The Junta does have the wreckage of the Heimdall, and some of its surviving crew, who are probably as we speak being grilled for information on how to reverse-engineer the Jump drives.
So. Just in case we needed that extra bit of paranoia.
Just because they operate and maintain it, doesn't mean they know how anything about how to build it. It would honestly be odd if they could, because people with that sort of knowledge frankly have better things to do with their time than being in the navy, actually operating it.
This is the fig leaf, we're offering humanitarian aid, getting our own dues in shipyard access, information and naval experience while also trying to broker good relations with every faction after our previous action of trying to force the council into declaring war on the Junta with little knowledge other than "We stumbled into an active warzone and paid for it so lets shoot first ask questions maybe" would make this look extremely moderate and safe by comparison.
If the council wants to play ball with us I say let's play ball, we're at the best position we can be in to negotiate greater authority given we have an unknown on one side of us and a partial unknown possessing similar capabilities, future jump drive potential and a greater military experience than ours.
I agree with BriefVoice, I don't think starting troubles with the council by actively trying to subvert their will so early is a good idea. Being pushed into war with so little information on the sides and odds is risky but it is even more risky to go heads-up with the people pulling strings at home since they have every reason to treat it as their primary focus. Jumping into a war just means we're another actor in a conflict that's already on-going.
That said, simply dragging our feet might be enough to accomplish the goal of not getting yanked all-in to support some losing faction while also only irritating the council with our overcaution, rather than alarming them with more provocative acts.
There's one part in Plan Sub Rosa that I'm not thrilled about, namely 'to take advantage of the current "Cold War" detente to hold ceasefire talks'. Why would we ever want to broker peace in S'taxu? These guys are more developed that we are, unlike Xyri it's possible for them to compete with us in terms of expanding our empire. There is no reason to be taking that risk.
Just because they operate and maintain it, doesn't mean they know how anything about how to build it. It would honestly be odd if they could, because people with that sort of knowledge frankly have better things to do with their time than being in the navy, actually operating it.
The more advanced the system, the less this holds true. Especially for what amounts to a production prototype. Now the crew won't know the exacts about material and measurement tolerances, but they can definitely comment on the theory.
@4WheelSword, do the Monarchists know/have they told us if the Junta has a set of construction docks/cradles?
[X] OPLAN: Sub Rosa
-[X] Food Aid
-[X] Military Aid
-[X] Write-in: Offer, as a "neutral" third party, to take advantage of the current "Cold War" detente to hold ceasefire talks, with food and military aid as a "carrot" for all sides.
-[X] Access to the yards
-[X] Write-in: as much information as possible via the Dynasts' military and civilian intel networks on all factions in the system, a sort of "World Factbook" of the war that we can use to plan our next moves.
-[X] Write-in: assistance in contacting the Junta and the Democratic faction planetside for negotiations regarding the loss of the Heimdall; we need our men and women back.
[X] Plan Hard Bargain
-[X] Offer: Station 3 Interstellar Cruisers in S'Taxu. On rotation.
-[X] Offer: Defensive Pact, with secret protocols allowing for coordinated assault on the Junta with more Interstellar Cruisers, with the possibility to retain the pact after the war.
-[X] Offer: Limited material or food assistance, due to our current cargo capacity. It could be expanded in the future.
-[X] Offer: Limited expertise and technological transfer to assist them with building their interplanetary warships.
-[X] Demand: Access to their Yards during the civil war, shares in their Yards after the civil war ends.
-[X] Demand: Basing rights and transit rights after the civil war ends.
-[X] Demand: Tonnage limitations on S'taxu fleets after the civil war ends.
-[X] Demand: Pilots transferred to Home's Navy.
-[X] Demand: Lucrative contracts for our business partners.
-[X] Demand: Access to intel and support in recovering potential Heimdall survivors from the Junta.
[X] Plan: Slow and Steady (Avoids Nuclear Armageddon):
-[X] Food Aid
-[X] Write-in: The stationing of 2 warships in S'Taxu, with RoE specifying they are to solely defend the spaceport and orbital infrastructure
-[X] Financial compensation.
[X] OPLAN: Sub Rosa (without miliary aid)
-[X] Food Aid
-[X] Write-in: Offer, as a "neutral" third party, to take advantage of the current "Cold War" detente to hold ceasefire talks, with food and military aid as a "carrot" for all sides.
