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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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so. is there a reason we haven't taken Nightmare Fugue Vigilance yet?

we already suffer the downside (nightmares cause willpower roll to regain willpower).

and it means we dont need to sleep normally, which has a lot of value.

and its only a 1 dot charm so its cheap.
 
DarknessSmiles said:
so. is there a reason we haven't taken Nightmare Fugue Vigilance yet?

we already suffer the downside (nightmares cause willpower roll to regain willpower).

and it means we dont need to sleep normally, which has a lot of value.

and its only a 1 dot charm so its cheap.
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Because we have Word of QM that the nightmares stack in a way that makes sleeping even harder and the charm doesn't provide willpower regen, so we'd still have to sleep anyway. And there's other ways to get rid of sleep without the downside that just need more XP. And there's also other things to spend XP on. Even one-dot favored charms have to fight for a place on our XP budget, because there's too many things that need buying.

Honestly, we'll probably just take the one-dot no-downsides Healing Path ritual to remove sleep, since we're planning to get the Healing Path for other reasons anyway and after that it's a 1 XP surcharge to grab the ritual. Just need to get around to it. Or we could grab the alchemy recipe, since we're already learning alchemy. We have options.
 
The chapter specifically says we don't need to worry about him believing us in the AN. I don't know why everyone is voting to demonstrate instead of just explaining.

Ah well, I suppose we do have the social skills to play off the fact that we're playing the part of the devilish tempter to the hilt, complete with "first one's free" bargaining techniques.

Not that I think the time it takes to get coffee is enough for him to notice the hunger being gone, anyway. He isn't one of the dregs that constantly struggle with it. For all we know, he just ate recently and barely notices his hunger right now.
 
[x] It seems I have the powers of a general or a despot and so it it within my reach to proclaim an pause on certain curses upon those who serve me so long as that service is true
 
I think the bigger problem with splintered gale clones would be the moral implications and explaining that to our family. They are fully loyal, yeah, but they are 'real' mortals in every way that counts from my understanding. I don't think the other Carpenters will be very comfortable with living copies of their daughter being (possibly expendable) servents of their daughter.
Unless I'm making a mistake with my understanding of the charm, ofc.
 
powergoat said:
I think the bigger problem with splintered gale clones would be the moral implications and explaining that to our family. They are fully loyal, yeah, but they are 'real' mortals in every way that counts from my understanding. I don't think the other Carpenters will be very comfortable with living copies of their daughter being (possibly expendable) servents of their daughter.
Unless I'm making a mistake with my understanding of the charm, ofc.
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They are not copies, they are all Molly, they cannot be servants as it would be the same as saying that your hand is your servant. People just like to try to throw invented moral and philosophical problems into this charm of what I've gleaned from earlier discussions in the thread.
DragonParadox said:
Horcruxes, but better because you can have them do work, and yes it is ethical to make them because they are you so in the moment of their creation they would agree to be made by definition. Just don't mistreat them and you are fine. Also make sure the clone you use as an Horcrux, that is the one who is nearest to you is in stasis so you are not destroying any memories.
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DragonParadox said:
You cannot grant wishes to yourself and for the purposes of your charms your clones are part of you.
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DragonParadox said:
A clone would have all of your skills so there is that as for the resurrection mechanic if you put them in stasis instantly it is hard to argue you are killing anyone since all that they are you are... including the choice to make the clone.
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DragonParadox said:
But she would still be you, she would still know more of the occult than most mortal practitioners learn in a lifetime, she would still have your curiosity for the otherworldly, if not the Urge of infernal Exaltation and when the cards are down she is still an aspect of a demon flayed apart in flesh and spirit and set loose. Clones are loyal but they are not puppets so if you ask one to live a normal life she is more likely to play the part than fully embrace the mundane.
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DragonParadox said:
Splintered Gale Incarnation might look like different people and it might look like aspects of the same person and both are true at the same time because the nature of the Primordials of which you draw your power is not limited to puny mortal understanding in much the same way as VEE's wish granting can look like it breaks causality when someone who asks for a job receives a letter asking them to start tomorrow even though the letter is dated a week before they made the request.

So is SGI a person whom you would be killing if you get killed and reincarnate? Well no, that paradigm would depend on the entity being able to exist as something other than an aspect of Molly Carpenter, there is no button marked 'let the clone loose', anymore than there is a button to make two plus two make six. Does someone/something die as part of the imperfect reincarnation, yes a part of you, but that is inherent to the themes of the Hell of Being Skinned Alive. Freedom Lets Go literally rips off a piece of your soul with a curse or transformation attached and hurls it into the depths of hell.
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At least we will not have to worry about having to take care of splintered gale clones. I figured that we would have to wait until we got our own house or something. But they all have the passive part of TLF so they passively auto-pass survival checks. We shouldn't have to worry about supplying them with food or shelter.
 
