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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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uju32 said:
1) CSR is Dragon Nest rate, and you have to immobilize yourself to get that much.
This you can do on the move, and you can do it across diverse environments to boot.

There's a reason that Essence recovery is so deliberately difficult in the setting.
I wasnt kidding when I said this breaks the Essence economy.


2)-2DC which is sustained for every new scene you change locations in.
And which stacks with Shintai!Mode's -1DC reality bubble, and the other DC adjusters
Its hilariously broken. The whole charm is.

For example, look at our visit to the Wicked City.
That -2DC buff would have been in full effect for the entirety of that trip, on top of TLF and CCC and BSM.

Thanks for not taking it personally.


Yes, I know using it as a Nemesis detection was explicitly mentioned by the QM. However?
The Nemesis possessed arent all that many IIRC.
Its absolutely a big deal, but I wouldnt buy it for just that.

Lord Raith wasnt particularly unique; he was, in boxing terms, a medium-weight contender trying to break into the heavyweights
He got that Investment from an Outsider, according to Dresden's description of how it felt when he cast magic at him.
Consider what the actual heavyweights have.

Not particularly.
Mikaboshi had All is Poison as a global effect over most of his prison, where all the scrubs live. Thats just a general effect at fucking with the proles and infiltrators. What do you think his personal protections are going to be like?

I mean, this aint all that unique an effect; its very similar to a spirit charm in M20 Gods and Monsters called Bad Luck Curse, which makes you botch.

Arguably, the spirit charm is worse.
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I have no idea but I always imagine nemesis infected were somewhere in the hundreds maybe over a thousand worldwide. Mind you this is based on exactly nothing just knowing there have been plenty throughout history and their a big enough deal to have organizations try and track them.
 
uju32 said:
Lord Raith wasnt particularly unique; he was, in boxing terms, a medium-weight contender trying to break into the heavyweights
He got that Investment from an Outsider, according to Dresden's description of how it felt when he cast magic at him.
Consider what the actual heavyweights have.
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And yet he's the only one who has it. He's a middle weight with a unique gimmick.
uju32 said:
Not particularly.
Mikaboshi had All is Poison as a global effect over most of his prison, where all the scrubs live. Thats just a general effect at fucking with the proles and infiltrators. What do you think his personal protections are going to be like?

I mean, this aint all that unique an effect; its very similar to a spirit charm in M20 Gods and Monsters called Bad Luck Curse, which makes you botch.
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How is this relevant to his dicepools? We can reasonably expect very few beings to have 20+ dice. Mab has less dice in diplomacy when she's explicitely serious and has preptime.
 
Also, going back to system limitations - the easiest way for weaker enemies to matter more is probably to port mass combat rules from other system.
What are the benefits of more people?
-More HLs as there are a lot of people to kill, with potential overkill on attacks
-More attacks and potentially more damage, but with shitty dice pools
-Defense penalty

So, let's measure groups at 2-5-10-20-50-100-etc increments. I doubt we will need more than 100 unless Molly needs to do something like fight a Demon host or Outsider armies.

A group gets bonus HLs equal to the number of combatants but gets to be attacked as a single entity by most attacks except those kill exactly one target - so a sword slash could wound or kill multiple members but a disintegration beam that dusts exactly one person or object will remove only 1 HL no matter how good are the rolls. Area attacks get a bonus to damage.

A group gets bonus to attack and damage dice - 1 per group tier - so 6 dice to a 100 man group attacking Molly in concert if they can manage it.
And the same penalty to defenses that is not carried over to other attacks as the group is counted as a single entity.

Important - the group makes only 1 attack, not 2,5,100 or whatever their number. To show that Molly or other powerful combatants are capable of maneuvering to minimize the damage.
__________________________________________
Let's now look at some non-epic combat situations:

An average company of soldiers with rifles and mechanized support would be something like:
HL +100
Armor 3/7(vehicles)
Attack Pool 6+6(size) = 12 and -6 to defence against their own attack, but only -1 that carries over to the next enemy.
Damage Pool 4(rifles)/5 with 8 again(heavy weapons)/7 with 8 again(anti-tank weapons) + 6 size = 10-13

A squad of melee vampire knights with Potence(4) and Fortitude(3):
HL +10
Armor 7 including against aggravated damage
Attack Pool 9+3(size) = 12 and -3 to defence
Damage Pool 13+3(size) = 16
_______________________________________
They still need to have some Tactics to threaten Molly properly but at least they should have a minor chance of scratching her.

How would it look in game:
Let's say we have 3 squads of vampires controlling a company of soldiers.

