Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I expect (personal opinion)that this is going to come to a nighttime engagement with thralls and summons trying to buy Sandra time to crack open the gate.
And under those circumstances? With a waning moon, subzero temperatures and the likelihood of bad weather?
Bringing 20-40 heavy infantry with man-portable DEWs and combat casters will both not be noticed AND will act as a decisive trump that Sandra wont see coming.
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Also: the motes used to get them are an investment, not lost in the wind.
They very well can allow us to end up gaining motes relatively speaking by the simple act of being there, instead of us trying to do everything ourselves.
As I understand it, this is the last chance we have of summoning reinforcements. It takes time to get into our kingdom, summon a military squad, brief them, then go back. Time we won't have once the fighting starts.
Yeah, that is important too, this vote really seems like it is supposed to be our last chance of doing that, we'll be attacking after, and it is self evident we won't be able to get our troops once we're at that point.
I believe you are mistaken.
Its early/mid-afternoon after our talk with Jerome.
Going spelunking in the tunnel system isnt going to take more than an hour..
Word of God is that we have had fireteams on standby ever since we decided to come to Vegas; I quote:
Going in and out of our kingdom takes seconds, and a combat briefing wont take more than 5 minutes.
Call it 15 minutes to be generous, and to allow Molly regen 1m of Essence.
And our intelligence services actually have had Red Court people to interrogate since we killed Arianna.
I dont expect this to be the final clash today.
And I want to keep something in reserve for then.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Yeah me too I voted for uju's plan though because it has our party take more initiative with those actions specified in the vote.
@Yog Can you add the Crown question from Uju's vote so our troops know more of the defences going in? Essence regen too.
- Location
- portugal
[X] Plan Reinforcements
15 minutes in the middle of combat engagement is not easy to get, and I think we won't get such a chance after this vote. And we need to brief them on the situation and location, not just their possible opponents.
Crown question yes, as that's important intel. Deliberately delaying... That I am not sure if it's a good idea. Sandra might notice that Xanadu attack didn't go as planned soon.
[X] Plan Reinforcements
-[X] Activate BSM, Leadership excellency
-[X] Crown question: Focus tunnel entrance scene: Current locations of underground Red Court members and defenses as on a map of the tunnels
-[X] Have Clippy look for tunnel maps
-[X] A trap's not a trap if you know it's there, meet the Red Court head on
--[X] Try to rally those vampires in outward-facing positions who you still know to be loyalists
--[X] Bring in some of your own fire teams from sanctuary, they might be trouble in public, but those tunnels should be private enough
I don't see how we can convert the loyalists. I don't think they know that there are actually any traitors. As far as they know we're just a terrifying eldritch abomination with a mind bending aura that commands respect who is trying to spread dissent and to allow us past their defences to where their injured leader is comatose.
Presumably 'terrifying eldritch abomination with a mind bending aura' is exactly the kind of threat Dagon should have warned his minions to expect given that may be a fair description of many Outsiders.
Presumably 'terrifying eldritch abomination with a mind bending aura' is exactly the kind of threat Dagon should have warned his minions to expect given that may be a fair description of many Outsiders.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Alright... the party should take simular actions to uju's vote when they deem necessary even when not specified. I would much rather hit a fortified position with troops.
Now I'm wondering how Molly will react if any of them permadie.
[X] Plan Reinforcements
15 minutes is my worst case.
QM says fireteams are on standby, so one minute would be closer to median. Not that I expect these events to go for more than fifteen minutes; firefights dont tend to last that long at close range.
We dont need them here.
As confirmed by Jerome and the Crown, the loyalists outnumber the enthralled/traitors, and there's only around 50 full Reds overall. The half-Red dhampires have been sent off to the city.
Recruiting the loyalists vastly reduces the power that Sandra can wield here.
Conversely, bringing in an external military force is going to look like an invasion, and will unite them against us, on terrain that they are familiar with and can delay us on.
