Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Indeed. Points where things fall apart in the future:Speaking of plausibility a more general piece of advice for you guys, you can bowl over the average mortal, hell you can bowl over even most strong willed mortals, what you cannot do is talk your way around systems. So if you sell someone a bridge in Brooklyn and they later investigate and discover there is no such thing the jig is up. What you most need is not a story that can stand up to immediate scrutiny, Molly has a particular set of skills to handle that (bullshitting, the skill is bullshitting), what she most needs is a story that corroborates once the mortals in question are no longer in her presence and which can no longer be persuaded that the sky is actually pink.
1) If Rosie moves with us (assuming we move out soon). As I mentioned previously, we are unlikely to have a small rented apartment. A large defended mansion is more likely. Possibly with servants (summoned from our kingdom and/or recruited from Jade dogs).
2) In regards to Rosie's job. If it's a wholly fabricated job (i.e. we are basicalyl paying her a stipend and she doesn't need to do anything - and, for the record, as a proponent of basic income guarantee, in this aprticular situation it might be a terrible idea), and her parents ever ask her about what she does, things start falling apart. If it's actually magic job and we are employing her as an oneiromancer, things are also likely to be dicey.
3) In regards to Rosie's education trust fund or whatever equivalent we go with. That would also need to be explained.
It's also important to know that all this only matter if we want to actually repair Rosie's relationship with at least her mother (her stepfather we'll need to investigate further). IF we simply want to cut them out as bad for Rosie, that's much simpler. But if we are treating this as a practice run for Charity, I think we need to try and make bridges.
Also, Rosie's parents might contact our parents at some point.
Honestly why move out. They only thing worth moving out for would be a several block sized warded palace. We are not getting that anytime soon, even if we had a charm to make the morals work faster. Only way we are getting that early is spending a Mab favor on it.
The reasons to move out could be:
1) To get a fully stoked and equipped alchemical lab, a summoning room, and a crafting room (adjacent to a warehouse with materials and components for crafting, and a server farm for our cyberdevil minions).
2) If we want to do politics and host meetings, we need our own place
3) To be able to shelter Order of Cauldron people
4) To not compromise Carpenters' angelic protection. Honestly, right now Michael's family and house still receiving protection despite us living there is... probably problematic from the standpoint of the Rules.
4.2) To be able to set up our own security, with Ancient Sorcery and purpose-built gods.
5) As a part of growing up
6) If we locate a dragon nest in the vicinity that we can claim and build upon.
Honestly, right now I am not in a hurry at all. A lot of these things can be accomplished by stealthily expanding the basement into a full underground bunker complex. Which we can totally pull off.
Even if we do move out, I am certainly in favor of maintaining close contact with our family, like dropping in on weekends, and generally helping around.
That's an important point to consider. I think my approach satisfies that though; it doesn't claim anything unusual from anywhere that we can't trivially fabricate the evidence. The only external party to validate with is Chicago Synthetics, and any call there is going to go to Clippy.Speaking of plausibility a more general piece of advice for you guys, you can bowl over the average mortal, hell you can bowl over even most strong willed mortals, what you cannot do is talk your way around systems. So if you sell someone a bridge in Brooklyn and they later investigate and discover there is no such thing the jig is up. What you most need is not a story that can stand up to immediate scrutiny, Molly has a particular set of skills to handle that (bullshitting, the skill is bullshitting
This doesn't do anything about the many issues of breaking that particular barrier with them.
We are really hiding it though. Thomas is running the show because Molly can't legally own a company, especially this kind of company, at 17. That's why his loyalty was so important, our name isn't on any paperwork and our agreement with him is an entirely verbal one backed by Molly's personal power.
Here's a quote from the setup chapter directly confirming that this is the case:
Yog's plan immediately points them towards claims that can only really be verified by having Thomas show up and confirm it to their faces.
At which point they're going to ask a number of basic questions that we have no good answers for because we're not doing what we're claiming we are.
