Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] Bid them go

Edit:

[X] Let them stay
-[X] On the condition that all save Mab herself make an oath never to speak or otherwise spread knowledge of what they see you do here.
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
 
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You can certainly try to teach Ancient Sorcery to people. Molly is quite certain mortals cannot learn it, fey queens she does not know since she does not have deep lore about how the power of the Courts works.
This is why I'd like to make an offer. It's a potent tool for Mab to have. And we could probably trade some deep lore for it. Maybe a secret of mantle forging?
ON another note, if we do let them stay, then using MiM is basically breaking our promise to mom to be careful with it.
Eating part of an immortal outsider in front of some dozens of party-fey is the opposite of keeping a secret.
That is true... Hmm, would a compromise work?

[X] Let them stay
-[X] On the condition that all save Mab herself make an oath never to speak or otherwise spread knowledge of what they see you do here.


Yeah that is... as broken as that promise can be.
Extraordinary circumstances and all that. We'll make it up to her.
 
[X] Let them stay
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
-[X] Keep our spirit killer (Murder is Meat) a secret. Aka don't use it.

It's theoretically possible to fail the ritual unless we spend a WP for a success.
Unlikely, but possible.
Definitely worth spending a WP on something of such momentous importance.
 
[X] Let them stay
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
-[X] Keep our spirit killer (Murder is Meat) a secret. Aka don't use it.

It's theoretically possible to fail the ritual unless we spend a WP for a success.
Unlikely, but possible.
Definitely worth spending a WP on something of such momentous importance.
Yeah he is right we should use the wp
 
[X] Let them stay
-[X] On the condition that all save Mab herself make an oath never to speak or otherwise spread knowledge of what they see you do here.
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it



I am torn on MiM, and am leaning towards using it. Let's see how this goal, there's probably going to be a separate vote for that.
 
A massive party of younger fae means gossip will spread without action.

Make them swear an oath, and they can't.

[X] Let them stay
-[X] On the condition that all save Mab herself make an oath never to speak or otherwise spread knowledge of what they see you do here.
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
 
-[X] On the condition that all save Mab herself make an oath never to speak or otherwise spread knowledge of what they see you do here.
This feels kinda pointless to me.

The point of letting them stay is to let them spread the story.
If you want to use Murder is Meat, tell them to gtfo.

That is, if we want to use it right in front of Mab at all.

It certainly might give her a certain appreciation of what a true conflict with us would entail.
 
Why not have the oath thing be about spreading the info of what we do to the exorcised shard after the exorcism?

nomming the thing happens after, right?

[X] Bid them go
 
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I want snack time if we can get it, the rep isn't worth the delicious outsider calamari.

At this point we're basically no longer hiding right?

[X] Bid them go
-[X] Activate all relevant excellencies with essence
-[X] Activate ATB
-[X] Activate TTC and IPM with willpower
-[X] [Stunt] Drawing herself up, the glamor seems to sublimate from Molly like ice in a pan.
—[X] Surrounded by Winter's monsters and caught between two of its Queens, something boils out from behind her eyes. Invisible and intangible, but as demanding as the kiss of a branding iron on bare skin for those without the relevance to warrant acknowledgment.
—[X] Reaching out her hand, Molly grasped an implement from thin air as if it was always there. Unlike like so many others before it, this was no mechanical monstrosity - a special difference shown even by the hells to its purpose.
—-[X] At exactly five and one half feet long, it stood an exactly straight bar of steel. Every angle unnaturally perfect from the flattened cap to exactingly sharpened tip. The first tool, and first division of natural chaos into shaped order
—[X] Held just above the floor as she turned, it seemed to almost drag the shadows inwards without touching them, whispering secrets at her feet as they came.
—[X] With a smooth calm that seemed cling like smoke Molly spoke. " I think it would be preferable to clear the room".

Maximum special effects mode activate.

Explanation on the charms:

We have the essence to burn, and I'd we're willing to let them watch us work we're implicitly willing to let them get an eyeful of us. Giving a bit of a show and then sending them off gives us a bit of what we'd get from letting them stay, but preserves the ability to try taking a chunk of nemesis.
 
Those guys don't have non-humans perfectly loyals infomorph minions. There's no technocracy or any similar faction in Dresden Files. That's an unoccupied "ecological niche".
1) Perfect loyalty =/= competence.
Do recall that our cyberdevils originally come from the Wicked City, and that summoning spirits to work did not strike Leinth as special. This is not a new capability in this setting.


