Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
"Hey, Bob... Are we going to do anything about the girl wandering around humming the mission impossible theme?"
"Damn it Stewart. Not my problem."
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
I not sure if someone who truly believes in something can just "switch targets" like you seem to want Molly to offer.
- Location
- Germany
I'm pretty much against self-propagating mindwipes/mindcontrol in principle, even if it is for a good cause.
Yeah. Let's not make it a book. All we need is a little metal bar with a light. Make it effect anyone who sees the light. The Archive can just hold it up and flash whole groups at once.
Though we would need to make her an adorable little black suit and shades.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
At any rate I'll post the other option anyway on the off chance ya'll wanna do something more incharacter.
[X] Plan Oblivion Counter Warfare
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
[X] Plan Oblivion Counter Warfare
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
It's a viable alternative 5 dot upgrade, where Archive would equip a select group of True Venatori with such things (using Form of Hero's Shadow).
I am banking on how outsders are trying to use the girl to make new masks for themselves, and we fit the symbolism of the ritual she was a part of. We can slip into the mask she's making easily enough, and then make it so it focuses on us.
We shall see.
You know. I am not opposed to removing her faith in outsiders and then just... leaving her in Father Forthill's church. Let nature take it's course. Just because faith can be redirected doesn't mean we have to aim it at ourself.
That's very true, and I hope that I made it clear that in the vote, I am not insisting on reorienting it towards us. I just want to present an idea of reorienting it.We have a number of targets - us, Lash, White God.
- Location
- Estonia
[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
[X] Plan yoink, mine now
I can't see how Molly could, in character, side against both Michael and Harry over trying to save someone's life. Over other things, especially relating to her desire for independence and willingness to take risks, sure, but not over such a serious moral issues.
[X] Plan yoink, mine now
I can't see how Molly could, in character, side against both Michael and Harry over trying to save someone's life. Over other things, especially relating to her desire for independence and willingness to take risks, sure, but not over such a serious moral issues.
- Location
- washington
Ehhh I'd mostly agree if it wasn't the fact the thing we're trying to wipe out is empowered by knowledge of it and is trying to end the world. We're talking about making an actual difference in a war older than human history. Not even mentioning that it doesn't really harm much to do it.
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Thats very much an unforced error, by presenting a scenario where it might be interpreted as the Archive helping a new power to poach personnel and resources from an existing one.
Do remember that for the Archive, its neutrality in the greater politics of the supernatural powers is something it very much insists on because it allows it to do its job without the various powers getting in its way. To the point where Ivy was unable to offer Harry any help when Maggie was kidnapped because the Archive wouldnt let her.
The Archive wouldnt even let her talk to him when it called; Kincaid had to do it.
The possibility that it might be seen as getting involved in power politics?
Is something that it will take steps to avoid if at all possible.
We dont want to put it in that sort of conflict, because it wont react as we want.
I didnt notice.
Thanks for pointing it out. Going to do a re-read.
I'll give you this much:
No idea if its practical? But making a neuralyzer for Ivy/the Archive would be fucking hilarious.
And I think Molly would have been 8 when the first Men In Black movie came out, and the animated series ran between 1997 and 2001, when she was 8-12 years old.
So she would be in the demographic.
@uju32 does anyone know that the archive would be involved with that if we went with Yoink mine. Because we only just found out about the scheme then we contacted the archive. If we went with that plan I'm not sure there's anything actually connecting the Archive to it as it were. I might be wrong there though.
[X] Plan yoink, mine now
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] Faith can be redirected. Point out thematic and cosmetic similarities to the reality of your Court as one possible way to do so. Provide other alternatives too
--[X] a splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] Faith can be redirected. Point out thematic and cosmetic similarities to the reality of your Court as one possible way to do so. Provide other alternatives too
--[X] a splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
[X] Plan Oblivion Counter Warfare
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
If we want cult stuff/prayer charms then we should pick them up through something with the FCF.