We're talking stuff like "why didn't you license this instead of going to the trouble of a start up?" , "where are your patents and legal guarantees of ownership?" , "you can't possibly have done this, what do you even know about material science?", and "why did you go to the trouble of making a private business and then not take any position in it?".
My plan only includes details that are either simple to fake or are directly related to things we're planning to do rather than having already done.
I think its safe to assume that Molly wouldnt arrange a talk with her best friend's mother without letting her friend know beforehand.
And frankly, not before giving her own parents a heads up, just in case.
Because you would expect Mrs Wilson will call Charity to ask; they arent buddies, but they are known to each other.
You're right, I conflated it with part of BronzeTongue's.
My apologies.
My point about talking about moving out remains though.
I dont think it should be. We're not lying, just not being totally frank.
You do have a point about Etiquette being unnecessary though.
Will swap out Etiquette for Subterfuge, just in case.
Part of the reason we havent actually gone for the Lotto yet is that Molly just turned 18 this November.
And prior to that, its illegal to buy lottery tickets under while under 18 years of age, and even receiving them as gifts can give room for weaselling; if we'd done so, there was a distinct possibility that someone would be able to dispute it.
Or attempt to hold control of the minor's assets.
Molly becomes a legal adult this month.
She can wait for the January jackpots, make a plausible reason to be in Ohio, where the law in 2006 does allow lottery winners to hide their identity and stay anonymous.
Buy a ticket in Toledo, Ohio, which is around two or three hours drive from Chicago on the Interstate, and leave a data trail of our presence in the city. Then cash it the next week.
Anonymously.
Yeah. Tell no tales that can be independently disproved.Speaking of plausibility a more general piece of advice for you guys, you can bowl over the average mortal, hell you can bowl over even most strong willed mortals, what you cannot do is talk your way around systems. So if you sell someone a bridge in Brooklyn and they later investigate and discover there is no such thing the jig is up. What you most need is not a story that can stand up to immediate scrutiny, Molly has a particular set of skills to handle that (bullshitting, the skill is bullshitting
Molly receiving an inheritance cant be disproved; wills are public information once they are probated, but gifts are not.
Her having invested wisely cant be disproved either.
The one piece of evidence being shown here is her bank statement, and thats both real and quantifiable.
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jun 10, 2023 at 6:27 PM, finished with 52 posts and 14 votes.
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[X] Plan "full care"
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
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[X]Plan Safety Net
-[X]You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
-[X]If pressed for details, state that you were bequeathed an inheritance when you were about to turn 18 and made some good investments
-[X]All Things Betray + Empathy Excellency + Subterfuge Excellency(if necessary) active: 2m, 1wp
-[X]STUNT: You are met at the door to the Wilson household by their twelve year old, who wordlessly smiles at you, before yelling over his shoulder "Mom! Molly's here!" You smile back at him as you step inside, tousling his hair with your right hand even as you adjust your grip on the file in the other hand. Your eyes meet those of the woman stepping out of the kitchen, her very face and body like an open book to you. "Mrs Wilson. Thank you for seeing me."
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[X] You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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[X] Plan Queen of all we behold
-[X] Come clear about the magic, you can do a lot of stuff, from crafting impossible tech to creating diamonds or gold.
--[X] Demonstrate if necessary, by literally making something in their shed with a box of scraps.
-[X] We do have a job lined up for her at Chicago Synthetics and can also personally help her and finance higher education later.
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Find some time to meet with or call Rosie privately and present this plan to her. The essential idea being to use our resources to make a mundane cover so she can focus on herself and her daughter in whatever form she ultimately wants that to take. Modify based on her input.
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
—[X] Set up evidence of a phone interview and a "second round" in person interview scheduled for the same week the conversation with Rosie's parents takes place in with an initial offer letter that includes the benefits package.
—[X] If necessary imply that someone in the office was sympathetic to her situation and is giving her a chance.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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Yeah no on waiting to January for the lottery win. At the rate we are going that would take IRL about a year to get to.
They arent treating her like shit.