2)Cyberdevils are cyberdevils. Not human wageslaves.
They dont appear on a company employee sheet. Their work is not credited.
You would have a hell of a time trying to account for their presence in any sort of tech company.


3) The Throne of Heaven is not empty in this setting.
Yama Kings dont act with impunity here.
Yet, that's still what it says in the book. "Yama Kings don't participate as active and big players in the real world" is just plain wrong.
This is ExWoD/Dresden Files, not KOTE.
Even in canon Kindred of the East, its not free real estate, and Yama Kings had to worry about not just their rival Kings, but pissing off the shen and kueijin. Yama Kings have died doing that, or lost all temporal power.

Here, they also have to consider not just the Fae, but the White God and his faction agents.
They both have a lot of power in Chinese economy and eastern political world is what I am saying, which is refuting your words.
Influence. Contested influence.
And given as this is ExWoD/Dresden Files, even the level of influence here is

There is not an empty seat in Heaven, Yama Kings cannot contest without restraint, and even in the supernatural Yama Kings are by no means the top of the food chain in these parts.
Run into Mab or one of the Dragons.
Molly's training charm allows for manipulation improvement, which is important in corporate world.
For climbing up the corporate ladder inside a company.
It does not actually make you, or the company, any better at innovating Technology. Or running the said company in a modern economic framework.

I repeat: Molly does not have charms for training her minions to be better at running or working for a tech company.
I expect us to outperform them by at least an order of magnitude, easily. With nothing else but our kingdom charm, which we'd be buying anyway.
I seriously doubt this.
I suspect there are likely to be major translation issues between an advanced society of technology and magic that uses manufacturing methods well in advance of real world techniques, and a real world economy.

Their is this new thing called AI capable of doing thing a human can do only it works without pay. Molly can skip about 2 decades ahead and start pumping out AI driven stuff now. We could replace all the worlds call centers for every company with cyberdemons since we don't have to pay them.
You're serious.

You're actually out here seriously saying that large language models like Chat-GPT are going to actually do original work, and that anyone who actually has a graduate education in computer science would believe you.
That 2006-era computer microarchitecture is going to support that sort of shit.

Or that cyberdevils, who for all their loyalty are still cyberdevils that do shit like spook jaywalkers for fun, are going to man human-facing sweatshops and literally no other supernatural faction will have issues with that.
Nevermind Molly actually finding it ethical to use them that way.

===
I dont think this is a productive discussion to continue.
 
The Yama Kings do get to participate in reality, though not as bad as in WoD because this world is less terrible. More persuasion less brute force, though in their dealings with non-humans like the Wan Kuei brute force is a lot more of an option since all of them are escapees from their fate.
 
1) Perfect loyalty =/= competence.
Do recall that our cyberdevils originally come from the Wicked City, and that summoning spirits to work did not strike Leinth as special. This is not a new capability in this setting.


2)Cyberdevils are cyberdevils. Not human wageslaves.
They dont appear on a company employee sheet. Their work is not credited.
You would have a hell of a time trying to account for their presence in any sort of tech company.


3) The Throne of Heaven is not empty in this setting.
Yama Kings dont act with impunity here.

This is ExWoD/Dresden Files, not KOTE.
Even in canon Kindred of the East, its not free real estate, and Yama Kings had to worry about not just their rival Kings, but pissing off the shen and kueijin. Yama Kings have died doing that, or lost all temporal power.

Here, they also have to consider not just the Fae, but the White God and his faction agents.

Influence. Contested influence.
And given as this is ExWoD/Dresden Files, even the level of influence here is

There is not an empty seat in Heaven, Yama Kings cannot contest without restraint, and even in the supernatural Yama Kings are by no means the top of the food chain in these parts.
Run into Mab or one of the Dragons.

For climbing up the corporate ladder inside a company.
It does not actually make you, or the company, any better at innovating Technology. Or running the said company in a modern economic framework.

I repeat: Molly does not have charms for training her minions to be better at running or working for a tech company.

I seriously doubt this.
I suspect there are likely to be major translation issues between an advanced society of technology and magic that uses manufacturing methods well in advance of real world techniques, and a real world economy.


You're serious.

You're actually out here seriously saying that large language models like Chat-GPT are going to actually do original work, and that anyone who actually has a graduate education in computer science would believe you.
That 2006-era computer microarchitecture is going to support that sort of shit.

