Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Not disputing that, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way around. It's not an ability cool down, it's how much pain Molly can tolerate before it causes permanent mental issues.

Those should be treated differently, and riding the line on something like that as a matter of course isn't something sane people do even in the absence of immediate consequences.

Use it for emergencies? Sure. But taking the one week gap period as an indication we should use it once a week is leaning way too hard into game mechanics without paying enough attention to what they're abstracting.
So you have no intention of campaigning against it right? Just its use outside of emergencies? I support your approach.

What I am against are not people like you, because I understand where they come from and also personally prefer to use it only in emergencies or the most critical projects, but those who totally deny its charm and its usefulness, thinking that even having it will bring horrible consequences for Molly. This one I can't stand.
 
I recall that despite Harry's upgraded wards in the end his apartment got burned down.
 
Not disputing that, but I think you're looking at it the wrong way around. It's not an ability cool down, it's how much pain Molly can tolerate before it causes permanent mental issues.

Those should be treated differently, and riding the line on something like that as a matter of course isn't something sane people do even in the absence of immediate consequences.

Use it for emergencies? Sure. But taking the one week gap period as an indication we should use it once a week is leaning way too hard into game mechanics without paying enough attention to what they're abstracting.
Oh, I agree. Personally, my position would be "buy it, bank for Mab, then keep it banked and use it only if it's literal life or death,"
 
I have negative desire for actually attempting to push through SRP given that I had seen so far. If we do purchase SRP, I super not looking forward to debating if this time SRP use is justified or not every single time.

I think that working out a substitute is easier, and would be better for the thread as a whole.
 
So far, diminishing returns don't seem to be a thing, with qualitatively new effects appearing as we break into new tiers of super legendary plus successes. We can quite possibly quadruple dice pool Harry has available, and add qualitative weight to his magic that he lacks. And yes, better protection is worth the effort.
We have limited resources and a lot to do.

Harry is already a very hard target with backup and the ability to call for help. The last time someone almost made it through his old wards, it took a Heir of Kemmler and a literal army of superzombies sacrificing themselves to wear the wards down. Of every household in the Chicago area, the only home thats better protected against magical threat is the Carpenter home.

Time spent tearing down Harry's current superduper wards in order to make them extra superduper is time and resources we could spend setting up wards for literally anyone else who doesnt have them.
Or doing literally anything else.

I will repeat that Harry's wards impress Carlos Ramirez, a veteran of the current Vampire War for their potency.
Agree to disagree I guess.
 
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We have limited resources and a lot to do.

Harry is already a very hard target with backup and the ability to call for help. The last time someone almost made it through his old wards, it took a Heir of Kemmler and a literal army of superzombies sacrificing themselves to wear the wards down. Of every household in the Chicago area, the only home thats better protected against magical threat is the Carpenter home.

Time spent tearing down Harry's current superduper wards in order to make them extra superduper is time and resources we could spend setting up wards for literally anyone else who doesnt have them.
Or doing literally anything else.

I will repeat that Harry's wards impress Carlos Ramirez, a veteran of the current Vampire War for their potency.
Agree to disagree I guess.
That, our time and resources will be much better spent making strong protections in Lydia's houses (especially) and the other minor practitioners (if we are invited) than in Harry's.
 
We have limited resources and a lot to do.

Harry is already a very hard target with backup and the ability to call for help. The last time someone almost made it through his old wards, it took a Heir of Kemmler and a literal army of superzombies sacrificing themselves to wear the wards down. Of every household in the Chicago area, the only home thats better protected against magical threat is the Carpenter home.

Time spent tearing down Harry's current superduper wards in order to make them extra superduper is time and resources we could spend setting up wards for literally anyone else who doesnt have them.
Or doing literally anything else.

I will repeat that Harry's wards impress Carlos Ramirez, a veteran of the current Vampire War for their potency.
Agree to disagree I guess.
I'm not arguing that we should ward Lydia's, Rosie's and our (arguable) houses first. However, as soon as we have time, we should also do the improvements to Harry's safety. As was correctly mentioned, Harry's apartment burned down in the end. So obviously his protections weren't good enough
 
I'm not arguing that we should ward Lydia's, Rosie's and our (arguable) houses first. However, as soon as we have time, we should also do the improvements to Harry's safety. As was correctly mentioned, Harry's apartment burned down in the end. So obviously his protections weren't good enough
Wasn't the issue with the fire precisely that the protections were so powerful that there was no way to get past them, so they decided to bypass them, setting fire to the apartment instead of invading? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
Wasn't the issue with the fire precisely that the protections were so powerful that there was no way to get past them, so they decided to bypass them, setting fire to the apartment instead of invading? Or am I thinking of something else?
They set fire to the entire Apartment complex (not only Harry's apartment), because Harry's Wards were too good.
 
[X] Bronzetongue

[X] Yog

Approval voting, and gotta say I loved that update! The lore and tenor of everything was sublime and I was absolutely gripped from the first paragraph and it's stream of consciousness looking into the history and heft of the cauldron

@DragonParadox just to make sure, but we didn't break the cauldron right?
 
And of course with a ward spirit it might also be able to do things like intimidate
It likely 'can' intimidate, but it is a creature created out of malice however well directed. It's not going to try and scare off prey deliberately. It finds great satisfaction in being trying to invade with ill intent.
 
They set fire to the entire Apartment complex (not only Harry's apartment), because Harry's Wards were too good.
This.

Its worth noting that in Turn Coat, the naagloshii invaded the Raith estate and beat Lara and her sisters half to death, despite them being loaded for bear, a mortal security team, and both Dresden and Luccio being there.
But it didnt attempt to test the wards on Dresden's apartment.
 
[X] Bronzetongue

[X] Yog

Approval voting, and gotta say I loved that update! The lore and tenor of everything was sublime and I was absolutely gripped from the first paragraph and it's stream of consciousness looking into the history and heft of the cauldron

@DragonParadox just to make sure, but we didn't break the cauldron right?

You did not break it, the only thing that went in it were some herbs, some ash and water to make the mist. It will be fine with a good scrub. Also speaking os Salem era stuff, the part with the shears and the sieve is an authentic Salem era superstition, and in this universe an authentic means of ritual divination when working with unknown powers which Bob taught you as part of th general exchange of Occult lore
 
They set fire to the entire Apartment complex (not only Harry's apartment), because Harry's Wards were too good.
Well obviously they were not good enough. A least god of intelligent malice would see those fire bombers intent and likely burn them alive before the managed to burn the apartment Complex. They might be a protector god, but that doesn't mean that they can't do sorties out in keeping with their purpose. It's called proactive defense.
 
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You did not break it, the only thing that went in it were some herbs, some ash and water to make the mist. It will be fine with a good scrub. Also speaking os Salem era stuff, the part with the shears and the sieve is an authentic Salem era superstition
Just to be clear - while the cauldron can be reused generally, it has been burned as a target of the Crown?

I'm feel like I'm poking at a game abstraction here by asking, and aplogies if so, but if we were to attempt the same sort of "building warding" ritual elsewhere would any of the following be valid targets for the "How to make the ritual being done here and now most safe" question:

The building itself
The consumable ingredients
The legal owner (if present)
The deed to the building (if present)
Any one of the practioners taking part in the warding
 
[X] No, but this is even better than what you had envisaged
-[X] There was no point where this was out of control, but the opportunity wasn't apparent until after we started.
 
Well obviously they were not good enough. A least god of intelligent malice would see those fire bombers intent and likely burn them alive before the managed to burn the apartment Complex. They might be a protector god, but that doesn't mean that they can't do sorties out in keeping with their purpose. It's called proactive defense.
You do remember that other people have magic defenses, right?
Dresden is one of the most powerful wizards for pure strength in the world, and he has had his magic nullified not once, not twice, not three times. Not just by people, but by items.

They arent common, but they do exist. If someone is attacking Dresden's home, assume competence.

Dude has been attacked at home all of three times:
Storm Front, when he was a noob and Sells sent a demon.
Dead Beat, when Grevane brought a small army of superzombies.
Changes, when the Red King sent his very best hit squad with an Ick demon for backup, and even they resorted to just burning his apartment building down.

Noone else, not Denarians or naagloshii or Black Court vampires have ever attempted to test his defenses while he's there.
Just to be clear - while the cauldron can be reused generally, it has been burned as a target of the Crown?

I'm feel like I'm poking at a game abstraction here by asking, and aplogies if so, but if we were to attempt the same sort of "building warding" ritual elsewhere would any of the following be valid targets for the "How to make the ritual being done here and now most safe" question:

The building itself
The consumable ingredients
The legal owner (if present)
The deed to the building (if present)
Any one of the practioners taking part in the warding
We didnt use the Cauldron as a focus.
We used its then contents and the ladle for a reason. Both are disposable.
 