Ivy's agents could access it with smartphones or whatever and through various means convince, trick, or compel people to read it.
It's a little cheesy, but we're talking about a very expensive and powerful artifact here. This sort of functionality doesn't seem that far out of line.
I think your fluff could use some work too, because if something with ill intent and a perfect mental defense reads the thing that sort of lore could cause issues.
A better way to do it might be to leave those functions off, and replace them with something that tempts people in its own right. By RaW these sorts of items are supposed to have some sort of gimmick controlling how you come under their influence, so maybe we could use that.
Make the text of the webpage useful occult lore, but if you read it you forget everything you know about the Outside in exchange and can't get it back unless you truly forget what you learned.
I really like this delivery mechanism, so I don't want to abuse it too hard, but there's some other stuff that might be acceptable for the prices involved.
Like this:
Make the text a detailed description of how a healthy human body works, possibly with a short preface hinting at a trade of dangerous lore for healing. If you read it you get a substantial amount of damage healed, but forget everything about the Outside and become incurious about the topic. With the escape condition being deliberately injuring themselves for twice what they were healed of.
This next one might be pushing it, but would also be sort of fun:
The people most vulnerable to cult recruitment are usually rendered vulnerable by some issue they're struggling with. Serious social isolation, chronic hardship, mental health problems of one degree or another, all sorts of things.
Lay the thing out as bait in a place people who'd get into this sort of thing would find it and frame it as some sort of secret deal. If you read the message all the way through it'll take some of your knowledge in exchange for a guarantee of aid where you need it most.
This'd also be an interesting option for all poking at the undiscovered talent problem.
Leave the mind control off, and instead put up a page with a simple focusing exercise as babby's first attempt to access their own magic and a primer on the laws. If they complete the exercise well enough to need it they're rewarded with Allies/Backup tuned to help them develop their magic responsibly.
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
He might not stop her, but it isn't the same as approving. I don't think either of them would view being in a cult as necessary enough that she has to offer to take up the role herself.
If we want cult stuff/prayer charms then we should pick them up through something with the FCF.
The council would probably not appreciate the idea of using it on themselves. Selling it as an alternative to being executed would probably get better results. Though either way it's the sort of thing we need a longer history with them before we ca propose it.
If the internet vector works then one bit artifact is better than a number of smaller ones.
Ivy's agents could access it with smartphones or whatever and through various means convince, trick, or compel people to read it.
It's a little cheesy, but we're talking about a very expensive and powerful artifact here. This sort of functionality doesn't seem that far out of line.
I think your fluff could use some work too, because if something with ill intent and a perfect mental defense reads the thing that sort of lore could cause issues.
I don't like the evangelism bit, but a widely accessibly mechanism for wiping these memories would be useful in a lot of ways. We could catch people digging where they shouldn't be or allow the Archive's people to save victims without needing a limit supply artifact directly in their hands.
A better way to do it might be to leave those functions off, and replace them with something that tempts people in its own right. By RaW these sorts of items are supposed to have some sort of gimmick controlling how you come under their influence, so maybe we could use that.
Make the text of the webpage useful occult lore, but if you read it you forget everything you know about the Outside in exchange and can't get it back unless you truly forget what you learned.
I really like this delivery mechanism, so I don't want to abuse it too hard, but there's some other stuff that might be acceptable for the prices involved.
Like this:
The owner and activator would be Ivy, with literally every written bit of medical information in human history available.
Make the text a detailed description of how a healthy human body works, possibly with a short preface hinting at a trade of dangerous lore for healing. If you read it you get a substantial amount of damage healed, but forget everything about the Outside and become incurious about the topic. With the escape condition being deliberately injuring themselves for twice what they were healed of.
This next one might be pushing it, but would also be sort of fun:
Ivy's probably not as good at this, but she shouldn't be incapable either. Note that contextual clause on the sort of assistance it can provide too. If that works they way I think it does we could set it up to say "help this person find what they need to be happy" and they'd get random assistance in the direction.