Or that cyberdevils, who for all their loyalty are still cyberdevils that do shit like spook jaywalkers for fun, are going to man human-facing sweatshops and literally no other supernatural faction will have issues with that.
Nevermind Molly actually finding it ethical to use them that way.

===
I dont think this is a productive discussion to continue.
What I don't get here is why it being tech matters.

Sure it's a flashy industry, but we aren't built for it and would need to divert to make it work.

In terms of resources and influence horning in on the stock market and stuff like that is better. The more passive we can make it the more useful it is, even if the yields would be higher spending actions for transmutation.

When we want to stuff like Influence human society soft power and moving knowledge around will be more effective than trying to make business software or improve computers.
 
2)Cyberdevils are cyberdevils. Not human wageslaves.
They dont appear on a company employee sheet. Their work is not credited.
You would have a hell of a time trying to account for their presence in any sort of tech company.
Not at all. They are automated expert systems. That's all.
I seriously doubt this.
I suspect there are likely to be major translation issues between an advanced society of technology and magic that uses manufacturing methods well in advance of real world techniques, and a real world economy.
While I know a lot about issues with industrial archaeology and legacy technologies and how hard it is to bridge that gap, it shouldn't be much of an issue, really. Tools to make tools to make tools is also a profitable venture.
-[X] Activate all relevant excellencies with essence
We can't use excellencies for Ancient Sorcery. And it's better to preserve essence for potential combat with Nemesis


[X] Let them stay
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Activate ATB with essence
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
 
What I don't get here is why it being tech matters.

Sure it's a flashy industry, but we aren't built for it and would need to divert to make it work.
In terms of resources and influence horning in on the stock market and stuff like that is better. The more passive we can make it the more useful it is, even if the yields would be higher spending actions for transmutation.

When we want to stuff like Influence human society soft power and moving knowledge around will be more effective than trying to make business software or improve computers.
Essentially this. We are a social Exalt. We can do things no mortal can.

If our aim is social or technological change, its always going to be worth way more to Molly to make money fast via the stock market or materials and then invest said money to push any of the thousands or hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs out there that need backing and spend her own time on the things no-one else can.

I can imagine many more ways to spend our time productively than playing notTony Stark.
 
We can't use excellencies for Ancient Sorcery. And it's better to preserve essence for potential combat with Nemesis


[X] Let them stay
-[X] Use WP to guarantee success on the exorcism
-[X] Activate ATB with essence
-[X] Reactivate Hellskry Chakra to see if we notice Nemesis with it
Thought we got a ruling on that so that non-combat applications wouldn't be totally screwed by time constraints. Was that just crafting?

Even if it isn't, we still need TTC for the ritual/setup.

If we let them stay then we can't eat the nemesis chunk if it's an option. Not worth it if we can put on a flashy show first then do the ritual itself privately.
 
Essentially this. We are a social Exalt. We can do things no mortal can.

If our aim is social or technological change, its always going to be worth way more to Molly to make money fast via the stock market or materials and then invest said money to push any of the thousands or hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs out there that need backing and spend her own time on the things no-one else can.

I can imagine many more ways to spend our time productively than playing notTony Stark.
Basically we can be the world's greatest investor. Not because we know anything about tech or finance or even law, but because we are a supernaturally good judge of character.
 
Basically we can be the world's greatest investor. Not because we know anything about tech or finance or even law, but because we are a supernaturally good judge of character.

Also because you can steal absurd amounts of information in a way no one mundane can track and do hilarious amounts of inside trading. The world is only going to get more digitized so it's only going to get easier.
 
Commentary later.

VOTE
[X] Bid them go

[X]BronzeTongue


RATIONALE
The more people see us work up close, the more details get out.
And we cannot guarantee that Winter Fae will not talk with sufficient inducement; after all, Bob got his information about Mab's early days from elder Fae who were there. If they will talk about Mab, they'll talk about us.

And Nemesis is not the only person we have to worry about here.

The Denarians for example, are Enemy 2, and might recognize Ancient Sorcery if its decribed.
The Yomi Kings as well are keenly interested in what we can do as well
The naagloshii is also out there. So is the Black Council. So is the Black Court of vampires, and Drakul himself.

Not to mention that Maeve might take it poorly if there are Fae witnesses to her exorcism.
Nobody enjoys having gawkers during a medical procedure.

I see no benefit and lots of drawbacks to having eyewitnesses.
Send them out.
 
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