my specialty. I don't want to dig into that too. I only know it tangentially, because ion sources are plasma physics, and our department was asked to help designing new one for Dubna relatively recently.
Read what I wrote again. Slowly.

I referred to efficiency, NOT more power. Where, instead of say, 1 in a million events occur per second, you have one in a thousand, or one in ten. When you have magic fuckery to make a process magically efficient, yet more magic to tweak probability, and are running on free electricity, you arent dealing with the normal physical constraints.

Also an option?
Would be attempting to run multiple installations in parallel, the way we ran multiple BARS apparatuses when we were making diamonds.
No, I disagree completely. Gold, even if it could be created in such a way (hint, it can't, not in a practical sense), would be created in Sanctuary, via sanctuary effort.
One:
Gold manufacture isnt practical for economic reasons. It doesnt make sense to build, maintain or operate a particle accelerator to make gold. Those things stop being a factor when you can magik up the hardware automatically, your power is free, and you can magically tinker with efficiency and probability.

Given the current state of our knowledge of physics, this wouldnt be practical without Tool Constructs or some similar ability.
But we do have Tool Constructs. Hence its practical.
Not the highest yield activity, but one of those thats easier to obfuscate.


Two:
Disagree. The Bismuth-gold is not created, its transmuted. Changed.
Its not literally mined out of a chunk of the Hell that her soul and Exaltation are magically bound to.
 
Last edited:
One:
Gold manufacture isnt practical for economic reasons. It doesnt make sense to build, maintain or operate a particle accelerator to make gold. Those things stop being a factor when you can magik up the hardware automatically, your power is free, and you can magically tinker with efficiency and probability.
But you cannot magic the equipment for free. You can create "best available equipment X10" with TTC. You need "best available equipment X10 million". That's not happening, in the same way we can't TTC a Culture Mind hardware.

You propose bridging the gap with path of Fortune magic to increase the odds of desirable effect happening a million fold. That's also not happening. Not without grand magic rituals. Because if you can adjust odds a million times in your favor on a consistent basis? That's how you get your whole civilizations be dragonblooded at least.

Essentially, if your stuff works, than we can guarantee that Daniel exalts as a solar. Because you are arguing that Path of Fortune can reliably make someone roll 10 on a D10 6 times in a row. That's what you are arguing.
Two:
Disagree. The Bismuth-gold is not created, its transmuted. Changed.
Its not literally mined out of a chunk of the Hell that her soul and Exaltation are magically bound to.
Define a meaningful difference between creation and transmutation, all creation since the very beginning when Divine Ignition was greeted by Oramus is transmutation of Essence. The act of transmitting something by infusing it with your magic and intent is far more personal, purposeful and thus strong in the Arcane sense than the act of mining what's already there. It's the act of claiming, purposeful establishment of a claim on what something is.
 
2) Morphic resonators belong to Minecraft mods like Thaumcraft.
No such thing in WoD, Exalted or the Dresden Files
/pedant

Morphic resonance is at least the cause of the techbane effect Wizards have in Dresden Files, the various Vampire Bloodlines in WoD, Malkavians especially, and some Sidereal bullshit in Exalted.

Just because the concept itself isn't named in a story doesn't mean it isn't used in a story. #choirpedantic
 
There is no market for industrial quantities of graphene, never mind that being another multi-billion dollar project in its own right.
Lots of potential applications.
No actual market for it.
Custom shaped graphene at industrial quantities might actually be a good option. We'd have to make the market, but we also don't have to worry about someone learning magic exists just because we keep throwing the stuff around. It should be trivial to make for sorcerers because it's literally just rearranging carbon. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already a common base component in a lot of FCF products anyway.

Also some helpful secondary effects in making prepared humans tougher. Graphene armor plates are the sort of thing to make it difficult for a red vamp to gut you without weighing you down so much it's not practical to wear.

We're not legally obligated to tell anyone anything about how our production works either. The trick would be making our systems look vaguely viable for operation at scale.
 
I'm going to need a few more votes on this guys.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 5, 2024 at 8:21 AM, finished with 54 posts and 3 votes.

