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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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BronzeTongue said:
1) Molly isn't a tech exalt. Outside of mechanics she personally can lacks the skill to matter here and we'd have to spend a lot to get up there.
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Given our experience in car making this is a bit arguable.
BronzeTongue said:
2) Magic currently requires empowered specialists. The setting isn't overflowing with magic items for a reason, and it's because people who can make them at all are rare for reasons other than lack of knowledge.
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Transition to / conflict between medieval magical guilds / master-apprentice systems of Earth and modern-like magitechnical industrial complex of our realm seems to be one of the coming conflicts.
BronzeTongue said:
3) This charm is about drawing on ancient knowledge, power, and authority. That's what differentiates it from regular crafting which can be bought through other means.
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Ok, here I disagree. This is the lore text of the charm we bought:
The Infernal visits a deep place between nightmare
and inspiration, and there she glimpses the dim shape
of a horror with which to shake the pillars of Heaven.
She casts her vision into the teeth of impossibility and
shatters them with her Essence, laying bare a path to
make the impossible real. Everything past that is just
putting in the work.
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There's actually nothing here about past glories. It's all about "making impossible real" and "inspiration to create horrors with which to shake the pillars of Heaven".

Then there's an example of what can be designed:
Once she designs the Wonder, the Exalt must
then create it herself – likely an extended Craft or
Technology roll. Some projects, it should be noted,
while technically within the scope of the Exalt's imagination,
may be extremely difficult or even impossible
to actually create. Are orbital space bases that double
as giant city-killing lasers awesome? Yes. Can the Exalt
dream up the design for such a thing? Possibly. Can she
actually build all of the parts? It would take billions of
dollars, decades of solo labor, and then the Infernal
would have to solve the problem of actually getting all
those parts into space and assembled in zero gravity. It
might be better to stick to something like a gun that
shoots tiny, carnivorous demon worms that eat their
targets from the inside out.
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There were no orbital stations in Creation, because there was no orbit. Not unless we are talking Spiral, I guess.

So, my point is that this is actually one charm about bringing something new into the world, not dredging up degraded copies of past glories.
 
DragonParadox said:
Warlocks are not invested with darkness so MiS does not do anything, but False Spring Beckon, which you would have to refresh every three days would arrest the mental issues of being a warlock. As with Most things infernal, it is not that the bad thing does not happen, it is that it does not take effect, as long as the infernal is pleased.
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Is Lash a creature of darkness, and would her swearing to serve Molly avert anything useful? (Assuming that Lasciel herself counts, she might get out of some of the drawbacks of being stuck in the coin... but Lash is a very different entity, and in canon was in the process of developing free will and her own agenda, so I don't know that she's actually bound by anything relevant to MiS.)
 
LightLan said:
I thought that was three weeks?
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Right three weeks

Kemayo said:
Is Lash a creature of darkness, and would her swearing to serve Molly avert anything useful? (Assuming that Lasciel herself counts, she might get out of some of the drawbacks of being stuck in the coin... but Lash is a very different entity, and in canon was in the process of developing free will and her own agenda, so I don't know that she's actually bound by anything relevant to MiS.)
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Molly very strongly suspects she is, but she is not sure since all she has is a magical phone line (she did not have Hellscry the last time they spoke in person). As to what, if anything, swearing an oath to her might do Molly has no idea.
 
It occurs to me that popping Lash out into a cloned body would be the perfect opportunity to force her to go to high school and be in Molly's mean girls clique with Izzy. No, we're not deliberately torturing the semi-ex-Fallen with high school attendance, how could you even suggest such a thing? 😇
 
Kemayo said:
It occurs to me that popping Lash out into a cloned body would be the perfect opportunity to force her to go to high school and be in Molly's mean girls clique with Izzy. No, we're not deliberately torturing the semi-ex-Fallen with high school attendance, how could you even suggest such a thing? 😇
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The real problem with giving Lash her own body is that there is a good chance that the first thing she does with it is take up Lashiel's coin.

If we give her a body it's going to be in our kingdom a world away from the coin.
 
fictionfan said:
The real problem with giving Lash her own body is that there is a good chance that the first thing she does with it is take up Lashiel's coin.

If we give her a body it's going to be in our kingdom a world away from the coin.
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That's difficult.

Firstly in the practical matter, because it's in Dresden's warded safe-room under concrete and more warding.

But much more on the metaphysical level.
Lasciel can only act through mortals who willingly take up her Coin.
That's the deal, that's why she and her fellows are still here in the game and not smitten by Micheal (the big one, not Dad) the moment they leave Hell.
If Lash-in-a-body took up Lasciels Coin, what would she be?
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's difficult.

Firstly in the practical matter, because it's in Dresden's warded safe-room under concrete and more warding.

