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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
EDIT: Also, we should check if there are starborn among our citizens.
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How could there possibly be? We don't have stars in our sky.
LightLan said:
IIRC only we have higher initiative than the dragon, so he'd get one more turn to try something unless we kill him.
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He should be in the penalty zone now? Then again that doesn't tend to be a problem for our enemies they all have ways to ignore wound penalties.
 
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uju32 said:
No it cant, simply on the basis of the existence of the Red Court.
The Technocracy would not coexist with the Red Court running Latin America. Hell, the Technocracy would not coexist with the White Council. Or the Denarians.
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Back room deals Harry was never invited to; the technocracy is what Ferromancy was really referring to.

I don't think this is actually the case, but archspheres have exactly the same sort of cannot coexist issues. If the technocrats can't coexist off screen because their existence should have intruded earlier then archmages of that type should as well.
uju32 said:
We didnt make any promises, but we prefer her alive.
We have questions, and its easier to get them out of a living person. Crown questions have limits when pointed at a corpse
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We did actually make a promise, but we added a payment on delivery clause. So we can fail formal issue, but it's still technically failing to fulfill a bargain.

I'll take this sort of ding to our credit score, but its important not to equate this sort of thing with not having made a promise at all. Primarily because if Maeve feels like being a bitch there are technically only some forms of failure that are valid.
 
Imagine things from the Dragon's perspective:

All your machinations have laid undetected, your hour of glorious freedom is nigh-

Wait shit heroes are coming to gank you, well no worries you have allies you have a plan here they come now roar and let them cower before your majesty-

What did that just give them a morale boost-

OH SHIT MOLLY CARPENTER'S ON YOUR FUCKING BACK OW OW OW HELP-

Thank fuck your ally just buffed you enormously, ignore how she buffed you-

DAMN IT SHE'S STILL CUTTING YOU APART GET HER OFF-

Don't look at the Outsiders helping you, don't look at the unreal spawns of horror, don't worry you've got other problems at least she's off-

ARGGHH WHY DO FLASHLIGHTS HURT SINCE WHEN WERE LASERS A THING-

Literally contributed nothing in the fight to his side and already almost dead. Molly's a quick murderblender but he's also been such a disappointment.
 
BronzeTongue said:
I'll take this sort of ding to our credit score
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But why? If we have no other choice that's one thing but the Outsiders are planning on breaking the masquerade and the fact that this plan was even able to get so far in the first place is odd as hell. The Knights of the Cross aren't here when this is their thing or anyone else who doesn't want to see the Outsiders win for that matter. Sandra is our best lead as to what the hell is going on right now if we can take her in alive we should.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM with occult excellency if he's a valid target
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.

I'm not sure if he's actually immortal in the right way for Molly to eat, but both charms are reflexive so I don't think we need to commit to the spend until after we know if he is.

They're trying to keep him whole, so we should overkill as much as possible in case they've given other protections. Even in that case success is still essence positive.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
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fictionfan said:
I want Shadow Spite Curse now that we know that actually isn't considered overpowered.
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I prefer that as well. The "miniboss" squad is going to be worse than experts we can draw from our hell by default and we have to pay out the nose to make them better. Cause they spawn new on the spot so we can't make them fomori in advance or something. Which means we need to spend exp and clone time learning shit that's good out of the box for mortals and isn't applicable to Molly herself.

The base charm has its uses, but as a signature it's still trash.
 
Yeah without the excellency because I don't think we need it and we have like 2 essence left.

[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
LightLan said:
I'd like DragonParadox's take on the interpretation of the word normal before we vote for that.
Normal may very well mean only the mortal form the base state of the charm grants.
I don't think us suddenly gaining 4-5x exalted Molly's with their own essence pool is something we'll get past our QM.
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Thats essentially what the plain language of the charm appears to say.
And its certainly appropriate for a 5-dot charm's Signature. Compared to the planetful of soldiers.
But fair enough.
BronzeTongue said:
Back room deals Harry was never invited to; the technocracy is what Ferromancy was really referring to.