As far as the information we have suggests OOC, they are doing the best they can in a difficult situation. They are very well off, but they dont have fuck you money, and they have other kids and responsibilities.
Not that they are perfect people, but despite Rosie's overt hostility towards her stepdad, he apparently paid her hospital bills, her mother went to the school and twisted arms until they let her graduate with the rest of her class, and she is living at home with her junior siblings despite a history of drug use, and being old enough that they could legally wash their hands of her and kick her out.
And they are paying for her prenatal care.
All appearances suggest they actually care about her wellbeing; they just disagree with her judgement.
The principal issue is this: Rosie is pregnant. And a known addict. The father of the child is a teenager.
She wants to keep the baby, and think she can raise it. Her mother and stepfather dont think that she should, or can handle the responsibility of a baby at 18/19, and that it would be best for her and the baby if she put it up for adoption.
And frankly, in most examples of this sort, they'd be right. And most social workers would likely support them.
A recovering teenage heroin addict who just finished high school is a very poor choice to be a single mother, and should be focused on getting better rather than caring for another human being. Stress is a known risk factor for relapse, and raising a baby is very stressful, let alone doing it as a single mother.
Furthermore, most people cannot afford the financial support or resources to raise a baby as a single parent and still improve themselves Cant go to college. Thats how it works for 99% of cases.
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Now, it so happens that this is the 1% of cases where things are different. Rosie's best friend is an Exalt, who CAN essentially write a blank check for all the financial issues, and who thinks Rosie can handle tne pressure of being a single mother.
Amd Rosie herself is under a magic geas which prevents her from relapsing.
That changes the situation. Her parents dont know that.
Thats the point of this; that we have the capacity and willingness to pay for her health insurance and any medical bills, cover a nanny(or multiple if necessary) and daycare costs, and still have the spare cash to afford to put her through undergrad and a master's.
And that we think she can handle the pressure, and we're putting our money where our mouth is.
We are essentially committing to around a hundred, a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in expenses every year for five to six years until Rosie finishes university, and thats not including the costs of an apartment or living money if she moves out.
Or one-time costs like a car.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It won't be anything close to that expensive, even if we have to pay all of her expenses and those of the baby, not unless we're planning to put her up by herself in an upscale Chicago neighborhood.
Even in a city like Chicago, her total annual expenses should be well under 100k in 2006.
We literally make 3 times that a month. Money is not an issue. Not to mention we should have VEE long before then.
I mean, to enumerate some of the costs we're looking at:
- Fulltime live-out nanny: 40-60k
- Full coverage health insurance for mother and child(pre-Obamacare, pre-existing condition: heroin addiction, including vision and dental coverage): >20k
- Baby diapers: ~900
- Formula: 1800
- Gear and clothes(from walker and car seat to breast pump): ???
- Car insurance(teenage girl): ~4000
- Yearly gas costs: ~3000
- UChicago tuition: <70k
Thats before I get over to shit like phone bills and ancillary walking around money.
Some costs are likely to drop after the first year, while others show up in their place.
But Im serious when I said we're looking at more than 100k yearly in costs.
Being a single parent is expensive.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We do get a certain amount of bulk discounts from our undertown work and I am sure some of our minions is will be willing to babysit. Also once we get our kingdom it all becomes trivial.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm getting between 800 and 3000 dollars per year For Formula alone.
Also, are we counting insurance for the baby as part of Rosie's health insurance, or are the insurers going to be dicks about it and make us pay for baby's insurance separately?
Oops, missed mother and child part.
That said, once the child is born, they may try and make us pay more. How much more, IDK, but Obamacare is not yet in place, and IDK what safeguards there are against such predatory actions on the part of health insurers. Besides Social Exalt, of course, but that's limited to when we're in the room and made aware of the changes. If neither Rosie nor, by extension, Molly are informed of this until something happens or the bill comes due, then we're SoL, unless we want to take them to court.
Also, are we counting insurance for the baby as part of Rosie's health insurance, or are the insurers going to be dicks about it and make us pay for baby's insurance separately?
