Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Alratan · Feb 22, 2024

Fomor in our hell seem to be able to be possessed by more than one devil.

Particularly as here DP has made the charm awaken a person's P'o rather than have be possessed by an external devil.

It seems like it would make sense for bakemono to be able to have the former happen.

uju32 · Feb 22, 2024

Acolyte said:
Unless you want to argue McCoy can shoot dbz blasts its very much going to be ritual magics and it was a metor, they have fragmets and stuff. And he demonstrates a love for orbital bombardment.

Uh, yes?
Changes Chapter 46

Green lightning split the sky, erupting with such a burst of thunder that the ground shook. Instead of fading, though, the thunder grew louder as more and more strokes of lightning flared out from the area of sky where Lea's gem had exploded into light.
Then a sheet of a dozen separate green bolts of lightning fell all at the same time onto the ground of the ball court twenty yards away, blowing smoking craters in the ground.
It took my dazzled eyes a few seconds to recover from that, and when they did, my heart almost stopped.
Standing on the ball court were twelve figures.
Twelve people in shapeless grey robes. Grey cloaks. Grey hoods.
And every single one of them held a wizard's staff in one hand.
The Grey Council.
The Grey Council!
The nearest figure was considerably shorter than me and stout, but he stood with his feet planted as if he intended to move the world. He lifted his staff, smote it on the ground, then boomed, "Remember Archangel!" He spoke a single, resonating word as he thrust the tip of the implement at the Red King and the Lords of Outer Night.
The second floor of the stadium-temple where they stood . . . simply exploded. A force hit the ancient structure like an enormous bulldozer blade rushing forward at Mach 2. It smashed into the temple. Stone screamed. The Red King, the Lords of Outer Night, and several thousand tons of the temple's structure went flying back through the air with enough violent energy to send a shock wave rebounding from the point of impact.
The massive display of force brought a second of stunned silence to the field—and I was just as slack-jawed as anyone.
Then I threw back my head and let out a primal scream of triumph and glee. The Grey Council had come.
We were not alone.

When I say that you arent really grokking the power involved when a Dresdenverse archmage-equivalent feels free to cut loose somewhere there's no collateral he cares about.....

Acolyte said:
We know this, financial power and ritual magic. They certainly don't have archmages, as evidenced by any such wizards blasting the vampires to death in the war.

You know what the would have been the result of the attempt on all wizards by the red king. Some archmage turning a gram of air a 100 kilometere above the ritual site into antimatter and channeling thay explosion into lance of radiation and death.
Not a desperate battle.

1)See above. That wasnt ritual magic.
They do have archmages. Masters of combat evocation, even. There's a reason why the hidden goal of Dead Beat was supposed to be to kill the Senior Council, the seven most obvious archmages in the Council, and its strategic deterrent.

2) Thats not true. That you think that, even if they could, the White Council would use magic to pop 43 kilotons of Oppenheimer's light in a human populated area speaks to your not really understanding what the Council is about.
They are not the Traditions, or the Technocracy.

Furthermore, the Red Court explicitly used a bioweapon on the Council to paralyze them during that period, so unlike you, they actually did think that trying something like this with an intact Council was...unwise.

3)Spheres =/= Rotes.
Access to Spheres 6+ does not automatically translate to throwing around obvious Sphere 6 rotes.
In fact, Im pretty sure that one of the Forces 6 effects is basically "Perform Spheres that are 5 and below much more efficiently."

The fact that Im Intelligence 5 does not automatically make me a chess grandmaster, nor would being one of the best code monkeys in the world automatically make me great at coding videogames.
Its still a skill that has to be learned.

This is not the World of Darkness, where the Ascension War has raged for centuries between the Traditions and Technocracy, driving innovation in ever more incredible means of conveying death.

In the Dresdenverse, the wizards are a united body.
Nobody has had a particular need to create ever more sophisticated means of killing other humans; hell, killing humans is explicitly a Laws violations. And killing supernaturals doesnt require much innovation.

Artemis1992 said:
Interesting.
And I just found out that the search function doesn't work in that document for me.
That seems worth buying, though unlike reflexive counterspelling we would have to split actions for that, I think?

And yes, we would have to split actions for it.
But if Molly buys Rage Recast: Extra Limbs, she eliminates the dice penalty from extra actions.
Plus, I think its one of those things that can benefit from teamwork.

Acolyte · Feb 22, 2024

uju32 said:
When I say that you arent really grokking the power involved when a Dresdenverse archmage-equivalent feels free to cut loose somewhere there's no collateral he cares about..

