- Location
- Germany
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- He/She/They
Photo confirmed that there are no unseen reinforcements from out of map coming, thez can't flank us with a surprising new unit
The manor is useless to both them and us
Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest
- Thread starter Photomajig
- Start date
- Fantasy Historic
Photo confirmed that there are no unseen reinforcements from out of map coming, thez can't flank us with a surprising new unit
The manor is useless to both them and us
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- She/They
Where's Elv Cav 1 right now?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I don't know, but they don't matter when it comes to the fort.
If they hole up in the fort we can be happy to let them sit there
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Our primary goal is to keep the royalists off the road, so I think we should absolutely keep the fortress inhabited.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/She/They
I don't think there's any use in arguing about the militia, but I do think that it's quite important to move the Human infantry northeast.
It opens up sightlines and brings the 312 into a better position.
Your worry is that it would allow for a desperate charge from cavalry 2 across the road if there's nothing blocking it, but I do not think that simply blocking the road will be of great help against that:
Blue is the approach from the road, black the approach from the south, assuming the humans block in the green tile.
The only tiles where the 312 would block anuel approach from are the three tiles to the Southeast of the blue 9s.
If we want to block a desperate charge we should be blocking the gap in the trees to the south east.
But I do not think that the cavalry will immediately charge again, even if it would be the mechanically superior option. Not even we are doing that, because throwing soldiers immediately into battle again Is quite cruel in fluff
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- They/Them
In theory, the Human Infantry could also manage it with the help of their free movement? I don't know whether it'd occur to them, but they are 'Rapid' and so maybe it would?
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- They/Them
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife
I guess the real question here is how much you're worrying about the possibility of the enemy to charge the cannons. They can't do so this round just because they can't know we're moving up, so that's basically the thing to debate IMO for this plan.
I guess the real question here is how much you're worrying about the possibility of the enemy to charge the cannons. They can't do so this round just because they can't know we're moving up, so that's basically the thing to debate IMO for this plan.
- Location
- Germany
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- He/She/They
That rapid trait is incredible vexing. The threat from the human infantry is definitely way more important in deciding the movement of the 312th than any cavalry.
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- She/They
Here, you have a point, because, in addition to not counting out the tiles on the southern approach, I missed that Village tiles don't increase move cost, and therefore the road itself doesn't have any mechanical benefit. There is a benefit to anchoring infantry to the north end of the woods, but it's much less of one than I thought. There's exactly one thing that not putting a unit on the road will let the enemy cavalry do that I think is beneficial, which is charging from what you have as Black 9 NW W W W into where we're putting the cavalry, then retreating E E E SE back behind the treeline and avoiding a retaliatory shot on turn 6. However, that would require the enemy to either anticipate our artillery move or be insanely dedicated to killing our friendly militia, and also is vulnerable to countercharges and ready fires from the 412th and 81s even if they do do it.I don't think there's any use in arguing about the militia, but I do think that it's quite important to move the Human infantry northeast.
It opens up sightlines and brings the 312 into a better position.
Your worry is that it would allow for a desperate charge from cavalry 2 across the road if there's nothing blocking it, but I do not think that simply blocking the road will be of great help against that:
Blue is the approach from the road, black the approach from the south, assuming the humans block in the green tile.
The only tiles where the 312 would block anuel approach from are the three tiles to the Southeast of the blue 9s.
If we want to block a desperate charge we should be blocking the gap in the trees to the south east.
But I do not think that the cavalry will immediately charge again, even if it would be the mechanically superior option. Not even we are doing that, because throwing soldiers immediately into battle again Is quite cruel in fluff
You've convinced me on this topic, and, even though SB&SK is the leading plan right now and we're pretty deep in the planning here, I'm going to propose an edit:
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife, Flanking Version
-[X] 310th Hum: RESTING
-[X] 312th Hum: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] 41st Hob: CHARGE E, E, E
-[X] 81st Elv: RESTING
-[X] 5th Hob. H.Art.: MOVE NE, E, E
-[X] Hobgoblin Militia: "Continue retreating along the road and fortify in BEAUME HOUSE, adjacent to our own reserves."
I was also tempted to move the 310th forward to cover the southeast of the future artillery position (NE E E), but I'm making the assumption that if they're moving cavalry forward this turn, it's Elv Cav 1, and if they're trying to charge anywhere, it's the place without units visible, as they've already taken heavy casualties and could do a successful stealth hit-and-run on where they think the arty is by going that route.
EDIT: slight change to movement to avoid eating a ready fire.
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I suppose the one question is the follow-up. They're not going to charge our Artillery right now, because right now when the actions are locked in they don't know it's coming, but once it is set up, the round after this coming round, they might go for it, but if we're close enough for either of our units to charge them it'd involve blocking them, I think?
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Basically the only options we've got there are to move the 310th now (which I decided against to make sure we don't suffer a sneak attack this turn pre-move) or to charge any charging cavalry with the 310th or 81st next turn, since both of them will be able to reach the "corridor" any cavalry attacking the new arty position from the south will use.
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- They/Them
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife, Flanking Version
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- They/Them
Incidentally, reappearance times:
Elven Cav 1 and 2 both routed on Round 3, but Elven Cav 1 got out of dodge in time, so it'll have spent this current Round, 4, resting.