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fictionfan said:
At least we will not have to worry about having to take care of splintered gale clones. I figured that we would have to wait until we got our own house or something. But they all have the passive part of TLF so they passively auto-pass survival checks. We shouldn't have to worry about supplying them with food or shelter.
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Although, that probably wouldn't be a problem anyway, considering how close we are to wealth and financial independence, and how long it will probably take us to get the charm considering how low it is on the priority list. We have too many other things to spend XP on.
 
[x] It seems I have the powers of a general or a despot and so it it within my reach to proclaim an pause on certain curses upon those who serve me so long as that service is true

[X] So, you know how I'm a kickass girl now? I'm apparently a kickass metaphysical tyrant girl with magical girl powers that work on funny concepts. If someone is recognized by... I don't know, the universal laws? to work under my authority, they are automatically put under the aegis of my protection. This includes protection from supernatural maladies, such as various types of vampiric hunger.

I'm ok with either of these but I think the "free sample" option does not get Thomas' consent before meeting with his soul.
 
Splintered gale clones might not have crafting exalancy and they can't summon tools, but they do craft 5 or 10 times as fast. They would be a great help in fixing up the dragon nest. Getting that charm should basically save us 7 AP.

[x] It seems I have the powers of a general or a despot and so it it within my reach to proclaim an pause on certain curses upon those who serve me so long as that service is true
 
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Votes as they stand. Might want to clean up the double voting as both options are near tied.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 10, 2022 at 1:20 AM, finished with 78 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] It seems I have the powers of a general or a despot and so it it within my reach to proclaim an pause on certain curses upon those who serve me so long as that service is true
    [X] "Let me give you a demonstration, please? Could you grab me a refill? I swear, it's not dangerous" you say, indicating to your almost empty cup. When he returns, you explain further: "Did you notice your hunger quieting while you were helping me? Apparently, being a scary and powerful being comes with a sort of authority. And that authority extends to those who follow me, even in such minor things. Think of it as a health benefit package to employment. It's an automatic incentive program, not anything incurring any sort of debt or cost"
    [X] So, you know how I'm a kickass girl now? I'm apparently a kickass metaphysical tyrant girl with magical girl powers that work on funny concepts. If someone is recognized by... I don't know, the universal laws? to work under my authority, they are automatically put under the aegis of my protection. This includes protection from supernatural maladies, such as various types of vampiric hunger.
    [X] Give me the cursed, the damned, the blighted masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of nights' teeming shore. For mine is the power to lift them up and ease their suffering.
    [X] My shadow swallows up the shadows of any who serve me, allowing me to lift from them the burden of hunger, want and pain
    [X] So, you know how I'm a kickass girl now? I'm apparently a kickass metaphysical tyrant girl with magical girl powers that work on funny concepts. More seriously, I got a new tyrant employment policy. I can give special health benefits for my employees! Including things like easing all sorts of hunger, want, and pain. All sorts.
    [X] "Think of it like paranormal health & dental."
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Before Changes comes around I want Molly to say this to Dresden "Not to pressure you or anything, but if you are ever tempted to sell your soul for power consider me before other offers. My rates are very competitive."
 
Azais said:
They are not copies, they are all Molly, they cannot be servants as it would be the same as saying that your hand is your servant. People just like to try to throw invented moral and philosophical problems into this charm of what I've gleaned from earlier discussions in the thread
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Really? We got rulings that changed the equation to an extent, but a baseline reading of the charm includes none of that stuff. The questions raised were entirely reasonable in that context; it's not like infernal charms hesitate to do awful stuff in their routine functions.

For my part I still think those concerns apply even knowing they're connected. Specifically because they're still distinct in every way I've been concerned about from the beginning; they might also be part of Molly, but not in a way that changes their properties in a way that matters.

Note where one of the posts you quoted even specifies this; they both are and aren't Molly at the same time. The part where they are connected doesn't negate the part where they aren't.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Really? We got rulings that changed the equation to an extent, but a baseline reading of the charm includes none of that stuff. The questions raised were entirely reasonable in that context; it's not like infernal charms hesitate to do awful stuff in their routine functions.
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I understand that the questions asked were reasonable and I even liked it because I really like to know more information about our different charms, however my patience with the Clones topic ended due to the GM being forced to make several different comments explaining the same thing because I had people constantly telling to him "but I understand it that way..." or "are you sure?" instead of just accepting WOG.