-[X] Access to the yards
-[X] Write-in: as much information as possible via the Dynasts' military and civilian intel networks on all factions in the system, a sort of "World Factbook" of the war that we can use to plan our next moves.
-[X] Write-in: assistance in contacting the Junta and the Democratic faction planetside for negotiations regarding the loss of the Heimdall; we need our men and women back.
What will you recommend offering? - Food Aid
- Military Aid
- Offer, as a "neutral" third party, to take advantage of the current "Cold War" detente to hold ceasefire talks, with food and military aid as a "carrot" for all sides. What would you recommend asking for in return? - Access to the yards
- As much information as possible via the Dynasts' military and civilian intel networks on all factions in the system, a sort of "World Factbook" of the war that we can use to plan our next moves.
- Assistance in contacting the Junta and the Democratic faction planetside for negotiations regarding the loss of the Heimdall; we need our men and women back.
Deal Making - (02y10m00w)
Janus begins her slow journey back towards S'Taxu a month after her return, crew refreshed, ship maintained and engines humming a beautiful clear note. This time she takes only a single cruiser with her for escort, the HSWS Apolake, the cruiser crews getting vital interstellar experience in their repeated rotations to the gently warring system next door. They take with them a revised peace deal, an initial offering to the Monarchists that meets nobodies goals but will, at least, be a foot in the door.
Another month of waiting comes and goes, as the yards slowly build up the massive ships that sit in their cradles and operational warships conduct a series of manoeuvres in the outer system to ensure readiness in case an unknown enemy attacks - or in case the S'Taxu Junta discover how to reconstruct a Jump Engine and come hungry to our door. This doesn't happen, of course - not yet at least - and when the Janus and the Apolake slide back into real space with only a two hour seperation, at least one officer in the fleet pours themselves a large glass of bosun's spirit.
They come bearing good news. The Monarchists of S'Taxu have accepted the agreement as a preliminary step towards a future that includes greater cooperation. While they recognise that initially aid efforts will be slow - relying on the minimal cargo bays of a cruiser will do that - it is expected that this will soon increase to around 500 tons a month once the civilian cargo ships are available to Home (03y04m03w). Even that is a drop in the water compared to the needs of the Monarchists, but it is a signal of intent. In return, they offer as much information as they have:
S'Taxu - Factions and Interests The Democratic Republic of Cassalon - The first of two representative factions on S'Taxu, the Democratic Republic of Cassalon lay claim to the Eastern continent and all the cities there, their limited militaries and their hungry population. Monarchist forces were driven from the continent several years ago, and has not yet managed to deploy enough forces across S'Taxu's shallow oceans to restart efforts to bring them back into the fold. Population: ~12,000,000 spread across 17 self-contained cities. Military: ~90,000 split between ground forces and city defence militias. Commentaries: While the DRC has the potential to be a dangerous power bloc, they have no access to space infrastructure and seemingly little interest in developing it. Rather they seem far more interested in maintaining their iron grip on their own populous. A great deal of the governments time is spent producing so-called educational materials on completely fictional 'crimes' of the Chambrestrong Dynasty.
The Xyphon Federation- The smaller, but far more dangerous, of the two representative factions, the Federation is an interconnected group of six cities arrayed to the North of the planetary capital, which is far more interested in the collapse of the Monarchists than the DRC is. They maintain some level of communication with the People's Military Council that operates in the outer system and are occasionally supplied with weapons and other equipment by rapid insertion drone. Intercepting these packages would be something the Dynasts would hope for from any Home warships stationed in the system. Population: ~5,000,000 spread across 6 self-contained cities. Military: ~150,000, of which two-thirds are regulars and a third are reservists/second line troops. Anti-Orbital Systems: The Xyphon Federation maintains two different kinds of anti-orbital weapon systems; silo-based laser weapons with enough power to punch through the thick lower atmosphere and mobile missile launchers which maintain nuclear warheads. They do not have enough of either to deny the Monarchists their control over orbital weapons platforms. Commentaries: Not only is the Xyphon Federation better armed and better located to conduct attacks on the Monarchists, they also appear to be the most willing to use the weapons they have. There are regular skirmishes between Xyphon and Monarchist forces and we have been shown drone footage of tank-on-tank engagements in the cratered valleys between the Capital and the Federations six cities.
The representatives of the Chambrestrong House Guard believe that with a few well positioned cruisers (and their particle cannons), it would be possible to wipe out the Federations ability to respond to orbital threats, allowing ground forces to move in with the best artillery support ever invented. If (and its a big if) they have correctly identified all possible weapons sites, then they may well be correct.
