Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Sorry about that, I fell behind for a while cause of work, and kind of skimmed to catch up, so I wasn't aware of any agreement to table the discussion. I just noticed that right now would be a good time to have backup is all.
Fair, but we've done this song and dance a lot over the quest and it usually ends with a few pages of the same arguments derailing us from whatever we're doing at the time and then another ceasefire. I'm usually one of the primary parties participating in that cycle, so I'm pretty sure that I can see one coming when it's right in front of me.

Even if we hadn't relatively recently set this issue aside again, nothing about this situation will change based on if we have another round. So let's not.

Edit: error
 
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Shaping defense.
Even setting that aside it's not one or the other here. He can run his ritual while we go down to the tunnels if he's got the juice for it. Even if it doesn't help us much in the end it still needs to happen.

But we only have so much time and at some point we need to take what we have and act. Showing up when we think we ritual is going to start is reckless; we have no margin and everything has to go perfectly to avoid disaster.
Molly has a shaping defense. Noone else does.


It is one or the other.
Alexander Harrowmont is a very weak mage. So weak that when he failed the White Council tests, the Council didnt even bother with the pro forma warnings about what he shouldnt do.

There's very little chance that he can actually independently run this ritual successfully alone.
There's frankly questions about Harry being able to do it given preptime and and his own equipment. Its certainly outside anything we know he's ever done in canon.

I would much prefer to have Molly make sure the rainstorm drops first to debuff Sandra before we go underground.
If we choose to vote to have Harrowmont take that risk alone with our eyes open?
Bad idea, but salvageable.

As long as we take our entire war party with us, instead of leaving important chunks of it to wrestle with this ritual with no backup while denying us of key abilities at the sharp end.

But this entire suggestion that we YOLO into a defended tunnel complex with a half-empty tank of gas and with half our specialists and volunteers absent is a bad one.
And thats my two cents.

What are you talking about? Her timeline is nightfall, which is when we'd be showing up. If she's in the middle of her ritual when we show up that's a serious strategic error.
No, Sandra's timeline is midnight.
We established this back when we used the Crown on the vision we had.

Its currently around 2pm PST
We have 10 hours in hand. Almost 3 hours before nightfall.
We arent exactly down to the wire.
To be frank; I don't give a damn about the reds. If they all die we don't even have to clean up afterwards. We need to be moving and forcing Sandra to react instead of working through her checklist.

We've got plenty of guys, and would have more if this sudden desire for minions had shown up any of the times we talked about getting them earlier in the trip. Timing is more important than having class D personnel on hand.
Well you should.

The reason why a strong Red Court contingent matters is because it might get other Old Guard loyalists inside the wire to turn on the New Blood, and because they actually know the ground and the mundane defenses that a flood might not nail. It also matters in the event that the Red Court dhampirs out there get a recall message and show up behind us and mire us in delays.
 
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Dunno, that would be a nice trumpcard to deploy in a devastating strike. Its not like she can't have divination or an outsider do it.
This is Harrowmont's writeup:
Harrowmont has always wanted to be a real, old world wizard. He cultivated a London accent even when his immigrant parents had long lost theirs, secretly thanked the universe for the near-sightedness that allowed him to justify horn-rimmed glasses, obsessively bought stoles and robes, and constantly studied the kinds of books that get you insulted or kicked around by bullies.

He cast his first common ritual in high school, having had the luck to stumble upon a room- tidying spell with actual power from a book he'd acquired from deep in the back of the stacks of a occult used bookstore. The tiny, tiny commission of will left him exhausted enough to skip school the next day and worry his mother. It also changed his life forever.

As a young adult, mired in the mystical community of New England, he expanded his studies and power enough to get him noticed by a member of the White Council. His day had come. He would finally achieve his dream.

He scored lower on the wizarding exam than any candidate had in the past century. The proctors practically laughed him out of the examination chambers, without even the customary warning that they'd watch him for potential signs of Lawbreaking.

