Good night guys, see you tomorrow with Hell... and the vote on whether Harry and Michael come along on your first unplanned visit, 
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
By RaW it's not actually in the spirit world exactly. It can be accessed by similar means, but technically it's not even behind the gauntlet; it's behind an equivalent that separates Molly's soul-body from everything else with a rating based on her permanent willpower dots and not local conditions.
My conception has been that if reality is a fenced in property then the Outside is beyond the front gate, the main house is the nevernever, the master bedroom conventional reality, and Molly's hell a shed in the yard.
Getting there is probably a bit more complicated than just waking over from a bordering hell realm.
You don't want our inhabitants to be immortal?
Because that's what it means at the end of the day, an excuse to make them immortal.
The name is nothing but an artefact of it being a hell, it is not representative of the reality of it.
And heavenly is not necessary.
Doesn't help that he was proven wrong, if he was right, we would not even exists today, since we are far past his predictions.
Also, another thing that doesn't help: his solution was *kill the poor* because the guy was an eugenist.
and the vote on whether Harry and Michael come along on your first unplanned visit,
Let's be honest: The only reason I could see not to is so that we can have Charity there too.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Of course that is half the function of VEE. We can choose which hell they are sent to.
And of course default murder is meat would allow for sending souls to our hell.
So do I. There's a reason why Lord of the Land is a mandatory part of my build, as part of the whole Fisher King thing.
But I would rather something that has room to grow and contribute plot threads by existing.
Not something that has been completely assembled from Day 1, amusing as it might be in the abstract.
I know that. You know that.
But they dont know that, do they?
More seriously, that it cant be taken doesnt mean it cant be damaged.
Im expecting territory defense to be an issue in the future.
In this analogy, Molly's world-soul is a zeppelin parked on the roof.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I think that I vote to bring them.Good night guys, see you tomorrow with Hell... and the vote on whether Harry and Michael come along on your first unplanned visit,
Now this one is going to be contentious. I mean, this isn't the visit I had in mind. And first impressions are important. It's a historic moment and all that. I am unsure if I want Harry or Michael to be there.
Frankly it is more reasonable that Molly wasn't sure yet if she COULD take them to this new place that seemed to have set up shop in her soul.
Heavenly is absolutely necessary for Molly Carpenter daughter of a Knight or the Cross. And endless suffering would be to Molly point of view the most vile thing possible, she would forcefully preventing souls from joining with the White God.
I'd quite like to use the Crown to ask how lesser and greater akuma are made. Being able to do so might be very informative if we ever want to redeem any Wan Kuei, and having a Hell might make it easier.
The fact that Po souls that escape from our Hell can become Wan Kuei is an interesting thing. If we take the Kakuri formor charm that awakens a person's Po and collaborate with Lydia to keep their Hun around their body, we could probably set up hard enough trials by which the Po can escape Hell to qualify to become Wan Kuei when they return.
Also worth considering is that the Wan Kuei's fear of and fact that they rot in sunlight and sleep during the day is the result of a mortal's curse, so we can probably use Ancient Sorcery to dispel it on an individual.
Added altogether and this may be the way to make the strongest minions we can. The hardest hit is that we almost certainly can't just let them out. They have to, I think, genuinely escape our Hell to qualify to take the Second Breath
They can just walk out and leave the Hell and die outside it.
VEE does its own thing, soul commerce actually has a whole section in ExWoD for building certain characters. Selling on it is crazy and we shouldn't even get within a hundred miles of trying, but my thought was mostly that you could just as easily flip those rules and play as the buyer if you're already a baby Yama King.
There's plenty to be built out and explored without stage gating ourselves and ending up missing a lot of the grandeur from the start. Especially since competing obligations would mess with that.
Growing isn't a problem, but I want to start somewhere outsized and obviously a throwback to a greater age. This is the rebirth of something terrible and grand; it shouldn't fit, the world should make space.
I'm also not a fan of the build from scraps narrative either; I prefer the primordial grade Making Things emergence.