  • [X]Plan Express Mail Chicago
    -[X][Sophia] Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to Sanctuary.
    -[X][Sophia]Grab field sorcerer's kit from Sanctuary.
    -[X][Sophia]Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to boat
    -[X][Molly]Activate MHM to move ritual items to the island: 1m
    -[X][Molly]Activate All Things Betray: 1WP
 
[X]Plan Express Mail Chicago
-[X][Sophia] Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Grab field sorcerer's kit from Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to boat
-[X][Molly]Activate MHM to move ritual items to the island: 1m
-[X][Molly]Activate All Things Betray: 1WP
 
Honestly if we want lots of money without the headache of hiding it all ourselves business with the supernatural is probably the easiest option. People like the white council are already on the inside with mortal money and we don't need to hide as much.

I'm personally not that worried about people backtracking reagents unless they individually have some significant weight. Alchemical healing packs, reagents, and mundane but magically produced materials like our unpowered armor options are all great for them. What do you think the council would pay for a renewable supply of magical field healing? They can get it other places, but it's an inconsistent hodgepodge of cottage industry products that adds up to a logistical nightmare. Being able to reliably purchase consistent quality goods at wholesale quantities is almost miraculous by comparison.

Armor, medicine, and weapons to the council and its allies would be profitable and good for mortal world. I'm sure they'd be happy to take a discount in exchange for helping us get some basic financial mechanisms going.
 
Honestly if we want lots of money without the headache of hiding it all ourselves business with the supernatural is probably the easiest option. People like the white council are already on the inside with mortal money and we don't need to hide as much.

I'm personally not that worried about people backtracking reagents unless they individually have some significant weight. Alchemical healing packs, reagents, and mundane but magically produced materials like our unpowered armor options are all great for them. What do you think the council would pay for a renewable supply of magical field healing? They can get it other places, but it's an inconsistent hodgepodge of cottage industry products that adds up to a logistical nightmare. Being able to reliably purchase consistent quality goods at wholesale quantities is almost miraculous by comparison.

Armor, medicine, and weapons to the council and its allies would be profitable and good for mortal world. I'm sure they'd be happy to take a discount in exchange for helping us get some basic financial mechanisms going.
To be honest we already own a company called Chicago synthetics that primarily operates by generating a carbon-based product moving into graphene production would give us the ability to getting on the ground floor and to be honest expedite the popularity and circulation of graphene for the foreseeable future. The person who discovered graphene won a Nobel Prize just 6 years after it's discovery the numerous applications and general R&D budgets that would be devoted to getting high quality sheets or other configurations of graphene from Chicago synthetics would be a great way to make a lot of money without having to hide anything or mess with the supernatural or have to get any authorization from anyone.

This is before the fact Sanctuary might have blueprints or actual devices that are capable of full-on processing carbon byproduct or pure carbon into graphene sheets already and then we can just build those devices and then scale out from there but either way Molly is capable of making tons of graphene products either through the use of alchemy or do the use of devices that we are capable of creating.
 
[X]Plan Express Mail Chicago
-[X][Sophia] Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Grab field sorcerer's kit from Sanctuary.
-[X][Sophia]Use Home In All Lands to return to Last Station, and from Last Station to boat
-[X][Molly]Activate MHM to move ritual items to the island: 1m
-[X][Molly]Activate All Things Betray: 1WP
Honestly if we want lots of money without the headache of hiding it all ourselves business with the supernatural is probably the easiest option. People like the white council are already on the inside with mortal money and we don't need to hide as much.

I'm personally not that worried about people backtracking reagents unless they individually have some significant weight. Alchemical healing packs, reagents, and mundane but magically produced materials like our unpowered armor options are all great for them. What do you think the council would pay for a renewable supply of magical field healing? They can get it other places, but it's an inconsistent hodgepodge of cottage industry products that adds up to a logistical nightmare. Being able to reliably purchase consistent quality goods at wholesale quantities is almost miraculous by comparison.

Armor, medicine, and weapons to the council and its allies would be profitable and good for mortal world. I'm sure they'd be happy to take a discount in exchange for helping us get some basic financial mechanisms going.
Nanotube cabling. Win NASA Space Elevator Tether Competition. Get the contracts.
 
Arc 13 Post 53: Binding Utterance
Binding Utterance

14th of February 2007 A.D.

Not here, it might see..

The shore... No, it can still follow you even if it does not know and then it will know... the passage...

... get out of range... too far...


The plan forms in desperate haste, a swarm of scattered thoughts between you and Song of Perennial Hours Intrinsically Ascending, gathered because they must be, because there is no time.