Here's why: his particular brand of magic is only useful around books. He's a bibliomancer, unable to do any magic that isn't precisely recorded or easily derived from written material. Without an arcane library, he can do no more magic than I can.


Decades of study haven't made him any more powerful. The only avenues of study that seemed to help also brought a Warden to his door within the day, waving around a silver sword. He began traveling, seeking a place to avoid their scrutiny.

He found UNLV and a cozy home as one of their Chief Archivists. He's extremely popular on campus and often helps students with all manner of research—he seems to have memorized their library system and he brings the flexible touch that a computer search can't. When he's not on campus, one usually finds him poring over an old tome while sipping a sample from Synecdoche's (page 50) fine collection of single malts.

He continues to study constantly, waiting for a second chance.
TLDR
No it isnt.
 
[X]Plan Cloudburst
-[X] Screw this, there has to be a way to give Harrowmont the insight he needs to put out the fires until nightfall when you can deal with the arsonist herself.
-[X]Call the party and have them meet you, bringing some supplies with them
-[X]Crown question: Focus this scene: Optimizing the ritual for Las Vegas's current situation: 1m
-[X]Tool-Transcending Constructs + Occult Excellency for the actual ritual: 2m
 
Fair, but we've done this song and dance a lot over the quest and it usually ends with a few pages of the same arguments derailing us from whatever we're doing at the time and then another ceasefire. I'm usually one of the primary parties participating in that cycle, so I'm pretty sure that I can see one coming when it's right in front of me.

Even if we hadn't relatively recently set this issue aside again, nothing about this situation will change based on if we have another round. So let's not.

Edit: error
I get the desire to not clog the thread with circular arguments, though at the same time agreeing not to talk about it is implicitly the same as agreeing not to do it without an actual vote on it. So...

Let's just vote on it.

No more arguments, everyone's already said enough and our positions probably won't change. Just vote, and accept the results of the vote.
 
Which is not to say he's weak.
He's extremly weak wizhout books, but in a ritual ge can derive from his books, he's a decent or even strong Sorcerer, if a slow one.
Uh, it does though.
And he's slow. He can do ritual magic, but there's a reason why Usum told us, and I quote:
"It would be a fine distraction and he might even survive the attempt," Usum opines. There's the demon on your shoulder you're used to.
"Why not do it now? Break her hold and..."
"Lady draped in glory, endless is thy might, but short has been our preparation and long has been that of our foes, to challenge her power against power and skill against skill with this lesser magician for our master of ceremonies is to invite disappointment."
Thats why I've been saying that Molly needs to put her shoulder behind the cart and push if she actually expects this to work.

Either throw the entire party(and yes, Im counting Adkins here) at this issue to make the ritual work, or leave and let Harrowmont try what he can.
Dont split the party.
 
Uh, it does though.
And he's slow. He can do ritual magic, but there's a reason why Usum told us, and I quote:

Thats why I've been saying that Molly needs to put her shoulder behind the cart and push if she actually expects this to work.

Either throw the entire party(and yes, Im counting Adkins here) at this issue to make the ritual work, or leave and let Harrowmont try what he can.
Dont split the party.
That's why I have Dresden and Lash on the job.
 
Dude seems like a prime bait. Wants to be a wizard, almost became a warlock. I can easily see him being offered a deal for more power. It literally says he is waiting for a second chance at power.
Yes?
Molly literally mentioned all these things back when she first called him, because it was obvious to her:
Hope he's right, you think as you dial Harrowmont's number. The call goes long, five rings before groggy man on the other end picks up. "Hello, who's there?" Even in his present state there's a very cut-glass English accent that reminds you of nothing so much as Matthew Macfadyen playing Mr. Darcy.

So you launch into a fundamentally true if slightly more flattering account of what Arlene had said about him when she gave you his number, emphasizing that this is an investigation grave as it is urgent aimed at those who are a threat to all within the city. It's when you toss in the word Lawbreaker that you really get his attention though.

"So the Council has requires my skills," the words 'at last' aren't spoken, but they might as well be shouted given the relish with which he speaks. "Far be it from me to impede the protectors of mankind, but given how protective the Wardens are of 'official business' I think it would be prudent to offer some recognition wouldn't you say so Ms Carpenter?"

