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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
That is fair they could have just made it ineligible for BRR, but I think that Hardened Devil Body is extra ineligible because it is a second set of Ox Body and makes the already tanky infernals absurdly tanky. Judging from the fluff of By Rage Recast you are taking from the same pool as your shintai as seen by the fact that you get all the BRR boons in shintai which means that stacking does not work.
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I dont think thats supposed to be how it works.
Still your game, but I really dont think thats how it works. The speed is very much not an issue, and each BRR purchase costs 6xp.
Its not a trivial purchase
Yog said:
Yes, which is why having Extra Limbs in base shintai build and BRR doesn't make sense. You still have same infinite amount of actions, essentially. Same with Swift Stride.

It really seems like a rule abuse to try and double buy shintai powers this way that can't be bought twice normally.
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You are mistaken. We can buy Swift Stride normally multiple times in shintai,.
We can even stack it with Aquatic for even more speed, just limited to underwater. Like I said, Rendered Villain Dispersal already exists, and that allows for essentially combat-time teleplorts underwater and transcontinental range.

As for rule abuse? No.
If we spent all 5x BRR Aspects on Swift Stride at a cost of 30xp and a 32x speed multipliet, we'd still be slower than a Path Sorcerer with Conveyance 3 or a Chronomancer with Chronomancy 3 at a cost of 13xp.

The advantage of this is activating it reflexively.
 
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uju32 said:
Grapple OR strike. Citation:

Its range is line of sight.
It applies as a ranged attack beyond melee range.
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Pardon, I probably should have clarified what I meant. Would using MHM use up our attack action if we used it to grapple or strike? Would we need to continue using our attack action to maintain the grapple? If so, and considering the rather weak stats of the attack itself, wouldn't a better long-range option be just using a gun or something similar?
 
yeah um complaining about overpoweredness is weird when I'm fairly sure there is at least one exalted power somewhere which allows you to attack at lightspeed or retroactive powers as in attack someone in the past for sidereals. Well not time travel so much as causality bullshit.
 
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Yog said:
An important reminder - it has been a day since our last XP spending in story. Not a month. In a steady progression rate, we can afford to not spend right now.
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Thats the problem.

We literally skirmished with the naagloshii this morning. And then we smacked Nemesis in the nose in the evening.
Then there's Emma-O's digesting the lessons of the Will's unsuccessful mission.
Expect things to escalate this month from one of those three.

And we STILL havent seen the Denarians yet, and they are Enemy 2.
We CANT afford to sit on XP.
fictionfan said:
She is following orders right this very second trying to tempt Harry.
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From. Lasciel. Not some organization or the other.
And Lasciel is notorious for not being a team player; a rebel angel among rebel angels, according to either Father Forthill or Michael, IIRC.
 
[X]Plan Speed Kills
-[X]Molly: 14xp
--[X]Rage Recast: Swift Stride: 6xp
--[X]Mind-Hand Manipulation: 8xp
-[X]Lydia: 4xp + 2xp(Molly)
--[X]Flawless Hunters Eye: 3xp
--[X]Righteous Lion Defence: 3xp

I've been convinced, we need utility and sheer speed, especially with things with the Naagloshii steadily escalating, I can see needing to respond rapidly being essential in the near future.
 
uju32 said:
As for rule abuse? No.
If we spent all 5x BRR Aspects on Swift Stride at a cost of 30xp and a 32x speed multipliet, we'd still be slower than a Path Sorcerer with Conveyance 3 or a Chronomancer with Chronomancy 3 at a cost of 13xp.
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Hard wrong even Path magic level 4 gets you at most around 5 miles teleportation, per success, with a minutes passing. You need path 5 to get unlimited teleportation, and even with Path 5 anybody not Molly would have hard time hitting the needed success.
 
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uju32 said:
I dont think thats supposed to be how it works.
Still your game, but I really dont think thats how it works. The speed is very much not an issue, and each BRR purchase costs 6xp.
Its not a trivial purchase

You are mistaken. We can buy Swift Stride normally multiple times in shintai,.
We can even stack it with Aquatic for even more speed, just limited to underwater. Like I said, Rendered Villain Dispersal already exists, and that allows for essentially combat-time teleplorts underwater and transcontinental range.

As for rule abuse? No.
If we spent all 5x BRR Aspects on Swift Stride at a cost of 30xp and a 32x speed multipliet, we'd still be slower than a Path Sorcerer with Conveyance 3 or a Chronomancer with Chronomancy 3 at a cost of 13xp.

The advantage of this is activating it reflexively.
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It's not really a question about the speed, but on the nature of BRR, if it gives you a whole other stacking virtual shintai that is far stronger than just more versatility for the Shintai and elements you can use in human form, which is I think what they were meant for.

