Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
1) How precisely is Lara Raith supposed to prevent us having a meeting with Mab?
We are supposed to summon Mab when we are ready. No active magic involved AFAIK, just call.
Short of physical imprisonment, Im not actually seeing the issue.
And there's 15 hours between 9AM and 12 midnight.
2)We dont actually know what she wants.
Nor are we under any obligation to agree to any proposals during a meeting, remember?
3)I assure you that Lara Raith, and any other sane Whampire, has zero interest in being considered to have been responsible for interrupting a meeting between Mab and <Insert Random Name Here>.
She is willing to probe the Faerie Courts, but nowhere so blatantly.
That's just asking for trouble from a greater power, and her White Court rivals would happily disavow her and throw her to the wolves if she was that crazy.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not saying that she can actually prevent us from meeting Mab, but rather that she thinks she can. Even trying and failing can still make shit complicated for us.
I also don't think she's above involving the muggles to inconvenience us, purely through coincidence, if she knows where we'll be at a specific time.
Agreeing to meet with her is setting Lara up to be an enemy purely through the actions we'll need to take after she plays her cards, whatever they may be. Or we can just put the meeting off for a day and eliminate that possibility.
The nightmare scenario is that Lord Raith bent the knee to us and is under the effects of Mercy in Servitude right now. As long as he is genuinely acknowledging us as a higher power, and follows our will (for example by helping Thomas to distribute the diamonds, or arranging Isabella's school life, or a thousand other things he might do covertly), MiS is automatic and we don't get to know who does or does not fall under it. And we know that canonically he's not above making deals with nefarious forces in order to get power boosts (see his magic immunity).
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Agree to meet with Lara before meeting with Mab
Honestly, I'm curious. Reasonable worst case, a fight starts and causes a massive diplomatic incident. Doesn't seem terribly likely. I don't see this getting us killed.
Honestly, I'm curious. Reasonable worst case, a fight starts and causes a massive diplomatic incident. Doesn't seem terribly likely. I don't see this getting us killed.
Oooh, I had never considered that, I suppose that would get around his curse wouldn't it?
I suppose he would be desperate enough to do it and Molly doesn't necessarily need to know about someone swearing to her service.
The question would be how would he learn of this?
We have to accept them, so people can't just dip into our service like that.
We don't have to personally accept them, though. Molly set up rules for those who wish to partake of MiS, and told them to Isabela. If Lord Raith follows them, it should work. There's no control on our part. As long as someone is following our will, we need not even be aware of their existence. @DragonParadox am I right in the interpretation of MiS?
Through elder Skavis most likely. There are probably at least some factions in White Court that would prefer him to Lara as actual ruler, or would want to maneuver against Lara using him at least.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well yes, but we can revoke our protection at any time.
MIS is not something you can game you either serve Molly or you don't. Doublethink will not work to activate it, and the terms of service are Molly's to dictate, and change at will.
Why would this be bad for us?
1) Lara Raith is too canny to try using humans as catspaws.
Because she knows that it will get out, and will turn us into an enemy, and risks making enemies of others as well.
At the moment, we've not been in public conflict, and have been known to associate with some White Court vampires, and we're publicly in business with her brother.
I cant see why she'd risk it.
Not to mention that it will inevitably reach Mab's ears, and whether or not she currently cares about the consequences of fucking with us, she definitely cares about fucking with Mab.
No-one who has a speck of sense doesn't.
2)We are a known associate of Harry Dresden, and dude has a reputation for...intemperance.
She has to suspect that in the event of anything happening, we'll consult him.
And Dresden is currently Warden regional commander for the eastern US.
3)If AU.Lara is supposed to be irrational enough to attempt to fuck with our meeting with Mab if we meet her first?
Refusing to meet her until afterwards won't actually stop her attempting to fuck with the meeting.
4)Let me enumerate what I believe are the known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.
What Lara Definitely Knows
- Molly's juvenile criminal record and school records
- Feels like an archdevil according to her assistant
- Possession of a good enough information network to know when Kattrin's Mercedes was impounded, and came up for auction
- The mojo to dominate or exorcise a spirit-haunted Mercedes CLS
- The juice to be worth a personal formal meeting with Mab herself in Chicago
- In business with Thomas, moving high six to low seven figures worth of diamonds
- On good terms with Dresden, and a Knight, who happens to be her father
- Lives in the home of a serving Knight of the Cross, with all its implications about her relationship with his patrons
- Still goes to church
- Has claimed territory and minions in Undertown, including humans, ghouls and outcast Whampires
- Is currently doing construction work underground
- Association/alliance with the daughter of an old Celtic death god and psychopomp
What Lara Probably Knows
- Molly's kidnapping and retrieval from Arctis Tor
- Involvement in resolving the Red Room Murders
- Involvement in resolving the Recluce Murders
- Involvement in the Cleveland affair; if the Red Court are tracking Michael's truck, the Whites almost certainly are
- The mojo and resources to hire a short platoon of Einherjar, including Valkyries
- Involvement in killing a greater akuma of Yomi Wan
- Association with a group of minor human talents
- Isabella's allegiance
- Molly's shintai war form's effect on the local magic sensitives; we've used it twice in Chicago, and both times the activation has been noted as significant
What Lara May Not Know
- The details of our meeting with elder Skavis Leinth in Greene's house
- That we know the details of the White Court influence campaign on US politicians
- The hearth-god currently guarding Helen Beckitt's home, and our involvement in raising it
- Our having met at least one Senior Council member
- That we personally killed both Kattrin Sigfridsdottir and The Will of Kakuri, and drove Iku-Turso back into prison
- That we've met the Library's agents
- The terms or purpose of our scheduled meeting with Mab
Look at the first two, and tell me that you think Lara is going to look at what she knows, consider what she might not know, then decide that she can prevent a diplomatic meeting with Mab.