Chip on his shoulder the size of Mount Everest, annoyed at the Council. Wanted to be a wizard, didn't make the cut, tried to study his way out of a lack of talent, ended up broadening instead of deepening his gift. At the back of your mind Usum is chuckling darkly and you do not even have to ask why. In the marketplace of souls Alexander Harrowmont's would be at a Black Friday discount for anyone paying in the proper coin, the question is if any buyer's gotten to him yet.

"I'm sure we can work something out," you agree, which is to say if needs be Harry can give him an 'official' White Council gold star or something. "What I would like to ask you is if you know anything about the present disposition of the Red Court or their attack earlier this year on the illusionist known as Orpheus. I also have a picture for you to look over to tell me if you recognize the woman in it as well as a general account of things in Vegas since this summer. Shifts in power, politically and magically, people acting unusually, going missing."

"One of the grad students at UNLV where I work, Patricia Ruiz-Borges died of an overdose. At least that is how the LVPD ruled it, but I am quite certain it was murder. She was looking into corruption and human trafficking though McCarran International Airport. I tried to warn her that she would find far more than merely human wickedness at play, but she was convinced she would crack the whole network wide open, spread it all over the press, too far and too fast for a cover up."

"Did she sound like someone put her up to it?" you ask, thinking of how easy someone like that would be to turn into a catspaw.

"Hard to tell really, there was no touch of the occult about her, no charms and hexes, but a word in the right ear can often do more harm than any enchantment. One thing I can say for certain is that she went down into the tunnels where Orpheus used to dwell, looking for eyewitness testimony, people who had managed to get away from the..." disdain enters his voice. "Blood trade. To be honest I counted her death the work of the Red Court, it fits their particular brand of... well I hesitate to call it humor, but they might find such character assassination amusing."

You nod to yourself, that does sound like something they would do with no outside prodding. "Alright, sending the picture over now..."

The answer is as instant as it is electrifying: "Oh, I know her, that's Sandra Marling, she's a freshman enrolled this year. How is she mixed up in all this?"

"You know the Laws yes?" You do not give him time to answer. "There are those who break them in ignorance, those who break them in folly and arrogance and there are those who walk into the Pit with their eyes open, she had broken the Seventh Law, she is a willing servant of Those Beyond the Outer Gates."

"Higher Demons? No there are too many books on..." he cuts himself off, not wanting to spread his reading habits to someone associated with the Council.

"The most common term for them is Outsider, it is not very useful as far as morphological description goes, but it also does not risk drawing the wrong kind of attention. Can you tell me what Sandra has been doing, what social circles she's been moving in? Names, addresses?"

"Ms Carpenter I am an archivist, certain serialized depictions of the job aside I do not socialize with the students. Marling struck me as a reasonably well liked young lady, I have not seen her in the stacks that often, but she generally came as part of a group. On that note I know of a way to enhance my own memory to recall their names, but it will take a few hours..." he cuts himself off. "I could certainly give you her list of courses and of course all of her professors, you could probably work your way out from there, though of course tomorrow is Sunday. It would probably be best to work this out on Monday..."

"I am afraid we do not have the time to wait on that." The city of Las Vegas does not have the time. "If she spent time at the university it was for some nefarious purpose."

"I wonder..." Harrowmont hmms very dramatically. "There have been an unusual number of young people having breakdowns before the midterms. I mean you always get one or two, fainting spells especially, students these days do not know how to take care of their bodies. We have had one young lady get the shakes, another fellow started hearing voices, three cases of narcolepsy. There has been a lot of blaming of certain illicit substances among the staff, I was not paying that much attention. A oneiric vector perhaps? I do have some small skill in that regard."

Dreams again... you think, then muse aloud. "Did you know Orpheus? Could he have been involved? What was he involved in?"