The people most vulnerable to cult recruitment are usually rendered vulnerable by some issue they're struggling with. Serious social isolation, chronic hardship, mental health problems of one degree or another, all sorts of things.
Lay the thing out as bait in a place people who'd get into this sort of thing would find it and frame it as some sort of secret deal. If you read the message all the way through it'll take some of your knowledge in exchange for a guarantee of aid where you need it most.
This'd also be an interesting option for all poking at the undiscovered talent problem.
Leave the mind control off, and instead put up a page with a simple focusing exercise as babby's first attempt to access their own magic and a primer on the laws. If they complete the exercise well enough to need it they're rewarded with Allies/Backup tuned to help them develop their magic responsibly.
COMMENTARY
At least some of the Shinma still exist, which proves the existence of some legacy code.
I wonder if thats the same thing as the Outer Gates.
I dont want to dig up my old Ex2E books to check.
That look of horror on Ivy's face makes me curious
The list of potential things we want to spend this scene on as a Crown focus only grows larger.
Generally a bad idea to kill people as a first option. The Archive didnt have options, we do.
If nothing else, Nemesis tends to target for possession or subversion load-bearing elements of Earthside institutions; even when they fail or are discovered, killing them often damages the organization itself.
It may be necessary to kill some people, but thats to be avoided if we can at all, like unnecessary surgery.
And Im noticing on a reread that Michael appears to be speaking Officially.
I can certainly take a hint.
11 successes on Urging Caution.
9 successes on Reading Ivy
5 successes on Lore of the Fair Folk; thank God that Occult is Key for Molly, or she'd have botched that.
Lash rolls 1 success on INT+Occult. Her Int+Occult pool is 9, so she has Intelligence 4, Occult 5.
Or Intelligence 5, Occult 4.
I dont think any of her stats is currently above human max.
- Location
- washington
With our luck we'll get a cryptic ass answer from the crown lol. Like crowns totally the single best thing we've chosen in this fic and probably nothing will ever compare. But, damn does it give cryptic bullshit at times.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
[X] Yog
[X] Plan Oblivion Counter Warfare
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
-[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
--[X] A splendor can be forged relatively easily, to make her incapable of caring for or even thinking about Outside. It can be further upgraded afterwards, scaled to automatically spread the effect to the masses [outline splendors from 3 to 5 points, culminating in Holy Book of Ignorance).
---[X] If such is made, Ivy would be the owner and thus immune to the effects and directing the use. You'll need help in getting the resources for the forging of higher versions.
--[X] Occult, Empathy excellencies
Then Ivy shoots down this option, if she thinks it's not viable. The vote is not presenting this as "we do it this way, or no way". It's "I also have this idea, let's discuss it". In order for the best solution to be found, all options need to be weighted.
I can agree with this, and it's not about being in a cult, it's about still having faith, instead of getting it ground into dust.
Depends on how committed they are to their actions. It would certainly add legitimacy if they, as leaders, made themselves unable to break the Laws they profess to protect and enforce first, before demanding it of others. But yes, it'd be easier to sell as a tool for either induction of new members or as a way to stop mass executions - I am fairly sure White Council doesn't enjoy having to do that.
Regarding fluff - I think I might reword it a bit, add some invocations of Advaita Iraivan (see below), but the point is, you need to define something, if only by its absence, in order to command someone to forget about it, I feel. It's a bit paradoxy.
Regarding the splendor construction - it's rather far from being made, right now we'd be making a 3 dot version, but once we get to 5 dots... Evangelism+Addiction combo makes it so True Venatori don't need to be involved in it spreading and propagating. It would be an autonomous weapon like that. We could switch it for something, but we only have 2 points free for everything else to work. As a possiblity, form of Ash and dust, so this can work on ghosts, and form of Portentuous Moonlight, so it works on spirits, might be a good idea.
