Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[X] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

Erebeal said:

There just isn't really any reason to think that Yes would meaningfully help us with the MoI.

Firstly, whatever benefit we get from it won't materialise until far after the summit, so it doesn't help the concerns right now, has a lot of time to be disrupted by other things we do, and will probably be forgotten about by the time we actually get to it due to how much irl time will pass. We have no way of leveraging it now.

Secondly, it's just such a marginal effect. "The MoI has an ideological liking for imperial institutions getting cred over the nobility" and so they'd like this a little more is hardly going to be a big impact. It's not like we're giving them anything significant here. It has no relationship to any concerns about our judgement over foreign influence. Do you really think that if we've done anything they actually dislike that us doing this would shift their opinions meaningfully at all?

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I don't buy this at all. Firstly, I highly doubt that yrsillar is just straight-up lying to us in the mechanics text. That's deeply unlikely.

But also, putting something rare, dangerous, and important under direct Imperial control is, in fact, gonna matter a lot to the MoI because it shows that we respect the Empire and its institutions, especially in regards to protecting from, and dealing with, unusual and dangerous things. That very much seems like more than a token gesture and one that the MoI will find relevant and meaningful. It shows that we are, in at least some areas, still on the same side as them, and that's not to be underestimated.

Like, some of the other arguments for voting 'No' have been fine, but this is basically just saying that the QM is lying and a 'Yes' won't really provide the benefits it says it will which is, uh, not correct.

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

I don't buy this at all. Firstly, I highly doubt that yrsillar is just straight-up lying to us in the mechanics text. That's deeply unlikely.

But also, putting something rare, dangerous, and important under direct Imperial control is, in fact, gonna matter a lot to the MoI because it shows that we respect the Empire and its institutions, especially in regards to protecting from, and dealing with, unusual and dangerous things. That very much seems like more than a token gesture and one that the MoI will find relevant and meaningful. It shows that we are, in at least some areas, still on the same side as them, and that's not to be underestimated.

Like, some of the other arguments for voting 'No' have been fine, but this is basically just saying that the QM is lying and a 'Yes' won't really provide the benefits it says it will which is, uh, not correct.

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He's not lying. They "like" it more.

It's just not clear that this liking is particularly meaningful. Indeed, the text of the story largely all goes against that as they explicitly note that it's far down the line. Everyone's panicking about the immediate concerns and it just doesn't help us there.

Erebeal said:

He's not lying. They "like" it more.

It's just not clear that this liking is particularly meaningful. Indeed, the text of the story largely all goes against that as they explicitly note that it's far down the line. Everyone's panicking about the immediate concerns and it just doesn't help us there.

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I mean, by that logic the Meng might not like a 'No' vote enough to be relevant either, but I don't think the mechanics listing of what the votes mean contains irrelevant text.

[X] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

"Locals" will care about anything they find and elapsed time more than people who'll throw this on the pile. As long as our locals are decently competent we'd be able to take their information or work closer to get exactly what they want, do additional investigation, or respond to danger faster.

It makes sense that full rewards have less bonus to rolls for the local branch. In my head the expert lab has a roll to see if they do shoddy work because the request was from BFE and there's a follow-up action needed if we go local because they have less experience and procedures.

I also just value the Meng and their opinion a lot more than the Imperials. Ling Qi has very much staked her claim and a surprising amount of identity on her own unique version of Weilu identity and all sorts of elements that are "foreign" to "the way things should be."

So I think the ties and goodwill of the Meng are just more thematically and narratively relevant, besides and on top of the practical concerns.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

I mean, by that logic the Meng might not like it enough to be relevant either, but I don't think the mechanics listing of what the votes mean contains irrelevant text.

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I'm not sure it's a big deal for the Meng either. But it at least has the merit of being vaguely relevant and something we can bring up as an opportunity when we're talking with them.

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)
Biggest priority is making sure the research is safe when researching stuff like this. If the safety rolls go wrong this could blow up in our faces and the consequences will be drastic. The Ministry being happy is good given everything we will be doing, but that's just a bonus.

Erebeal said:

There just isn't really any reason to think that Yes would meaningfully help us with the MoI.

Firstly, whatever benefit we get from it won't materialise until far after the summit, so it doesn't help the concerns right now, has a lot of time to be disrupted by other things we do, and will probably be forgotten about by the time we actually get to it due to how much irl time will pass. We have no way of leveraging it now.

Secondly, it's just such a marginal effect. "The MoI has an ideological liking for imperial institutions getting cred over the nobility" and so they'd like this a little more is hardly going to be a big impact. It's not like we're giving them anything significant here. It has no relationship to any concerns about our judgement over foreign influence. Do you really think that if we've done anything they actually dislike that us doing this would shift their opinions meaningfully at all?

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It's relevant enough to get a mention. And most of what we've done will annoy the MoI, we need to have something to balance that out. Even if it's a small adjustment to their attitude, we don't have any assurance that we will get actions that give a larger Mol reputation boost in the future.

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

Safety first. I would like to make sure that we aren't doing the equivalent of using asbestos for make-up.

[x] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

[ ] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

Best case scenario: Success gives Meng Reformer faction a boost in influence and having material results sooner means we can flip those results into products and political advantage sooner. Additionally, success raises the profile of the local facility and enables more projects and thus better quality projects.

Worse case scenario: Containment/experimental breach, trashing Meng Reformer political standings, proving to the Ministry that we're reckless and irresponsible.

Complications: We have an internal Meng faction mad enough at us to spoke our wheels. Also the Nomads have an interest in Starstone materials and may wish to raid for it.


[ ] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

Best case scenario: We get the goods, and its possible that later secondary research steps can be carried out here safely.

Worst case scenario: Xiangmen has more levels of politics, by the time news gets to us, the spin may be largely out of our control.

Complications: Long transit, some risks of material getting 'misplaced' though that'd have the MoI strongly invested in fucking up the culprit.

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

Leaning towards less risky option, since the gains are modest even with higher risks.

[x] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

[X] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

[X] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)

Like, come on.

To be clear:

"Meng Dan, may I ask what sort of compensation might satisfy your clan on this subject?" Ling Qi asked.

He cupped his chin, frowning deeply. "...That depends on several things."


And then, later in the update:

"I suppose that will have to change, given the increasing amount showing up in unwanted places," Meng Dan said mildly. "I have read Lady Cai's reports on this… Labyrinth within the glacier you have discovered. Will you be plumbing it soon?"

"Relatively, I'm sure," Ling Qi replied dryly.

"Relatively, of course," Meng Dan chuckled. "Will the study of any artifacts or treasures be done here then, or will they be sent back to the capital?"


Meng Dan might as well have been jumping up and down screaming that this is something that would help make the compensation comparatively bloodless or even count as part of the compensation. Going, "We're definitely not going to shut the Meng out" and then choosing literally every single option to shut the Meng out is going to win us nothing but enemies among people we kinda need to be allies.

[X] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)