"We've met a time or two," he temporizes, badly. "He was a gentle soul, in his own way quitecontent to live among his dreams, help others share in their dreams around. Some would liken him to just another dealer in a city filled with them, but I do not think he acted out of greed, more a belief that reality is a cruel place and it is better to dwell in the land of dreams as long as one is able. I have no idea what he could have doen to anger the Red Court unless it was that they came to see him as competition or they simply desired his talents. Orpheus would have rather died than join them, like any sensibile person who saw beneath the mask of stolen humanity. If in the process of dealing with Marling you should see fit to rid the city of that blight many would be greatful for the deed."

As he speaks your mind is already wondering elsewhere, to Harry's talents. After all your Crown can tell you where Sandra is at any given moment but his could provide an continous path. "If Sandra has been around campus can you think of any place where she might have mispalced hair or anything else that could serve as a thaumaturgic focus. She would naturally be weary of such things, but that does not mean she's always perfect."

He thinks a moment "Chemistry labs perhaps? I recall she's taking an organic chemistry course at least. Students do often have to wear head protection, it would not take much to lose a few stray hairs." A sigh comes from the other end of the call, not all that sincere you would judge, more the attitude Harrowmont thinks is expected of him. "Do you want me to get you onto the campus. I only have the keys to the library and the archives, but I imagine you will not have much trouble breaking in the buildings, there is naught but mundane locks in the way."
And in her opinion he's untouched.

We talked to the man with all our social charms running. We told him Sandra was an Outsider cultist.
We literally rolled 16 successes on reading him like a book; you only need 5 successes for a Legendary result.
He has no secrets from us.


That's why I have Dresden and Lash on the job.
Weather manipulation, while Forces/Correspondence is not really in his paradigm.
Let alone in a strange city where there's no Bob to play lab assistant, and it might be invoking an old Greek god. And Lash does not currently have Lore of Storms either, so I dont know what she can contribute here other than advice.

Better than Harrowmont alone.
Not good enough for a guaranteed chance of success against a prepared ritual by an Outside-backed mage or mages.

And critically, we need them both underground.
Both the party member who can deal with poisons and detect magical activity at a distance, and the magical combat engineer who might be able to defuse or shore up anything Sandra has done so far.

We cant, and shouldnt, leave them up top.
 
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@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Random question: How much could a pact with Lash potentially do for Alexander Harrowmont?

He's already a mage of experience, just an incredibly weak one thats limited to ritualcasting.
Would a pact mod his soul enough to power him up to White Council tier? Or would it be limited to removing the Flaw that limits him to ritualcasting?
 
Better than Harrowmont alone.
Not good enough for a guaranteed chance of success against a prepared ritual by an Outside-backed mage or mages.
Molly has nothing to add but her Occult skill though.

Someone like Harrowmont couldn't xhannel her power in any useful way, he has to work with written instructions.

Having Harry and Lash add their freeform skills and deep lore respectivly is a decent bet.

And most crucially, Sandra or any witches aiding her can't support their own ritual if they are busy with the invasion of their tunnels, while tjey could put their full power into it if we do things one by one.

And critically, we need them both underground.
Both the party member who can deal with poisons and detect magical activity at a distance, and the magical combat engineer who might be able to defuse or shore up anything Sandra has done so far.
Lash and Harry would be our most vulnerable party members against poison or explosions.

Molly and Lydia are tough and can survive most traps, even get a big boost on soaking poison naturally.
Lash and Harry have near-mortal soak and mortal health, they can die comparativly easily.
Better have them do something useful from a distancf.
 
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Random question: How much could a pact with Lash potentially do for Alexander Harrowmont?

He's already a mage of experience, just an incredibly weak one thats limited to ritualcasting.
Would a pact mod his soul enough to power him up to White Council tier? Or would it be limited to removing the Flaw that limits him to ritualcasting?

She could get rid of the flaw, though he would then have to learn how to cast normally, power isn't skill. For right now you guys are going to have to do library casting
 
Molly has nothing to add but her Occult skill though.

Someone like Harrowmont couldn't xhannel her power in any useful way, he has to work with written instructions.

