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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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On a fundamental level we are just doing what every little vampire-hunter or non-retired Shi is doing, what people like Arlene are doing when they get the option.

We kill monsters, end clearly evil operations that include human trafficking, as well as we are able to.

Sure, we as an Exalted can act on a greater scale, but the principle holds.
Monsters who eat people don't get the benefit of the law, unless they also accept it as binding.
 
I feel like it is worth mentioning the paradigm shift that this battle represented. That Dragon would have laughed at people shooting it with more conventional weapons, but our people armed with plasma did most of the damage.

Do we want to sell plasma weapons to the Library?
 
uju32 said:
If we push this, and the Red Court call an Accords mediation, we will lose.
And we will lose face.
And potentially be asked to pay damages. Potentially.
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As far as I remember Molly is not part of the Accords yet. So anyone who wants to take a pound of her flesh can very much take it up with her murder blendery glorious self and rip whatever they've sown. Basically any nods Molly does to the established rules she does out of the goodness of her heart right now. From the supernatural point of view. Or because they align with her own internal rules.

TheGrape said:
Winter and Summer couldn't give two shits about the Spirit of the Law (which canonically doesn't exist) or legal precedents.
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Technically "spirit of the Law" is part of Zeus domain. Yeah. You can guess why everything is in such a state. It's fucking Zeus!
 
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uju32 said:
If we push this, and the Red Court call an Accords mediation, we will lose.
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Lose what? You are talking like there might be some sort of court case? Even if we were a signatory of the accords all that would happen is us being formally at war* or a duel which gives a chance to kill another lord in single combat.

*For all that we have ever really been at peace.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Feb 24, 2024 at 1:19 AM, finished with 220 posts and 31 votes.
  • [x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    [X] No, everything has been dealt with
    [X]Plan Red be gone
    -[X]Buy Night Shallows Secrets (•••) and Broadcast Announcement Prana (•) for 13 XP
    -[X]Use intimidation exultancy 1 mote + Demonic Primacy of Essence + Sig
    -[X]Stunt: "One moment please" As the Dragon's body cools you feel your self brimming with authority you let it burst out and every speaker in Las Vegas rings with your voice. "Attention the Local leader of the Red Court in Las Vegas has just been executed for consorting with outsiders and conspiring to destroy the world. As a result all members of the Red Court are hereby banished from the city of Las Vegas. You have 28 days to sell off your local property before you are found out of compliance." You turn back to your phone. "Sorry about that now there are no more loose ends".
    -[X] Then use Night Shallows Secrets to stop people from talking about you disturbing the peace.
    [x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    -[x] Summon Maeve to ask her how much outsider fraternizing is too much outsider fraternizing.
    [X] Plan exile
    -[x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    -[X] Do not commit to murder. The goal is to remove Red Court from Vegas, so options like forcing them to sell their properties and leave should be on the table
    [X] Maeve, Maeve, Maeve, I summon thee.
    [X]Plan Painting the town not Red
    -[x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    -[X]Summon Maeve and Lily offer them the chance for a fun girl's night out.
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uju32 said:
Yes we are.

This is not our city, not our place, nor do we have the right to make demands of the Red Court, nor the ability to enforce them.
We are not at war (officially) and they will almost certainly disavow whatever the Dragon did; he was a Red Court vampire, but he was in the employ of the Sin-Eater of Las Vegas.

Ergo the person who can move against them without dispute is the Sin Eater and his chosen representative.
WE dont want that job. At least, I hope noone wants that job.

It was like when Duke Skavis summoned an Outsider while he had Red Court support; the person who had the right to take shit up was the White King. Not us.
Not to mention that we explicitly told a representative of the White Court that we dont want to hang around here.
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In order - this is our country, our planet, and our Creation. We are the ones to resolve the situation. As such, it's up to us to finish resolving it. At most you could argue that Winter has a say.
BronzeTongue said:
1) All reds who actively assisted the Dragon die or are stripped of all material possessions and banished depending on what mitigating circumstances they have.

2) Anyone who did nothing doesn't die or get a fine, but they are leaving town and selling off any assets they have here.

