Let's pester DragonParadox for home-brewing CCI?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Germany
We are also fast.
WoD is pretty generous in allowing you to move per turn without spending an action on it, unlike D&D.
We can teleport up to 9 yards.
We can go half our running speed per round without wasting an action, our base running speed is 32 meters (then tripled by a passive charm effect).
So we can't move out of our own range to strike again in melee.
We had the argument, yes. You didn't address it then, and aren't addressing it now. @DragonParadox this is important, so, please, we need a ruling here. The text of Hell-Walker technique says:
In Dresden universe many beings that qualify as spirits speak mortal languages (we don't know if this is their native language or not, but at least for ghosts it would be). Does this means that the charm actually makes Molly an omniglot, knowing all mortal languages?
I don't believe so. I think the effect of the charm would be "when Molly talks to a character that is a spirit, she can understand them, and they can understand her". So, if she's talking to an ancient chinese ghost, she would be able to speak and understand (or be understood) the dialect of ancient chinese the ghost speaks. But if she tries to talk to a living chinese speaker (or an akuma), she would not be able to do it.
- Location
- Germany
"After suffering damage"
So first you have to survive the Eye of Balor without perfectly defending against it, then you are immune to it.
Not a good deal, I think.
But it's pretty great against mooks with guns.
That the flaw is really obvious because it involves observing that we don't like light and seeing if holy magic is effective on something that looks like a devil, and that our opponents can easily give us the vamp treatment. This is a staple of DF fights, so I don't expect us to keep such an obvious pattern secret very long.
We've already had encounters with people like Broken Seeker in daylight in any case, which is where we'd want this sort of thing the most. We also just go around doing a lot of stuff during the daytime, and it makes for a good time for an ambush independent of actually having observed a weakness.
Finally, each of our options has a twist to it to go with the weakness. CCI lets you pay more to be immune to arbitrary attacks from a single target for a turn. WStW lets you pay more to get 1 + [essence level] perfect dodges to spread across all attacks regardless of source in a turn. ABF and BHU let you check if your active defenses will be enough before forcing you to activate them.
BME has the most exploitable weaknesses and the bonus power is more mobility than anything else. That does have some advantages, but since we're a melee build it also causes issues with our action economy and ability to protect other people in combat.
Being able to perfectly defend against 4 attacks for 2 motes, eat an arbitrarily long flurry, or only need to activate it if an enemy actually rolls well enough to make us soak something are better abilities for the purpose we're buying the charm to fill.
That leaves us in the position of using our movement to manage our charm's effects instead of using it for something else though.
Kemayo
A Certain Cheerful Tone Of Voice
- Location
- Missouri
There's a lot of outdoor areas in the NeverNever. There might not literally be "the sun that exists on Earth" there, but there's certainly something like a sun. I'd be very skeptical that standing outside in full NeverNever-sunlight wouldn't count as being in direct light for this charm. 🤔
(I definitely think that "there's shadows inside your mouth and under your clothes" is a strained argument for using the charm, too. The wording makes me think that you clearly have to be standing in shadow, as in your whole body is shadowed. "I'm wearing fully covering armor" doesn't feel conceptually right for it.)
Anyway, sounds like a ruling would be helpful about what counts here.
Molly could presumably also use her Crown on whatever's attacking her, if she wants to burn that question-source. That's spending one essence once to permanently know about the type of enemy, rather than having to spend one extra essence every time she activates the charm against them. (Though I think it's not a reflexive action, so she'd have to actually do it before she needs to use the defense?)
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
KInda, but having easily triple the movement of a regular person (and 10 times if we need it) means that we can essentially ignore a 9 yard or less jump in our combat-planning.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
No plan has more than 4 votes so it is far from too late.
Incidentally can I comment on how annoying it is to have both yards and meters in the same rule book?
Last edited:
It wont help with mook-spam, unfortunately.
In any kind of situation with a miniboss and his mookswarm, you can expect situational buffs to come into play.
Its a significant utility charm, but its not immediately urgent.
That is not true.
I addressed it now, I addressed it then.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy
Counterpoint: Source Code Compliance Protocol already exists as a 1-dot charm thats free to use for linguistics purposes, and which you can spend 1m to avoid damage to others. Yet this was also made available. As for what the charm is supposed to do, see Rendered Villain Dispersal. We worked...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
You just either missed it, or ignored it. To quote myself:
- Location
- Germany
I just use them interchangible.
In most situation in this quest it doesn't matter.
Surviving is the Anima ability of the Full Moon Caste
They are guaranteed to tank it once.
Turn on their regeneration, and they will tank it and keep going for the rest of the scene.
I want to remind everyone that is voting for Uju that his choice of Hell Walker technique rather than Source Code compliance protocol is based on a ridiculous reading of the charm, making it do things it clearly doesn't, it allows to talk to all spirits regardless of their language, not to understand all languages for everyone, and most of our interlocutors haven't been spirits.
