Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Hence why sticking to werewolf crafting stuff is ideal as we can mass produce those no problem.
No we cant.
Fetishes require a willing spirit of the proper type, and a Dragon Nest.
Those are nontrivial concerns for someone with the aura of an archdevil.
We also, as much as it still pains me to say it, didn't build a crafter.

Building ourselves stuff is one thing, but we picked the wrong key charms and existing load out for mass production.

Being able to make super gadgets for ourselves and possibly Lydia is probably the most that it's effective to go for.

Not that we can't or shouldn't get what we can out of building ourselves tools, but stuff like producing fat stacks of items is probably the sort of thing we should outsource to Molly's hell.
 
Here are primers I did on the crafting types a while back. It's implied that Prodigies and Arcana have 1 charm to unlock, Gadgets have 1 charm to unlock, and splendors have 1 charm to unlock, though those charms aren't exactly defined yet and if I understood some earlier remarks of Dragonparadox correctly we're getting all categories in 1 charm.


--------------------------------------------
Prodigies

Notes/Quotes: Mystic Collapse has been altered


Gadgets


Arcana

Notes/Quotes: How Emanation names work



Splendors
Thank you.

With all respect to Holden, who has done a pretty good job on the rest of the book, I have to say that, with the possible exception of Arcana, its not an improvement over the previous system. Craft does not appear to be one of his strong points.
And this shows symptoms of some of the overly fiddly subsystems and authorial mandates that I didnt like in Exalted 3E.

Not to mention that thematically, killing stuff for crafting components in the Dresdenverse is very sus, and thematically inappropriate. Questing for components, sure. Killing sapients not so much.
But hey, still QM's call.
Exalted social and we will have taken over the whole of the under town soon 1-2 months, thousands of spirits on tap. And also you know all the stuff in the personal hell. And charm does not care, if they are willing or not.
devil-reFining Cauldron (••••)The Exalt may craft an item suitable for habitation by a wicked spirit, and then dissolve a Bane or devil until it is ready to be poured into the prepared vessel.System: This Charm allows the character to create fetishes (see W20, page 221). The character must first craft the item that is to serve as the physical substance of the fetish, and must do so entirely by herself. Then, the Exalt uses this Charm to bind a spirit into the fe-tish. This may be done either with the spirit's willing cooperation, or after battering it until it has been re-duced to 0 Essence and then suspending its dissolution for 24 hours by reflexively spending 1 Essence. Such a "suspended" spirit swirls about within the Exalt's anima until either bound into a fetish, or until the suspension ends, at which point the spirit finishes discorporating.To bind a spirit into a prepared vessel, the Exalt must retire to a ritual space and spend (Fetish's rating) hours and (Fetish's rating x 3) Essence binding the spirit and object together. