Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Im not.
We dont get to decide what other societies value. We dont get to decide what risks they happen to think are acceptable. This is demonstrated with human society; there's entire sections of the US would much rather have higher maternal mortality rates than have sex education in schools or abortion legalization. Who refused to mask in the middle of a lethal pandemic.
We might think its just fine to have Whampires serve us to control their Hunger and that obviously Molly is a moral person to serve who will never abuse that trust. Large sections of their society might entirely reasonably differ in opinion. Especially when we start by killing off a bunch of their family and society members.
And in a society of supernaturals of relatively low fertility, where Whampires regularly live into the hundreds of years, the young aren't a huge section of the population pyramid anyway.
Thomas has the largest White Court family we see in canon, and he's only got around 9 living Raith siblings from a father who was more than two thousand years old.
An average of less than one every two hundred years. Yes his father killed a bunch of his male kids, but not the girls.
Keep that in mind.
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Anyway.
I am willing to agree to Lara's proposal.
I dont see anyway it will hurt in the short to medium term, and ways it will help.
My primary question right now is to figure out what to do about the infiltrator.
My first inclination is to yank them off the ceiling and slam them down on the table, bound in tablecloth.
Then ask some pointed questions under Demonic Primacy of Essence.
Anyone have any objections?
I am willing to agree to Lara's proposal.
I dont see anyway it will hurt in the short to medium term, and ways it will help.
My primary question right now is to figure out what to do about the infiltrator.
My first inclination is to yank them off the ceiling and slam them down on the table, bound in tablecloth.
Then ask some pointed questions under Demonic Primacy of Essence.
Anyone have any objections?
For all those just voting on the Laura situation: Can we at least do something about the spy? Kill it, capture it, invite it to a dance, whatever, but at least don't let it go without acting on this, the spy can be used for our crown, we don't know who is on the other side and if they already know what it saw or if it has to do a report, don't just let it go like that.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I don't think we should let it go, but I'm kinda worried that it might self-terminate if discovered or captured. And from the way Molly perceived it, if that happens it might go out with a blast.
Thats the risk.
If Molly has VLE up, she should be fine; she has BSM and Scar-Writ Saga to fall back on to ramp up her soak.
But between Hellscry Chakra and All Things Betray we should pick up any explosion attempts early.
And with Windborn Stride we could just toss them out a window or into the bathroom, where he/she/it can explode without hurting anyone.
Someone would have to pay Thomas for the damage though.
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I think people are underestimating how big a deal MIS is to beings that think long term. Sure they are going to lose a few people to Molly, and a few people of the next generation, and the next generation. While at the same time Molly's forces are growing without issue. Beings like the Lords of White Court will quickly see they have to take Molly out. Because every year Molly forces grow, while their forces are shrinking. They will know they have to take Molly out soon or be rendered irrelevant later.
No they aren't.
At E3 Molly the Infernal gets to buy a Hell with nationstate-level population.
Millions, tens of millions of people, humans and supernaturals, on tap. And she will get some way to project at least some of them in the real world at need.
By comparison, Mercy in Servitude is a trifle.
Its a way to take away CoDs from other people, and to recruit some special resources, not to grow her own force per se.
And the Lords of the White Court dont deal in direct confrontation anyway.
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- Location
- Canada
The thing is, immortals not only think but also act on a long-term perspective; even if they see the way the wind's blowing, I wouldn't be surprised if they take no action for several months if not years; remember, nobody knows how fast the Exalted can ramp up, even with what they've seen Molly do.
Consider that pretty much everyone we've fought is dead, and that we've also always fought with enough allies of considerable power (Michael, Dresden, the Blackstaff, etc) that it'll be difficult for anyone to tell if we've always been this strong or if we're getting stronger super quickly. And nobody realizes that the Exalted do not hit diminishing returns as the Exalted do not have limits, which is another OCP from everyone's perspective.
No one is expecting currently or will even come to expect the sheer speed of the escalation that Molly has brought to the table. Everybody with power in Dresden Files gained that power with time and experience, barring outliers like the Darkhallow. Those immortals in the White Court who want to snuff Molly out will undoubtedly take a slow approach thinking they have all the time in the world and inevitably get swallowed up by the power creep because they don't realize the best time to stop Molly is today, right now. By the time they act, it'll be too late for them to be relevant on their own (though they could still prove an annoyance, which is why one day they're all gonna die in nuclear hellfire)
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I don't pace faith in a tacked on poorly thought out bit of fluff. And even if we are able to get stuff out of the Hell something that goes against the point of a Hell, that still maxes out a single squad of forces, 20-40 people max. And their is very easy for everybody to deal with the Hell as well, just kill Molly. Frankly if anything getting the Hell makes Molly more of a target not less. As Molly goes from a potenital threat, to Kill Right the Fuck Now.
Again they have to take Molly out or in a century, Molly forces will outnumber their by 100 to 1.
