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“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest

Would you Distort or manifest EGO?

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Docere AcDiscere said:
I wouldn't even mention that, better not give them ideas...
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If they want to they are going to do that anyway, I'm sure Sayaka knows on some level that healing isn't free even for her, she just didn't care at that point back in Canon
Knowing your capabilities and limits better is generally more conducive to long-term health unless you take that as an excuse to go wild though.

Lepidoptera said:
In exchange, Kyubey explains some of the more intricate mechanics of Soul Gems, Grief, and Magic.
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In fact, I'd vote for telling them what QB mentioned about MGs more esoteric capabilities if it were appropriate, since I don't think all the MGs here are aware of those. Or can we try to do so now? Hm. Any ideas?
(Feel free to workshop an alternate phrasing for that particular subvote though, I'll switch to it if I think it's better)

E: Ooh, an QM Insightful
 
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[X] (Operation) Mention she'll be asleep for at least a few hours after the operation, and likely longer. We can try to awaken you afterward, but that may not be possible. Continue if she's fine with that.
-[X] In fact, since it's your EGO, can you take away the falling asleep part safely?
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth

Yeah, that makes sense.
Decided to change vote.

EDIT: I don't know what's happening anymore, changed vote
 
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Come to think of it, I'm really surprised Mami and Homura didn't have an bigger reaction to X effectively knowing some of their most private memories. Trust? Or perhaps they don't know what exactly was shown?

Hopefully I don't have to modify this vote again...
[X] (Operation) Mention she'll be asleep for at least a few hours after the operation, and likely longer. We can try to awaken you afterward, but that may not be possible. Continue if she's fine with that.
-[X] In fact, since it's your EGO, can you take away the falling asleep part safely?
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
[X] (Add-Ons) Aside from the truth regarding Witches, also mention the (relevant) information about Soul Gems, Grief and Magic you got from Kyubey from the deal

(The relevant information as to where the add-on came from is in the above quote in my previous post, if you're confused here)

E: Certain write-ups removed
 
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[X] (Operation) Mention she'll be asleep for at least a few hours after the operation, and likely longer. We can try to awaken you afterward, but that may not be possible. Continue if she's fine with that.
-[X] In fact, since it's your EGO, can you take away the falling asleep part safely?
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though.
[X] (Add-Ons) Aside from the truth regarding Witches, also mention the (relevant) information about Soul Gems, Grief and Magic you got from Kyubey from the deal
 
Lepidoptera said:
glaring at one another with their faces barely a hand's width apart.
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Now, kiss!

Lepidoptera said:
Homura is staring at Madoka, who was shifting uncomfortably in her seat before you entered.
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We didn't miss a love confession, did we?

Lepidoptera said:
It always falls to you to stop people from making poor choices. At least it's only cake this time.
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Yeah, compared to the time we had to stop the sephirath, this is nothing.

Lepidoptera said:
Nobody dares speak but you. It seems as though the second you began telling your story, the warmth vanished from Mami's small apartment. Clouds have drifted over the sun, turning a bright noon into a dreary, ominous one.
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Ok, who let White Night be the one who decide the ambiance? We could do with a little less dramatic clouds, thank you.

Lepidoptera said:
Did you expect us to be freaked out or scared of you or something like that?
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Yes, yes she did.

Lepidoptera said:
That…

…wasn't- isn't-
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א has encountered an error, reboot? Y/N

Lepidoptera said:
"I would prefer to have to operation done in private." Homura says. "There are some memories I would prefer remain private."
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About what was expected.

Lepidoptera said:
I wrote this instead of sleeping.
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Go to sleep!

Suleverf said:
My only concern is if lobotomy temporarily unveils our abnormality form to outside viewers.
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Apart from what is probably our wings (given what they look like in the pic of the alchemist and lobotomy's description), I don't think it breaks our shell.

Docere AcDiscere said:
I thought that the reason they panicked about the soul gems was that they "became monsters" or something.
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To be more in depths with that particular one: the Japanese belief about soul is different from the western one, where the Christian influenced westerner belief thinks *we ARE a soul, we HAVE a body* and as such, separate the two, the Japanese belief is that those two things are interlinked and cannot be separated without making you a monster.

This difference in belief is also why Kyouko, who learn the lich part at the same time as Sayaka, barely react to it, she has a belief system closer to Christianity and as such not as many problems with this.

Docere AcDiscere said:
Depend how QM sees it, are the MGS Immortal or become witches upon death?
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Tart magica contains a character (the wife of nicholas flamel) that is a magical girl and appears to still be in her teens despite supposedly being around a hundred or so from what some people calculated. Take that as you wish.
Lurker183839 said:
In that case half the diplomacy plan I came up with just vanished, any ideas besides giving headpats (or more generally trying to curry favour as much as possible until she gives us what we want)?
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We can still tell her we can help her be human, we already have a way to pass for human ourself, we can try and see if she can replicate it, or if we can use it on her, there never was any need for a wish in the first place.