That's trivial in comparison. Have you seen the scale of tungaska blast.

"After the blast, 1287 square kilometres of forest were flattened, with 80,000,000 trees felled - clearing an area larger than London. The trees fell away from the blast centre, lying in a radial position. The impact was heard up to 1000 km away, while seismic shockwaves were even registered as far away as England"

A single stadium temple is literally less then a percent of that.

Blowing up a building no matter how large doesn't make you an archmage. You need to be Fundamentally much stronger than that.

uju32 said:
1)See above.

See my response to above.

uju32 said:
2) Thats not true. That you think that, even if they could, the White Council would use magic to pop 43 kilotons of Oppenheimer's light in a human populated area speaks to your not really understanding what the Council is about.
They are not the Traditions, or the Technocracy.

Chichen itza is a ruin as far as i know.

uju32 said:
Furthermore, the Red Court explicitly used a bioweapon on the Council to paralyze them during that period, so unlike you, they actually did think that trying something like this with an intact Council was...unwise

Something that shouldn't have worked if they had real archmahes or even masters of the life sphere. What was the listens to wind doing.

uju32 said:
And killing supernaturals doesnt require much innovation

They got brought to their knees by one of the weakest vampires i have ever seen.

DragonParadox · Feb 22, 2024

Alratan said:
Fomor in our hell seem to be able to be possessed by more than one devil.

Particularly as here DP has made the charm awaken a person's P'o rather than have be possessed by an external devil.

It seems like it would make sense for bakemono to be able to have the former happen.

Well they are not possessed so much as cohabiting/integrated with the spirits of their implants, or (for the non-technological meldings) investing their chakras with helpful/allied spirits. In a very, very primitive sense one could see this as implanting faux-charms,

DragonParadox · Feb 22, 2024

Good night guys, see you in the morning with... well whatever you guys end up voting as we near the end of the arc (finally).

BoredMan · Feb 22, 2024

BoredMan said:
This seems about right.

Taking from the first part of my list here. The second half can wait depending on how it pans out. Not sure if we should use a social excellency for Charon. No one has posted a plan yet so let's get it started.

[X] Plan: Wrapping things up.
-[X] Check in on the Sin-Eater and the state of the Gate.
-[X] Have the Hand loot the place while we are talking and prep to be taken back to Sanctuary for med evac. Tell them not to touch the Outsider Hourglass just in case.
-[X] Question Charon. Activate All Things Betray to get a better grasp of his intent.
-[X] See if the city wide chaos spell is still in effect.
-[X] Contact Von Trier. Let her know that the crisis is averted and only cleanup remains.

Goldfish · Feb 22, 2024

[X] BoredMan

BronzeTongue · Feb 22, 2024

fictionfan said:
We really could use a taunt ability. Also it doesn't seem like these enemies were actually fighting to win. Let's say that they succeed in killing all our allies what where they planning on doing about the extremely pissed off Molly?

The hand agents did more to the dragon fetishist than we did, if we lost our support they could have turned the tide.

fictionfan said:
Unless it does 7 health levels of damage it wouldn't have mattered in this fight. Molly was already able to one hit kill each outsider grappling her. Human grapplers might be put off by a bit of fire outsiders are not.

Yeah, damage is probably the wrong way to do this. I maintain a prodigy is a better idea because it can cover the breadth of mortal magic as long as the design is clever regardless of our ability in the closest approximate magic skill. Remember that blocking the sight is something they can do if we pay enough for it, and that's no joke.

Spiky bracelets/arm guards that somehow always find the right place to stab, cursing our opponent's grapple roll, is exactly the sort of thing they're for.

As a narrow and specific combat effect that gives a significant advantage over people who don't know you have it such an enchantment seems like a textbook 3 dot to me.

Since it gives an invisibility cloak as an example I'd be tempted to make it mechanically similar. +2 difficulty to any grapple attempt instead of actions dependent on vision. Or alternatively, they autocorrect our awful form and give us -2 to resisting.

Which is a lot, but ultimately less crazy than the cloak because it's not effecting anything as important as vision is to most things people do and it only does anything while an opponent actively chooses to engage in that domain.

Honestly laid out like that I can see the argument that the restricting the effect in that manner should be enough to qualify as a flaw to buy down the price to 2 dots. Similar to how the example it gives of a flashlight that emits true sunlight and a fixed doorway that does the same.