The Peoples Military Council - The main threat to the Monarchists rule in S'Taxu, the People's Military Council is nothing but a well-named dictatorship of generals. Formed out of rebellious ground and space combat units, the PMC now occupies the two outermost planets in the system and while resources are limited and go almost entirely towards feeding their people, they still maintain a relatively large attack fleet that only doesn't occupy the main worlds orbitals due to the presence of the nuclear deterrent. Population: ~2,000,000 total across four bases/cities. Military: ~150,000 active duty, ~250,000 reservists. Most civilians have employment linked to maintaining the military force of the PMC. Fleet: At the current time, it is understood that the PMC operates two ~4,000 ton capital ships built into hollowed out asteroids as well as a series of patrol boats, armed merchants and war-rockets. None of the latter group breaches 1,000 tons in mass and most are far smaller than that. Commentaries: The Monarchists consider the PMC to be the main threat against their rule. Were they able to focus their full might on either of the democratic factions, they consider themselves fully able to develop a strategy that would end the war and re-unite the people of S'Taxu. However, the need to maintain an on-orbit deterrent at all times stretches military capacity to the limit and means that the Monarchists have little room to conduct a major offensive.
Further Negotiations
The representatives on the Chambrestrong Dynasty did leave our negotiators with a further question: Given all of the above, what support would the Home Navy need in order to agree to commit forces to the conflict zone? What does the Navy think would be an appropriate concession?
[ ] Write-in
In addition, the Citizens Council would like to hear what the Navy would consider an appropriate plan to end the threat of the Xyphon Federation against our allies, given that it will likely engender aggressive moves from the Junta. What plan would the Navy propose for the S'Taxu system?
[ ] Write-in
OK, we've gotten our information, can we now commit to something more substantial?
EDIT: How is our civilian shipbuilding? Can we handle building two cargo ships at once? Also, can we get a potential design for building S'taxu point-defense escorts?
These sound like they could take a beating. Though I imagine them being somewhat ponderous and liable to being outmanoeuvred, particulary with our Jump Engines. I could imagine a scenario where we bait these ships to one end of the system as a distraction, to then Jump into proximity of our true target.
Prior to kicking off this conflict and openly supporting the Monarchists, we need to ensure the return of the Heimdall's crew. If our mediated ceasefire is agreed we should take the opportunity to negotiate for their release. At the very least we need further information as to how many of the crew survived, their condition, and their good treatment. We currently haven't taken a side in this civil war yet, so the Junta have no right to hold them - as they aren't (yet) enemy combatants.
If negotiations appear unlikely to succeed, then we need to task our marines to begin drawing up plans to recover our crew by strength and guile. Hopefully we'll have some sort of appropriate apparatus / vehicles to support such as operation. If not, perhaps we need to drawn up plans for an assault ship or (if feasible) some sort of prowler / stealth ship.
This is all likely to take some time to plan and gather forces for, hence delaying matters with a ceasefire benefiting us.
[X] OPLAN Somewhere in the Heavens
-[X] Write-In: SPAFTA. 50/50 Mineral and Resource profit split between Dynasts and Home's private companies on all sites not currently under Chambrestrong control, with exclusive export rights to Xyri. We provide the jobs, they provide the rights, new S'taxi trade unions provide workers, everyone's happy. -[X] Write-In: MWO Recommendations to the Council: Use our status as the controlling power over the ceasefire to verify the political and military situations of each faction, including the Dynasts. Hear out each warring government's thoughts on the war and their end goals. Use our visit to the Military Council to gauge how our POWs from the Heimdall are being treated-and how they might be rescued if needed via FLFR deployment. Only once all information is verified do we take further military action.
-[X] Write-in: Recommendations on the Xyphon Federation are to prepare an orbital feint to prevent Junta space-to-space retaliation, then use Dynast surface forces deployed in the oceans in "Wild Weasel" strikes to eliminate orbital denial weapons. Our Fleet's role in this orbital feint will be to cause trouble, break things, and rescue our hostages from the Heimdall. However, this plan rests on the idea that the information provided by the Chambrestrong forces is correct. If they are lying to us to eliminate their rivals, an alliance with the Federation should be considered in its stead.
From the Multispectrum Warfare Office to Fleet Command and the Citizens' Fleet Affairs Committtee [NOTE: Draft Recommendations redacted but preserved for purposes of archival.]
To commit Home forces to the S'taxu Conflict Zone on the Chambrestrong side, the Dynasts must allow the Fleet and Home unique postwar free trading agreements regarding any mineral and resource rights not already under Dynast control within the system, or which have not been exploited previously. In an equal "profits split", our private companies will invest heavily in supplying new jobs and infrastructure to the postwar S'taxi government, as well as having exclusive rights to exporting these new claims' output to our new trading partners on Xyri. In exchange, half of all profit will go directly to the dynasty's coffers, and the stabilizing and morale effects of millions of prosperous new jobs will be theirs to use to keep the peace in a postwar world. Crucially, the rights of these newly-employed workers to organize must not be infringed-what would our own trade and mining unions and guilds think?
In regards to next steps militarily, our position as ceasefire brokers gives us immense leeway to undertake necessary "trust but verify" intelligence gathering to confirm as much of the Dynast claims regarding their opponents as possible. How strong are the Federation's orbital denial platforms? Is the Republic truly an insular strongman state, spewing propaganda, or are there shreds of truth in their claims of Chambrestrong atrocities? Most crucially from the perspective of the SWB, however, are the status of our spacers taken as prisoners from the Heimdall. Are they even conscious or credibly alive? Have they been tortured? Have their wounds been properly treated? Gaining answers to these questions is the perfect chance to also gain insight on the Military Council's space forces, especially the paired capital ships, hereafter target "Rock" and target "Castle". If we are to act in favor of the Dynasts and against the Council, the lives of our men and women are at risk as hostages. To that end, when our ceasefire "delegation" visits PMC space, representatives from the Fleet Landing Forces' Ranger branch should be included, in order to gain first-hand knowledge of the sites that may hold our lost Daughters and plan a rescue.
I will not re-iterate the points outlined above in regards to countering the Xyphon Federation beyond the briefest terms: use our space strength to draw off the Council fleet, then use Dynast surface naval air assets from the Republic front to strike and eliminate Federation orbital denial capabilities. This mission must, as part of the orbital feint, serve as a rescue operation to secure our POWs. An open Fleet Landing Forces boarding assault, led by Ranger teams equipped for hostage extraction, combined with orbital interdiction of Junta bases will serve as the perfect distraction for the Dynast elimination of Xyphon orbital dominance. In particular, our rescue mission's space assets should focus on tying down the Council's paired capital ships, hereafter target "Rock" and target "Castle". However, and this is crucial: this plan must not move forward until everything the Chambrestrong dynasty has told us about the state of affairs on S'taxu has been verified via the ceasefire process. We will have no second chances, and all the information we can gather will be crucial to surviving this first blooding of our combat fleet in foreign space.
If the Chambrestrong dynasty is lying to us, we should finish the work the Junta started. We need no deceit from our allies.
There's no reason to consider shifting to a democratic faction, it's oppossed to our way of doing things. Similarly, why would we insist on trade unions, these are a foreign concept for us. Also, we can't plan to use marines, because there's no transport ship in our Navy. I'll be back in the evening to draft something.
There's no reason to consider shifting to a democratic faction, it's oppossed to our way of doing things. Similarly, why would we insist on trade unions, these are a foreign concept for us. Also, we can't plan to use marines, because there's no transport ship in our Navy. I'll be back in the evening to draft something.
We're an oligarchy! I assume we'd want trade unions and mining guilds of the style present in historical oligarchies; creating a merchant/tradesmen class similar to our own.
No? We would want to expand our influence and make them dependent on our companies and subsumed in our structures. Native trade unions undermine that, especially if their goal is to allow workers to self-organize.
For future reference, what in specific was that reason? Plan element blocked pre-execution by the Navy's leadership being less insubordinately-minded than the voter base, or plan element blocked post-execution by the relevant orders being countermanded by the Council?
No? We would want to expand our influence and make them dependent on our companies and subsumed in our structures. Native trade unions undermine that, especially if their goal is to allow workers to self-organize.
That's on me for not being more explicit in my soft power idea, then. My thinking was that the unions, who work for us, in our mines, will then emulate our manner of trade-guild development and such, locking the Dynasts out of everything except the profits. If you'd like I can do some more edits.
For future reference, what in specific was that reason? Plan element blocked pre-execution by the Navy's leadership being less insubordinately-minded than the voter base, or plan element blocked post-execution by the relevant orders being countermanded by the Council?