*nods off to bed for real*
 
uju32 said:
From. Lasciel. Not some organization or the other.
And Lasciel is notorious for not being a team player; a rebel angel among rebel angels, according to either Father Forthill or Michael, IIRC.
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Even if she is a loose cannon that doesn't make her not a member of the organization when all or most of her actions further the organizations goals.
 
If you want to win a fight in the first round basically always.

Thousandfold typhoon hand, is the charm to get. 2 Extra attacks a the end of the round for 1 essence, force them to eat massive penalties to parry another 2 attacks per round. Basically lets Molly carve thou any boss in a single round.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
I you want to win a fight in the first round basically always.

Thousandfold typhoon hand, is the charm to get. 2 Extra attacks a the end of the round for 1 essence, force them to eat massive penalties to parry another 2 attacks per round. Basically lets Molly carve thou any boss in a single round.
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Or get a few minions. That is a much cheaper way to get extra attacks and scales much further.
 
Bread&Circuses said:
Pardon, I probably should have clarified what I meant. Would using MHM use up our attack action if we used it to grapple or strike? Would we need to continue using our attack action to maintain the grapple? If so, and considering the rather weak stats of the attack itself, wouldn't a better long-range option be just using a gun or something similar?
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1)Would it use up our attack action to use it to grapple or strike? Yes.
2)Would we need to continue using our attack option to maintain the grapple? Probably.
3)Our standard demonsword is STR + 2 Lethal, or 6 Lethal.
MHM damage is current Willpower as bashing damage, which is currently 9 Bashing.
4)Its a line of sight weapon. If you can see it, you can hit it.

Sandstrike Blast's normal attack is Range 60.(Alternate mode is line of sight, but costs 1m per use)
Guns cap at around Range 300 for a rifle.
MHM can hit you from SPACE if Molly can see you.

And unlike Firearms, MHM rolls Melee or Occult, both Key abilities which means you ignore 1s
Firearms is not a Key ability. You can botch.
 
fictionfan said:
Or get a few minions. That is a much cheaper way to get extra attacks and scales much further.
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The best use for minions is to deal with other peoples minions, they sort of die against anything that can threaten Molly, and cannot do enough as anything that is a threat to Molly can just tank mere minion level foes. Unless we get the training charm, and a custom training charm to teach, MM, or Path magic minions are not going to a option for long time.

But for instant on demand minions, splintered gale incarnation signature effect. Spawns essence # of clones, currently 3, of Molly that end when the shintai ends. 9 dice adds, if they can grab a weapon, and the clone can independent learn MM&Path magic, and then use it. Which would be pretty strong, even a temp clone with Fortune path 1, would give us 3 minions that can fire Deathcurses at an opponent per use of shintai, which is arguably worse for an enemy then just another fighter on the field.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Hard wrong even Path magic level 4 gets you at most around 5 miles teleportation, per success, with a minutes passing. You need path 5 to get unlimited teleportation, and even with Path 5 anybody not Molly would have hard time hitting the needed success.
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I dont currently have the time to dig up the books to refute this.
Computer is still down, and Im working off mobile.
But Im reasonably sure at least Sorcerer Paths of Power does not work that way.

So citation needed.
Yog said:
Citation needed
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Literally right there. There is no prohibition against it.
DragonParadox said:
It's not really a question about the speed, but on the nature of BRR, if it gives you a whole other stacking virtual shintai that is far stronger than just more versatility for the Shintai and elements you can use in human form, which is I think what they were meant for.
*nods off to bed for real*
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Good night.
This is a conversation to continue tomorrow, because literally that seems to be how its supposed to work.
And this interpretation would materially weaken us.
 
uju32 said:
I dont currently have the time to dig up the books to refute this.
Computer is still down, and Im working off mobile.
But Im reasonably sure at least Sorcerer Paths of Power does not work that way.

So citation needed.

Literally right there. There is no prohibition against it.

Good night.
This is a conversation to continue tomorrow, because literally that seems to be how its supposed to work.
And this interpretation would materially weaken us.
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Sure, we can talk through this more in the morning.
 
Information Superhighway (••••)
For technology-based magicians, there's an unusual
means of transportation often overlooked by mystics. It's
harder to access than others but can sometimes reach
places Conveyance normally can't. This ritual allows the
caster to travel from any electrical outlet to any other,
by converting the magician into electricity. The range
is limited to 5 miles per success. This travel takes one
minute per 5 miles. However, the archetypical sealed
room Conveyance can't access is usually not sealed off
from electricity: If an outlet exists, then the magician
can get to it
Given that Hardend devil body is the only aspect that is stated to be able to be taken more then once. I would say you cannot stack aspects.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
The best use for minions is to deal with other peoples minions, they sort of die against anything that can threaten Molly, and cannot do enough as anything that is a threat to Molly can just tank mere minion level foes.
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Molly can but many of our enemies can't Infernals are known for being super tanky even among Exalted. The minions don't need to do much damage just force the enemy to make parry actions. For example a bunch of ghouls with iron weapons could likely force parry actions from Mab and the way the old summer lady died should make clear how much soak they have against iron. Most of our enemies have similar weaknesses.
 
