Missing the word 'also', fixed. Thanks for all the spellchecking as always.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Missing the word 'also', fixed. Thanks for all the spellchecking as always.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
I don't want Molly to be killing people for experience. It's not a path I want an exalt walking.
I don't want Molly to be killing people for experience. It's not a path I want an exalt walking.
This is an opportunity for Molly to extend a hand towards a young woman, and say to her "believe in me, who believes in you". Sprial Energy burning Essence anima included.
More seriously, mechanically completely scrubbing the impact of an outsider from someone consenting to such scrub should not be hard. Infernals are built for prayer eating. We have Tiffany, who can also help. If the girl is a CoD already, we have that bonus too. It's possible that this triggers tlf (removing someone from a dangerous Cult is protecting them from their environment, as is preventing someone from reaching Outside).
Narratively, we didnt kill Maeve, who was outright possessed. We didn't kill Lash by simply exercising her and then killing her when we first learned exorcism. Unless she's a willing pawn, the girl is innocent, and we have pulled off harder and less deserved redemptions. We did kill Broken Seeker's minion, yes, but overall we tend to be on "we can salvage her" side.
This would also be a perfect opportunity to buy fulfill prayer (12 xp), if @DragonParadox allows us an opportunity.
So:
1) This is a correct moral choice, and it plays better to our intimacies (Harry, Michael)
2) The actual risks are minimal given our available resources
3) The possible gains are high (a Cult, a circle member with True Faith high level merit, a new agent against Nemesis z if the girl can be turned, she's likely to feel furious at the killer of her parents, a better inroads with Titania, who, I bet, would prefer the girl to be saved)
From both utilitarian and moral perspective, we should at least attempt a rescue, not commit to murder immediately
More seriously, mechanically completely scrubbing the impact of an outsider from someone consenting to such scrub should not be hard. Infernals are built for prayer eating. We have Tiffany, who can also help. If the girl is a CoD already, we have that bonus too. It's possible that this triggers tlf (removing someone from a dangerous Cult is protecting them from their environment, as is preventing someone from reaching Outside).
Narratively, we didnt kill Maeve, who was outright possessed. We didn't kill Lash by simply exercising her and then killing her when we first learned exorcism. Unless she's a willing pawn, the girl is innocent, and we have pulled off harder and less deserved redemptions. We did kill Broken Seeker's minion, yes, but overall we tend to be on "we can salvage her" side.
This would also be a perfect opportunity to buy fulfill prayer (12 xp), if @DragonParadox allows us an opportunity.
So:
1) This is a correct moral choice, and it plays better to our intimacies (Harry, Michael)
2) The actual risks are minimal given our available resources
3) The possible gains are high (a Cult, a circle member with True Faith high level merit, a new agent against Nemesis z if the girl can be turned, she's likely to feel furious at the killer of her parents, a better inroads with Titania, who, I bet, would prefer the girl to be saved)
From both utilitarian and moral perspective, we should at least attempt a rescue, not commit to murder immediately
So, regarding the update - Archive has deep enough lore that I am betting it wasn't made in this age. Ivy is also not fully aware of all of Archive's functions and restrictions all the time. And it wouldn't surprise if "circumvent the blocks with a perfect effecf" was the intended way to access the information and possibly the admin authorization requirement.
I'll have to look through the fair folk book to understand everything said, but I am fairly sure that "raksha have lost their ability to shape themselves and can now only select from shapes created by (collective) Faith" has deep, deep implications, and hints at very elder essence rituals right up there with stuff like making of Time and Causality.
I'll have to look through the fair folk book to understand everything said, but I am fairly sure that "raksha have lost their ability to shape themselves and can now only select from shapes created by (collective) Faith" has deep, deep implications, and hints at very elder essence rituals right up there with stuff like making of Time and Causality.
This I strongly disagree with. Getting a plurality of exalts to listen to us and keeping the ones who don't from signing up with anyone else is a ridiculously difficult proposition.
Remember that our social skills come down largely to excellency, which they will also have. They will likely also have strong motives that aren't necessarily things we can support.
Even supposing we get 20 and 10 to the opposition in some form what we end up with is an exalt enhanced supernatural war.
Until the Sidereals decided they weren't interested in playing advisor anymore. Even when they were still trying to cooperate it didn't stop the solars from doing any old crazy thing they wanted. Sure they were suffering from the great curse, but what that did was push their motives around. They were hard headed all on their own.
We aren't starting from a position of strength and relative ideological uniformity where exalts functionally have no other choices.
I don't agree in the least. The things they can do are way too different.
Take 50 high strength wizards who had 30 years to practice magic, that is to say Dresden tier practitioners, and let them loose on the setting by surprise. They're certainly going to make a difference, and the council would welcome the help, but they aren't going to fundamentally alter the equation.
Take 50 exalts and give them a year to practice, or about twice the IC runtime of the quest, then let them loose on the world. The difference should be immediately apparent.
They grow differently, get access to abilities that touch on the high end of the setting more easily, and require less help to keep growing.
If Harry wants to kill an immortal he needs to spend a lot of time working out how or else get a lot of support from other people and still has to play with setting things up just the right way. An exalt can just buy a charm and anything they can beat in a fight isn't coming back.
Exalts aren't just bullshit superhumans capable of deeply impacting the world around them completely on their own when they're doing what we want.
No they don't. They have to learn how to actually perform that kind of magic for one, and for another they need names to pick things up.