BronzeTongue said:
For my part I still think those concerns apply even knowing they're connected. Specifically because they're still distinct in every way I've been concerned about from the beginning; they might also be part of Molly, but not in a way that changes their properties in a way that matters.

Note where one of the posts you quoted even specifies this; they both are and aren't Molly at the same time. The part where they are connected doesn't negate the part where they aren't.
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I know these concerns but I will choose him when the time comes for two reasons:

1) I had my concerns about their lifestyle (where they will live, the cost of feeding and clothing them will be too much for our parents etc...) but now that we are going to have a good income and neither Molly nor we will choosing to treat the clones in horrible ways, those concerns were greatly alleviated.

2) Its extreme usefulness, because I really don't turn down a charm that can revive us unless it has very dire consequences, which contrary to what some might believe, Splintered Gale doesn't have nearly enough to impact its value.
 
I am currently reading the great debate about hollow mind possession:

Can someone explain to me why in all hells where there players arguing for the qm to add dangers to a charm where he repeatedly said that he was willing to change the fluff without adding said danger?

Because I don't know how DP resolved it yet, but I can tell you that there are Qms who would have lost patience way before and given you the worst version of the charm, the one where the demon IS a spy and told you that you were now stuck with this. Seriously, how many times did he have to repeat that this wasn't going to be the case and there were no ifs or buts?
 
Prospalz said:
It was like, two pages long. That's barely anything.
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The last debate was two pages long, the first complaint and regular returns to it were at least from 20 pages before, it span far more than 2 pages.

And given that the charm has been used given what's written in the character sheet, I don't really see how asking about it could create another flame, it has clearly been settled and is long gone.
 
Nyarky said:
The last debate was two pages long
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Then I must have just kind of ignored it.

These are bad practices in general; much like even unloaded guns should be handled with care, even old long-extinguished dumpsterfires could suddenly achieve a second life through a careless "So, who was the idiot who thought that this was a good idea?" sort of question. At least phrase it with some care, IDK.

Often enough, especially with good thread/playerbase you'll actually receive a pretty decent rundown on what happened, but that's kinda playing with fire.
 
OK, looks pretty settled. Vote closed, let' s see how Thomas takes the news
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 10, 2022 at 1:20 AM, finished with 78 posts and 24 votes.
  • [x] It seems I have the powers of a general or a despot and so it it within my reach to proclaim an pause on certain curses upon those who serve me so long as that service is true
    [X] "Let me give you a demonstration, please? Could you grab me a refill? I swear, it's not dangerous" you say, indicating to your almost empty cup. When he returns, you explain further: "Did you notice your hunger quieting while you were helping me? Apparently, being a scary and powerful being comes with a sort of authority. And that authority extends to those who follow me, even in such minor things. Think of it as a health benefit package to employment. It's an automatic incentive program, not anything incurring any sort of debt or cost"
    [X] So, you know how I'm a kickass girl now? I'm apparently a kickass metaphysical tyrant girl with magical girl powers that work on funny concepts. If someone is recognized by... I don't know, the universal laws? to work under my authority, they are automatically put under the aegis of my protection. This includes protection from supernatural maladies, such as various types of vampiric hunger.
    [X] Give me the cursed, the damned, the blighted masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of nights' teeming shore. For mine is the power to lift them up and ease their suffering.
    [X] My shadow swallows up the shadows of any who serve me, allowing me to lift from them the burden of hunger, want and pain
    [X] So, you know how I'm a kickass girl now? I'm apparently a kickass metaphysical tyrant girl with magical girl powers that work on funny concepts. More seriously, I got a new tyrant employment policy. I can give special health benefits for my employees! Including things like easing all sorts of hunger, want, and pain. All sorts.
    [X] "Think of it like paranormal health & dental."
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Maybe we should have added something about how we're hoping to use that power to ensure the white court in Undertown don't become a threat during the project with minimal loss of life? Make it clear that any recruitment pitch he may be sensing is incidental?
 
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DragonParadox said:
For one you can train them to be cultists or battle-mooks, you can shove demons in them to give them all sorts of weird and wacky abilities. I think the idea is that an Infernal's underlings are disposable or at least less important than any essence they might use for command charms. It's the Solars who are the virtuous warrior-philosophers, Infernals are the villain sending wave after wave after the heroes.
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I still think there should as least be a "Make my monster grow" charm.
 
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