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[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
-[X] Claim members of the Order of Cauldron as yours
-[X] Disable the Watcher, non lethally
--[X]Melee excellency, Windborn stride
-[X] STUNT: "Very well. Me and mine will not attack you and yours, as long as you do the same to those who find themselves under my aegis. It is always better to resolve issues at the negotiation table. " - you say, before adding: "and because we are all such good friends now, a favor", and you are exploding out of your seat, the chair skidding back, and the room bathed in the ethereal glow of your anima, the sword in your hand striking, for once with a flat of its blade, at the hidden watcher, not to kill, but to disable.
-[X] Claim members of the Order of Cauldron as yours
-[X] Disable the Watcher, non lethally
--[X]Melee excellency, Windborn stride
-[X] STUNT: "Very well. Me and mine will not attack you and yours, as long as you do the same to those who find themselves under my aegis. It is always better to resolve issues at the negotiation table. " - you say, before adding: "and because we are all such good friends now, a favor", and you are exploding out of your seat, the chair skidding back, and the room bathed in the ethereal glow of your anima, the sword in your hand striking, for once with a flat of its blade, at the hidden watcher, not to kill, but to disable.
World population. For advanced society up to ~ 5 billion was allowed, because it takes more people to actually run said advanced society.
VOTE
[X]Plan Fisher Queen
-[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
-[X]Attack the Watcher, restraint and disable non lethally
-[X]Run through pockets and clothes for items of interest
-[X]Interrogate; Empathy or Intimidate Excellencies if necessary
-[X]Melee Excellency + VLE + Steelskin: 3m
-[X]STUNT: You look at Lydia for a moment, then meet Lara's eyes again."Seems reasonable. Sure." Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." You explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you look at your captive. Its not a nice smile. "Hello there."
SPENT
3m Essence(Surprise round + 1st combat round)
STATUS
Essence: 8/12
Willpower: 8/9
Viridian Legend Exoskeleton: +4 Soak
All Things Betray: -3 DC to Perception rolls
Hellscry Chakra: See aura
Boiling Sea Mastery: -1 DC to all
Demonic Primacy of Essence:
RATIONALE
Tablecloth as improvised weapon: bullwhip.
Melee Excellency applies.
Dexterity 4 + Melee 5 + Excellency 9 + Stunt 2 = 20 dice.
Boiling Sea Mastery active for -1 DC.
Windborn Stride basic gives her x3 speed.
Plus Flight Aspect.
Attack from surprise means Molly gets a surprise round when she gets to act for free without enemy action.
Then the next combat round everyone rolls Initiative, but Molly has (probably)highest Initiative, and so goes first.
Watcher won't know what hit them.
VLE just in case there's a suicide bomb effect to worry about that we cant stop.
Raising Molly's soak to 8 with Scar Writ Saga and BSM means she'll tank a 20L explosion with moderate damage, and be good by noon. Steelskin adds an additional +2 Soak minimum, just in case, raising Soak to 10 or higher.
[X]Plan Fisher Queen
-[X] Agree, you are going to have to make some kind of formal deals with the local supernatural scene eventually and this one would not ask anything of you that your morals do not forbid anyway
-[X]Attack the Watcher, restraint and disable non lethally
-[X]Run through pockets and clothes for items of interest
-[X]Interrogate; Empathy or Intimidate Excellencies if necessary
-[X]Melee Excellency + VLE + Steelskin: 3m
-[X]STUNT: You look at Lydia for a moment, then meet Lara's eyes again."Seems reasonable. Sure." Underneath the table, you grip the table cloth on the table by one end and raise a finger. "Excuse me for a minute." You explode upwards, the leading edge of the tablecloth scything ahead of you at supersonic speeds as your green-shrouded form lunges at the watcher. The improvised weapon curls around the veiled figure's neck and arms and tightens, a moment before you crash into its back with bone-dislocating force. Then you grapple, twisting in the air to bring the body down to the ground with your knee in their sternum. A smile slides onto your face as you look at your captive. Its not a nice smile. "Hello there."
SPENT
3m Essence(Surprise round + 1st combat round)
STATUS
Essence: 8/12
Willpower: 8/9
Viridian Legend Exoskeleton: +4 Soak
All Things Betray: -3 DC to Perception rolls
Hellscry Chakra: See aura
Boiling Sea Mastery: -1 DC to all
Demonic Primacy of Essence:
RATIONALE
Tablecloth as improvised weapon: bullwhip.
Melee Excellency applies.
Dexterity 4 + Melee 5 + Excellency 9 + Stunt 2 = 20 dice.
Boiling Sea Mastery active for -1 DC.
Windborn Stride basic gives her x3 speed.
Plus Flight Aspect.
Attack from surprise means Molly gets a surprise round when she gets to act for free without enemy action.
Then the next combat round everyone rolls Initiative, but Molly has (probably)highest Initiative, and so goes first.
Watcher won't know what hit them.
VLE just in case there's a suicide bomb effect to worry about that we cant stop.
Raising Molly's soak to 8 with Scar Writ Saga and BSM means she'll tank a 20L explosion with moderate damage, and be good by noon. Steelskin adds an additional +2 Soak minimum, just in case, raising Soak to 10 or higher.