Soldiers attack with 12 dice and -6 to Molly defense
-1 to her defenses until the end of turn
1st squad attacks with 12 dice and -4 to defence
-2 to her defenses until the end of turn
2nd squad attacks with 12 dice and -5 to defence
-3 to her defenses until the end of turn
3rd squad attacks with 12 dice and -6 to defence
-4 to her defenses until the end of turn if there are still enemies left.
_____________________________________________
The end result should be more chances to harm Molly a little but way less overall potential damage. And big groups could attack multiple targets at once threatening everyone.
 
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uju32 said:
1) Its more expensive, but its a better charm for that purpose.


2) Note that it does not target the bosses, just their offices and projects.
Because magic bosses that would matter to an Exalted can be expected to have the defenses to handle or otherwise mitigate this sort of thing.

Particularly in this Dresdenverse AU, where faerie curses and wizard death curses are very much a thing, and feared appropriately for their ability to kill or otherwise absolutely fuck your life up, as well as your unborn descendants if you dont have the power and smarts to defend against them.

Again, see Lord Raith, who got an Investment to prevent magic being used against him directly, and didnt prevent him being starved to death by a smart curse.
Or poor Harvey MacFinn the loup garou.
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wasn't the loup garou a divine curse of some kind if I remember right?
 
[X]Plan Organizations, Pro and Con
-[X]Molly: 40xp
--[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
--[X]Endless Torment Emanation: 12xp
--[X]Countermagic 2/4 (Human + Vampire): 6xp
--[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
--[X]Bank 2 xp
-[X]Lash: 11xp
--[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
--[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
--[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
-[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
--[X]Occult 2: 2xp
--[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
--[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
--[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
-[X]Olivia: 11xp
--[X]Bank XP

I'm really a fan of Endless Torment Emanation, and other things affect entire organizations. We need to work on a less individual level.

Edit: Also, I thought it was 4 dot for some reason, so more xp for countermagic.
 
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Goldfish said:
@uju32, why does your plan have Olivia banking all of her XP?
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I didnt build her, and I didnt want to fuck up whatever the build plan was.
Especially if there are any ambitions with regards to Disciplines, which are hilariously expensive to raise for a dhampir.
So, bank.

Especially until I see what the plans are for mitigating her appallingly terrible soak.
I had my own, but like I said, I didnt build her.
Seemed courteous.
firefrog600 said:
I have no idea but I always imagine nemesis infected were somewhere in the hundreds maybe over a thousand worldwide. Mind you this is based on exactly nothing just knowing there have been plenty throughout history and their a big enough deal to have organizations try and track them.
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My understanding from lurking the Dresdenfiles forums and reddit is that we're dealing with double digits max.
Probably less than 20. Maybe less than 10 at a time.

There are other people who may have Outsiders or even other Walkers in their heads.
But Nemesis aka He Who Walks Beside?
Very limited numbers.

firefrog600 said:
wasn't the loup garou a divine curse of some kind if I remember right?
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It was a curse. We dont know who the curse is from.
I think Chaunzaggoroth claimed his family was cursed by Saint Patrick, but demons arent all that trustworthy and have motive when it comes to slandering the opposition, so who knows.
 
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Tsotate said:
I'm really a fan of Endless Torment Emanation, and other things affect entire organizations. We need to work on a less individual level.
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I dont think Molly is secure enough on a personal level for that to be our priority. Yet.
Especially given the sort of enemies she's been making recently.


Also, Endless Torment Emanation is a 3-dot charm.
12xp.
 
uju32 said:
I didnt build her, and I didnt want to fuck up whatever the build plan was.
Especially if there are any ambitions with regards to Disciplines, which are hilariously expensive to raise for a dhampir.
So, bank.

Especially until I see what the plans are for mitigating her appallingly terrible soak.
I had my own, but like I said, I didnt build her.
Seemed courteous.

My understanding from lurking the Dresdenfiles forums and reddit is that we're dealing with double digits max.
Probably less than 20. Maybe less than 10 at a time.

There are other people who may have Outsiders or even other Walkers in their heads.
But Nemesis aka He Who Walks Beside?
Very limited numbers.


It was a curse. We dont know who the curse is from.
I think Chaunzaggoroth claimed his family was cursed by Saint Patrick, but demons arent all that trustworthy and have motive when it comes to slandering the opposition, so who knows.
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Really whats that low number based off?

Edit: Also speaking of nemesis their really fucking annoying in quest since they can pull out large portions of their essence out of hosts at will it seems. Which means every time we murder meat them they barely lose anything so far. Anyways to solve that guys?
 
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uju32 said:
I didnt build her, and I didnt want to fuck up whatever the build plan was.
Especially if there are any ambitions with regards to Disciplines, which are hilariously expensive to raise for a dhampir.
So, bank.

Especially until I see what the plans are for mitigating her appallingly terrible soak.
I had my own, but like I said, I didnt build her.
Seemed courteous.
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In that case, why not just copy that section of Yog's plan?
 
uju32 said:
I dont think Molly is secure enough on a personal level for that to be our priority. Yet.
Especially given the sort of enemies she's been making recently.


