- Location
- Earth
It isn't mentioned in either vote in any way?
Dunno what our QM would choose unless we specify.
We did talk with Mab and Odin alone.
So unless we specify we might walk into that meeting alone as well.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Dunno what our QM would choose unless we specify.
We did talk with Mab and Odin alone.
So unless we specify we might walk into that meeting alone as well.
Well the easiest way to find out quite what he meant is to talk to the man, but from the interlude the fact that something you did set off the apocalypse alarms in Edinburgh probably has something to do with it. The behaviour that got him here was someone opening a gate to some place deep in the nevernever, which almost never happens. Molly suspects he now has questions about
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Any thoughts on volunteering that if the merlin is here for what we think he's here for, mentioning it's the world inside her soul that recently developed as an alternative to volunteering the stuff about who we were meeting and who our target is?
BoredMan
It seems there was some brain damage after all
This doesn't take away from my point at all though. Telling him why we can't trust them serves to help explain our position. The fact that the WC has spies isn't that much of a secret.
They arent Senior Council.
La Fortier isnt dead, and Cristos(whether he's a mole or a useful idiot) isnt a Senior Council member yet. The most senior traitor we canonically know of that at the moment is Peabody, and he's staff.
I dont agree.
Wizards regularly look gift horses in the mouth all the time, and for good reason; too often even true information is given to manipulate you.
Furthermore, the Merlin has no reason to expect that Molly can exercise anything like that degree of information retrieval; Exalts are not a thing they see very often. And as has been established multiple times IC by different characters, knowing that Molly can exercise that sort of information would be deeply alarming to the Council.
For example, the Archive exists.
She is friendly towards the White Council without being allied to them. She is considered important enough that the White Council sent a strike team into Chicago to provide her security after Small Favor.
Noone expects her to feed them masses of information despite having intellectus towards human communications.
And her restrictions are reassuring to a group of people who thrive on secrets.
Molly has no such restrictions.
We specifically chose to speak to Mab alone.
Odin wasnt a scheduled meeting; he initiated, so we didnt get the choice of determining who else would be there.
Something like this? Molly would ask Michael to sit in.
Just to put people at ease.
And 19th November 2006 is a Sunday, so he should be home.
If you guys want to bring Michael in it would be best to vote for it, there are topics Molly can more easily talk without him there so it's not like bringing him has no price, not to mention how much she is willing to lean into naked intimidation (which she has max skill points in) will also be impacted.
Okay.
Editing that into my plan immediately.
EDIT
Molly is Intimidation 4, by the way. High, but not maxed.
Her Empathy and Etiquette are higher at 5.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x]Plan Razzle Dazzle
-[x]Volunteer the existence of your inner world as what they're probably here to investigate and that they are interested in establishing diplomatic relations with the outside world. Mention that Harry should have souvenirs that didn't dissolve into ectoplasm if they find that difficult to believe.
-[x]If you want to soulgaze me you're going to need some kind of mental anchor though
-[x]Offer to share who your target was after the operation is complete if they give you a contact number if they press about the meeting. Your callsign will be Emerald City when you deliver the message.
-[x]Volunteer the existence of your inner world as what they're probably here to investigate and that they are interested in establishing diplomatic relations with the outside world. Mention that Harry should have souvenirs that didn't dissolve into ectoplasm if they find that difficult to believe.
-[x]If you want to soulgaze me you're going to need some kind of mental anchor though
-[x]Offer to share who your target was after the operation is complete if they give you a contact number if they press about the meeting. Your callsign will be Emerald City when you deliver the message.
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-No it doesnt.
He has no reason to expect trust from an 18 year old girl who has never been part of the Council.
He'd certainly want us to tell him, because wizards thrive on secrets, but he doesnt expect it. Nor will he feel compelled to share his own or those of the Council, because wizards thrive on secrets.
-The Council's traitor problem is not a secret to the heaviest external hitters like Odin and Mab, and to people inside the White Council itself. And of course whoever the spies are reporting to.
But the White Council canonically goes to some effort to hide it from outsiders, as we see at the end of Turn Coat.
Someone like Molly, who can arbitarily penetrate your secrets, is deeply scary to wizards.
Uh.
Why would you do this to an organization we have established has a significant spy problem? Right after we decided to try to buy our Hell some time to prepare for the potential appearance of hostiles on their borders by not publicizing its existence?
I mean, even loyal wizards of the Council owe Molly Carpenter no loyalty, and can just as easily trade that information to external actors without actually thinking they are betraying the Council.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
They might be more receptive to us being cagey with our op if we're willing to talk about our hell/inner world, at least give them an answer from the source. Though we should mention the mental anchor thing incase they want to soulgaze us.
Edit: @uju32 I'd be surprised if anyone on the council can find their way there. And it seems like give them something(Our target, or our hell, or that we are an exalted, or something) or have bad diplomatic relations in the future.
Edit: @uju32 I'd be surprised if anyone on the council can find their way there. And it seems like give them something(Our target, or our hell, or that we are an exalted, or something) or have bad diplomatic relations in the future.
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They have actually gone to extreme measures to hide it even from Insiders as far as they can, if the Council looks weak that means it looks less able to protect its members so they might just fall off. If the council looks like it is full of traitors it might be seen as an active threat by wizards looking for security.
BoredMan
It seems there was some brain damage after all
Thats hysterical since that's exactly the case. This setting really is sad for magic humans. When you reach a certain level they try and recruit you(forcefully?) but then they have traitors and spies everywhere so your fucked no matter what you do. Unless you have so much power that they aren't willing to fuck with you of course.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We only have 4 dots of intimidation. We are better at empathy and etiquette. Although really having so many high skills gives us a huge amount of flexibility in how to take this talk. If we fail in one method we can just switch up.