That's probably better as a separate splendor (we have lots of good ideas for those, don't we? Red Court elders are about to become an endangered species). Perhaps a connected one (one webpage makes you forget everything you know of outside, the other gives you a primer on magic and changes destiny so you run into an ideal mentor for yourself via Illuminated Connections). Sounds like a grand project, if very, very expensive.
In an exalted crossover shinma pretty much have to still exist, as they define the setting existing. Not Creation, but the overall setting. Here is how shinma are described in the fair folk book:
Shinma are Azathoths. Blind idiot gods that define the underlying concepts needed for something to arise to define existence. Tools needed to make tools needed to make the concept of tools.
Yes, Outer Gates are a shinma, speciifically Shinma Nirakara (also, inititally, Creation was infinite in size):
This is the part Ivy was horrified about:
Cost: None; Mins: Heart 1, Essence 1;
Type: Simple
Keywords: Unshaped-only
Duration: Until terminated
Prerequisite Charms: None
Only technically considered a Charm at all, this power is really more of a plot device. Crossing through the shinma Nirakara at the Gateway of Sundraprisha has no cost. When the unshaped raksha's ruling Emanation activates this Charm, the Chaos
Lord's Heart Grace is reduced to 4. All of its other Graces shatter, and each of its Emanations other than its ruling Emanation dies instantly. All of the waypoints under the unshaped's control collapse and are sucked into the ruling Emanation, and a new
shaped raksha coalesces around it. The unshaped raksha's power condenses into new Graces and forms a coherent matrix of Wyld energy. Although the unshaped has wide latitude in choosing the ultimate structure of its shaped form, it is limited by a specific template that, as a practical matter, follows the guidelines for character creation outlined in Chapter Three.
In other words, activating this Charm allows the unshaped to "create a noble raksha character" under the normal character-creation rules for making noble characters, subject to the following modifications. First, the newly shaped raksha, as stated previously, has a Heart Grace of 4. Second, he automatically gains four free dots in the Birth Background. Finally, for every dot by which the unshaped raksha's original Heart Grace was reduced to reach the four-dot level, the shaped raksha gains 10 additional bonus points. The unshaped raksha has the option of reducing its Heart Grace to 3, gaining 10 more bonus points, but unshaped raksha never reduce themselves to below that. The advantages of 10 extra bonus points are simply not worth becoming a commoner, even a heroic one.
Once the Charm is activated, the unshaped becomes a shaped noble raksha for all purposes. He can use Assumption Charms and even acquire permanent mutations. He can enter Creation with appropriate protection. He can use Charms that have the Shaped-Only keyword on himself. As long as the raksha does not gain any permanent mutations, he retains the option of ending this Charm and becoming unshaped once more. To do so, the raksha must enter an unoccupied waypoint in the Deep Wyld, obtain ownership over it, and succeed in a Cup-shaping roll against a difficulty equal to his own permanent Essence. If the roll is successful, the raksha becomes unshaped once more. A raksha with a permanent mutation of any sort is incapable of passing back through the Gateway of Sundraprisha.
Even after becoming unshaped again, the raksha does not necessarily become the same unshaped he was before. Instead, the unshaped raksha possesses a new Heart Grace (rated at 5) whose Emanation is based on the personality and appearance it had while shaped, rather than that of the prior Heart Grace. The unshaped also acquires four new Graces, each of which is initially rated at 2, and the unshaped can distribute a number of dots equal to (the permanent Essence of the prior shaped raksha + 5) among those Graces. As the unshaped does so, four new Emanations come into existence, each of whom has the traits of a noble raksha with a Heart Grace of 3, plus 10 experience points per dot of permanent Essence the raksha had while shaped. The unshaped's Heart Emanation retains all of the shaped raksha's former memories but has little emotional connection to them. The other Emanations have no memories of shaped life.
