Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I agree on that in terms of the supernatural factions. South America for example is pretty much owned by the Reds at this point and there isn't much in the way of a Masquerade over there either. Though I can't say I'd agree if he tried installing a dictatorship in someplace like modern Britain as its being managed by humans just fine in a general sense.
The only way for him to gain power in Britain the way you're saying is to engage in distinctly dishonorable and shitty behavior. That's the thing even as a dragonblooded(Equivalent) he would still be up against essentially the white Council any Supernatural factions Britain's own version of the Library of Congress possibly their own version of Daedalus (MI 666, MI 7). He's no longer anyone's rightful leige Lord like he was initially he no longer has God directly on his side in the form of the sword he's down to three knights who while powerful aren't exactly the full table which is anywhere from 12 to a couple of dozen powerful knights on level of these three. There's also the fact he just doesn't speak English at best he speaks ancient Welsh at worse he doesn't even speak any recognizable form of Welsh and is stuck with Welsh drift Latin. Then there's the fact he has no clue how the modern world works so you'd have to directly engage with the functioning of the modern world to understand that and to be honest if he goes into politics to become a rightful leader of Britain what would be the problem with that even there he would still be one among many except maybe even actually be trying to legislate in the people in favor.

None of that is to say he can't be a conquerer like your suggesting but nothing about the modern setup of the world who would allow him to act in the matter you're suggesting the favors of winter or summer only extend so far he probably doesn't have any favors with winter because he got a bunch of Mab's children killed and personally killed one of them himself. Not to mention he didn't call on Summer's help during the Rebellion he only did it when he was literally struck down so he doesn't particularly have them in such a volume that he's willing to use them wantingly.
 
[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
-[X]Crown Question- Focus Scene: What is Lyr Half-tongue planning?

Having people say they aren't sure they trust them and then vote not to ask about their plans seems strange to me.
 
[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
-[X]Crown Question- Focus Scene: What is Lyr Half-tongue planning?
 

[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
-[X]Crown Question- Focus Scene: What is Lyr Half-tongue planning?
 
Votes as they stand, it's a tie.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 26, 2024 at 7:12 AM, finished with 85 posts and 18 votes.
 
[X] Free them under the conditions proposed
-[X]Crown Question- Focus Scene: What is Lyr Half-tongue planning?


Never say no to more information, methinks
 
OK, vote closed, question it is.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 26, 2024 at 7:19 AM, finished with 87 posts and 19 votes.
 
Arthur at his worst plausible interpretation is a genocidal racist religious fanatic bent on establishing a theocratic dictatorship with himself as an immortal king.

And I would even dispute racist. While it's not like people of the time didn't see skin color or didn't think it indicated something about human nature (like temperament), it was nothing compared to racism that came after.

Remember, it's still the Late Antiquity, when places like North Africa were still seen as more "civilized" than places like Germany.

here's also the fact he just doesn't speak English at best he speaks ancient Welsh at worse he doesn't even speak any recognizable form of Welsh and is stuck with Welsh drift Latin. Then there's the fact he has no clue how the modern world works so you'd have to directly engage with the functioning of the modern world to understand that and to be honest if he goes into politics to become a rightful leader of Britain what would be the problem with that even there he would still be one among many except maybe even actually be trying to legislate in the people in favor.

How long do you think it would take for an intelligent and talented person, that already knows Latin (and possibly even some Germanic language. I would learn Gothic, if I wanted to conquer Rome at the time) to learn Modern English? Or someone, who likely already has a classical education, to get a crash course of the history of modern political theory and context?

Because after they have acquired that knowledge, and if they are some social focused Exalted, then I would really dispute that a politician with supernatural charism is going to be just "one among many" competing for votes, in the era of mass media.
 
How long do you think it would take for an intelligent and talented person, that already knows Latin (and possibly even some Germanic language. I would learn Gothic, if I wanted to conquer Rome at the time) to learn Modern English? Or someone, who likely already has a classical education, to get a crash course of the history of modern political theory and context?

Because after they have acquired that knowledge, and if they are some social focused Exalted, then I would really dispute that a politician with supernatural charism is going to be just "one among many" competing for votes, in the era of mass media.
Even with the most expedited timeline he's still looking at months of practice to be a fluent English speaker English is such a catastrophic hodgepod of languages that he would have to not just work with his Germaninc and Latin roots but essentially moved through the weird Gaelic and French editions to the Germanic language that is completely different to the one he actually speaks which is welsh. English is an evolution of the Angol's tongue not the Welsh to the point English does not contain a lot of the vocal stops and general pronunciation rules of Welsh and that's modern Welsh I don't know how pre-modern Welsh actually sounds.