Also, Endless Torment Emanation is a 3-dot charm.
12xp.
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Why do you think so? So far, all our combat has been pretty one sided, and IC commentary indicates that we should be able to roll over denarian warforms (the most dangerous short to medium term enemies) fairly easily.

What is the condition for you to say "Molly is secure enough"? Numerically, if possible. Because I get a feeling that such a state will never be reached.
 
[X] Plan Rounding out and Clones
-[X] Molly (41 XP) 1 XP Banked
--[X] Increase Craft to 5 Dots (4 XP)
--[X] Increase Academics to 2 Dots (2 XP)
--[X] Increase Leadership to 4 Dots (3 XP)
--[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dot (12 XP)
--[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (7 XP)
--[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
--[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
-[X]Lash: 11xp
--[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
--[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
--[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
-[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
--[X]Occult 2: 2xp
--[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
--[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
--[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
-[X]Olivia: 11xp
--[X]Bank XP

Molly
We just unlocked the forge our caste skills still aren't finished. Multi-Magic potions, potions of actual potence that allow permanent changes, Items of supernatural providence. The ability to make all is poison and warp storms and similar large-scale Mana manipulations like that can grant large scale benefits to allies and harsher penalties to enemies.
 
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Added investments for Lash. I don't really like it, but there's no reason not to, since it has been ruled as allowed for Lash.
 
@Yog why no counter magic in your latest plan? You are planning on adding a White Council action to handle the spy issue next turn aren't you?
 
BoredMan said:
@Yog why no counter magic in your latest plan? You are planning on adding a White Council action to handle the spy issue next turn aren't you?
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I am, yes. But Molly has multiple overlapping magical defenses already (native exalted countermagic, SSC if my plan wins, shaping defense, perfect defense). If this is considered as a strong requirement, I'll probably drop Five Paths One Ring, get counter magic: human for Molly. Olivia already buys that. I might switch Lydia, but I am loath to do so. For Lash I think being able to speak all languages will be more useful, but, again, I might switch if this is something people feel strongly about.
 
Yog said:
I am, yes. But Molly has multiple overlapping magical defenses already (native exalted countermagic, SSC if my plan wins, shaping defense, perfect defense). If this is considered as a strong requirement, I'll probably drop Five Paths One Ring, get counter magic: human for Molly. Olivia already buys that
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From what I understand countermagic would allow us to better respond to hostile magic that isn't targeting us specifically. Which seems important since the entire point of tackling the spy issue is to avoid a rehash of canon or worse in which a ton of White Council worthy people get murdered even with Peabody being taken care of.

Olivia isn't good at sustained combat. We saw that recently. I don't think we should involve her much in the White Council plotline.
 
BoredMan said:
From what I understand countermagic would allow us to better respond to hostile magic that isn't targeting us specifically. Which seems important since the entire point of tackling the spy issue is to avoid a rehash of canon or worse in which a ton of White Council worthy people get murdered even with Peabody being taken care of.

Olivia isn't good at sustained combat. We saw that recently. I don't think we should involve her much in the White Council plotline.
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Olivia isn't that good at sustained combat, yes, but when going after White Council she should be an absolute menace due to ridiculous dc adjusters.

Ok, further tanking my chances, let's tey to include everything into the plan.

link to custom charms.

[X] Plan: courtly debut v2
-[X] Molly, 37 XP
--[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation (•••••), 20 XP
--[X] Counterspell: human, 3 XP
--[X] Emergency Minion Hologram, 4 XP
--[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4XP
--[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
-[X] Lydia, 14 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
--[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
--[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
--[X] Occult 2, 2 XP
-[X] Lash, 12 XP
--[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
--[X] Lore of Light 2, 5 XP
--[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
--[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
-[X] Olivia, 12 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
--[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
--[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP

Molly gets counter spelling.
Emergency Minion Hologram at E4 allows for quick minions, and digital possessions management gives us an inventory.
 
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BoredMan said:
Can I get a basic description of these three please? It doesn't seem like your plan has a ranged weapon included but I can't tell.
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Here is the link to custom charms. Shadow spite curse is canon Kakuri charm. Digital Possession Management os a charm that functions like videogame inventory. This allows us to carry large quantities of grenades, guns, turrets and such, covering the ranges combat need. Emergency minion holograms produces scene long holographic copies of our minions. At e4 we can make them physical, thus allowing them to carry weapons. It covers our needs very well.
 
@DragonParadox since voting will continue all day could you do an interlude on the possibly magical and more certainly political consequences of our detonation of the plague of hope, especially among our allies like LoC or White Council? What about how we foil the attempt to destroy the global economy?

Von Tier and the Council must be patting themselves on the back for good diplomacy with us especially when this happened right after we stopped the Vegas Gate from opening.
 
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