Any shaped raksha character without permanent mutations can pass back through the Gateway of Sundraprisha and become unshaped. By doing so, however, the raksha ceases to be a playable character. Furthermore, even if a player's raksha character becomes unshaped and then becomes shaped again, the reshaped character is a completely new character unrelated in anyway to the prior shaped life except through
shared history. Basically, for a shaped raksha, crossing back through Nirakara is suicide in every way that matters.
Type: Simple
Keywords: Unshaped-only
Duration: Until terminated
Prerequisite Charms: None
Only technically considered a Charm at all, this power is really more of a plot device. Crossing through the shinma Nirakara at the Gateway of Sundraprisha has no cost. When the unshaped raksha's ruling Emanation activates this Charm, the Chaos
Lord's Heart Grace is reduced to 4. All of its other Graces shatter, and each of its Emanations other than its ruling Emanation dies instantly. All of the waypoints under the unshaped's control collapse and are sucked into the ruling Emanation, and a new
shaped raksha coalesces around it. The unshaped raksha's power condenses into new Graces and forms a coherent matrix of Wyld energy. Although the unshaped has wide latitude in choosing the ultimate structure of its shaped form, it is limited by a specific template that, as a practical matter, follows the guidelines for character creation outlined in Chapter Three.
In other words, activating this Charm allows the unshaped to "create a noble raksha character" under the normal character-creation rules for making noble characters, subject to the following modifications. First, the newly shaped raksha, as stated previously, has a Heart Grace of 4. Second, he automatically gains four free dots in the Birth Background. Finally, for every dot by which the unshaped raksha's original Heart Grace was reduced to reach the four-dot level, the shaped raksha gains 10 additional bonus points. The unshaped raksha has the option of reducing its Heart Grace to 3, gaining 10 more bonus points, but unshaped raksha never reduce themselves to below that. The advantages of 10 extra bonus points are simply not worth becoming a commoner, even a heroic one.
Once the Charm is activated, the unshaped becomes a shaped noble raksha for all purposes. He can use Assumption Charms and even acquire permanent mutations. He can enter Creation with appropriate protection. He can use Charms that have the Shaped-Only keyword on himself. As long as the raksha does not gain any permanent mutations, he retains the option of ending this Charm and becoming unshaped once more. To do so, the raksha must enter an unoccupied waypoint in the Deep Wyld, obtain ownership over it, and succeed in a Cup-shaping roll against a difficulty equal to his own permanent Essence. If the roll is successful, the raksha becomes unshaped once more. A raksha with a permanent mutation of any sort is incapable of passing back through the Gateway of Sundraprisha.
Even after becoming unshaped again, the raksha does not necessarily become the same unshaped he was before. Instead, the unshaped raksha possesses a new Heart Grace (rated at 5) whose Emanation is based on the personality and appearance it had while shaped, rather than that of the prior Heart Grace. The unshaped also acquires four new Graces, each of which is initially rated at 2, and the unshaped can distribute a number of dots equal to (the permanent Essence of the prior shaped raksha + 5) among those Graces. As the unshaped does so, four new Emanations come into existence, each of whom has the traits of a noble raksha with a Heart Grace of 3, plus 10 experience points per dot of permanent Essence the raksha had while shaped. The unshaped's Heart Emanation retains all of the shaped raksha's former memories but has little emotional connection to them. The other Emanations have no memories of shaped life.
Any shaped raksha character without permanent mutations can pass back through the Gateway of Sundraprisha and become unshaped. By doing so, however, the raksha ceases to be a playable character. Furthermore, even if a player's raksha character becomes unshaped and then becomes shaped again, the reshaped character is a completely new character unrelated in anyway to the prior shaped life except through
shared history. Basically, for a shaped raksha, crossing back through Nirakara is suicide in every way that matters.
- Location
- washington
Its not even morgan the guy who does the most of said executions canonically sees himself as a monster for doing what he does. A necessary one of course which I even agree with dark magic shit is fucking horrible in dresden files. Making an alternative would be nice.