Having Harry and Lash add their freeform skills and deep lore respectivly is a decent bet.

And most crucially, Sandra or any witches aiding her can't support their own ritual if they are busy with the invasion of their tunnels, while tjey could put their full power into it if we do things one by one.
Thats not true

Molly's an Infernal Exalt and Path Sorcerer who has an Occult Excellency and is initiated into Ancient Sorcery.
She can actively handle that part; using TTC, she might even potentially automate it.
Similarly, Lydia is a Terrestrial Exalt with an Intelligence Excellency.

Lash doesnt really have any Faith energy to spare, .
Dresden can at least roll (Arete 5 + Forces/Prime 3) but as far as I know, Dresdenverse wizards and Mages still have to deal with 1s subtracting successes.

===
In Dead Beat, Cowl nuked Chicago with a citywide hex like this one in preparation for the Darkhallow.
He didnt need to stay actively supporting it; he was still able to gallivant around clobbering Dresden over the head with a club and running the Darkhallow more or less solo.

Dresden was clear about thinking Cowl was more powerful than him to hex Chicago.
For Sandra to do this here, she is either
  • White Council-tier wizard
  • Has a massive coven of magic workers behind her
  • Has a very brawny patron behind her providing Sponsored Magic
  • All of the above.
Lash and Harry would be our most vulnerable party members against poison or explosions.

Molly and Lydia are tough and can survive most traps, even get a big boost on soaking poison naturally.
Lash and Harry have near-mortal soak and mortal health, they can die comparativly easily.
Better have them do something useful from a distancf.
They are also the best equipped to handle them.
Dresden with shields and techbane for fucking up technology, and Lash can literally purge poisons.
And Dresden is already Immune to VX, because Lash gave it to him before Club Xanadu.

Their soak is no worse than those of the cyborgs we are taking down into the tunnels.
Lash almost certainly has better Soak, actually.
 
She could get rid of the flaw, though he would then have to learn how to cast normally, power isn't skill. For right now you guys are going to have to do library casting
Huh. Thats interesting.
If this works....

===
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Feb 6, 2024 at 9:37 AM, finished with 157 posts and 23 votes.

  • [X]Plan Cloudburst
    -[X] Screw this, there has to be a way to give Harrowmont the insight he needs to put out the fires until nightfall when you can deal with the arsonist herself.
    -[X]Call the party and have them meet you, bringing some supplies with them
    -[X]Crown question: Focus this scene: Optimizing the ritual for Las Vegas's current situation: 1m
    -[X]Tool-Transcending Constructs + Occult Excellency for the actual ritual: 2m
    [X] Plan Don't wait for nightfall and waste another 6 or so fucking hours
    [X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
    -[X] Do so right now, the Reds on our side go in as soon as there's a cloud-cover, Molly and the cyborgs take point for now
    -[X] Leave several of your party members behind
    --[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
    --[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
    --[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly
    [X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
    -[X] Leave several of your party members behind
    --[X] Harry, a proper wizard used to this kind of magic
    --[X] Tiffany for her understanding of old powers
    --[X] Mutt and Adkins, for further guarding and occult insights respectivly
    [X] Let Harrowmont go aheal with his ritual just as you make your way into the tunnels, hopefully stretch Sandra's attention to the breaking point
    -[X] Only with the goblins
    [X] plan Fruits for the Altar
    -[X] Screw this, there has to be a way to give Harrowmont the insight he needs to put out the fires until nightfall when you can deal with the arsonist herself.
    --[X]Call the party and have them meet you, bringing some supplies with them
    --[X] Crown questions:
    ---[X] Focus this scene: Optimizing the ritual for Las Vegas's current situation: 1m
    ---[X] Focus Harrowmont: what are his greatest immediately correctable issues as a magic user: 1m
    ---[X] Provide a bounty of fruits and plants as sacrifices to Persephone from your kingdom.
    --[X]Tool-Transcending Constructs + Occult Excellency for the actual ritual: 2m
 
@HellFire666, @fictionfan, @Yog, would you be willing to vote for the plan to not spend six hours before attacking?