Harry is a maybe, but an Angelic witness seems like a very interesting perspective and Amoraccius is right there.
There's also the issue of what Molly would do. I don't think she'd leave her dad out of things even if it's too private for anyone else.
Incidentally, do you have an entry sequence in mind for your hell? Does Molly just appear, or does she have some sort of sign/landing point beyond the stuff you wrote about her throne?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
You don't even have to be a Yama king at all. Once you have a use for souls. It all comes down to the laws of supply and demand.
Admittedly I don't actually know those rules.
I was thinking about that, it doesn't seem that these questions are really serious.
Even if we accept the premise that our focus is necessary guided just by population size alone, as Yog already mentioned, we know though the Crown there are tens of thousand advanced civilizations out there:
So at the very least trillions of beings, outweighing Molly's Hell's billions or even tens of billions splendidly.
Second, what can be the reason for this premise? Why the focus of Molly's attention IC or the focus of the quest's narrative OOC must follow this arbitrary metric? The focus is where the interesting things are, and it is in no way determined by the where the most people are.
Depending on how it is designed, Molly's Kingdom would provide additional resources and maybe some plot hooks, the design would need to go out of the way to specifically choose kingdom options and fluff to make it so that it would constantly require lion's share of Molly focus, and there is no reason to do that, what's the point?
Big population by itself is not a necessary focus sink, it would only be that if the Kingdom design explicitly calls for it, by mandating that this big population needs to be constantly managed. No reason to do that when instead it can be designed to be self-sufficient enough, like e.g. loyal and self-governing population of Yog's proposal or, another hypothetical example, an indifferent population that doesn't care and which would just do as it always did, live its own life independent of Molly.
Third, the abstract responsibility-like argument, that is, care about each mortal, so necessary focus where most of them are, is faulty in its reasoning. Equal care doesn't translate to equal focus. The Creation is in upheaval, this age ends, another begins, Odin explicitly told us there will be world-ending struggle, a war for the fate of the world. It's a no-brainer then that the focus of attention should be here, and not at the stable Kingdom. And again, no point in designing unstable Kingdom, we shouldn't create problem for ourselves when we don't need to.
And lastly, the preservation argument, that Molly should not risk herself lest billions of beings in her soul perish with her, also doesn't hold water if examined more thoroughly. She is not the kind of character to withdraw from struggle and leave innocent people in mortal peril, and so only needs to be strong enough and prepared enough, so that the risk of her death is low enough for the aggregate of [low risk of Molly, and all her subjects with her, dying in if she does things] to be smaller than [risk of other people, possibly all inhabitants of Creation, dying if she doesn't do things].
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We can make the place amazing without heavenly, it's just environmental.
As to the other bit, the torment is whatever we like it to be and the end is where we make it.
Every serious hell proposal has cheated endless torment into free immortality with an escape clause that lets people bounce for something else when they want to. We wouldn't really be stopping anyone from "moving on".
False Spring Beckons should already let us do this, so we can probably skip the sorcery research bit.
My interest in soul commerce went a different direction than yours, but I can see it.
You need something to make the terms actually stick.
Technically I could buy barrels of crude oil if I had the money, but without a way to take delivery I couldn't do anything but get fined for storage at the seller's end.
What I was getting at was that Molly might end up in the reverse situation; free oil processing infrastructure, but no cash* to spend on filling it.
* that is, whatever specific power source is needed to provide the blessings used in soul trading instead of what her charms do by their own systems.
It would probably take a couple of uses to hit all aspects of the curse, and being able to countermagic the curse would nice and then be done would be a lot easier than spamming False Springs Beckon, particularly in large numbers of people.
Sorcerous dispelling is probably something we want anyway.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We need to be very careful about how we treat Harry if we bring him into our Hell. If Molly makes eyes at him or appears to be trying too hard to get his attention, we might come back a few months later and find statues of him depicted as the Queen's Consort, or perhaps even her concubine.Good night guys, see you tomorrow with Hell... and the vote on whether Harry and Michael come along on your first unplanned visit,
Huh, on second thought, this sounds hilarious and we should do it just to troll Harry.
