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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Derpmind said:
  1. Put them on Liquid Tiberium Power Cells. Mainly, this is because we're over 100 PS right now, and this project would help spend that extra PS. It also gives nearly as much +Energy as a Fusion plant and a bit of additional income. However, I know in the past a lot of people, myself included, would rather wait on continuing this project or not do it at all.
  2. Put a third die on Forgotten Experimentation, and put a die on a Tiberium Inhibitor. This probably gets us the bioscience done a turn sooner, and gets us another Inhibitor for more abatement. I'm not sure where to put the Inhibitor, though.
  3. Put the dice on Red Zone Containment Lines. This gets us +3 points of progress on our RZ abatement goal, and also gets us more income and a point of Energy. It also probably won't stretch ZOCOM, with only one die on the Glaciers and two dice here.
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I'm good with any of the options. Though... would doing Improved H-G Refits with those dice give us a chance at getting at least some STUs off this turn from refineries?
 
Seeing as I'm the next runner up with Bring Me The Tanks, I will state that I will not be removing dice from Xenotech Refineries, so if that lack dissatisfies you, you do have another option.
 
[X] Plan Twenty Minutes to the Future
[X] Plan Advancing Technology

I'd be ok with any of the changes mentioned but my prefered option would be an extra die on forgotten experimentation.
 
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[X]Bring Me The Tanks

I am not too woried about xenotech refinining being over burdened. The worst that happens is we dont have enough people qualified to run them. And they get mothballed. That being said.
Tanks
 
Derpmind said:
I really don't want to keep making changes to my plan, especially with a lot of people voting for it now. However, I consider the current Plan nonviable. Overworking the few engineers capable of making xenotech refineries is really bad idea, and is an entirely avoidable mistake. In about 10 hours, I will be taking two dice off of Xenotech Refineries. (If you object to that, you can change your vote now.)
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This concern seems to be coming out of left field for me. While the narrative did make a big deal about overworked engineers, it just as much made clear that we were on top of stopping them from burning out or working dangerously, even against the engineers' own objections.

Moreover, core to having a second refinery is... well, training more engineers to do the work. Squid has said on discord that the lack of additional phases in the update was an oversight - there is a phase 3 that is already available if phase 2 completes, we are not so labor strapped that we're on the brink of being incapable of continuing expansion.

So if you're going to claim that putting 4 dice on xeno refineries is unsafe, you should provide the underlying evidence that lead you to such a strong conclusion.

Then on top of that, you're planning to remove one of the core selling points of your plan over it after it took the lead, rather than making a new one. I strongly object to editing this change into the existing plan.
 
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Derpmind said:
Alright, I'm no longer half-awake, so, let me clear this up a bit.

I really don't want to keep making changes to my plan, especially with a lot of people voting for it now. However, I consider the current Plan nonviable. Overworking the few engineers capable of making xenotech refineries is really bad idea, and is an entirely avoidable mistake. In about 10 hours, I will be taking two dice off of Xenotech Refineries. (If you object to that, you can change your vote now.)

The question I need to figure out, is where to put those two Tiberium dice? I'm currently trying to decide between three options:
  1. Put them on Liquid Tiberium Power Cells. Mainly, this is because we're over 100 PS right now, and this project would help spend that extra PS. It also gives nearly as much +Energy as a Fusion plant and a bit of additional income. However, I know in the past a lot of people, myself included, would rather wait on continuing this project or not do it at all.
  2. Put a third die on Forgotten Experimentation, and put a die on a Tiberium Inhibitor. This probably gets us the bioscience done a turn sooner, and gets us another Inhibitor for more abatement. I'm not sure where to put the Inhibitor, though.
  3. Put the dice on Red Zone Containment Lines. This gets us +3 points of progress on our RZ abatement goal, and also gets us more income and a point of Energy. It also probably won't stretch ZOCOM, with only one die on the Glaciers and two dice here.
Right now, entirely due to our excessive PS, I'm in favor of option #1. But, those are just the ideas I came up with. If people want me to do something else, or just really don't want liquid tib power, I'll do whatever else instead. That all said, I can't leave the plan in limbo forever, so I'm going to put down an arbitrary deadline here: At 9:00 PM EST, or 10 hours (and 7 minutes) from now, I'll be updating my plan for what should be the final time. I know that might not be enough time for everyone to say their piece, but again, I can't leave the plan in limbo. After that (arbitrary) deadline, I'm willing to approval vote plan variants and such. But I feel that I need to edit the current one because I just don't think it's right to leave in a problem/mistake that I believe makes the plan itself nonviable.
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While I am a big fan of Liquid Tiberium in general, especially now that there's new tech to try out, you'll probably get much more pushback switching to it than anything else. It isn't worth the controversy.