Another potentially fun solution is a tiny knife or perhaps gloves with bladed nails that's enchanted to allow us to use melee to defend against grapple/clinch maneuvers. Also pretty conditional and reactive so it seems potentially viable to me.

If none of that works, how about a horrifying spider squid emanation with friendly little 8 yard counter hugging tentacles*?

I prefer a solution like this because it makes use of our existing abilities without forcing us to pay through the nose to be less bad at something we only really care about for defense.

I'm sure a splendor would work, but I'd prefer to leave that for things we can't accomplish with lesser items since they're our most costly builds.

*

5 dot arcana (emanation)
Base Features:

Elongated Reach: Perhaps the Arcana has tentacles. Perhaps it can stretch its limbs. Perhaps it
has an obscenely long neck, or arms. Perhaps its limbs are actually many, many arms joined
together in a crackling network of joints. Whatever the case, it can take appropriate actions
against targets or objects up to 8 yards away.

Manifold Limbs: The Arcana possesses a multitude of arms and/or legs. By spending a point
of Willpower, it can take an extra action at the end of each turn.

Malleable: Perhaps the Arcana is made from living clay, or is an ephemera formed of animate
smoke. Perhaps its body is a nanoswarm that can recombine itself. Perhaps she's a bunch of little
pieces of corpses held together with string and spells. Whatever the case, the Arcana can slither,
squirm, disjoint or discorporate her body to gain great flexibility. The difficulty of all rolls to
squeeze through tight spaces, escape from bonds, or gain control of a clinch with the intent to
immediately escape from it are reduced by two.

Integrated Weapons: The Arcana's body is incorporates some sort of deadly weaponry such
as metal fists, claws, fangs, horns, or sharpened bone protrusions. Her Brawl attacks inflict
Strength + 1 lethal damage

Ooze: The Arcana is coated in some sort of natural lubricant, such as a sheath of elemental
water, a or a gruesome layer of mephitic rot. The difficulty of all grapple attempts against the
Arcana increases to 8.

Divine Favor: The Arcana gains a Favored Ability, which may be raised as high as 6 dots.
Increasing the Arcana's Favored Ability only costs one freebie point per dot.

Arcana Flaws:

Hideous (1 pt. Flaw)
The Arcana's appearance is monstrous, revolting, or terrifying. Its Appearance is permanently
rated at 0. Horrors can take this Flaw, and usually do, but it awards no points for them.

No Mouth (2 pt. Flaw)
The Arcana lacks the necessary anatomy for easy communication. It can still understand speech,
and it could speak if it possessed the proper facilities to do so, but alas, it doesn't. It can still
communicate effectively with its master through pantomime.

Bonus features:

Telepathy: The Arcana can project its thoughts into the minds of other nearby people to
communicate with them. It can communicate with its master across up to (Arcana rating x 100
miles) of distance. By spending a point of Willpower, it can also receive communications from
someone… or, to put it another way, it actively reads their surface thoughts for the rest of the
scene. The target can always sense this, and can shut the Arcana out by spending a point of
Willpower.

Superior Body: The Arcana gains three additional dots of Physical Attributes, which may
increase its traits to 6. Taking this Feature a second time provides only two bonus dots, but raises
the permitted cap to 7.

X2

Merits:

Long Fingers Your fingers are unnaturally long and spidery. You gain one extra die to Dice Pools involving digital coordination or grappling. (CB: NOS1)

Precognition You have the ability to perceive events before they happen. This ability is not under your control. The premonitions come to you when you least expect them. The focus of the premonitions is not under your control either. This ability can greatly impact the story, and the exact nature of the effects is left up to the Storyteller. This merit should not be used ot cause problems in the game, but to intensify the experience through additional drama. (PGS)

4 dots, focus set to things physically threatening their protectee.

Tough Hide Your skin is thick and leathery, resembling that of a pachyderm. You gain one extra die on your soak Dice Pool (though not to soak fire and sunlight). (CB: NOS1)

2 dots
Cite

Actually statline to be done later.

Description:
Mr. Snuggles is what might politely be called a tangled squid-spider primarily made up of nearly countless limbs reaching out to at most 8 yards, though he's curled up into a much smaller footprint when manifested.

On a closer look it becomes apparent that Mr. Snuggles doesn't so much have limbs as he is limbs. Countless heavily jointed legs, boneless tentacles, gripping claws, and more alien things still seem to have simply twisted themselves together into a shape they find comfortable, and periodically reconfigure in a way that makes most loose their lunch to see. Typically around the time he starts experimenting with finger placement.