I don't think this is actually the case, but archspheres have exactly the same sort of cannot coexist issues. If the technocrats can't coexist off screen because their existence should have intruded earlier then archmages of that type should as well.
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The Technocracy does secret. It doesnt do subtle.:V

Arch-Spheres, on the other hand, DO do subtle. And in a setting where there was no Ascension War, and thus none of the pressure of the arms race between the Traditions and the Technocracy exist?
Yeah, I can see Arch-Spheres about and remain lowkey.

I mean, the Fae freaking exist.

If the setting works fine in a setting where the Fae have explicitly made the city of Milwaukee vanish for two hours in 1994, replacing the entire river valley its situated in with primordial forest as the accidental backlash of a real world confrontation between the major Courts, the idea that Arch-Spheres are too destabilizing isnt too convincing to me.

BronzeTongue said:
We did actually make a promise, but we added a payment on delivery clause. So we can fail formal issue, but it's still technically failing to fulfill a bargain.

I'll take this sort of ding to our credit score, but its important not to equate this sort of thing with not having made a promise at all. Primarily because if Maeve feels like being a bitch there are technically only some forms of failure that are valid.
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Ah. Fair enough.
Thankfully, its not going to be necessary.
BronzeTongue said:
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM with occult excellency if he's a valid target
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.

I'm not sure if he's actually immortal in the right way for Molly to eat, but both charms are reflexive so I don't think we need to commit to the spend until after we know if he is. They're trying to keep him whole, so we should overkill as much as possible in case they've given other protections. Even in that case success is still essence positive.
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*checks*
Molly has only 2/15 Essence left.
You probably dont want to burn one of those on an unnecessary Excellency, especially since Molly is going to need to refresh her Melee Excellency to kill the Dragon and murderblend the remaining Outsiders.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Let's not waste Essence on an Excellency?

MiM is free, so that's fine, but Occult is not necessary.
Especially since DP has already said that we probably don't even need MiM.
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Excellency is reflexive and can be procced on a relevant roll. My thought here is that we can attempt MiM and if it gives us a valid roll turn on excellency so that we don't waste it if he's rampire enough not to qualify.

I want to do it in the first place because we've got to deal with charms being straightforward to counter now*. If a master blampire with no idea we're involved can set up a ritual targeted at a different but related problem to being chewed on by an exalt that somehow covers us then the outside can damn well do the same on purpose.

MiM might as well have an essence cost because it's highly unlikely to work on anything stronger than a trash mob going forward.

* Which I still think is bull. The way the rules are being applied here is the worst of all worlds for us because anyone worth actually fighting can sacrifice a thousand rare Pokémon cards or whatever off screen to roll full skill dice against "it just works" type effects.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
BoredMan said:
Yeah without the excellency because I don't think we need it and we have like 2 essence left.

[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
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If the outside cares at all they're just going to do this:
DragonParadox said:
MiM with 2 die stunt and 1 die wound penalty vs Elder using the Path of the Sepulchre (DC 9 for it since it is acting blind)
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Which is like laying landmines that stop fighter jets, but it still works.
 
Should we even kill the dragón? we dont have mp so wouldnt It be better to kill the mobs and restore some, while our troops kill it
 
BoredMan said:
But why? If we have no other choice that's one thing but the Outsiders are planning on breaking the masquerade and the fact that this plan was even able to get so far in the first place is odd as hell. The Knights of the Cross aren't here when this is their thing or anyone else who doesn't want to see the Outsiders win for that matter. Sandra is our best lead as to what the hell is going on right now if we can take her in alive we should.
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If you bounce a check the bank doesn't refund the fee because you have a good excuse.