If you want it, it'd probably be better to make a new plan. There's enough time left for people to change their minds, and honestly the worst thing that I expect to happen if we complete the plants early is that there's no one to staff them yet. The engineers who designed and built the last set of plants probably aren't running them (different skill sets and qualifications), and should be available for other projects.
 
Crossed out my previous post. I'm making this too complicated for myself, so. I'm not going to make any more changes to my plan. It's set, it's done, it's finished. If anyone wants to make variants of my plan that mess around with the Tiberium dice, I'll approval vote those But that's it.
 
Dmol8 said:
We have been told that this is a specialist field in an already specialist field and that we have to wait a few turns for people to be retrained to be able to work on this project.
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Then I present a second revision to somewhat ease off on our TIB-STU engineers, while still working towards increasing STU production.

[X] Plan Stay Tighter on non-STU Targets
-[X] Infrastructure (5 die, +27, 55R)
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 221/245 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] TransAmerican Railroad 68/120 1 die 10R 99%
--[X] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 2+3) 33/300 3 dice 30R 31%
-[X] Heavy Industry (5 die (+34) + 1 Erehwon + 1 Free Dice, 120R)
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 1265/1805 4 dice + 1E dice + 1 free dice, 90R
--[X] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) 0/90 1 die 30R 69%
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice (+29) + 1 Free Dice, 75 R
--[X] Adaptive Cloth Factories 0/300 3 dice 45R
--[X] Civilian Drone Systems (New) 0/150 2 dice 80% 30 R
-[X]Agriculture 6 dice +29 50R
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 2) 447/790 4 dice 20R 43%
--[X] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice 30R 57%
-[X] Tiberium 7 dice + 2 Free Dice +39 270R
--[X] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4+5) 168/380 3 dice 90R 98%
--[X] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 3%
--[X] Xenotech Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) 16/300 2 dice 80R
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes Phase 2 (Updated) 78/180 2 Free dice 40R
-[X]Orbital 7 dice +34 170R
--[X] Assembler Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%
--[X] High Density Housing 255/295 1 Dice 20R
--[X] Lunar Homesteading (Phase 2) 5/250 3 dice 90R 76%
--[X] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 2) 32/255 1 dice 20R
-[X] Services 4 dice +35 120R
--[X] Fifth Generation Electronic Video Assistants 152/200 1 die 40R 100%
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/270 2 dice 50R 53%
--[X] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 1 dice 30R
-[X] Military 6 dice (+31) + 2 Free dice + 2 Admin Assistance Dice 205 R
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) 16/285 2 dice + 1 Admin Assistance 60R
--[X] Governor-A Deployment (Refits) 96/350 3 dice 60R 58%
--[X] Next-Generation Armored Vehicles 0/160 1 dice + 1 Admin Assistance 60 R
--[X] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/160 1 Free dice 15R
--[X] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) 0/60 1 Free die
-Bureaucracy (4 die)
--[X] Administrative Assistance 4 die (GFZA + Next Gen AV)

Total Cost = 1015R
 
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ramdomperson said:
Then I present a second revision to somewhat ease off on our TIB-STU engineers, while still working towards increasing STU production.