If the God Queen visits her realm and brings her parents, would that make them creator deities in the eyes of our Hell's denizens?
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In that vein, we still have a picture of a nameless runecaster valkyirie, and we should use it to learn how valkyries are made. It would probably lower the cost of either wonderforging (arcana making) or inner devils unchained.
I think DragonParadox once said that we'll be able to deal in souls later.
Hmm, standing witness to emergence of a new Primordial. Well, it's a departure from Amoracchius normal duties, but I think they'll enjoy it. And if our world is techincally outside Creation, they might not even be bound by the rule of having to stay inisde the sword.
Honestly? Haven't thought about it that much. First appearance is probably throne room (or at least somewhere within the palace complex, like private bedroom). Probably accompanied with portents and stuff. Definitely something befitting the occasion.
Afterwards I hope / think Molly should be able to quietly materialize in some alleyway and join the crowd walking the streets, just one more magical adept among many, probably an old monster experiencing a new turn of the Wheel. Just so we get a chance to see / experience life "on the ground floor" as it was. And a chance to send someone in to investigate and walk the world for a couple of months.
Deepfake adult movies. Possibly full immersion VRs. Advanced civilization, remember?
On the subject of entertainment - there are probably children cartoons and comics about Empress-to-Come. That's something I want to see, if Fivefold Courts win.
There's probably going to be some sort of "gave birth to the mortal origins of" kind of thing. I doubt it's going to map easily to most real life religions. I definitely tried to make it original and a bit weird. Figures to be respected, however, that's for sure.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I am reminded of the webcomic freefall where robots are all programmed to love humans.
When a human is being accompanied by some robots to a island filled with robots that have never met a human.
Human "Don't worry I'm not going to try and proclaim myself a god or anything"
Robot assistant "Just as well since becoming a god would be taking a step away from being human and as far as they're concerned it would be a step down."
- Location
- Right Where I Am
[X] No The door remains shut for now
Not really feeling like spending 20xp on something before we get Constructive Convergence of Principles. Actually what is the current price for that for us after the couple of discounts we acquired?
Not really feeling like spending 20xp on something before we get Constructive Convergence of Principles. Actually what is the current price for that for us after the couple of discounts we acquired?
He thinks that we're something like him that has lost herself in the role of Molly Carpenter. He might just think, especially with it being treated more as a reveal than a creation, that he woke us up a bit.
Base 10. 0, 1, 10. Everything is base 10. What exactly 10 means might vary, but it's still base 10.
Another fun thing about our hell; we can probably get away with stunting with it instead of sticking purely to our favored hells like we have been for a lot of our special effects so far.
Instead of Kakuri's cold Molly's voice can cut like the iron wind of the courts, or flash with its lightning instead of burn with Lanka's fire.
Not a complete replacement, but it's some fun additional space to explore.
But I don't think you're going to have takers in that until after the hell. It's in many ways even more major to Molly as a character and infernal than the crafting charm, and it's something we've all been planning towards for the whole quest.
We even specifically banked exp explicitly to buy it as soon as possible.
Instead of Kakuri's cold Molly's voice can cut like the iron wind of the courts, or flash with its lightning instead of burn with Lanka's fire.
Not a complete replacement, but it's some fun additional space to explore.
It's down to 15.
But I don't think you're going to have takers in that until after the hell. It's in many ways even more major to Molly as a character and infernal than the crafting charm, and it's something we've all been planning towards for the whole quest.
We even specifically banked exp explicitly to buy it as soon as possible.
That's not what base in this context means at any level of pedantry. The integer value "10" existing in multiple bases and representing different physical quantities isn't relevant.
And with the the kingdom taken as a signature, it even gives us a DC reduction.
Yeah, though the best part about that is the (currently) 2.73 km diameter AoE we get to shape into the kingdom to invoke that through.
Mechanically it's among the best reasonable signatures, but that bit is what makes it the most fun.
We'd basically get to be our own little eye of terror.