It's possible to get that stuff, but a caster who wants to summon outsiders can't do it in their basement on day one.
Wizards can do a lot, but they need to put phenomenal amounts of effort into getting things exalts take for granted where they can get them at all, many of which are very significant on the strategic level.
Against many targets the difference between them is like the difference between being a grenade and a missile - you're just as dead either way. For harder targets the difference is very important.
[X] Yog
it would be massively out of character for Molly at this time to go for the kill outright. it might be an interesting character moment for her to fail at helping and being forced to kill her or feel she has no choice but at the moment jumping straight for the kill I feel is out of character for her.
it would be massively out of character for Molly at this time to go for the kill outright. it might be an interesting character moment for her to fail at helping and being forced to kill her or feel she has no choice but at the moment jumping straight for the kill I feel is out of character for her.
Stop being pendantic. I am talking about conversations.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
You ever have a conversation with your boss where they threatened to fire you?
yeah and plenty of people decide fuck that and will push against their boss or get fired rather then comply, or preform malicious compliance or find any way to screw over the person threatening them.
That doesn't change my mind it changes my behaviour, that is not the problem here.
No? An E5 prepared Molly's social skills also include splendors that grant her +2 successes in social rolls, and make her roll at -2 DC. large quantities of minions that have been VEE'd to become friends with the exalt we are working on, splendors that generate and manipulate social connections. Fortune path enchantmennts to further grant her bonuses. Etc.
I wasn't speaking about their role as advisors. I was speaking about them finding, abducting, and indoctrinating all new sidereals. Which is how sidereals roll.
Why would I take 50 high strength wizards? I would take 200 high strength wizards, 1000 of normal wizards (of whom 100 are Law Breakers), and 10000 low level talents. Some of the wizards would tap into nuclear power plants for power. Others into volcanoes. At least one would start a holocaust to fuel a necromantic grand ritual. normal level wizards would summon demons and outsiders, and kill presidents of foreign countries from afar.
It might be impossible to save everyone, but the entire point of the Exalted vs WoD system is that we are the impossible which breaks the despair of the setting over our knee.
[X] Yog
Edit: My thoughts on this matter also drift to both "Believe in the me who believes in you" from Gurren Lagann like Yog said and "If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well, then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them 'til they believe! No matter how many times it takes."-Madoka Kaname
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Vote now, commentary and stunt later.
VOTE
[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
RATIONALE
I dont like Yog's plan.
Its both unnaturally self-aggrandizing for Molly, and it is risking conflict with the Summer Court by giving the impression we are poaching their people. Not to mention that it might leave Ivy and Kincaid with the impression that Molly is using them to expand influence into the Summer Court.
We dont need that smoke.
AND its pre-committing Molly to major AP commitments and Resource outlays; we dont currently have all that much raw material for making Splendors.
However, I do agree that we dont want to default to killing people if we can salvage them; thats a bad habit to acquire.
Furthermore, it is true that Nemesis apparently targets people of value that would be useful to the rest of the world and the society they are from. Killing them weakens the society that was targeted.
If we can salvage them, we should.
VOTE
[X] Side with your father, if there is any hope of saving the changeling girl you should try
RATIONALE
I dont like Yog's plan.
Its both unnaturally self-aggrandizing for Molly, and it is risking conflict with the Summer Court by giving the impression we are poaching their people. Not to mention that it might leave Ivy and Kincaid with the impression that Molly is using them to expand influence into the Summer Court.
We dont need that smoke.
AND its pre-committing Molly to major AP commitments and Resource outlays; we dont currently have all that much raw material for making Splendors.
However, I do agree that we dont want to default to killing people if we can salvage them; thats a bad habit to acquire.
Furthermore, it is true that Nemesis apparently targets people of value that would be useful to the rest of the world and the society they are from. Killing them weakens the society that was targeted.
If we can salvage them, we should.
Note that I am not insisting on realigning faith towards Molly, merely providing it as an option. And I think at least the part about outside scrubbing splendor is also viable. That's a cure for the influence of outsiders. Maybe leave that at least?
Interesting if the Fey cannot make forms by themselves, that must means someone altered the defenses of reality to denies the ablity to enter, if they conform to realities rules. No wonder they are so desperate for someone that can invite them in, if they craft true fey forms they would be massive stronger.
Also I am not sure if you guys noticed but Michael's moral argument sounds oddly sterile for the man, that is very much intentional and something Molly noticed. This capital L Language is very good at describing things but not nearly as good at expressing human emotion, at expressing anything at a human level in fact. Whoever or whatever used to speak it was anything but humane, which makes the fact that it is apparently built into both Molly's soul-lore and the universe on some level more than a bit scary for her.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
Katherine isn't the only person who wants to summon Outsiders. We cannot make it our MO to spend possibly days talking every Outsider cultist down. That will take too damn long, not to mention someone could show up behind us and change their mind when we aren't looking.
So the current plan is to make an item to remove the capacity to knowingly work for or think of the Outside? That sounds like it works, not just now but for the future too.
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Harry - Molly, when did you intend to let me know it is within your power to make everyone on the planet forget something? That seems like the sort of very important information I would like to know. Hellsbells Molly, how can I know you haven't already done something like that!
Molly - I assure you Harry, I absolutely have not made an artifact that erased from collective human knowledge of anything. What? Do you think I need to cover up me asking you on a date and getting rejected or something else embarrassing?
Harry - That's a very specific no Molly!
[X] Plan yoink, mine now