3) Anyone who actively helped also has to leave, but they get some loot from the pillaging the people we kill. In fact, just to make this a mess for the red court, we should put them in charge of liquidating those assets with the understanding that they get to keep most of what they take apart.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I want. I would sign off on this plan, it's eminently logical and restrained.
uju32 said:
I do not think it is in Winter or Summer's interests to set a precedent where whoever stopped them can arbitrarily make impositions on them if that happens again. Or in the White Court's. Or even the White Council; Peabody is an Outsider cultist/supporter IIRC.
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The precedent has been established. The favors we got from Winter and Summer, did you forget them? They are, in essence, the same as what is being proposed we do to the reds. And Winter and Summer were obligated to give them to us. The scope of what we are proposing is well within one Favor we got from Mab or Titania. Only we are reaping it from Red Court. So, yes, thanks for reminder. The precedent is on our side.

Also... @DragonParadox is Sin Eater / their Dragon a freeholding lord under Accords? What's the Accorded status of Vegas?
 
Alratan said:
But we didn't take them into the tunnels, so Tiffany had no reason to mention it. And there's no hint anywhere that the red vampires are immune to mind control.
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They definitely are not, that said as much as one can make sense of the mind of someone who would make deals with the Old Ones it makes sense to leave some of the Reds still doing their thing until the last moment precisely because they provide the best of all camouflage, believing the lie. I mean OK, lets imagine you guys did not vote to spent the question when you encountered Orpheus, you would then not know the Dragon was in service of the same powers as Sandra. The scene that would have greeted you there at the end would have been quite different.

Yog said:
Also... @DragonParadox is Sin Eater / their Dragon a freeholding lord under Accords? What's the Accorded status of Vegas?
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Yes, it is.
 
[X] No, everything has been dealt with

uju32 said:
And we will kill the Red Court when we can do it expeditiously, and have a plan for handling the aftermath.
We do not have the power to do so now.
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Even if we had the power, we don't have the AP. Also, most of our Circle needs serious downtime for healing and recovery.
BoredMan said:
Sooner or later there will be the dreaded War Arc.
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We have a faster rate of growth than pretty much anyone else. We have major crafted upgrades for our Circle planned. The longer we go before the War Arc, the better prepared for it we'll be.
 
uju32 said:
Yeah, we're not going to agree about this.
I just cant countenance the idea that the Fae would not care about precedent.
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The Fey?

You mean, the faction that sent us here to take care of this problem via Maeve?

These Fey?

Why would they care if we do our job thoroughly?

We could decide to kill all the reds, not just the suspects, and they wouldn't bat an eye, wouldn't want to take risks and all that.

Seriously, why would the Winter Court be against us for doing what they asked us to do?
 
@DragonParadox Where did the Rampires we were going to attack the tunnels with come from? Were they ever based in the tunnels? Earlier you said that the Reds never told us about the FleshRoom so it must be recent and I assumed you meant the recruited ones.
 
@DragonParadox, a question since the vote is getting closer:

Will you count the votes take care of loose ends with subvotes to summon Maeve with the ones without, or not?

Because if the subvote make my vote not count with the rest I'm changing it to not summoning Maeve.

Let's make sure to finish the job we were sent to do.
 
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BoredMan said:
@DragonParadox Where did the Rampires we were going to attack the tunnels with come from? Were they ever based in the tunnels? Earlier you said that the Reds never told us about the FleshRoom so it must be recent and I assumed you meant the recruited ones.
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Their own houses and places of business, I said the Red Court had retreated into the tunnels, but some of their forward facing businesses like the Xanadu continued to operate, not to mention the human trafficking which is their major source of blood. Someone had to keep the lights on

Nyarky said:
@DragonParadox, a question since the vote is getting closer:

Will you count the votes take care of loose ends with subvotes to summon Maeve with the ones without, or not?

Because if the subvote make my vote not count with the rest I'm changing it to not summoning Maeve.

Let's make sure to finish the job we were sent to do.
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A subvote that does not gain more than 50% of its parent vote does not go through, but the main vote does.
 
uju32 said:
But yeah, thats me
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This proves my point then. You have a tendency to take into account the worst possible case scenario and then convince the thread to act on it regardless of how probable it actually is based on the text given to us in the damn story.

I want to stress this.

Were it up to you we wouldn't have brought troops down into the tunnels with us at all. The troops who did more damage to the Dragon than we did, the troops who allowed us to take out the FleshRoom in 1-2 turns, the troops who defended Dresden when he was about to die. Without them Sandra probably would have escaped and someone probably would've died to Outsiders rather than it just being close.

Then you would've used that as justification for holding our troops back for a possible later confrontation with Sandra when as we can clearly see based on the recent updates, bringing them down with us, instead of holding them back for the mere possibility of the worst case scenario(she escapes anyway and we need them later for the surprise factor), allowed us to take advantage of an opportunity to secure the win.

Taking into account the most severe possibilities is important but to constantly make crucial decisions based on them and not factor in how likely they actually are is restrictive as all hell.

Edit: Word choice.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Artemis1992 on Feb 24, 2024 at 4:26 AM, finished with 234 posts and 32 votes.
  • [x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    [X] No, everything has been dealt with
    [X]Plan Red be gone
    -[X]Buy Night Shallows Secrets (•••) and Broadcast Announcement Prana (•) for 13 XP
    -[X]Use intimidation exultancy 1 mote + Demonic Primacy of Essence + Sig
    -[X]Stunt: "One moment please" As the Dragon's body cools you feel your self brimming with authority you let it burst out and every speaker in Las Vegas rings with your voice. "Attention the Local leader of the Red Court in Las Vegas has just been executed for consorting with outsiders and conspiring to destroy the world. As a result all members of the Red Court are hereby banished from the city of Las Vegas. You have 28 days to sell off your local property before you are found out of compliance." You turn back to your phone. "Sorry about that now there are no more loose ends".
    -[X] Then use Night Shallows Secrets to stop people from talking about you disturbing the peace.
    -[x] Yes, there are still some loose ends to handle
    -[x] Summon Maeve to ask her how much outsider fraternizing is too much outsider fraternizing.
    [X] Plan exile
    -[X] Do not commit to murder. The goal is to remove Red Court from Vegas, so options like forcing them to sell their properties and leave should be on the table
    [X] Maeve, Maeve, Maeve, I summon thee.
    [X]Plan Painting the town not Red
    -[X]Summon Maeve and Lily offer them the chance for a fun girl's night out.
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Still a clear lead.
 
Yog said:
So... potentially Harrowmont as the new Dragon - what do people think of the possibility?
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Artemis1992 said:
Kinda depends on what the Sin-Eater's blessing does for you.

If he goes full Mage, he might make it.
If he just becomes a better Sorcerer, he'll be dead in a year.
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Considering the dragon had access to antideluvian level disciplines. I think increasing a person's magical potential is directly a thing it can do. So full Mage is definitely on the cards and I actually rather like the idea having a acting free holding Lord that is a citizen of Vegas but not directly attached to the federal government that owes us for his position and his new Magic is really cool and good actually.
 
Yog said:
@DragonParadox what is the dot rating of a splendor we can make from Dragon's corpse? And is transformed Orpheus useful for splendor crafting?
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  1. Well it is the equivalent of a Fourth Generation, powers and all so 3 dots base.
  2. No on Orpheus, he was definitely scary, but mostly because of the thing inside him
Degorium said:
Considering the dragon had access to antideluvian level disciplines. I think increasing a person's magical potential is directly a thing it can do. So full Mage is definitely on the cards and I actually rather like the idea having a acting free holding Lord that is a citizen of Vegas but not directly attached to the federal government that owes us for his position and his new Magic is really cool and good actually.
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Methuselah not antediluvian, 9 not 10.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Kinda depends on what the Sin-Eater's blessing does for you.

If he goes full Mage, he might make it.
If he just becomes a better Sorcerer, he'll be dead in a year.
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Would be a good opportunity for the White Council to station some forces in the area, including someone to teach Harrowmont how to use magic in combat. It's now a former stronghold of the Reds in the US, so it would make sense if the WC moved in to keep them from re-establishing themselves there.

Or we could arrange for Lara to move a bunch of Whampires into the area to assist Harrowmont. I'm sure they would fit in well enough in Vegas. The existing Whampires probably wouldn't be happy with the newcomers, but who cares about that?
 
Goldfish said:
Would be a good opportunity for the White Council to station some forces in the area, including someone to teach Harrowmont how to use magic in combat. It's now a former stronghold of the Reds in the US, so it would make sense if the WC moved in to keep them from re-establishing themselves there.

Or we could arrange for Lara to move a bunch of Whampires into the area to assist Harrowmont. I'm sure they would fit in well enough in Vegas. The existing Whampires probably wouldn't be happy with the newcomers, but who cares about that?
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For the first part, I doubt it.
Vegas is part of Ramirez territory, so he might be here more often now, but otherwise it doesn't look like they can spare permenantly stationed Wardens.

For the latter, if Big Corey remains the local boss, I doubt he'd have issues with more assets.
 
@DragonParadox my bad mistaking Methuselah's for pre-flood vampires. Also is Tass a thing in Dresden Files because one of the things we can make splendors and Prodigies out of is tass but the rules for tass are confusing to read and understand and also I don't know if it's a thing in quest?
 
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