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To take another swing at this, I'd like to once more argue that we shouldn't spend more than 10-12 exp here, preferably something much lower than that.

There will always be useful things to buy, but being better doesn't mean we're actually doing poorly right now. Our issues aren't currently unmanageable.

Exp is plentiful, but with the focus on shorter arcs we're less certain to get over the threshold if we spend everything, and we've been closer to 14-15 exp an arc in most cases anyway.

Is the difference in capacity worth hitting another buy point and learning that we've screwed ourselves out of one of the charms we've been all but pining after since the start of the thread for another arc?

Are we going to hit that point and then do this a second time because we have all sorts of charms we want then too for X monster or Y situation?
fictionfan said:
Even if she is a loose cannon that doesn't make her not a member of the organization when all or most of her actions further the organizations goals.
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For that matter she is unquestionably an agent of the Denarians regardless of anything else at this point.

The only point of the charm distinguishing between officers and agents as it does is to be inclusive of people who aren't full members of an organization but who are empowered to work on its behalf or otherwise represent it in a particular matter.

If you curse the Apple's "dodge taxes" project by targeting their accounting firm they don't clean the curse off by changing providers.
 
uju32 said:
1)Would it use up our attack action to use it to grapple or strike? Yes.
2)Would we need to continue using our attack option to maintain the grapple? Probably.
3)Our standard demonsword is STR + 2 Lethal, or 6 Lethal.
MHM damage is current Willpower as bashing damage, which is currently 9 Bashing.
4)Its a line of sight weapon. If you can see it, you can hit it.

Sandstrike Blast's normal attack is Range 60.(Alternate mode is line of sight, but costs 1m per use)
Guns cap at around Range 300 for a rifle.
MHM can hit you from SPACE if Molly can see you.

And unlike Firearms, MHM rolls Melee or Occult, both Key abilities which means you ignore 1s
Firearms is not a Key ability. You can botch.
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While the range does indeed sound fantastic, I'm not sure if it compares all that well to a gun in practice, especially if we use consider Transcendent Anathema. Since MHM does bashing damage, and TA only converts lethal damage to aggravated (unless there was some QM word-of-god that I missed?), we would be doing much less damage with MHM than with a gun.

Guns do a set amount of damage based on the model, with the lowest generally being 4 dice to the higher ones being 8, if I'm recalling correctly. Using 7 xp to buy the Firearms excellency and one dot in the actual ability means that we could roll 10 dice. We would subtract ones as you said, and the range wouldn't be as absolute as MHM, as you pointed out, but the damage would be aggravated meaning most things wouldn't be able to soak it.

MHM would roll 5 dice to attack (since it uses the lower of brawl or occult), and throw 9 dice of damage of bashing.

Weighing these factors, I can't see how just spending the xp on guns isn't the better option for combat? I mean, do we really need light-of-sight for our ranged attacks when we're already pretty fast and can fly?

EDIT: Never mind, I just looked through the old comments and apparently we can use lower of melee or occult. So 18 dice to attack. I'm not sure of the math here for the average amount of success, but I'm still on the side that some potentially lower aggravated damage would be better than a bunch of bashing.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
If you curse the Apple's "dodge taxes" project by targeting their accounting firm they don't clean the curse off by changing providers.
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Man if we want to make real fuck you money that would be the way to do it. Short sell a company and curse them. We can even call it ethical if we curse their "dodge taxes" project or other unethical projects.
 
Bread&Circuses said:
Weighing these factors, I can't see how just spending the xp on guns isn't the better option for combat? I mean, do we really need light-of-sight for our ranged attacks when we can fly and are already pretty fast already?
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We don't have gun training. IDK whether it would be feasible or even really possible for us to acquire gun training. (We're still under 18 IIRC, and this is Illinois not Texas). Lastly, we can't always hare off to chase an enemy that's harassing us with damage or debuffs from range.
 
uju32 said:
Literally right there. There is no prohibition against it.
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This logic is flawed. Hardened Devil Body has " This Aspect may be taken multiple times". No other aspect has anything similar, or prohibition against taking it multiple time. If they could be taken multiple times, there would be no need to indicate that specifically for HDB. It's very clear that it's "everything is forbidden by default, and only those explicitly allowed are allowed".
 
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