[X] (Operation) Mention she'll be asleep for at least a few hours after the operation, and likely longer. We can try to awaken you afterwards, but that may not be possible. Continue if she's fine with that.
-[X] In fact, since it's your EGO, can you take away the falling asleep part?
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though.
 
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[X] (Operation) Suggest later
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with performing Lobotomy on Sayaka publicly, the whole thing is already inherently a violation of privacy that is very much not great IMO. Even she seems a bit uncomfortable and I think may be forcing herself and not wanting to back down from her initial "Yeah, sure" once we added more detail. We can use the whole possibility of it maybe causing her to miss the rest of the meeting as a way to give her an off-ramp if it becomes a matter of pride.
 
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[X] (Operation) Right now
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.

The operation vote was easy. She's asking, might as well.

Soul gems was hard. I am afraid of the reactions, but I am not convinced that we can avoid that, and I have decided not to hide by abstaining.

If they ask whether there's more to Gems, I guess we can say something like, "one thing at a time, I'd like you to get comfortable with this part first."?
 
Lurker183839 said:
Sayaka's issue isn't so much resolve as her character traits driving her towards self-destruction (the "I must throw everything into my ideals, self care/taking a break not allowed" variant), and also to alienate/attack/push away people she doesn't agree with tbh
It's normal, if not good, for people of that age range, but for MGs...
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I'd have to disagree. Those are just the natural consequences of being serious about your held beliefs, after all. The notion that that's an undesirable trait to grow out of is, in a way, an expression of the 'disease of the mind' Lobotomy Corporation was fighting against.

As for the vote, well, there's a reason intensely personal stuff (e.g. therapy sessions) isn't done in public. Even if Sayaka's personally okay with that, it would set a bad precedent, doctor-patient confidentiality and all that. As a bonus, I think she'd be receptive to this line of reasoning too.

[X] (Operation) Suggest later
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though.

Edit:

[X] (Operation) Suggest later
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
 
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Nyarky, do you mean make NT a new body or help her with a cage/seal? It's worth trying, but I think the former will fall into the same problem with making duplicate EGO gear

diplomacy said:
Even if Sayaka's personally okay with that, it would set a bad precedent, doctor-patient confidentiality and all that.
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Fair enough, changing vote again. Is it needed to mention the off-ramp reasoning mentioned above, or leave that to autopilot?

[X] (Operation) Suggest later
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though.
[X] (Add-Ons) Aside from the truth regarding Witches, also mention the (relevant) information about Soul Gems, Grief and Magic you got from Kyubey from the deal
 
We still need to let them SEE what it is that we do to them though.

That's the whole point of the vote. To let them UNDERSTAND what it is that Lobotomy TRULY is.

Doctor-patient confidentiality applies when you actually KNOW what it is that the doctor will do. X is literally springing your mind open and playing connect-dot with it.

At the very least, this is an opportunity to show them what it is that X does. That's the point of the vote.
 
Lepidoptera said:
The sole exception is Kyoko, who remains intently focused on your words.
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Lepidoptera said:
Kyoko breaks the silence. "Neat. Is that where all your weapons come from? 'Cause I know you said they aren't magic."

"Is that really all you have to ask?"

"What?" Kyoko seems legitimately surprised. "You haven't killed anyone so far. Mami seems to trust you, so that's good enough for me. Did you expect us to be freaked out or scared of you or something like that?"
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I'm really getting the sense that Kyoko knows more than she lets on here. It's still vague enough that you could probably explain it with Kyoko being the most practical and carefree MG here, but taken with everything else it's a little suspicious. Neither Mami nor Homura have noted anything odd about Kyoko though, so it's probably reasonable enough that it's not wildly out of character for Kyoko.
 
[X] (Operation) Mention she'll be asleep for at least a few hours after the operation, and likely longer. We can try to awaken you afterward, but that may not be possible. Continue if she's fine with that.
-[X] In fact, since it's your EGO, can you take away the falling asleep part?
[X] (Soul Gems) The Truth
-[X] Focus on more practical things. Why do girls have to protect Gem at all costs, don't get too far away from them, that it gives them better body control, and that it's much harder for them to die.
--[X]That's no reason to overuse the last part, though

......... is it wrong that I am at a loss at the moment
You guys got it handled and ultimately we will see how this goes
 
Lurker183839 said:
Is it needed to mention the off-ramp reasoning mentioned above, or leave that to autopilot?
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I think it's okay to leave it to X.
questioningmeme said:
We still need to let them SEE what it is that we do to them though.