Oops, missed mother and child part.
That said, once the child is born, they may try and make us pay more. How much more, IDK, but Obamacare is not yet in place, and IDK what safeguards there are against such predatory actions on the part of health insurers. Besides Social Exalt, of course, but that's limited to when we're in the room and made aware of the changes. If neither Rosie nor, by extension, Molly are informed of this until something happens or the bill comes due, then we're SoL, unless we want to take them to court.
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Im not saying we cant afford it; we paid roughly that much to hire a bunch of Einherjar for six hours.
I am pointing out that from the PoV of most people, this is a significant chunk of money to drop every year on someone's welfare.
Im not even talking about the costs of a Volvo or BMW SUV to ferry her around Chicagoland.
That said, none of the Jade Dogs are babysitting.
They dont have the bona fides to do this sort of work if her parents decide to check up on them, and we dont want to draw any unnecessary links from them to her.
We're either hiring from an agency, or looking for a Cauldron member.
This is pre-Obamacare in the US. What do you think?
Expect them to be in the high-risk pool as well, with high-risk prices, because his/her/their(they may be twins or triplets) mother may have used heroin in the very early stages of the pregnancy.
Seriously, even today the average yearly costs for family health insurance seems to be around 20k.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Are there any restrictions on them, say, changing the coverage or costs without informing us, or otherwise screwing us over in a way where we cannot do anything until after the fact, when they can present what has been done as a fait accompli?This is pre-Obamacare in the US. What do you think?
Expect them to be in the high-risk pool as well, with high-risk prices, because his/her/their(they may be twins or triplets) mother may have used heroin in the very early stages of the pregnancy.
Seriously, even today the average yearly costs for family health insurance seems to be around 20k.
No.
Pre-Obamacare healthcare in the US was a horrorshow even by 2023 standards.
There's a reason it was a significant campaign issue in Obama's first election campaign.
I mean, we CAN afford all this.
There's no degree of surprise billing they can throw at Rosie that Molly wont be able to zero out in a month or do
Its just worth remembering what it means to other people; even well-off families can find themselves driven to ruin by a family member's bills.
Medical expenses are still a major factor in two thirds of personal bankruptcies today, and it was apparently worse before Obamacare.
And to be fair, Rosie was an IV heroin user. This really is a high risk pregnancy, and the child(ren) is at elevated risk.
I quote:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
There's no degree of surprise billing they can throw at Rosie that Molly wont be able to zero out in a month or do
Its just worth remembering what it means to other people; even well-off families can find themselves driven to ruin by a family member's bills.
Medical expenses are still a major factor in two thirds of personal bankruptcies today, and it was apparently worse before Obamacare.
And to be fair, Rosie was an IV heroin user. This really is a high risk pregnancy, and the child(ren) is at elevated risk.
I quote:
Source:Opiate abuse said:
Developmental Consequences of Fetal Exposure to Drugs: What We Know and What We Still Must Learn - PMC
Most drugs of abuse easily cross the placenta and can affect fetal brain development. In utero exposures to drugs thus can have long-lasting implications for brain structure and function. These effects on the developing nervous system, before ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Again Molly has resource 4, Molly was making 400k a month. She can literally pay for 4 years off 1 months income. Money is not an issue.
Ultimately the material costs aren't an issue, but I'm not sure the kingdom actually factors into it.
Our world is still sort of a spiritual realm, so eating the food or using the medicine there long term could have the same effect as doing so in the nevernever at large. Using it for housing or as a primary education source would also be inconvenient if the intent is to stay engaged with the mortal world.
Demon tutors and nannies could be a thing, but the primary solution is just having enough cash that it doesn't matter.
Yes. We're talking about the insurance industry, if you told me they were their own distinct vampire court in WoD I'd believe it.
Not only will they charge separately, they'll charge double for being risky and contest claims they know are legitimate in hopes that the sick customer dies before they're legally compelled to pay out. That isn't hyperbole, the big players have been caught doing this multiple times.
I did the math. I know how much it is.