We don't need to let Sandra have more time to prepare.
My worry is that the global effect on the city might be more potent in direct vicinity of Sandra. Sandra having a -1 Dc and everyone else having +1 Dc suring combat is a nasty combination. If it's -2 and +2 that's ot something I want to contend with.
 
POSTSCRIPT
Changing the weather appears to be at least a Forces 4 rote, if Google isnt leading me astray:
• • • • Storm Watch — By redirecting wind forces and heat patterns, the mage can bring rapid change to the weather. Verbena and Dreamspeakers in particular perform such rituals with dances, sympathetic magic or paeans. The mage can banish wind, bring up or disperse clouds and cause the surroundings to become hotter or colder.

With two successes, die mage could perhaps stir up a light breeze or cool off a hot day, while with 10 successes, the mage could generate a heat wave or bring in rapidly moving clouds over a small area.
Weather Working
Forces 4
By calling upon the spirits of storm and sea, the sei r worker can unleash and disperse powerful storm winds, summon or banish blizzards, and enrage or calm the ocean waves.

System: The mage sits atop her sei-hjallr and chants the var lokur to summon the powers of the Vanir. With the blessings of the ancient gods of earth, sea and sky, she is able to alter the weather in a manner of her choosing. This rote works as the Storm Watch effect on page 167 of Mage.

There's probably Entropy and Prime in that as well to erode the hex, but we're likely to need 20+ successes to pull this off across the entirety of Las Vegas.
Especially if we have to deal with magical opposition.

Path Sorcery can also do it, but looking at Sorcery Revised p85-86, its likely even more expensive, at least on the timescale that we need this.

A rainstorm to hit Las Vegas promptly in the next thirty minutes to an hour would require around 4-5 dots of Intensity, 6 dots of Speed, 4-5 dots of Duration and 4-5 dots of Scale.
It would also cost roughly 6-7 Willpower.

This is beyond Harrowmont, at least on a pure mechanics level.
Its likely beyond Harry AND Harowmont AND Lash, at least not if they are facing active opposition.
My worry is that the global effect on the city might be more potent in direct vicinity of Sandra. Sandra having a -1 Dc and everyone else having +1 Dc suring combat is a nasty combination. If it's -2 and +2 that's ot something I want to contend with.
^^^
Its been a while, but a lot of people have forgotten the Will of Kakuri trying to do this to us.
I really dont want to potentially fight Outsiders under a global debuff to our stats.
 
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My worry is that the global effect on the city might be more potent in direct vicinity of Sandra. Sandra having a -1 Dc and everyone else having +1 Dc suring combat is a nasty combination. If it's -2 and +2 that's ot something I want to contend with.

Except, I don't see why giving her time to prepare something worse than that wouldn't be, well, worse?

She knows we're in town, she knows her chaos effect was tripped, she proved she can make rituals, giving her six more hours to prepare any specific thing she can think of to stop us specifically does not sound like a winning proposition to me.
 
Its been a while, but a lot of people have forgotten the Will of Kakuri trying to do this to us.
I really dont want to potentially fight Outsiders under a global debuff to our stats.
Oh, absolutely yes. That being said, it may be possible that she can throw something else together. I don't know how nasty of something she could throw together on a short notice, though.
 
Oh, absolutely yes. That being said, it may be possible that she can throw something else together. I don't know how nasty of something she could throw together on a short notice, though.
Which is why we want the wizard along
The person whose skillset leans towards fucking with things like that in the field.

That said, she cant focus on us too much. She doesnt have infinite skill or resources, and her goal is to crack open the Hellgate.
The longer she takes, the higher the chance of interference.

Not to mention the dangers of the Hellgate iself, which is something that demands your attention.
A Hellgate with a guardian demon sitting on it is a dangerous thing; if you fumble, or botch, the bestcase is that you die, and die quickly. If you dont, if the demon gets its hands on you, you'll wish you did.

Because you tried to fuck with it. And demons are notoriously unforgiving.
 
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