fair enough.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'd prefer everyone involved just being sorta ok with the situation than having to navigate having a rebellion in our soul-world thingy.
[X] Plan: Fivefold Courts of Frozen... Just Sorta Relaxed.
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Difficult Terrain, 2 points remaining
Accessible Terrain, 2 points remaining
Pockets of Safety +2 points, 4 points remaining
Balanced Ecosystem, 4 points remaining
Earthly Fauna, 4 points remaining
Deadly Beasts, +1 point, 5 points remaining
Earthly Flora, 5 points remaining
Deadly Flora, +1 point, 6 points remaining
Human Populace, 6 points remaining
Resident Devils, -1 point, 5 points remaining
Advanced Social structures, 5 points remaining
Archaic Technology, 0 points, 5 points remaining
Advanced Technology, -2 points, 3 points remaining
Loyalty: Loyal, -1 points, 2 points remaining
Dangerously Alien, 2 points remaining
Endless Suffering, -1 point, 1 point remaining
Lord of the Land, -1 point, 0 points remaining
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They aren't rebellious; the prison tribes basically want Molly to prove she's actually all that by coming inside to fight them instead of bowing to her whims by default.
Not quite the same as having a basement full of partisans looking to storm the capitol or something.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Well, if that's the case then I'd be ok with that being in the plan then, because I was thinking 'basement partisans who just really have beef with Molly'. what with this description:
For my peace of mind, can you point me to where it's confirmed that we will be dealing with... not fervent hate and resentment?
I thought we had some go ahead on it from when Yog originally wrote out the concept, but I don't have a quote.
To be clear, my understanding of the idea is that they are similarly invested in their position, but are basically interested in either Molly living up to their standards or dying in the attempt if she tries to enter the prison rather than say staging a coup.
Just to make sure I'm not spouting bullshit:
@Yog and @DragonParadox is that roughly correct and are we actually allowed to do that?
[X] Yzarc
What you are dealing with is people who see a common myth in a different light. Where the inhabitants of most of the Hell are awaiting the Empress to show Herself, certain that they will recognize her when they see her the tribes believe that the Warden must prove herself, that she must be tested as they have been tested. To vastly oversimplify where the inhabitants of the Five Courts believe in the power of observation and revelation the tribes believe that all good things, all true things, are born of trial and struggle.
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- Location
- Australia
I think the resistance movement night actually have the potential to be a good idea - a spirited opposition could help keep us honest and accountable, both in our actions within the Kingdom and those in the outside world - at very least some push back to our ideas, plans and rule might help reveal flaws and improvements we might be able to make in our actions and designs, or at least allow a more accurate weighing of the pros and cons of our decisions. Of course, this very much depends on the exact nature of the resistance - especially whether and to what extent it's peaceful opposition in a quasi-democratic opposition fashion or a violent insurgency or terrorist cell which could bring perpetual violence, sufferimg and instability, potentially to the innocent. I'd guess it'd probably be a mix of both extremes the exact composition in flux over time.
Also, a question @DragonParadox - is there any way to change any aspect of the Kingdom after its founding, for instance increasing its size or scale, or alter an aspect of its environment or gaining control or power over/within through the investment of sufficient power/xp/something else? I'd guess if additional changes are possible, sapients could only be added or increased, not removed both for ethical reasons and such sapient or entities now existing having the capability to resist.
Also, a question @DragonParadox - is there any way to change any aspect of the Kingdom after its founding, for instance increasing its size or scale, or alter an aspect of its environment or gaining control or power over/within through the investment of sufficient power/xp/something else? I'd guess if additional changes are possible, sapients could only be added or increased, not removed both for ethical reasons and such sapient or entities now existing having the capability to resist.
Davian_Veq
Clock Facts!
- Location
- England
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Fivefold Courts of Frozen Fate v. 1.3
Yes, you can, though it is not as easy as just paying XP, Uju came up with an idea that would involve gathering shards from the Wyld to reconnect and expand
- Location
- USA
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- Location
- Dallas Texas
[X] Yzarc
Independent of the particulars of the hell, it's interesting to note that Amoraccius couldn't come inside. We've talked about potential "diplomatic issues" and loopholes before, but I don't think we've touched on the possibility of any explicit arrangements yet.
We're in a very unique not touching you position with the world and the white god right now. That affords us the ability to do things like guess what the side of the angels would like to accomplish but can't without breaking the rules and simply do it, then tell the fallen to pound sand because god doesn't have to pay penalty points for people who don't work for him.
Losing that dynamic would cost team good guys a significant potential advantage, but it's possible we could maintain it and make some unfair deals to bias the game if we're careful.
We need more exact answers to do anything without risking serious consequences for everyone, but really screwing over hell in a way they can't really do anything about would be amazing.
This example probably wouldn't work, but to illustrate the idea I'm thinking something equivalent to giving "basing rights" or an embassy to Heaven for the nominal sake of local mortal souls without the jurisdictional expansion of Hell on the other side. Because they aren't and never were involved here.
Ideally that would mean Heaven would have zero rules tying their hands on how they're allowed to keep Hell from fucking with our inhabitants coupled with an obligation to defend their free will from the Denarians.
Then, to maximize cheating, Heaven brews plots in our territory which we freely and independently choose to allow to interact with the real world. Molly would basically get to exploit dual citizenship + free will rules; the plots are off limits in her Hell until she does something to bring them to Creation proper where the rules apply to the consequences but not the initial conditions.
This particular idea assumes too many convenient conditions, but it's worth exploring what actually viable options might exist.