Which will give Sandra enough time to hit stretch goals.
We dont want her hitting stretch goals.
The same way we recruited the Blood Pack in Cleveland. The same way we dealt with the Jade Dogs.
The same way we did much the same thing to Eiko's akuma to the point where they obeyed us anywhere that their binding didnt compel them to do otherwise.
This isnt new.
If we roll high enough, we can do this to CoDs. And Jerome was clear that the Reds recognize the factions themselves.
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You would basically be telling the old hands that the newcomers are the enemy and so is anyone who is too chummy with them. That is a message that is likely to resonate with at least some of the Reds, as Jerome here shows.
I think its a better idea to have the people there open the gates for you.
Like I've said previously, this is not looking to be our final confrontation with Sandra because we dont know the full dimensions of her plan to open the gates yet. There's no indication that she must defend this place or the Dragon.
The lady will run, and we'll have to run her down again.
There's at least one more major confrontation in our future after the tunnels.
Dont show our full hand here.
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One minute seems both overly generous, and is an eternity in a fight.
A round tends to be seconds, yes? Most of our fights tends not to last more than two to three rounds.
You are really overestimating our chances to be able to call on our troops later, when we can do it now.
Fire teams are very much not our full hand though. We can potentially escalate significantly harder with military assets from Sanctuary like VTOL drones or tanks piloted by Sutra.
Beyond that, if we do reveal cyber-bakemono with magitech weapons, what's she going to do in the next hour or so?
And if you're worried about her running, bringing in troops means we're much more likely to be able to prevent that, as we can send a squad to all the potential boltholds.
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Good night guys.
Infantry fire teams are very much near the full hand we can deploy in a major US city thats less than 10 miles from a major military base.
Nellis AFB is one of the biggest USAF bases operational.
Its literally 8 miles from downtown Las Vegas, and basically hosts every tactical aircraft available to the USAF, from F-22s to helicopter gunships. They host Red Flag exercises there.
Las Vegas is not the middle of nowhere.
It would be one thing if you were trying to deploy heavy shit in some deep rural county in the backwoods of the US, or even out in the Nevada desert. Or just out in the wilderness.
But not in the middle of a 2.3 million person metro with attached military basing
Spend some time altering her subsequent force mix to call up extra mistwraiths and Walkers, things that cyber bakemono can do shit about.
Get a couple mindwhammied Air Force crews from Nellis AFB to bring in helicopter gunships for the next clash.
Or MP squads with a couple light armored vehicles, from armored HMMVs to M1117s.
Or National Guard. Or Vegas SWAT.
The lady has been here since August at a minimum.
That is a LOT of time.
Give her a little credit for working up contingencies.
Hell, if she knows that we have a significant paramilitary force running around, just having multiple people call the Las Vegas PD and local news that there's a significant number of organized men wielding military weapons in the city will significantly impede any efforts to move that force across town.
Troops cannot prevent a magic-user activating a magic spell or magic item.
We had a televised firefight on the Strip yesterday involving RPGs, and someone just used nerve gas on a club less than 12 hours later. The city is already going to be on edge, and there's likely a heightened security presence on the streets, which in post-9/11 America might well include calling up the National Guard.
Nevermind how you expect these cyborgs to get around a strange city unobserved while loaded for MOUT.
This isnt Chicago, where Molly might/will very likely have custom vehicles for that purpose, if not right now, then after March.
So no, we arent having combat cyborgs walking around in daytime in a major US city.
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Never mind the fact that we're going to be Underground. First I have to say there is no way in hell that she's able to call up a single Walker within an hour not without sacrificing her own life period.
Second I'm pretty sure mistwraiths are from Mist born not Dresden files. You might mean Mistfiends but those aren't actually Outsiders those are natural denizens of the never never that are gaseous not naturally infused with mordite that was particularly Peabody's invention.