That's the whole point of the vote. To let them UNDERSTAND what it is that Lobotomy TRULY is.

Doctor-patient confidentiality applies when you actually KNOW what it is that the doctor will do. X is literally springing your mind open and playing connect-dot with it.

At the very least, this is an opportunity to show them what it is that X does. That's the point of the vote.
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Can't we, like, just describe to them in detail what Lobotomy does? The only reason to let someone else observe the process is Science (since we'd like to know how it looks from the outside), but X herself seems to have a good idea of what Lobotomy does.

I suppose we could try to showcase its use on a Grief Seed, but if we're serious about turning witches back this has its own ethical issues.
 
Nyarky said:
At least we are going to explicitly do prepwork on the witch bomb, that's good.



Problems with this and all the proposition that comes from it:

-NT is extremely antagonistic towards Kyubey and kills it's bodies as soon as they enter her senses range, which is quite large, we'd have to convince NT to let the little bunny satan approach in the first place and I don't want to, because it's a good attitude.

-For those not convinced by that, Kazumi magica's ending points out a very, very important little wrench in that plan: wishing to be human is a null wish, when Kazumi does so, Kyubey immediately points out that it won't work because she will immediately turn into a MG, and as such, not be human anymore. Since he would almost certainly react the same to NT wishing to be human, and NT won't have the reasoning kazumi had to wish for it anyway, that wish's not happening.



You're describing projection quest's power, right?

Edit:
Nevermind my question to Kalibrius, I am a moron who didn't read his last post enough, don't mind me.
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Well there is one thing I forgot

Bleed over, things from the teachers world would leak in over time
That would be a fun way to screw with the head

But I digress

I wonder an idle pondering but how do you think X here would fare in a setting like say Worm, I am curious as to how they would fare
 
Lurker183839 said:
Nyarky, do you mean make NT a new body or help her with a cage/seal? It's worth trying, but I think the former will fall into the same problem with making duplicate EGO gear
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I am talking about the fact that we have a technique to appear human, maybe we can teach it to her?

questioningmeme said:
We still need to let them SEE what it is that we do to them though.
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Yeah, we really need to look at what it looks likes.

diplomacy said:
Can't we, like, just describe to them in detail what Lobotomy does? The only reason to let someone else observe the process is Science (since we'd like to know how it looks from the outside), but X herself seems to have a good idea of what Lobotomy does.
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No, because we don't know what exactly it does, or, to be more precise, we know the result, but we don't know the process, we have no idea what it looks like from the outside, we really NEED to have an outside observer for it at one point or another and Sayaka just said she was ok with it. That's the whole oint of the vote, to gain more data about ourself, shying from it is not a good idea.
 
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......
You know that's a relatively good idea
Have aleph connect to NT and teach it the ego shell trick then we can acheive a non confrontational approach the trick is if lobotomy can be used as such a trick to impart the knowledge
 
Kalibrius said:
I wonder an idle pondering but how do you think X here would fare in a setting like say Worm, I am curious as to how they would fare
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Worm immediately runs into one big problem: What Headcanon are you using about the entities ability to learn?

If you use one like mine (they can, but they don't do it instantly, and most of it is actually done between cycles, they don't transfer the data during it and as such can't really get everything fast), then we are a big out of context problem that will make Precogs cry, which is the most important thing to have in Worm, if you aren't immune to precog, then you automatically lose all agency and become a puppet that Contessa and Ziz use for playing dolls. We are actually a pretty strong Brute and Mover, have some thinker abilities, some strong blaster ones and we have the most powerful rating of all: Common sense. Out true form can probably kill endbringers due to one very important thing: we have conceptual abilities, and this is the best way to beat them, it doesn't matter how resistant to physical damages they are if we are not using physical damages, after all.

If you use some of the most annoying ones for crossovers, where the shards learn everything instantly and there are no such thing as out of context to them, then we are a puppet and it doesn't matter. (And some people wonder why the most common ability that every single crossover get in worm is immunity to precog... Seriously, it is a requirement, anything you try if you aren't is worth nothing, this is boring).


Naron said:
Technically, she has such a technique as well. Hers just offloads the difficult parts on someone else :V
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Which is exactly why I think we should try to see if we can teach her ours, she already has some base for it, maybe we can compare our methods and get one that works for her, maybe we can give her one of our spare EGO somehow and she can use it to create a body, there's some potential here and I want to science the heck out of it.
 
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Out of context yes, unlearnable no
Possibility of humanity ensues due to inadvertant light saturation and egos, they won't know what hit them till it's too late

An example a librarian with schadenfreudes ego
Simurgh in for an awful time
 
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