Just imagine what Uriel could accomplish if he could choose when his plots had to even pretend to be fair.
tldr: Cuban Missile Crisis Divine Edition when?
We're in a very unique not touching you position with the world and the white god right now. That affords us the ability to do things like guess what the side of the angels would like to accomplish but can't without breaking the rules and simply do it, then tell the fallen to pound sand because god doesn't have to pay penalty points for people who don't work for him.
Losing that dynamic would cost team good guys a significant potential advantage, but it's possible we could maintain it and make some unfair deals to bias the game if we're careful.
We need more exact answers to do anything without risking serious consequences for everyone, but really screwing over hell in a way they can't really do anything about would be amazing.
This example probably wouldn't work, but to illustrate the idea I'm thinking something equivalent to giving "basing rights" or an embassy to Heaven for the nominal sake of local mortal souls without the jurisdictional expansion of Hell on the other side. Because they aren't and never were involved here.
Ideally that would mean Heaven would have zero rules tying their hands on how they're allowed to keep Hell from fucking with our inhabitants coupled with an obligation to defend their free will from the Denarians.
Then, to maximize cheating, Heaven brews plots in our territory which we freely and independently choose to allow to interact with the real world. Molly would basically get to exploit dual citizenship + free will rules; the plots are off limits in her Hell until she does something to bring them to Creation proper where the rules apply to the consequences but not the initial conditions.
This particular idea assumes too many convenient conditions, but it's worth exploring what actually viable options might exist.
Just imagine what Uriel could accomplish if he could choose when his plots had to even pretend to be fair.
tldr: Cuban Missile Crisis Divine Edition when?
At the risk of Exalted background overtaking everything, depending on the worldbuilding we are not aware of yet, the situation can differ, by a lot. We don't actually know what White God is, how they relate to Primordials, and what inherent right Primordials have left. Creation has clearly been rebuilt (likely several times), but at least some parts of underlying structure remain, even if in degraded / warped form, such as Ancient Sorcery, which is basically admin console of reality. How we, as a possible heir of said Primordials figure into it is a question (we should probably look Mandate of Heavens at some point).
The idea of having an official embassy is appealing. Possibly not just for Heaven either. Winter and Summer might be allowed in my opinion. And yeah, it would be fun to have angels just being there, in their material "be not afraid" forms.
Fairly sure we are the nukes, and Chicago is Cuba in this analogy.tldr: Cuban Missile Crisis Divine Edition when?
You may be jumping to a conclusion there. I don't think that it's precisely that Amoraccius couldn't come inside, as that it couldn't come inside without impinging on Molly's free will as ordained by God, given the whole Hell is 'Molly', which obviously it refuses to do. There might be a way to game that diplomatically still, but I would assume it brings up the issue of Heaven and Hell's tit-for-tat interference policy.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Fivefold Courts of Frozen Fate v. 1.3
I love the aesthetic of this plan, and have been reading through everything on it to confirm. The resistance movement doesn't seem like much of a negative to me.
I love the aesthetic of this plan, and have been reading through everything on it to confirm. The resistance movement doesn't seem like much of a negative to me.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It would be very interesting to me if the Sword literally couldn't enter our Hell, not because of rules of conduct or etiquette, but as a simple fact of metaphysical existence. If the Sword is barred, then regular Angels are probably similarly affected, and if it extends to Angels then it probably extends to Denarian coins.Independent of the particulars of the hell, it's interesting to note that Amoraccius couldn't come inside. We've talked about potential "diplomatic issues" and loopholes before, but I don't think we've touched on the possibility of any explicit arrangements yet.
We're in a very unique not touching you position with the world and the white god right now. That affords us the ability to do things like guess what the side of the angels would like to accomplish but can't without breaking the rules and simply do it, then tell the fallen to pound sand because god doesn't have to pay penalty points for people who don't work for him.
Losing that dynamic would cost team good guys a significant potential advantage, but it's possible we could maintain it and make some unfair deals to bias the game if we're careful.
We need more exact answers to do anything without risking serious consequences for everyone, but really screwing over hell in a way they can't really do anything about would be amazing.
This example probably wouldn't work, but to illustrate the idea I'm thinking something equivalent to giving "basing rights" or an embassy to Heaven for the nominal sake of local mortal souls without the jurisdictional expansion of Hell on the other side. Because they aren't and never were involved here.
Ideally that would mean Heaven would have zero rules tying their hands on how they're allowed to keep Hell from fucking with our inhabitants coupled with an obligation to defend their free will from the Denarians.
Then, to maximize cheating, Heaven brews plots in our territory which we freely and independently choose to allow to interact with the real world. Molly would basically get to exploit dual citizenship + free will rules; the plots are off limits in her Hell until she does something to bring them to Creation proper where the rules apply to the consequences but not the initial conditions.
This particular idea assumes too many convenient conditions, but it's worth exploring what actually viable options might exist.
Just imagine what Uriel could accomplish if he could choose when his plots had to even pretend to be fair.
tldr: Cuban Missile Crisis Divine Edition when?
If that is the case, then the metaphysics of reality get further called into question. What is reality? What exactly are Angels? Etc, etc, etc.
Heaven is overwhelmingly more powerful in that equation and primarily constrained by its own rules. Being able to physically block them was never the point, only that they're making the jurisdictional distinction. If it was just free will it wouldn't be a complicated explanation for the Sword. Defending that is literally Micheal's job.
Gaming Heaven's rules the right way makes Hell's opinion irrelevant.