So it'll be at 2/8 if it's not just fleeing (and both of them have terrible traits), and it would be absolutely stupid and in an opposite way from its commander to go out already, so it is likely that it'll Rest again and be at 4/8 by the end of Round 5. The question then is whether it rests one more time, returns to combat, or flees, so I'd say that's "Returns Round 6-8"
Elven Cav 2 will be at 2/8 at the end of Round 5, so I'd say Round 7-9 for it.
Halfling Militia 1 routed, but only got out of dodge on Round 3, so it likely spent Round 4 getting up to 2/5 Cohesion. It is likely to spend at least Round 5 Resting, to get up to 4/5 Cohesion. It could spend another Rest sub-optimally getting up to 5/5 Cohesion, and it might do so depending on things. Half Mil 1 is controlled by an Incompetent Officer, so who knows. Round 6-7 for its return.
So it's likely that for Round 5, Half Mil 2, 3, and Human Infantry 1 are the only units on their side that are relevant. If we can rout Hum Inf 1 and Half Mil 3 in the next two rounds, we should be ready for any reappearance by the above three units.
Elven Cav 1 and 2 both routed on Round 3, but Elven Cav 1 got out of dodge in time, so it'll have spent this current Round, 4, resting.
So it'll be at 2/8 if it's not just fleeing (and both of them have terrible traits), and it would be absolutely stupid and in an opposite way from its commander to go out already, so it is likely that it'll Rest again and be at 4/8 by the end of Round 5. The question then is whether it rests one more time, returns to combat, or flees, so I'd say that's "Returns Round 6-8"
Elven Cav 2 will be at 2/8 at the end of Round 5, so I'd say Round 7-9 for it.
Halfling Militia 1 routed, but only got out of dodge on Round 3, so it likely spent Round 4 getting up to 2/5 Cohesion. It is likely to spend at least Round 5 Resting, to get up to 4/5 Cohesion. It could spend another Rest sub-optimally getting up to 5/5 Cohesion, and it might do so depending on things. Half Mil 1 is controlled by an Incompetent Officer, so who knows. Round 6-7 for its return.
So it's likely that for Round 5, Half Mil 2, 3, and Human Infantry 1 are the only units on their side that are relevant. If we can rout Hum Inf 1 and Half Mil 3 in the next two rounds, we should be ready for any reappearance by the above three units.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Putting routed units into battle with 2 cohesion is mechanically optimal but I don't expect that it will be the default.
I do severely doubt that the Halfling militia have 5 max cohesion - that's our Drill+Morale and they additionally have -2 cohesion from being green!!
I do severely doubt that the Halfling militia have 5 max cohesion - that's our Drill+Morale and they additionally have -2 cohesion from being green!!
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Half Mil 3 is definitely routing absent divine intervention. Human Inf 1 is a wildcard thanks to that damn Rapid trait, and Half Mil 2 is a problem due to their inherent stealthiness, so we're going to have to see what the situation looks like after round 4 before we decide how to deal with them.
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How is it mechanically optimal? It might be in the right circumstances, like with Militia that are basically always going to Rout if hit really hard, but Routing takes up valuable time, resources, and so on.
Might be 4, then? I was basing it on our own allied Militia, which has 5 Cohesion.
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- Location
- New York
[X] Plan: Swift Blade and Slow Knife, Flanking Version
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
At the moment most units get over killed on cohesion with more damage than 4 cohesion. So the additional cohesion wont be very useful in these situations.
Only resting once preserves supplies too - if you rest twice before engaging you can return three times, if you rest once you can engage 5 times.
It also means that the units get faster into the battle, contributing damage faster. Even in situations where the 2 extra cohesion stops a rout it's only one lost turn to the rout - routing means 1 turn running away and 1 turn resting, while resting twice loses 1 turn of resting.
Just like with money, getting units fighting now and doing something is more valuable than getting that same unit later and I don't consider the +2 cohesion worth the loss of 1 round of damage
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Except of course while routing you can't resist and if the enemy does have cavalry or artillery they can slaughter you and you can do literally nothing about it.
Like, you can say all this, but you'd have to be very silly to go, "310th should return to fighting at 2/8 cohesion" since that seems like a very good way to unnecessarily lose the troops under your command.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I do think that returning the 310th to fighting at 2/8 would be the optimal move yeah.
If the enemy is chasing down a routing unit they aren't chasing down out troops who are shooting at them
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...if this actually is the optimal move, then @Photomajig should change the system to correct it because it's obviously stupid and self defeating?
Like it's not how war actually works? "I send in my exhausted and barely rested troops in because I can just Rest them again after they rout again" doesn't make any sense?
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Again, if this is actually so it should be patched because it doesn't simulate actual warfare at all. Continually sending in exhausted units that routed five minutes ago is a good way for the whole unit to dissolve.
Maybe some sort of rule involving repeated Routs hurting more to recover from? Because it makes sense, why wouldn't they start to lose faith and morale if you keep on throwing them into the meatgrinder unprepared?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I do agree that it doesn't make sense, that's why Im Not really advocating it or expecting the enemy unit to do it.
But for example, the enemy cavalry could spend more turns resting or they could go out with 2 cohesion and threaten our troops again, forcing us to brace units and protect the artillery. Attacking braced units with 4 cohesion increases survival chance from 25% to like 50%, but is that 25% really worth allowing us to spend an extra turn using an infantry freely?