The Station,
both of you think at once, never as glad to have claimed it as in that moment. Like a curtain spun from moonbeams, like a song when the singer finds a new flourish the world parts for her and she's gone much to Murphy's surprise though the others know enough to guess at least even before you shout to Harry to hang in there.

She's back inside an instant, drawing a curious look from the gnarled giant, though it does not seem hostile, only weary. Something tells you it might not have taken a more overt show of Essence as well. Hopefully this won't count... As the lead glass case, taken from some very surprised master spirit binder flies over the water you catch it with your mind only to send it skimming into Harry's arms.

Opening the case he reveals a set of instruments at once timeless and strange, a knife half of obsidian, half of silver, quick-strike matches wrapped cylinders of earth-shaker fat in place of candles, a compass that opens like a mechanical spider able to mark several interlocking circles.

"Come on, come on..."

The Sword of Love shines muted silver half raised as Harry Dresden tries to draw a circle in earth that shakes and smudges with every serpentine twitch of spirit-roots a pair of gulls burst from a hidden perch with raucous, hungry calls. Something large and heavy footed is hurling its way through the underbrush, you don't need sharpened senses for that, but the work is still agonizingly slow even as all the candles strike flame against a stone.

Harry uses 1 Willpower -> Now at 7/8

Harry doesn't get angry, he does not curse, he does not even sweat as he's trying to get the keratin spike on the bottom to deploy, but you can see him struggling and you know sure as your own name that the moment his will falters, the moment that circle ceases to serve as a proper focus, that thing is going judge him wanting.

Harry uses 1 Willpower -> Now at 6/8

Silver too shines the bell in the wizard's hand as he rings it once and calls to the thing that looms above even his height: "I am magi, one of the Wise, and I am worthy of your respect."

A wordless detonation is the only answer, if breath it be than it is the breath of a waiting hurricane. Yet through it again the bell rings, true and clear and for all the pain on his face none of it shows in his voice: "I am magi, one of the Wise, and I know your nature and your strength."

Harry takes 1 Bashing Damage -> Now at 7/8

This time the answer comes from the right along the shore: a boar hurls itself out of the thicket and there is no way, no way it could stop before the circle. Its sheer mass enough to skewer Harry and hurl him into the surf.

"Karin, no!" your father calls, not a shout, but a command just the same.

She lowers her gun... and the boar stops, in defiance of nature and physics right before the circle, for older Laws are now at play. The beast's breath makes the flame of the nearest to it waver, but there it stiffens again under Harry's will. His expression is calm again, serene. These are the laws in which wizards put their faith.

Harry uses 1 Willpower -> Now at 5/8

Slowly, with wordless solemn ceremony he takes the knife and turns it silver side, cutting a shallow groove into his palm even as the riot in his blood sends it gushing out as the spirit begins to walk towards him with tectonic inevitability.

Harry takes 2 Bashing Damage -> Now at 5/8

"[Tumult!]" The word is not spoken elegantly or eloquently, but it is undeniably spoken in no mortal tongue but in that which was before all of them, the ground shakes and the air whips into a storm about the giant, where some of Harry's blood had fallen water bursts free striking the spirit in the knee upon which it is hobbled. Just as the boar before it, the spirit stops without slowing, waiting.

"I am Harry Dresden, and I give thee a name, honored spirit. From this day on, be thou called Demonreach." The name echoes strangely upon a place that before had been unnamed, but not without the ring of truth. The spirit, Demonreach now, bows the topmost part of its avatar in an approximation of the bow Harry gives it before motioning towards the tower and sinking into the earth with a crack of stone.

"Come on over everyone," Harry calls, though he's not fooling anyone with the way he leans on the staff.

What do you do next?

[] Explore the island, looking for the missing grace

[] Head right to the tower as the spirit instructed

[] Harry attempts to call the spirit again to question it

[] Write in


OOC: This Harry does not have soul-fire. What he does have is a girlfriend who speaks Enochian. No one who knows him is likely to be surprised at the first word he learned in that language, though some may be given to heavy drinking regardless.
 
Last edited:
@DragonParadox don't mean to be pedantic but I noticed Dresden's Arete dice go down and it might be something you're doing for Dresden Files wizards specifically but Arete rolls in Mage are not affected by wound penalties.
 
Back
Top