Third summoning is a very time intensive thing even if it took us 2 hours to get the reinforcements from our world which it won't she would still have to call up each and every individual Outsider that she wanted to use individually. Outsiders also aren't just immune to not Magic a gun with bullets in it will still kill a lesser outsider if it hits them enough.
Hell Walkers aren't even immune to normal fire much less normal attacks dresden banished He Who walks behind be blowing him up with regular gasoline.
Finally all of that assumes that she knows exactly that we're coming. That's not impossible but it also assumes that she can just move or leave the dragon at this moment.
In order:
In Blood Rites, Madge Shelly called up He Who Walks Behind, a great Walker, in less than 5 minutes. Onscreen.
And she was a bogstandard strega, a black witch working for Lord Raith. Not an active Outsider agent. Nevermind being a White Council tier wizard.
Dollars to doughnuts Sandra Marling can do much better, given who her patrons are.
After all, Victor Sells was able to do combat-time summoning of the toad-demon Kalshazakk in Storm Front, and he was no great paragon of magical knowledge.
Yes, mistfiend, not mistwraith. My apologies for the error.
But no, mistfiends are not natural denizens of the NeverNever; Dresden calls them Outsiders in Cold Days, in specific reference to the one that Peabody used to attack the White Council.
I snorted. "You missed out on the end. I hit that thing with my best shot, and I barely made it uncomfortable. It didn't leave because I hurt it. It left because it didn't expect me to fight clear of its whammy, and it didn't want to take any chances that I might get lucky and prevent it from reporting to its superiors."
"Still ran," Thomas said. "Yeah, that mind-meld thing was awful, but the bastard wasn't all that bad."
I sighed. "That little creep Peabody dropped one Outsider on a meeting of the Council. The best wizards in the world were all in that one room and took it on together, and the thing still managed to murder a bunch of them. It's hard to make magic stick to Outsiders. It's hard to make them leave. It's hard to hurt them. It's hard to make them die. They're insanely violent, insanely powerful, and just plain insane. But that isn't what makes them dangerous."
"Uh," Thomas said. "It isn't? Then what is?"
"They work together," I said quietly. "Near as we can tell, they all work together."
Thomas was silent for a moment as he considered the implications of that. "Work together," he said. "To do what?"
I shook my head. "Whatever they do. Their actions are not always predicated on rationality—or at least, that's what the Council thinks."
"You sound skeptical."
"The White Council always assumes that it's at least as smart as everyone else all put together. I know better."
"Because you're so much smarter than they are," Thomas said wryly.
"Because I'm on the street more than they are," I corrected him. "The Council thinks the Outsiders are just a giant box of crazy that can go rampaging in any random direction."
"But you don't think that."
"The phrase 'crazy like a fox' leaps to mind."
"Okay. So what do you think these Outsiders are doing?"
I shrugged. "I'm almost certain they aren't selling Girl Scout cookies. But don't quote me."
"Don't worry; I hardly ever want to sound clueless. But the fact that they're working together implies a purpose. A goal."
"Yes."
"So?" my brother asked. "What do they want?"
"Thomas, they're aliens. I mean, they're like super-mega-überaliens. They might not even think, at least not in the way we understand it. How the hell are we supposed to make even an informed guess about their motivation—assuming that they have one?"
"Doesn't matter how weird they are," Thomas said. "Moving together implies purpose. Purpose implies a goal. Goals are universal."
"They aren't from this universe. That's the point," I said. "Maybe you're right; I don't know. But until I have a better idea, it's smarter to keep reminding myself that I don't know, rather than assuming that I do know, and then translating anything I learn to fit my preconceptions."
"Here's a fact that is no assumption," Thomas said. "They wanted you."
"Yeah," I said.
"Why?" he asked.
"All I can do is guess."
"So guess."
I sighed. "My gut says they're planning a jailbreak."
"Still ran," Thomas said. "Yeah, that mind-meld thing was awful, but the bastard wasn't all that bad."