[X] Plan Stay Tighter on non-STU Targets
-[] Infrastructure (5 die, +27, 55R)
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 221/245 1 die 15R 100%
--[] TransAmerican Railroad 68/120 1 die 10R 99%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 2+3) 33/300 3 dice 30R 31%
-[] Heavy Industry (5 die (+34) + 1 Erehwon + 1 Free Dice, 120R)
--[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 1265/1805 4 dice + 1E dice + 1 free dice, 90R
--[] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) 0/90 1 die 30R 69%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice (+29) + 1 Free Dice, 75 R
--[] Adaptive Cloth Factories 0/300 3 dice 45R
--[] Civilian Drone Systems (New) 0/150 2 dice 80% 30 R
-[]Agriculture 6 dice +29 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 2) 447/790 4 dice 20R 43%
--[] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice 30R 57%
-[] Tiberium 7 dice + 2 Free Dice +39 270R
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4+5) 168/380 3 dice 90R 98%
--[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 3%
--[] Xenotech Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) 16/300 2 dice 80R
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes Phase 2 (Updated) 78/180 2 Free dice 40R
-[]Orbital 7 dice +34 170R
--[] Assembler Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%
--[] Lunar Homesteading (Phase 2) 5/250 3 dice 90R 76%
--[] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 2) 32/255 2 dice 40R 18%
-[] Services 4 dice +35 120R
--[] Fifth Generation Electronic Video Assistants 152/200 1 die 40R 100%
--[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/270 2 dice 50R 53%
--[] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 1 dice 30R
-[]Military 6 dice (+31) + 2 Free dice + 2 Admin Assistance Dice 205 R
--[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) 16/285 2 dice + 1 Admin Assistance 60R
--[] Governor-A Deployment (Refits) 96/350 3 dice 60R 58%
--[] Next-Generation Armored Vehicles 0/160 1 dice + 1 Admin Assistance 60 R
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/160 1 Free dice 15R
--[] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) 0/60 1 Free die
-Bureaucracy (4 die)
--[] Administrative Assistance 4 die (GFZA + Next Gen AV)

Total Cost = 1015R
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For this to work, you need to have an "X" in the brackets for each line. Otherwise, it won't be tallied correctly.
 
[X] Plan Bring Me The Tanks
[X] Plan Twenty Minutes to the Future
 
[X] Plan Advancing Technology
-[X] Infrastructure (5/5 + 1 AA dice, +27) 85 Resources
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 221/245 1 AA die 15R 99%
--[X] Trans-American Railroad: 68/120 1 die 10R 99%
--[X] Construction Drone Centralization (New) 0/120 2 dice 30R 96%
--[X] Drone Logistical Integration (New) 0/240 2 dice 30R (2/3 dice needed.)
-[X] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice +34) 75 Resources
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 1265/1805 5 dice 75R 1%
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry (4/4 dice, +29) 75 Resources
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 5) 425/1140 1 die 30R (1/9 dice needed.)
--[X] Factory Automation Programs (New) 0/280 1 die 15R (1/3.5 dice needed.)
--[X] Civilian Drone Systems (New) 0/150 2 dice 30R 80%
-[X] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29) 70 Resources
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 2) 447/790 2 dice 10R (2/4 dice needed.)
--[X] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 2) 136/160 1 die 20R 100%
--[X] Tarberry Plantations (Phase 4) 21/65 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice 30R 57%
-[X] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39) 210 Resources
--[X] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 168/190 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 3) 4/125 2 dice 40R 100%
--[X] Xenotech Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) 16/300 2 dice 80R 0%
--[X] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 3%
-[X] Orbital (9/7 + 1 Erewhon dice, +34) 250 Resources
--[X] High Density Housing 255/295 1 Erewhon die 20R 90%
--[X] Assembler Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%
--[X] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 2) 32/255 2 dice 40R 18%
--[X] Lunar Homesteading (Phase 2) 5/250 5 dice 150R 100% (Phase 3 26%)
-[X] Services (8/4 dice, +35) 240 Resources
--[X] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 4 dice 120R 97%
--[X] Transhuman Technology Deployment (New) 0/300 4 dice 120R 93%
-[X] Military (6/6 + 1 AA dice, +31) 130 Resources
--[X] Military Particle Beam Development (Tech) 0/100 1 die 20R 55%
--[X] NovaHawk Development 0/40 1 AA die 15R (89%)
--[X] Next-Generation Armored Vehicles 0/160 1 die 30R (1/2 dice required.)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) 16/285 2 dice 40R
--[X] Advanced Articulation Systems (Tech) 0/60 1 die 15R 99%
--[X] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) 0/60 1 die 10R 99%
-[X] Bureaucracy (4/4 dice, +29)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (Rail Network Construction Campaigns)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (NovaHawk Development)