By one of many I mean he would not be in a governing body that answers to him in any sense. Even with super socials he literally cannot hold more than one government seat by himself. There's also no position of unilateral state power anymore. The closest is prime minister and even then you are first among equals not actually indisputably head of state. It's in the name first minister. By the functioning of modern governments he is literally one among many. This is before we get into just establish political parties the rules about how elections are run the general backing economic and otherwise that most political parties and candidates have that he would be completely lacking and would need to make up or integrate himself with to even try and make a run in the first place there's a lot going on that essentially being supernaturally charismatic isn't enough never mind the fact that being completely unfamiliar with the law politics and economics of the modern day aren't going to help him at all. Though I will say he will probably learn those considerably faster than he would English.
 
he probably doesn't have any favors with winter because he got a bunch of Mab's children killed and personally killed one of them himself. Not to mention he didn't call on Summer's help during the Rebellion he only did it when he was literally struck down so he doesn't particularly have them in such a volume that he's willing to use them wantingly.
He might not have favors (we don't know), but he's still Mab's brother. And possibly the father of her child (Mordred). He's bound to have interesting relationship with the fae courts.
 
He might not have favors (we don't know), but he's still Mab's brother. And possibly the father of her child (Mordred). He's bound to have interesting relationship with the fae courts.
No doubt whatever his relationship with the fairies is it's going to be nearly Greek family tree in it's complexity. Though being her brother might allow Mab not to try and kill him she doesn't seem particularly the person who lets the death of her children go and I think there's like four separate ones that died because of him including Mordred who he literally kills. Though in some tellings those are nephews rather than Sons so it's anyone's guess.
 
The world has so many factions, many of them anti-human, that mixing things up here sounds like a near-certain net-win for mankind.

Not for Molly personally maybe, but that's okay.

I just don't agree with the assessment that being humans makes someone pro human or that just making a mess to see what falls out is good for people. How many lives exactly is returning their liege worth? How much chaos?

A pile of dead monsters only goes so far, and we don't need them to win.

I would much rather have disagreements and conflict with a dragonblooded ex-knight of the cross and his christian theocratic dictatorship than with the Red King and his vampirecratic country where people are lifestock.
Why? We're going to kill the red king anyway, we didn't need to compromise with these guys.

Perhaps this will go better than I expect, but this isn't so much a glass half full vs half empty thing as it is drinking the thing without really knowing what's inside.

nd I would even dispute racist. While it's not like people of the time didn't see skin color or didn't think it indicated something about human nature (like temperament), it was nothing compared to racism that came after.

Remember, it's still the Late Antiquity, when places like North Africa were still seen as more "civilized" than places like Germany.
That's not quite correct; their bigotry was "just" more localized. See the welsh triad calling Saxons a plague. Or how the Romans regarded anyone who wasn't from their core territory.

The word barbarian is based on the onomatopoeia they* used to make fun of everyone else for being too stupid to have a proper language/culture. It directly maps to the vibe you'd get if you heard someone refer to people from Asia as "ChingChongites". Which I think most people would agree would be breathtakingly, fractally, bigoted.

Religion was also a way more significant divider than it typically is today. It's still a big deal, but lynching people for being the wrong kind of Protestant is significantly less common.

* or rather the Greeks, then the Romans after they looted Greece for ideas.
 
Arc 13 Post 18: Of Relic and Rebels
Of Relic and Rebels

4rd of February 2007 A.D.

What are you planning Lyr Half Tongue? A question cast across the threads of fate, not one whose answer you had expected to recognize that was on the other end, a shadowed chapel streaked with oblique light, framed by images and symbols of the Passion of Christ: olive branches, crowns of thorns, passion flower and the Titulus crucis... the Shroud of Turin which your father had protected from the Denarians three years back. But how would he...? you blink returning to yourself and Usum, ever the helpful councilor, opines: "Not of Turin... He does not know where the relic might be Majesty, but he has faith that it still is and in this world of empires fallen how much easier would be be to claim than from the vaults of Basileia Rhomaion."


Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 13/15 (Crown of Eyes)
Regained 2 Essence -> Now at 15/15 (Urge of the Forbidden)


The Shroud alone would not wake Arthur from his deathly slumber, that much is sure. The centerpiece of a rite though, one with the weight of Essence behind it... Gwair's green hair speaks to the essence of life Mabon of stone, Lyr himself is hard to judge, but he has daring. Be honest with yourself Molly, daring enough to steal it.

"We are going to need a few moments to decide," Lydia's voice cuts through your thoughts.