Despite appearances Mr. Snuggles is monstrously strong, knowing exactly how to use his unique form to worm his way into and out of nearly any grapple.

He is also totally mute, and communicates solely through telepathy. While he can use this to communicate in common tongues he find it vastly more comfortable to transmit the subliminal intent behind his body language while performing his own unique form of sign language, as the spoken word is alien to him.

This can be somewhat unsettling for the unprepared, as you may find yourself simply understanding convoluted gestures requiring far too many joints as if they're the most intuitive thing in the world.

His job would be to sit around unmanifested, then pop into existence and counter grapple for us. Also to instill as much regret as possible in people more psychologically vulnerable than outsiders who try grapple shenanigans.

uju32 · Feb 22, 2024

Artemis1992 said:
Don't think you can buy those.
Also for Lore of Awakening, she would technically need someone or something to learn it from, unless DP allows her to skip that part of learning out-of-house Lores?

I think you can.
Not gonna step on the QMs shoes with this one, but it is one of the options in Demon Player's Guide that you can replace your current Form powers with others, or buy others but only manifest 8 at a time.

There's even options for manifesting more than 8 Powers at a time, or ignoring the Torment mechanic, but I dont think the QM is going with those.

As for Lores, the QM will tell us which ones are allowed and which ones arent.
The mechanics dont really matter; its entirely possible that she wakes up and remembers it.
We can just be sure that the Lore of the Forge wont be an option.

Acolyte said:
That's trivial in comparison. Have you seen the scale of tungaska blast.

1)Yes, and?
You said that Ebenezar couldnt throw DBZ blasts, and I show a canon citation where we explicitly see him doing so in blasting the top half off a stone pyramid.

The fact that he's also supposed to be at least partly responsible for Tunguska just further burnishes his credentials as (one of)the fuck things up guys. And we have no indication that he's particularly unique in his class.

2)There is no canon evidence for Tunguska being a ritual effect; you are just making an assumption.
Ebenezar said no such thing.
Not a stupid assumption, mind, but an unsupported assumption nonetheless.

Acolyte said:
Chichen itza is a ruin as far as i know.

Tourist locations have human settlements nearby offering services to visitors.
The center of Piste, a village with a permanent population of ~5000 people, is around 2.4km by foot from Chitchen Itza.
You can see it on Google or Bing Maps.

And the Reds explicitly had hundreds of human prisoners we see on site in Changes, some of them earmarked as ritual sacrifices, with the others being refreshments.
They were the people who beat the surviving Red servitors to death after Dresden wiped out the Red Court.

Acolyte said:
Something that shouldn't have worked if they had real archmahes or even masters of the life sphere. What was the listens to wind doing.

......
You DO realize that Red Court has been playing pattycakes with Outsiders and black wizards and other, silent partners since this war started, right? You do know that the first place we see Cowl was at Bianca's party in Grave Peril chapter 29, right?
That the attempted Darkhallow was coordinated with the Kemmlerites, right?

Why the unholy fuck do you think it was Red Court work?
Even the chemical WMD they used in Africa came from the Fomor.

Acolyte said:
They got brought to their knees by one of the weakest vampires i have ever seen.

Your opinion, of course.
This is the Dresdenverse. Power comes in different forms. And the Council is NOT the Technocracy.

BronzeTongue · Feb 22, 2024

Even the base game designers hate the idea of the archspheres and think they're bad lore with worse mechanics.

Think about that for a second; White Wolf game devs thinks they're broken and bad for the base game. They aren't ret conned out of existence, but given that they're at best discouraged I don't see why we should use them.

They simply give too much on too broad a level where a mage can achieve specific feats with the right focus without getting all of the stupid nonsense as a side dish. Here's a thread with some interesting citations in it on the topic if you don't just want to take Holden's input.

They shouldn't exist in their own game line, much less here.

DragonParadox · Feb 22, 2024

If White Wolf thinks something is silly I am going to go out on a limb and say it is probably very silly.

Arette over 5 does exist in this setting though.

Tsotate · Feb 22, 2024

DragonParadox said:
If White Wolf thinks something is silly I am going to go out on a limb and say it is probably very silly.

Counterexample: Putting useful indices in your books is not silly, but White Wolf sure seems to think it is.

Degorium · Feb 22, 2024

Tsotate said:
Counterexample: Putting useful indices in your books is not silly, but White Wolf sure seems to think it is.

But there's the thing about the arch spheres the first two dots of the arch spheres in pretty much any of them directly make you an equal to God if you have that sphere.