In Chicago, with its heavy Fae presence.
Especially when Molly can simply reschedule the meeting if unavoidable circumstances show up.
Like another supernatural Power deliberately interfering in the meeting directly or via proxies.
And just apologize.This wasn't an agreement with a forfeit.
Lara canonically outlived enough all her enemies and rivals thus far by being smart. This would not be smart.
She would be pulling aggro from at least Molly and Mab, and complicating her relationship with several other factions.
If the Lara in this AU is supposed to be so stupid as to pull aggro from Mab in order to prevent a routine diplomatic meeting like Mab does dozens of times a year?
She'd be too stupid to live.
EDIT
As a curiosity, the Chicago Bean was commissioned in March 2006.
Cloud Gate - Wikipedia
In the Dresdenfiles, it was commissioned through proxies by the Winter Court, with assistance/collusion of Marcone, and used as a secret stockpile of weapons.
Lord Raith killed Harry's mother, attempted to kill Harry, Thomas, and Murphy, and was responsible for killing a bunch of women as well in recent memory in an attempt to run a potential business rival out of the market.
He did business with Outsiders.
I cant see any situation under which he'd be willing to bend the knee, or Molly be willing to take him into service.
???
Elder Skavis Leinth is old, but he's a troubleshooter and hitman. He isn't White Court nobility, and has no say in their ruling structure. If he was a major player, a punk like Madrigal Raith would not be able to give him orders.
And as evidenced with the three Whampires in current service, we do have to accept them.
Unless we explicitly set up something that stood in our place.
Besides, MiS would not free him from the effects of Maggie LeFay's death curse.
Thats an applied effect, not something intrinsic to being a Whampire.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Seems more redeemable then Emma-O. Although if we do take him into service then I am going to insist that we get some of the more binding charms.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Well reasoned, as usual, but the timing is simply too suspect, IMO, and Lara's apparent urgency to meet with us before we meet with Mab is raising major red flags for me.1) Lara Raith is too canny to try using humans as catspaws.
Because she knows that it will get out, and will turn us into an enemy, and risks making enemies of others as well.
At the moment, we've not been in public conflict, and have been known to associate with some White Court vampires, and we're publicly in business with her brother.
I cant see why she'd risk it.
Not to mention that it will inevitably reach Mab's ears, and whether or not she currently cares about the consequences of fucking with us, she definitely cares about fucking with Mab.
No-one who has a speck of sense doesn't.
2)We are a known associate of Harry Dresden, and dude has a reputation for...intemperance.
She has to suspect that in the event of anything happening, we'll consult him.
And Dresden is currently Warden regional commander for the eastern US.
3)If AU.Lara is supposed to be irrational enough to attempt to fuck with our meeting with Mab if we meet her first?
Refusing to meet her until afterwards won't actually stop her attempting to fuck with the meeting.
4)Let me enumerate what I believe are the known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.
What Lara Definitely Knows
- Molly's juvenile criminal record and school records
- Feels like an archdevil according to her assistant
- Possession of a good enough information network to know when Kattrin's Mercedes was impounded, and came up for auction
- The mojo to dominate or exorcise a spirit-haunted Mercedes CLS
- The juice to be worth a personal formal meeting with Mab herself in Chicago
- In business with Thomas, moving high six to low seven figures worth of diamonds
- On good terms with Dresden, and a Knight, who happens to be her father
- Lives in the home of a serving Knight of the Cross, with all its implications about her relationship with his patrons
- Still goes to church
- Has claimed territory and minions in Undertown, including humans, ghouls and outcast Whampires
- Is currently doing construction work underground
- Association/alliance with the daughter of an old Celtic death god and psychopomp
What Lara Probably Knows
- Molly's kidnapping and retrieval from Arctis Tor
- Involvement in resolving the Red Room Murders
- Involvement in resolving the Recluce Murders
- Involvement in the Cleveland affair; if the Red Court are tracking Michael's truck, the Whites almost certainly are
- The mojo and resources to hire a short platoon of Einherjar, including Valkyries
- Involvement in killing a greater akuma of Yomi Wan
- Association with a group of minor human talents
- Isabella's allegiance
- Molly's shintai war form's effect on the local magic sensitives; we've used it twice in Chicago, and both times the activation has been noted as significant
What Lara May Not Know
- The details of our meeting with elder Skavis Leinth in Greene's house
- That we know the details of the White Court influence campaign on US politicians
- The hearth-god currently guarding Helen Beckitt's home, and our involvement in raising it
- Our having met at least one Senior Council member
- That we personally killed both Kattrin Sigfridsdottir and The Will of Kakuri, and drove Iku-Turso back into prison
- That we've met the Library's agents
- The terms or purpose of our scheduled meeting with Mab
Look at the first two, and tell me that you think Lara is going to look at what she knows, consider what she might not know, then decide that she can prevent a diplomatic meeting with Mab.