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Just to be clear - while the cauldron can be reused generally, it has been burned as a target of the Crown?

I'm feel like I'm poking at a game abstraction here by asking, and aplogies if so, but if we were to attempt the same sort of "building warding" ritual elsewhere would any of the following be valid targets for the "How to make the ritual being done here and now most safe" question:

The building itself
The consumable ingredients
The legal owner (if present)
The deed to the building (if present)
Any one of the practioners taking part in the warding

The question was pointed at the ritual and it was specifically 'how to make it safer'. It told you when to warn who and something of the dangers of mortals touching essence. If you ask the same question in the future you are not going to get more lore even if you finagle the target of the crown.
 
You do remember that other people have magic defenses, right?
Dresden is one of the most powerful wizards for pure strength in the world, and he has had his magic nullified not once, not twice, not three times. Not just by people, but by items.

They arent common, but they do exist. If someone is attacking Dresden's home, assume competence.
This feels like moving the goal posts. Before we shouldn't improve the wards on Harry's place because it doesn't matter if they are great people can still firebomb the whole apartment complex. Then I mention that a god can stop that.

Also the important part is the "Intelligent". If it can't just make the attackers burst into flame directly it will find other ways to express it's malice.
 
[X] No, but this is even better than what you had envisaged
-[X] There was no point where this was out of control, but the opportunity wasn't apparent until after we started.
 
This feels like moving the goal posts. Before we shouldn't improve the wards on Harry's place because it doesn't matter if they are great people can still firebomb the whole apartment complex. Then I mention that a god can stop that.

Also the important part is the "Intelligent". If it can't just make the attackers burst into flame directly it will find other ways to express it's malice.
No its not. Its me warning you to temper your expectations.

Do recall that least gods are just that: least gods.
They arent arbitrarily powerful, they dont have arbitrary range, they can be defeated, and they have limited portfolio. Demonreach cant reach out and smack people beyond the borders of the lake, and its a lot more powerful than a defensive hearth god.

On the apartments threshold yes. The whole building possible.
If someone is lobbing Molotov cocktails from across the street, or from a plane five hundred feet overhead, or a remotely piloted drone at the end of the street, or sabotaging the gas mains from the other end of the city block? Things get iffy.

And if they have magic defenses...well.
 
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They set fire to the entire Apartment complex (not only Harry's apartment), because Harry's Wards were too good.
Good can be hard to nail down in this context.

Harry's wards are powerful, but they're also very direct and vulnerable to exploitation because of it.

In the very first explanation of what a ward is in the main Dresden Files books Harry mentions that wizards can do things like bind guardians to their wards. Creatures that get summoned when trigger conditions are met based on a contract/coercive binding, constructs, stuff like that.

This is presumably done to address this exact hole in the sort of wards Dresden uses; if someone tries something tricky you summon something with the reach to go out and stop them or otherwise take more flexible action.

The fact that Harry doesn't makes his hards narrow in an exploitable way that costs him dearly.

I agree his defenses should be on the bottom of the list, but they could still use some upgrades and that should be visible even with pure IC knowledge.

At very least when we talk to him about what we've been doing with warding we should make an argument to him about the necessity of adding summons to his defenses.

He's a proper wizard, we don't need to hold his hand for him to put something useful together.
You did not break it, the only thing that went in it were some herbs, some ash and water to make the mist. It will be fine with a good scrub. Also speaking os Salem era stuff, the part with the shears and the sieve is an authentic Salem era superstition, and in this universe an authentic means of ritual divination when working with unknown powers which Bob taught you as part of th general exchange of Occult lore
Did the cauldron get any neat properties from containing the essence of an exalt and a demigod and helping shape a brand new genus loci?

For that matter, is this the sort of thing the ordo could pick up insights from or was it too far beyond their reach to be useful?

When marcone hears about this we are really going to be reinforcing what gard said about us.
He isn't all knowing, Marcone probably won't learn about this until and unless it goes off and does something spectacular.

I'm hoping it hits that Skavos with the sort of Consequences that end up in legends. If anyone has "chew toy for least god made out curses forged from hellfire and death magic through the most infamous school of American Witchcraft" it's that guy.
 
If it gets to points of bombers flying over U.S. airspace or rockets I would rather hope that the U.S. military would get involved. What are we paying taxes for?
 
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