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1) I dont see it. Not unless you are willing to lay everything out in detail.
Every answer we could provide would only raise more questions that we are currently unwilling to answer for our own safety.
And that assumes they believe us in the first place, because humans can lie.
2) They dont have a right to know about sensitive operational matter, nor would they expect to be told.
They would like to know, because wizards are nosey by definition, but they dont expect to be told about someone else's military ops just for asking.
And our Hell is situated in part of our soul; thats sensitive stuff.
I mean, voters here regularly chafe at Charity trying to ask questions about our business, and she's family, and only asks these questions in a house that's warded against surveillance by even Fallen Angels.
Why would we feel more comfortable sharing this stuff with strangers just because they asked?
3) Also, remember that none of our talk with the Merlin is going to be shielded against top tier surveillance.
Our conversation at MacAnally's can be surveilled by serious players.
The Merlin as far as we know cant stop Anduriel spying on his conversations with the Senior Council either; no less a person than Odin needed Mab on-site to shield a conversation at MacAnally's from Anduriel's surveillance in Skin Game.
Odin can shield against it at home, but apparently not abroad in the field.
And the limits of Nemesis ability to gather information remain undefined.
Huh. Fair enough.
Doesnt mean a significant number of wizards, including all the Wardens, dont have their suspicions.
But fair.
It does reinforce my point about how the Merlin, who helped institute those measures, is likely to react......badly to Molly the apparent archdevil going "Yo, I know you got spies leaking this shit all around".
Just one illustration of how unrestricted intelligence gathering can be viewed as an existential threat to a faction.
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The White Council does not force anyone to join, they are just the best place to learn magic as a mortal and to network with other major mortal practitioners, but the only thing they will apply coercive force to the broader magical community is the Laws.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I think we might be able to leverage NWS actually. If we show off knowing the Merlin's greatest shame that plays into the arch devil narrative which also plays into us being able to find traitors in organization.
Just using NWS sort of primes the pump for any further information we might want to share in the future.
Just using NWS sort of primes the pump for any further information we might want to share in the future.
For the traitors it probably best just to get the list, and then with Dresden, and the Blackstaff work on taking them out slowly using the war to cover up their deaths.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It's too late but I will put it up.
[X]Plan Information Control prime the pump
-[X] No, you know there are high placed traitors in the White Council, keep the secret of your plans even if it means you have to stonewall him
--[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of White Council traitors before the meeting
--[X]Use NWS and don't hide that you have that information. If you are going to share big secrets later it best to first establish that you know a secret that he already knows.
[X]Plan Information Control prime the pump
-[X] No, you know there are high placed traitors in the White Council, keep the secret of your plans even if it means you have to stonewall him
--[X] Use the recording of the call with Merlin as a focus for the crown to compile the list of White Council traitors before the meeting
--[X]Use NWS and don't hide that you have that information. If you are going to share big secrets later it best to first establish that you know a secret that he already knows.
Actually, just curious:
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Is it a valid question to ask for the identities of every current White Council member and apprentice, using either a Warden, a Warden's sword or the Merlin's staff as a focus?
This. Nobody wants someone inside who doesnt want to be there, or who cant be trusted.
Thats how you end up with your secrets sold to your enemies.
Plus, being a wizard of the White Council confers significant status and protection in the supernatural world.
Factions and random harassers give you space.
Wardens come to your aid if you are under attack.
Becoming a White Council wizard is a pretty sweet gig if you can swing it.
@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Is it a valid question to ask for the identities of every current White Council member and apprentice, using either a Warden, a Warden's sword or the Merlin's staff as a focus?
^^^
This. Nobody wants someone inside who doesnt want to be there, or who cant be trusted.
Thats how you end up with your secrets sold to your enemies.
Plus, being a wizard of the White Council confers significant status and protection in the supernatural world.
Factions and random harassers give you space.
Wardens come to your aid if you are under attack.
Becoming a White Council wizard is a pretty sweet gig if you can swing it.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
A useful thing to say is that we owe Harry big time. It should at least make Merlin worry less about Harry being subverted by us.
It's certainly a better situation then the usual one where a wizard owes a demon lord a large debt.
It's certainly a better situation then the usual one where a wizard owes a demon lord a large debt.
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Using a Warden yes... and yes that is a scary power to have, as soon as you lay eyes on a member of an institution you can know who all its members are.
As a note you could not do this with say the fey courts since they are less an institution and more a species/state of being
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I don't think that we talk about our hell right now at least not in terms of it being our hell that we are the Empress of. But if asked about what happened we should likely mention the 5 fold court of fate and that the White Council is likely the first organization that they want to send an envoy to as soon as they learn enough earth languages that they don't have to negotiate using pantomimes.
1)They're wizards. You'd be surprised.
Dresden's mother had a reputation for wandering the NeverNever and getting into places even the Fae didnt tread, and she was not the only one; Rashid explicitly tells Dresden there's a community of wizards like that who looked out for her.
2)The Mothers were explicit (in Cold Days) about expecting Dresden to get fit enough to find the Outer Gates on his own within a decade or so. And Rashid found his way there to take up his duties as Gatekeeper.
If those are within the reach of mortal wizards, Im pretty sure our Hell is as well.
Cowl certainly found the uberghouls in the NeverNever somewhere.
And I know that wizards in WoD could find Yomi Wan; Voormas was lurking in Tou Mu's Hell for a while.
An illustration of why the Crown is so fuckscary to talk about, and why we've been told not to do so.
......
Yeah, we're going to want to ask this question.
Being able to recognize White Council members on sight is likely to be useful to Molly.
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