Total Cost: 1135/1215R

Nothing super specials about this plan, getting labor numbers up, pushing out Autodocs and TTD in Services, getting Advanced Articulation developed along side FTMs, and spending a bit extra in Orbital to have a stab at the Assembler Bay and the second Species Restoration Bay. Did cut into funding Boston, and 1% chance of finishing basically means it won't, but with all these Labor projects I don't feel finishing it this turn is super important

Edit: I don't know how this slipped my mind, but Tiberium spending is split between Finishing the Glacier Mine, getting a the new Liquid Tiberium Power Cell deployed, getting a start on the next phase of Xenotech Refineries, and doing the Forgotten Experimentation. That's really important to note, this plan is not aiming to push out the new refineries
 
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Nottheunmaker said:
It probably wouldn't kill us to do the Xeno Refineries, but we do need to take the narrative into consideration with projects like this, and the narrative is clear that there's issues getting the specialists necessary for these refineries together. It's worth taking it slow for a turn.
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Honestly, I think the problem may be less "we can't find the specialists" and more "there's so much going on and everyone involved is so deeply invested that overwork becomes routine."

GDI's work culture probably includes some pretty unhealthy ideas surrounding crunch time, emergencies, and national security priority projects. Given all the shit they've been through, it's inevitable.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that the new refineries will cause problems if we push the rollout fast. But honestly, I think I can live with it, the way I accept some chance of rolling a Natural 1.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Honestly, I think the problem may be less "we can't find the specialists" and more "there's so much going on and everyone involved is so deeply invested that overwork becomes routine."

GDI's work culture probably includes some pretty unhealthy ideas surrounding crunch time, emergencies, and national security priority projects. Given all the shit they've been through, it's inevitable.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that the new refineries will cause problems if we push the rollout fast. But honestly, I think I can live with it, the way I accept some chance of rolling a Natural 1.
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My understanding is that it's less a problem finding operators for the refineries, and more a problem that the people who understand how to build them is severely limited. That said, yeah, I think that while there is a concern, it is not at a level of "we will cripple our capacity to do Tiberium Things". I would be quite concerned about the possibility of a critfail here, were we still rolling d100s, but am less so now, because the probability is so much lower.
 
Simon_Jester said:
GDI's work culture probably includes some pretty unhealthy ideas surrounding crunch time, emergencies, and national security priority projects. Given all the shit they've been through, it's inevitable.
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It absolutely has a lot of unhealthy ideas about what a priority looks like. GDI is a culture which, as a rule, treats shock labor as a price of doing business, especially for government work. Throwing everything at the problem and making it happen as quickly as possible, often in communities where everyone is working on the program, is just something that happens, and is usually not particularly commented on.
 
Ithillid said:
It absolutely has a lot of unhealthy ideas about what a priority looks like. GDI is a culture which, as a rule, treats shock labor as a price of doing business, especially for government work. Throwing everything at the problem and making it happen as quickly as possible, often in communities where everyone is working on the program, is just something that happens, and is usually not particularly commented on.
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Who would thought when tiberium was eating everything and could be barely be stopped that the question of overtime or exhaustion health issues is put to the side is still a defining feature of there work culture.
 
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