Thunk, the stone lid closes. Olivia and to a lesser extent Daniel look shocked, but Tiffany just turns to you to ask: "What did you see?"

"He's planning to go after the Shroud of Turin... well he doesn't know it is in Turin, but that's not important. How long do you think it will take him to figure out the internet?"

"Oh..." She exhales and just looks at you for a moment in pure disbelief, then she starts to laugh for lack of other words. "Well, let it not be said that history doesn't fall in comedic rhyme."

"They could probably do it," Lydia offers thoughtfully. "Most of the wards will be aimed at common enemies of the Church, demons, vampires, maybe warlocks. No one will really be expecting me to just let them loose."

"But..." It is not often that your brother does a deer in the headlights impression. The last time you remember was when he one of his friends put a baseball though Mrs Evens' window two years ago. He knew confessing was right, but he also really didn't want to deal with her. You'd lied him out of that one. "You should make them promise not to mess with that too."

"I doubt they mean the Shroud any harm once they put it to use," your friend points out, clearly not seeing herself as the guardian of other people's relics. "Given who Arthur was mayhap the White God still has need of him, or enough fondness not to meddle in the plans of his retainers."

"That's not how it works, God loves everyone," Daniel starts to explain, but before he can go much further Tiffany interjects having recovered her composure.

"If they are going to make the attempt it is more than the Church they should guard against. The Order of the Blackened Denarius would love nothing more than to claim it for a far less wholesome purpose."

"See, she agrees with me..." your bother starts to speak over the once-Fallen Angel, not noticing the beginnings of a smile.

"Oh dear no, I was going to propose we help the knights do it and set a trap of our own. A year is quite a long time to train and to prepare, to learn the strengths of the three and hone our own and when the hour comes pretend you are blindsided, not a single word spoken of this outside this prison, old an empty it may be, but its wards are carved deep. Hardly could you find a better place to plot such a trap, all the more so since we have all come here quite by chance."

"So let me get this straight, the other twenty nine silver coin people... demons in your story, you want to screw them over? Catch them out?" Olivia asks.

"Lasciel is still very much still part of my troubles, a fraction of a fraction I am, but some things I still recall. When Imariel and Laratessa wish to be free of the oppressive sight of Anduriel they often wander though grey death lands such as these, not because he cannot follow, but because he rarely does. It pains him for... some reason I did not retain the memory of."

"As the present keeper of this realm that's good to know," Lydia offers.

Daniel isn't arguing anymore. There's an equally familiar look in his eye, determination. It would have to be a particularly full year for him for you to even consider taking him along against the Denarians, but you have seen stranger happenings.

"Count me in," Olivia says quietly. "Sounds like these are the biggest baddest monsters out there. Worth doing and once it's done worth telling the White Council as well."

What does Molly think of the whole plan?

[] Too dangerous, offer the knights release, but only if they promise not to seek the Shroud either (Will reveal that you performed very powerful divination unnoticeable somehow)

[] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open

[] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi

[] Write in


OOC: Tiffany knows the Denarians are gunning for her so seeing an oportunity she is gunning for them. Ball's in your court.
 
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just don't agree with the assessment that being humans makes someone pro human or that just making a mess to see what falls out is good for people. How many lives exactly is returning their liege worth? How much chaos?

A pile of dead monsters only goes so far, and we don't need them to win.
I'm a bit unhappy that only monsters are planning big, sweeping Changes and most good forces keep up the status quo,unless they are forced to act like the White Council by the Red Court.

I much prefer some insane schemes to restore King Arthur than no mad plans from the good guys at all.
 
Just as a reminder in Dresden Files that is not the real Shroud of Turin. The real one is in Hades' vault.
 
[X] Plan Layers of Deception
-[X] Give options for peaceful possibilities of restoring Arthur to life as possible compromises, should they prove themselves trustworthy, retrieving the Shroud only one of them, to obscure the Crown of Eyes
--[X] Subterfuge excellency
-[X] Sounds like a plan, explain it to them here, behind the wards of the Caer Sindi
--[X] Use the Crown on the prison cell to ask "who is observing this scene right now?" before speaking


I am uncomfortable making it clear that we can read their minds. So, subterfuge excellency.
 
Cant we just ask them to not try and resz Aurther rather than try and stop them from attaining the means of doing so?
 
[x] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open

We already have a way to bring the dead back to live, and heal nearly anything. And a year prep is a very very long time for an Exalted.
 
[X] Release them under the conditions previously agreed to, you have a year to observe them before deciding on if you want to go with Tiffany's idea of luring the Denarians in the open
 
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