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[X]Plan Fisher Queen
I do not think refusing this deal is a good idea. We basically agree to what we would do anyway, and while I might be missing something here, the alternative seems to be an active war with the White Court, and I very much doubt it would be a better alternative.
Besides, reputation works both ways, and being officially recognized by the White Court as an independent side strong enough to have formal agreements with should go a long way with being taking seriously by other parties around without the need to rip off some heads first.
I do not think refusing this deal is a good idea. We basically agree to what we would do anyway, and while I might be missing something here, the alternative seems to be an active war with the White Court, and I very much doubt it would be a better alternative.
Besides, reputation works both ways, and being officially recognized by the White Court as an independent side strong enough to have formal agreements with should go a long way with being taking seriously by other parties around without the need to rip off some heads first.
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[X]Plan Fisher Queen
Why VLE? I would think that, since this is an ambush attack, Windborn Stride for 10X speed boost would be more important.
Also, we definitely should claim Order of Cauldron as ours. They could use protection.
Not going to charge for it? Moral considerations aside she benefits more than we do here. Her own argument is based on the idea we'd successfully murder important members of her court, and even if it was intended as an ego stroke it's still the position she's taken.
This is also the sort of thing that she'll turn around and profit from in terms of maintaining her position.
Might as well try to get full value for it.
To be fair? Summer Lady Lily met us on our first day, Mab met us within the first month of our activity and scheduled a formal meeting, and has had malks keeping tabs on us.
And Odin has similarly extended an invite via Gard.
The immortals who know what's what are on the ball here.
Even if they dont quite understand how hard a Solaroid can escalate, they are trying.
WoG is that it will have mechanical implications
Molly, right now, is a harder target than Lara Raith is. Certainly more than Dresden. The mobility advantage of Flight + Windborn Stride makes her prohibitively difficult to pin down. If she wasn't linked to Chicago, she'd buy the Black Mirror charm at her next XP update to hide her aura and transform her looks and you'd never find her until she was good and ready.
IIRC, there's at least some math out there suggesting that you need at least a hundred million to maintain an advanced technological society. Thats my population floor, because IIRC that was also roughly the estimated human population of Autochtonia in Ex2. And somewhere around the population of the Jadeborn.
I dont intend to go above five hundred million though. Worldwide.
Coincidentally, the Blessed Isle canonically had around a hundred million people on it in the Second Age of Exalted 2E.
Its on the roof ceiling above Lara inside a cafe.
Dont need the active version of Windborn Stride to reach it in one combat turn; Molly's base speed is around 33 yards/second.
VLE because @Goldfish has raised an, IMO, reasonable concern about the Watcher potentially having some sort of magic suicide charge and going kablooey in our face due to how unstable it looked to us.
Doubling our soak means that Molly has an additional margin of error in the event shit goes bad.
With Soak(Stamina 3+ Ebon Scales 1 + VLE 4 =) 8, and Scar Writ Sage and BSM reducing the difficulty to soak to DC4, she should be able to tank a 20L explosion at point blank range(average 10 successes) with only moderate damage.
The important part is to account not only for the Watcher, but for Lara too, who should have superhuman reaction times. We are essentially initiating hostilities unprompted in her presence. It's possible that she'll react negatively to said hostility. Thus, we need the 10X haste.
Also, why not use our blade as a weapon? The flat of sword's blade is always there to whack people with.
- Location
- Canada
What about using Steel Skin? Does that stack with VLE? If we got 2 successes that would not only increase Stamina to 5 but also add 5 from VLE, right?
Or does VLE only work off of the base Attribute Rating?
Not especially.
Nickel and dime-ing her and squeezing the last bit of value out of everything seems a little unnecessary when they did give us the warning on the Outsider threat that gave us that break with Winter. Intentional or not.
Furthermore, the White Court dont have anything that Molly is aware that she might want.
Money? She can make. Artifacts? She can make.
People access? Nobody Molly currently wants to talk to, or that I can think of that she wants to talk to.
Lord Raith's library is worth getting access to, but we dont currently know it exists IC.
There's stuff we can actually sell her in the future, like the identities of people who have dealings with Outsiders in her Court,
The relationship is worth more than maximizing it right now.
I asked permission for a reason.
Its because Lara is on the other side of the table that I am defaulting to something that she shouldn't see as a threat to herself (tablecloth) instead of drawing our sword or shield to bash the target over the head.
The hostile appears to be mortal to Molly's eyes, so we shouldn't need the sword to deal incapacitating bashing damage.
Empty cafe. No-one nearby besides the four of us at the meeting.
Impact of explosion diminishes with distance from its epicenter.
And we asked the cyberdevils to get into the surveillance cameras in the area the night before.
Besides, you cant get enough explosive to knock down a skyscraper into a human portable package without using nukes.
M20 rules are 12 dice for a frag grenade, 8-15 dice for an IED, and 10-15 dice for a suicide bomb.
And its DC6 to dodge an explosion of that size.
Molly will walk away from one with 8 soak.
Yes it would stack. Adds an average of 2-3 soak extra.
Im not sure if we should bother? Managed response so as not to alarm Lara Raith overmuch.
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