But much more on the metaphysical level.
Lasciel can only act through mortals who willingly take up her Coin.
That's the deal, that's why she and her fellows are still here in the game and not smitten by Micheal (the big one, not Dad) the moment they leave Hell.
If Lash-in-a-body took up Lasciels Coin, what would she be?
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Lash would be a mortal with as much right to take up the coin as any other if we made her a body of flesh and blood and assume her to have free will.

If we don't assume her to have free will then we should not be bothering with this.
 
fictionfan said:
Lash would be a mortal with as much right to take up the coin as any other if we made her a body of flesh and blood and assume her to have free will.

If we don't assume her to have free will then we should not be bothering with this.
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*Rolls for it* Let me put it this way, a sliver of an angel is still a sliver of an angel even if it be writ in mortal minds, that understanding itself is divine. If you embody that into the work of Exalted Craft you are likely to get something interesting
Yes! For Science! Do it! What does this metaphysics do? Yes YES!*

*The sound of Molly's Inner Twilight Caste Solar :V
 
DragonParadox said:
*Rolls for it* Let me put it this way, a sliver of an angel is still a sliver of an angel even if it be writ in mortal minds, that understanding itself is divine. If you embody that into the work of Exalted Craft you are likely to get something interesting
Yes! For Science! Do it! What does this metaphysics do? Yes YES!*

*The sound of Molly's Inner Twilight Caste Solar :V
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We would be making a Exalted of some kind.
 
[X] Come clean to Harry about this, I am not talking to you behind his back
 
fictionfan said:
We would be making a Exalted of some kind.
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No... an Exalted is defined as a mortal invested with the power of the divine. This would be pretty much the exact opposite, taking a spirit and putting it inside an (idealized) human form. Lash is designed to be a parasite, so the best way to embody her is to put that into a perfect host with a lot of essence tolerance without a human mind to contest her.

If anything it would be most like Rhashka nobility taking form.
 
DragonParadox said:
No... an Exalted is defined as a mortal invested with the power of the divine. This would be pretty much the exact opposite, taking a spirit and putting it inside an (idealized) human form. Lash is designed to be a parasite, so the best way to embody her is to put that into a perfect host with a lot of essence tolerance without a human mind to contest her.

If anything it would be most like Rhashka nobility taking form.
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I see no reason to make it an idealized body. We can make trade offs for greater power MIS will cover the gaps and that works as a failsafe.

This is Infernal crafting after all.
 
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fictionfan said:
I see no reason to make it an idealized body. We can make trade offs for greater power MIS will cover the gaps and that works as a failsafe.

This is Infernal crafting after all.
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Sure that is something you guys could talk about if you vote to make the offer first, this is just a stray thought going though Molly's brain at the moment about what she could do with the aspect of a Fallen Angel when and if she tears it out of its intended place.
 
fictionfan said:
The real problem with giving Lash her own body is that there is a good chance that the first thing she does with it is take up Lashiel's coin.
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Honestly, I think the real reason Molly wouldn't do my high school gag-punishment is that letting Lash be around Molly's classmates / friends would represent a substantial level of trust in someone who's a superhuman manipulator. The coin would be far more easily safeguarded, really.
 
Also we should maybe talk about how this gray council should be a great place to share our information about the white council traitors.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Firstly in the practical matter, because it's in Dresden's warded safe-room under concrete and more warding.
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IIRC pretty much every shade can teach their host a ritual to summon the Coin to them.
Even through Wards.

I vaguely recall that getting mentioned when Harry offers the Church to take the Coin so he literally can't take it up.
 
Frankly, the only meaningful question to ask is something like "Why did the rebellion start?". Because everything else either could be sourced in other ways or doesn't matter - like information about the Fallen which would be both outdated, suspect and most likely wrong. They operate for too long to allow such obvious leaks and have hundreds of ways to cover them.

The only actually useful information is to know their actual motivation in this all. While it won't allow to predict their current plans it would really help with predicting their larger movements.
 
[X] Come clean to Harry about this, I am not talking to you behind his back

This is about trust. Not resources. We're not negotiating a bribe from the Deceiver. We're trying to have her act in a trustworthy fashion. That means the requirement needs to be open honesty on her part rather than lost lore for us.
 
LightLan said:
IIRC pretty much every shade can teach their host a ritual to summon the Coin to them.
Even through Wards.

I vaguely recall that getting mentioned when Harry offers the Church to take the Coin so he literally can't take it up.
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Dresden did touch the Coin though, Lash wouldn't have that connection.
She'd have a different one, but I'm not sure it's one that could be used to break a Wizard's warding work.
 
Zoolimar said:
Frankly, the only meaningful question to ask is something like "Why did the rebellion start?". Because everything else either could be sourced in other ways or doesn't matter - like information about the Fallen which would be both outdated, suspect and most likely wrong. They operate for too long to allow such obvious leaks and have hundreds of ways to cover them.

The only actually useful information is to know their actual motivation in this all. While it won't allow to predict their current plans it would really help with predicting their larger movements.
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That is a question perched on the very edge of your oath since you would be asking about the interaction between the Fallen and the White God.
 
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