Molly is also taking care of the Jade Dogs, who are likely to keep growing in number, and her own projects.
We have a significant amount of cash inflow, but also a lot of commitments that result in net cash outflow.
The fact that we dont have to worry about routine stuff doesnt mean big ticket items like this are now trivial.
Current tally:
Can we please not link Rosie to Chicago Synthetics?
We dont need the Wilsons hiring a private investigator to come poking around in a well-meaning but misguided attempt to find out more than we are willing to share.
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[X] Plan "full care"
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work to start with, and then whatever best uses her gifts
-[X] We are paying for Rosie's higher education whenever and wherever she wants to have it
-[X] When we move out of our family's house, Rosie is free to move in with us, or we are ready to buy her an apartment
-[X] Empathy and Etiquette excellencies, All Things Betray with willpower
--[X] STUNT: The you that steps out of Black Rider and onto Wilson's porch is not the girl who used to sneak out with Rosie and be caught by her parents. Your looks are much closer to those of Margaret Carver, and were you to enter a boardroom and start a salespitch, no one would find it strange. Everything, from the heels of your shoes to the subtle yet undeniable wealth of your synthetic diamond jewelry is designed to make you look respectable, in a non-threatening way. You are still you, and Rosie's parents will recognize you as such, but you are still someone they will have to take seriously.
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[X]Plan Safety Net
-[X]You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
-[X]If pressed for details, state that you were bequeathed an inheritance when you were about to turn 18 and made some good investments
-[X]All Things Betray + Empathy Excellency + Subterfuge Excellency(if necessary) active: 2m, 1wp
-[X]STUNT: You are met at the door to the Wilson household by their twelve year old, who wordlessly smiles at you, before yelling over his shoulder "Mom! Molly's here!" You smile back at him as you step inside, tousling his hair with your right hand even as you adjust your grip on the file in the other hand. Your eyes meet those of the woman stepping out of the kitchen, her very face and body like an open book to you. "Mrs Wilson. Thank you for seeing me."
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[X] You are just going to pay Rosie's expenses and here's a bank statement to prove you can
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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[X] Plan Queen of all we behold
-[X] Come clear about the magic, you can do a lot of stuff, from crafting impossible tech to creating diamonds or gold.
--[X] Demonstrate if necessary, by literally making something in their shed with a box of scraps.
-[X] We do have a job lined up for her at Chicago Synthetics and can also personally help her and finance higher education later.
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[X] Plan Mushrooms
-[X] Find some time to meet with or call Rosie privately and present this plan to her. The essential idea being to use our resources to make a mundane cover so she can focus on herself and her daughter in whatever form she ultimately wants that to take. Modify based on her input.
-[X] Explain that you and Rosie have a plan to move in together once you are of age, you can help her deal with the baby.
-[X] Rosie has a job lined up at Chicago Synthetics doing... secretarial work you guess.
—[X] Set up evidence of a phone interview and a "second round" in person interview scheduled for the same week the conversation with Rosie's parents takes place in with an initial offer letter that includes the benefits package.
—[X] If necessary imply that someone in the office was sympathetic to her situation and is giving her a chance.
-[X] Have clippy fabricate a benefits package for a secretarial position that includes generous but not implausible compensation that happens to be good for family issues.
-[X] Outline a plan for them that describes how we're planning to make this work in practice
—[X] Molly is moving out when she turns 18, and plans to support herself via her existing experience as a mechanic. Long term seeking education like an apprenticeship as a machinist.
-—[X] If Rosie moves in with her then she'll be able to assist with childcare stuff, financial and otherwise.
—[X] Rosie had a good interview with a local company, Chicago Synthetics, which offers education assistance as a job benefit. If she takes that it'd cover a lot of the medical and long term financial issues.
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Can we please not link Rosie to Chicago Synthetics?
We dont need the Wilsons hiring a private investigator to come poking around in a well-meaning but misguided attempt to find out more than we are willing to share.
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There's really no need to insult the vampire courts like that. They're bad, but not insurance company bad.