[X] Plan Operation Solar Storm
-[X] Insist that Dynasts task their intelligence with confirming whether Heimdall survivors are alive and their location.
-[X] Use the S'taxu Yards to construct 4 500 tonnes point-defense escorts, based on the earlier MVP proposal, that drops the jump-drive to include more point defense meant to supplement our Interstellar Cruisers in space combat and orbital bombardment missions.
-[X] Check if there are S'taxu pilots in Dynast employ that could be tempted to permanently transfer to our Navy.
-[X] Station 3 Interstellar Cruisers in S'Taxu. On rotation. Intercept rapid insertion drones that supply the Xyphon Fedation. Confirm whether it is feasible to their particle beams to strike at surface targets, if so employ them to destroy Xyphon Federation's orbital denial weapons. Make sure to do proper recon from orbit first, to identify hidden sites. Surprise strike, take out silo-based lasers first, use escorts to handle to counter nuclear counterattack.
-[X] Demand that Home gets shares in S'taxu yards after the war. Insist on tonnage limitations the their future fleet and secure basing and transit rights. In addition, secure lucrative contracts for our business partners, making it easier for them to achieve an economic foothold in S'taxu.
-[X] From there, we're content to let the civil war simmer, occasionally harassing Junta supply ships and keeping an eye on their construction efforts. Offer an official Defensive Pact to the Dynasts to further stalemate the situation.
EDIT: In the end, perhaps something snappier is in order. I've posted a rapid strike version of this plan later in the thread.
For future relations and expansion I propose the following. This is modified from the Traveller RPG setting in various versions. Instead of an empire, occupying every meter of soil, we focus on Surface spaceports , orbital infrastructure, weapons of mass destruction and sophont slavery. Our spaceports shall be free trade, travel and free speech zones autonomous from whatever local government is on the planet. Therefore we do not build an empire but a trade hegemony and we can simply stop trade with any orbital state or surface based state and let them wallow in their ignorance.
Re: Operation Solar Storm @Magnificate could I get a timescale on some of those actions?
Are you planning to delay action until the 500 tons ships can be built, or are you going to begin intercepts immediately?
Are you going to do orbital bombardment with the ship that is present, or mass forces to conduct those strikes?
If you plan to decisively tip the balance, how are things going to simmer?
Re: Operation Solar Storm @Magnificate could I get a timescale on some of those actions?
Are you planning to delay action until the 500 tons ships can be built, or are you going to begin intercepts immediately?
Are you going to do orbital bombardment with the ship that is present, or mass forces to conduct those strikes?
If you plan to decisively tip the balance, how are things going to simmer?
My question as well for @Magnificate-we seem like we're asking for yards after the war's over, but then it will never be over thanks to the stalemate SolSto calls for? Maybe I'm just not reading the proposal right.
Also, tonnage limitations and other ways to "throw our weight around" seems like a good way for the Dynasts or another power to turn us into a new enemy to unify the S'taxi around defeating; nothing gets people unified like resisting an outside threat.
Wait at least after 3 Interstellar Cruisers are present. The timing is mostly a question of whether our guys think it's going to be considered enough of an act of aggression to invite surface-to-orbit retaliation. I assume it is possible to intercept in deep space, but it could mess up our orbital bombardment positioning later.
Here the assumption is Dynasts will take time to recover their planet, plus the current plan involves no decisive strikes at the Junta. It tips the balance, but I don't read it as decisive. Is it?
Also, tonnage limitations and other ways to "throw our weight around" seems like a good way for the Dynasts or another power to turn us into a new enemy to unify the S'taxi around defeating; nothing gets people unified like resisting an outside threat.
Here the assumption is it'll be hard for the Dynasts to actually control the planetary population. We'll want them to be the lightning rod for the discontent. That said, I'm not opposed to make the tonnage limitations reasonable. Perhaps some high percentage of our fleet, perhaps applying just to jump-capable ships, ect.
I agree with Traveller76 that focusing on being a trade empire is a good idea, but the three starting systems ought to be our core in much more direct fashion.
So lemme check the timeline:
- It is now 02y10m
- Develop a force inside the S'Taxu system without taking significant action.
- 2 cruisers, 1 surveyor and several jump-merchants are completed.
- Maintain that force until around 04y01m when the escorts are completed.
- Then and only then, take decisive action against ground defences which have been aware of the presence of multiple warships for over a year.
- Remove the defences, allowing the monarchists to roll into their main local competitor with orbital artillery support.
- Then just kind of... stop doing anything.