In Chicago, with its heavy Fae presence.
Especially when Molly can simply reschedule the meeting if unavoidable circumstances show up.
Like another supernatural Power deliberately interfering in the meeting directly or via proxies.
And just apologize.This wasn't an agreement with a forfeit.
Lara canonically outlived enough all her enemies and rivals thus far by being smart. This would not be smart.
She would be pulling aggro from at least Molly and Mab, and complicating her relationship with several other factions.
If the Lara in this AU is supposed to be so stupid as to pull aggro from Mab in order to prevent a routine diplomatic meeting like Mab does dozens of times a year?
She'd be too stupid to live.
EDIT
As a curiosity, the Chicago Bean was commissioned in March 2006.
Cloud Gate - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In the Dresdenfiles, it was commissioned through proxies by the Winter Court, with assistance/collusion of Marcone, and used as a secret stockpile of weapons.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Agree to meet with Lara before meeting with Mab
We haven't yet reached White Night, during which Lara orchestrated the mass murder of a lot of the minor practitioners in Chicago, but she's still been leading the White Court for a while now and has demonstrated no desire to not rape and kill all those she feeds on. Traumatic past or not, she's got a long way to go before I'd feel as comfortable with her as I do with Thomas, but we might as well give her the opportunity to make her case. If she's willing to be better, let's help her. If not, well, things are gonna get messy.
We haven't yet reached White Night, during which Lara orchestrated the mass murder of a lot of the minor practitioners in Chicago, but she's still been leading the White Court for a while now and has demonstrated no desire to not rape and kill all those she feeds on. Traumatic past or not, she's got a long way to go before I'd feel as comfortable with her as I do with Thomas, but we might as well give her the opportunity to make her case. If she's willing to be better, let's help her. If not, well, things are gonna get messy.
Emma-O at least can be claimed to be under some sort of mental illness after splitting himself in two.
And in a coldly practical calculation, redeeming him improves the lives of his underlings and Hell inmates, because there's no easy replacement for him.
Lord Raith deliberately trafficked with Outsiders.
That's where his immunity to magic came from. The people being murdered in Blood Rites was with a ritual that summoned a Walker. And he was doing all this bullshit just to undercut a former employee who went off to open a new porn studio.
Critically, we dont need him alive to save other people's lives; Lara Raith already a replacement, and one that's probably better for the people around her.
If he genuinely repented, I would consider it if we had somewhere to stash him.
But he isn't going to.
Any more than Nicodemus would.
The urgency is raising red flags for me too.
Which is why my first suspicion was Imposter.
But we cant actually figure out what it is without meeting her face to face; we get information best when talking to people.
Thing is, there's any of several reasons why Lara might be anxious
- The naagloshii could be active
- The coup attempt by Skavis and Malvora may be more advanced now than in canon
- Nemesis could be attempting an
- They could be having to deal with Denarians
We won't figure it out without looking. And we can hold multiple meetings in a day; the logistics works out.
This is factually incorrect.
- Location
- Canada
This is factually incorrect.
Harry deduced the truth and Lara not only doesn't fight him on it, but she also ended up giving reparations as a tacit admittance of guilt (even if on the surface, others might think she's only doing so because members of her Court committed the crime, Dresden and we know that she was the ultimate puppeteer).
Hello Infernal Exalted right here, killing the Yama Kings and taking their stuff is literally one of their core concepts.
Literally in your own quote:
The person who was doing most of this plan, the crossdresser who went by Priscilla, was Duke Skavis' heir.
The one that Mouse killed outside the motel.
Harry made an allegation and she didn't actually deny it. Thats not the same thing as admitting it.
In her world, taking credit for successful byzantine scheming is pretty much the done thing.
See Madrigal Raith and Vittorio Malvora taking credit for "Priscilla's" Skavis kills when he didn't show up.
Lara Raith is a self-described monster. Make no mistake about it.
She's a Whampire raised in an abusive household. In her centuries of life, she's definitely done a whole bunch of reprehensible things, both personally and under the domination of her father.
But as far as I recall, there's insufficient evidence that she instigated the mass murder plan, even though she turned it to her own benefit and that of her House.
Its certainly opposed to her general aim to avoid war with the White Council.
EDIT
Also, recalling that Lara Raith is True Venator.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
@uju32, the reason I don't want to agree to the meeting has nothing to do with potential danger, and everything to do with the logic outlined in my vote. It makes us look weak. A queen does not allow others to dictate the terms. If she responds to our refusal by actually offering something to make it worth restructuring our plans last-minute for, than fine, but as-is, this is not how a queen acts. We are not her lackey.