The 6th dot of forces makes you all knowing. Because the language doesn't differentiate between paradigms which means if you have a materialistic Paradigm Every Spark of someone's Consciousness across their brain matter can be interpreted and understood every step they take every move they make every word they say and it says you can see across the entire universe from the spirit world out the movement of the Stars every atom that is agitated by the heat every stray Neutron moved across the mass every wave of gravitation that every pulse of light are known to you with just that sixth Dot.

The 6th and 7th dot of spirit means that you can create a new category of spirit like say the Elohim and create new spiritual realms like the Silver City or the jotnar and jotenheim. The sixth dot of Matter allows you to turn an entire city of people into pillars of sand just flat out it allows you to transmute matter of large area into any form of aggregate that you want to.

There's a reason everyone other than @uju32 has said there are no Arch Mages in the Mage the Ascension sense because in Dresden Files there is no one who is shown to be in any sense and equal to Capital G God.

Edit: the 6th and 7th dot of entropy allow you to at 6th completely write the fate of everything in the area there is nothing that you cannot control no outcome that you cannot will nothing that will not happen that you do not wish it to or you can make a completely chaos filled area where cause and effect don't exist. At the 7th you can just say it is God's plan your God's plan everything happens for a reason the karmic path is set there is only one way, your way.

fictionfan · Feb 22, 2024

I was reading the fomori charms and I noticed

Whispering blessings and curses that are indistinguishable from one another, the Infernal drowns amortal, then draws them forth from the waters alive and transformed into a monster.
System: Spend 3 Essence while holding someone underwater until he drowns. Once the victim stops moving, they Infernal may draw him forth; as he breaks the water's surface, he is revived and transformed by the infusion of hellish energies, becoming a bakemono– a sort of monster that shapeshifters know as fomori. Rules for fomori can be found on pages 428-439 ofW20. If the Infernal has any affection, admiration, or regard for the individual at all, she may choose one of the following elements and guarantee that it will not bescarred by the transformation: his looks, his health, or his mind. If she dislikes or hates the one she drowns, she may instead choose one of the above elements and guarantee that it will be ruined by his rebirth.

Doesn't actually say that the target has to be mortal or any other specification besides that they must drown. Of course drowning the person is a bit traumatic and it doesn't really matter. But well people in thread have been saying for long time that only Spawning Pit Sanctification (••••) can be used on anything and I had just never bothered to check until now.

In fact even

Monsters lurk in every heart. Empowering a person's inner darkness, the Infernal makes that monster
real. She must approach a mortal and breathe into
their mouth to use this Charm. Her victim's shadow
twists and distorts, becoming a demon of Kakuri before climbing into the target's flesh and inflicting a
brief, agonizing transformation.
System: Spend 3 Essence while within kissing distance of the target. Over the course of a few minutes
of indescribably painful transformation, the Charm's
victim becomes a bakemono – a sort of monster that
shapeshifters know as fomori. Rules for fomori can be
found on pages 428-439 of W20. The Infernal may reclaim her gift of inner darkness, making the bakemono
human again, but this inflicts a number of levels of
aggravated damage equal to (7 - the Essence the Exalt
opts to spend undoing her curse).

Doesn't say that the target has to be human except by implication when it talks about turning them back.

Anaja · Feb 22, 2024

Acolyte said:
We can't do this again man. We had this in the last quest, we got to innovate, come up with new shit.

That might have happened in the last quest, but I had no involvement in the slightest with that one. I don't even know which you're referring to, and could only narrow it down to likely being one of the six in DP's signature.

I'm interested in this quest, and whatever may or may not have happened in some other quest has no bearing on what seems like an idea to go with here.

fictionfan · Feb 22, 2024

Incidentally we are talking about Molly's 'weakness' to grappling, but really she isn't. These were just really powerful custom made grapplers. In order for this tactic to be done on us you need a large amount of grapplers who are

Expendable. Molly was killing one a turn. I am actually surprised the outsiders are so willing to expend normally immortal minions.
Dedicated and immune to fear. See the above about Molly killing one per turn. Each grappler has to know that they die next.
Immune to the attacks of our other allies. The grapples would not have mattered if the outsiders grappling us kept being cut down by plasma before Molly's turn came back around.

This is not a tactic that most groups can just pull off on the fly.

Goldfish · Feb 22, 2024

Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Feb 22, 2024 at 9:29 PM, finished with 70 posts and 4 votes.