[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have Reliable Defence
[X] Plan Speak Softly and Have Reliable Defence
[X] Plan Speak Fervently and Have Reliable Defence
[X] Plan Speak Softly and Have Reliable Defence
If you have a shadowless artificial light area it cannot be used, but those are pretty rare
Hellwalker lets you talk to spirits, generally by giving you access to a spiritual language which matches that spirit. If there were in some corner of the world a spirit that spoke only French, then yes you would learn French off it. But it is going to default to whatever the spirit's 'native' language is, which is rarely something mortals speak or that mortals speak anymore.
- Location
- Germany
Kay, the strategy might work.
Still, you go down to Crippled penalties and spend 2 Essence, so you are in a less than optimal situation against any other attacks than burning demon-eyes.
It says understand their language. Not talk to them.
There's a reason for that.
It means you can read it. And write it.
Send letters, read inscriptions.
We're not always fighting people operating at mortal speed though.
If we are fighting a mortal speed opponent then the advantage is so pronounced we could take a different perfect and simply tun around after toggling it to much the same effect. If we aren't then the distances matter again and we're giving them an opportunity.
So Uju's reading of it is wrong, as expected.
It does not give us the ability to be an omniglot, as he is claiming.
I read it, it was not at all convincing. WoD, the setting ExvsWoD was made for, is also a world with a large amount of ghosts, and spirits to whom human languages are native. Your interpretation is as ridiculous as assuming that Faster than Sight allows us to run at above C. More ridiculous than twisting CCC into allowing us to fly by convincing ourselves that gravity is a physical obstacle and rolling to dodge the ground when falling at DC6.
No, you are overextending the charm's effect. If you want to play word games, it says the language, not languages. So, pick one. Or, rather, gain understanding of enochian or something like that.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
One behalf of VEE I want to mention that it is also explicitly able to remove flaws from a character sheet.
Enemies is a flaw.
If we want to give Tiffany an offer she can't refuse this seems like a good time for it.
Now I have no idea how that wish would work, but it explicitly does.
Enemies is a flaw.
If we want to give Tiffany an offer she can't refuse this seems like a good time for it.
Now I have no idea how that wish would work, but it explicitly does.
Last edited:
Enemy is a Background, you would be able to drop it by one dot.
Like this maybe?
Fate manipulation, not even once.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well I guess that encourages Tiffany to keep working for us for a few years then.
Like this maybe?
Fate manipulation, not even once.
Or we get to add extra rules to the divine game.
Last edited:
Ok, let's address this point by point:
1) Holy Magic (well, "effects targeted at creatures of darkness"). That's an issue, yes, but against most of our enemies, who are themselves creatures of darkness most likely, wouldn't be capable of utilizing. Maybe some of the wizards, but not old monsters. Maybe, maybe some of red court using stolen god powers.
2) Daylight is relatively easily mitigated via alchemical mist grenades or even mundane smoke grenades. A 2 dot prodigy almost certainly can generate localized darkness field for a scene. Make some supplementary gear for allies to allow them to see in it.
3) BME also has a supplementary feature of teleportation. If we are allowed to use it while in RVD form, it opens a lot of options for infiltration. And here I would like to check certain things with @DragonParadox :
a) Can we use BME to teleport between two volumes of liquid while in RVD'ed state?
b) Does stomach acid (or, hell, full bladder) count as a volume of liquid for the purpose of RVD?
Even assuming that cosplaying stomach bottle bug is not in the cards, teleportation is still ultra-damn useful against many a mundane target. Like bank vaults. Most of those are usually not lit when closed. That effect alone is worth the purchase.
Not to mention voluntary attack potential for use in darkened environments.
VEE arranges fate to twist in a way that delivers the wish. It doesn't do flat. So, removing a dot of enemy: Lasciel (from N/A to 5, likely) would probably involve a situation where Tiffany is in a position to help Lasciel. Which she would probably balk at. Unintended consequences are definitely a thing here.
Point of order:
This is the exact language of the charm:
The choice of words is significant. Becaue it suggests both reading and writing.
Inscriptions on ancient walls, hieroglyphics, that sort of thing.
This is narratively because its the Dresden Files.
Spirits speak human languages here, and only human languages, because they are largely a reflection of human society. Fae fashions reflect human society and changes in it.
Dr Miyamune, the baku from Day One, literally spawned from the NeverNever less than ten years before its showing up and only speaks English and I think Japanese. Ulsharavas the divinatory spirit speaks English. Chaunzaggoroth the demon speaks English. The Hecatean Hag spoke English and Greek. The Accords are in English. The spider-fae that Dresden was almost ambushed by on the road to Edinburgh in Turn Coat speak English.
All ghosts are spirits, and the sapient ones speak and write human languages.
This isnt like vanilla OWoD, where some spirits have a separate language, at least in Mage and Werewolf.
No spirits here do.
Besides maybe Angels.
Even in Exalted, Old Realm was the same language spoken by gods, spirits and humans in the Age of Glory.
Same language used for Exalted sorcery.
No differentiation.
Last edited:
If you are pedantic the text, then Hell-Walker is even more limited. Because it says "understand the language of spirits". "The language" is singular. You gain understanding of one language, which is of spirits. You can be understood by spirits, and you understand one language of some kind (probably old realm, or enochian, or pre Tower of Babel unified mortal language). Nowhere does it say that you gain understanding of multiple languages.
And no, you don't need to speak their language for a charm to force comprehension of what you are saying on a spirit.