We have a good excuse and a decent contract, but being reasonable has nothing to do with this topic and it's a mistake to think it does.


uju32 said:
Thats essentially what the plain language of the charm appears to say.
And its certainly appropriate for a 5-dot charm's Signature. Compared to the planetful of soldiers.
But fair enough.
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We already have all this:

splintered gale inCarnation (•••••)
The Infernal flays herself apart, creating duplicates
of herself.
System: The Infernal spends 5 Essence and
screams, issuing forth a crimson gale that resolves into a perfect copy of herself. This clone comes into the world naked, perfectly loyal to its creator, precisely aware of what it is, and in possession of the same per- sonality and memories as the Infernal. It has the same Traits as the Infernal, but is completely mortal, with no magic of any sort. Alternately, if the Infernal pos- sesses a working uterus, she can use this Charm to im- pregnate herself. This parthenogenetic child will grow up to be a perfect physical duplicate of the Infernal, but is otherwise a normal human being.
The Infernal can have up to her Essence rating in clones alive and active at once. By spending 1 Essence, she can cause a clone within her presence to unravel back into crimson wind which she absorbs, granting her all of the memories the clone accumulated during its existence. If the Infernal wishes, she may re-create specific absorbed clones in the future when using Splintered Gale Incarnation.
If the Infernal should ever die while any of her clones are abroad in the world, her body dissolves into a screaming wind that streams across the world and pours itself into the nearest clone. This destroys the clone's memories and identity as the Infernal takes over its body. Reincarnating in this fashion reduces the Infernal's Essence rating by 1. If this would reduce her to Essence 0, then reincarnation is impossible.
Signature Effect: When the Infernal dons her Shintai form, (Essence rating) clones emerge along- side her when her chrysalis shatters. They don't count
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against the normal clone limit of Splintered Gale In- carnation, and will vanish into crimson wind when the Shintai form ends; they cannot be reabsorbed. To be clear, these are clones of the Infernal's normal form, not her Shintai body.
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RaW is that all clones are mortal versions of the exalt with no charm effects or equipment. Technically you have a better argument they spawn naked than that they're actually useful.

We have further rulings from the last time you asked about this on how they have to learn how to do anything supernatural like a mortal would and our skills are only partially transferable because essence isn't chi or whatever else.

They're slightly improved from base because DP gave them access to our passives, but that's it.
uju32 said:
exist?
Yeah, I can see Arch-Spheres about and remain lowkey.

I mean, the Fae freaking exist.
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People know about fey, they talk to them and see them use their powers. I don't buy the idea that archspheres could just sit in someone's back pocket forever and I don't think you really do either.

You've been citing examples to try and convince us they're being actively used this whole discussion after all.

It's just that you've failed to make a case that requires their full abilities and explains why all the other things they do just magically didn't come up until an exalt entered the room.


uju32 said:
*checks*
Molly has only 2/15 Essence left.
You probably dont want to burn one of those on an unnecessary Excellency, especially since Molly is going to need to refresh her Melee Excellency to kill the Dragon and murderblend the remaining Outsiders.
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As I said, excellency can be triggered on a roll. So if MiM works we spend and if it doesn't we shouldn't.

If we can use MiM we should use excellency, because it seems unlikely we'll ever get away with using it unsupported against a named antagonist again.

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ImBuda said:
Should we even kill the dragón? we dont have mp so wouldnt It be better to kill the mobs and restore some, while our troops kill it
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He can still cast and drop 18+ Agg on our guys, so yeah.
 
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[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
[X] Finish the Dragon, he's on his last legs
-[X] Rush the dragon, use MiM whenever possible.
-[X] [Stunt]: Bursting upwards in a stream of furious iron wind Usum's nuclear flame seemed to grow deeper, taking a piercing malice that could be felt like the warmth of some twisted sunbeam.
—[X] Striking home to something like the sound of a sandblaster against bare stone, the eye behind Molly's heart opened wide - digging its countless iron teeth into something soft and rich.
 
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