2 people have voted
[X] Phone Von Trier, tell her the situation has been resolved for the most part, all that's left is clean up
- fictionfan
- NinjaOfOrthanc
2 people have voted
[X] Plan: Wrapping things up.
-[X] Check in on the Sin-Eater and the state of the Gate.
-[X] Have the Hand loot the place while we are talking and prep to be taken back to Sanctuary for med evac. Tell them not to touch the Outsider Hourglass just in case.
-[X] Question Charon. Activate All Things Betray to get a better grasp of his intent.
-[X] See if the city wide chaos spell is still in effect.
-[X] Contact Von Trier. Let her know that the crisis is averted and only cleanup remains.
- BoredMan
- Goldfish

fictionfan · Feb 22, 2024

[X] Plan: Wrapping things up.

Anaja · Feb 22, 2024

[X] Plan: Wrapping things up.

Works for me.

BronzeTongue · Feb 22, 2024

Tsotate said:
Counterexample: Putting useful indices in your books is not silly, but White Wolf sure seems to think it is.

Different domain. For this purpose we don't care about how well they can organize a book, but rather their opinions an experience with their own products.

If White Wolf game devs, who've written some of the craziest mechanics of any game company with more than two employees, think something is too powerful and too incongruent with the way their settings work you know it's bad.

fictionfan said:
Incidentally we are talking about Molly's 'weakness' to grappling, but really she isn't. These were just really powerful custom made grapplers. In order for this tactic to be done on us you need a large amount of grapplers who are

Expendable. Molly was killing one a turn. I am actually surprised the outsiders are so willing to expend normally immortal minions.

Dedicated and immune to fear. See the above about Molly killing one per turn. Each grappler has to know that they die next.

Immune to the attacks of our other allies. The grapples would not have mattered if the outsiders grappling us kept being cut down by plasma before Molly's turn came back around.

This is not a tactic that most groups can just pull off on the fly.

True, but it did actually accomplish something so the outsiders will probably try to use and improve the trick.

BronzeTongue · Feb 22, 2024

fictionfan said:
Doesn't actually say that the target has to be mortal or any other specification besides that they must drown. Of course drowning the person is a bit traumatic and it doesn't really matter. But well people in thread have been saying for long time that only Spawning Pit Sanctification (••••) can be used on anything and I had just never bothered to check until now

Just because it doesn't repeat the word mortal in the system text doesn't mean it's not relevant to the targeting of the charm.

KonradC · Feb 22, 2024

[X] Plan: Wrapping things up.

Acolyte · Feb 22, 2024

uju32 said:
2)There is no canon evidence for Tunguska being a ritual effect; you are just making an assumption.

Because its multiple magnitude more power than any wizard has ever evoked.

uju32 said:
Why the unholy fuck do you think it was Red Court work?
Even the chemical WMD they used in Africa came from the Fomor.

Not my point. My point an archmage of any sphere would have been able to deal with it.

Anaja said:
That might have happened in the last quest, but I had no involvement in the slightest with that one. I don't even know which you're referring to, and could only narrow it down to likely being one of the six in DP's signature.

I'm interested in this quest, and whatever may or may not have happened in some other quest has no bearing on what seems like an idea to go with here.

We did summoning and then sacrificing devils in a sword without a hilt. On a an industrilized scale.

fictionfan · Feb 22, 2024

If we had Spawning Pit Sanctification (••••) right this second would we throw Sandra in? Then again she still might count as mortal enough for Inner Darkness Unchained to work on her.

Artemis1992 · Feb 23, 2024

uju32 said:
2)There is no canon evidence for Tunguska being a ritual effect; you are just making an assumption.
Ebenezar said no such thing.
Not a stupid assumption, mind, but an unsupported assumption nonetheless.

It's a very good assumption to make.
Let's look at M20 for the successes needed:

Godlike Feat
20 and beyond(Rewriting your own Pattern permanently, incinerating cities, conjuring monstrous hordes, enslaving hundreds of people

You need at least 20 successes for a city-destroying effect.

Blasting apart a temple in Chichen Itza is something a group of powerful Mages can easily do, especially when working together.

Destroying the entire city would definitely have required a ritual.

Blowing up Tunguska was beyond even that in firepower, and if McCoy did it by himself, he definitely needed a Ritual to gather something like 50+ successes.
Unless killing the Dragon was actually a much less involved matter and the explosion was just the consequence of its death. This was the Dragon responsible for creating/maintaining the concept of Explosion or something like that.

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority

Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Please sir, may I have some Meows?