I sighed. "That little creep Peabody dropped one Outsider on a meeting of the Council. The best wizards in the world were all in that one room and took it on together, and the thing still managed to murder a bunch of them. It's hard to make magic stick to Outsiders. It's hard to make them leave. It's hard to hurt them. It's hard to make them die. They're insanely violent, insanely powerful, and just plain insane. But that isn't what makes them dangerous."
"Uh," Thomas said. "It isn't? Then what is?"
"They work together," I said quietly. "Near as we can tell, they all work together."
Thomas was silent for a moment as he considered the implications of that. "Work together," he said. "To do what?"
I shook my head. "Whatever they do. Their actions are not always predicated on rationality—or at least, that's what the Council thinks."
"You sound skeptical."
"The White Council always assumes that it's at least as smart as everyone else all put together. I know better."
"Because you're so much smarter than they are," Thomas said wryly.
"Because I'm on the street more than they are," I corrected him. "The Council thinks the Outsiders are just a giant box of crazy that can go rampaging in any random direction."
"But you don't think that."
"The phrase 'crazy like a fox' leaps to mind."
"Okay. So what do you think these Outsiders are doing?"
I shrugged. "I'm almost certain they aren't selling Girl Scout cookies. But don't quote me."
"Don't worry; I hardly ever want to sound clueless. But the fact that they're working together implies a purpose. A goal."
"Yes."
"So?" my brother asked. "What do they want?"
"Thomas, they're aliens. I mean, they're like super-mega-überaliens. They might not even think, at least not in the way we understand it. How the hell are we supposed to make even an informed guess about their motivation—assuming that they have one?"
"Doesn't matter how weird they are," Thomas said. "Moving together implies purpose. Purpose implies a goal. Goals are universal."
"They aren't from this universe. That's the point," I said. "Maybe you're right; I don't know. But until I have a better idea, it's smarter to keep reminding myself that I don't know, rather than assuming that I do know, and then translating anything I learn to fit my preconceptions."
"Here's a fact that is no assumption," Thomas said. "They wanted you."
"Yeah," I said.
"Why?" he asked.
"All I can do is guess."
"So guess."
I sighed. "My gut says they're planning a jailbreak."
No, Dresden the Starborn managed to hurt and banish one Walker by blowing up a gas station.
Thats very much not the same thing.
Its explicit that everytime the Red Court happened to throw even lesser Outsiders at the Wardens, the Wardens either failed or had great difficulty hurting them. And they carry firearms, melee weapons and magic, so they have a spectrum of response.
Harry is explicit about how hard it is to hurt even ordinary Outsiders, let alone Walkers.
Thats why Molly shanking them is such a big deal in this AU.
No, summoning is not an intense thing for entities you have a pre-existing relationship with.
We see the black sorceress Madge Shelly call up He Who Walks Behind in less than 5 minutes in Blood Rites.
We see the mercenary sorcerer Ernest Armand Tinwhistle aka Binder mass summon a specific breed of demons in combat time in both Turn Coat and Skin Game; he literally brought hundreds of them to Demonreach near the end of Turn Coat.
We saw the starter villain Victor Sells call up a demon on the spot in like six seconds or so in Storm Front.
We saw Dresden summon Sue in maybe 15 minutes in Dead Beat.
Earlier in the same book, we saw him summon the Erl King in minutes. We see him summon Uriel and Mab more or less instantly when on his broken back in Changes, inside his own head.
In this very quest, we have seen Corpsetaker summon a wailing of spectres and throw them at Molly, Gard and Michael back in our first full arc.
And we saw duke Skavis summon a Walker to inhabit his own body by just murdering his son
Sandra Marling is a valued Outsider agent, doing their work
And one thats likely banked a bunch of sacrifices ahead of time to boot.
She's going to have it easier than these folks if she needs to call up Outsider summons.
Contingency teleport is a Conveyance 3 ritual.
She doesnt need to know if we are coming or not to be ready to evacuate with her loot.Sorcerer Revised said: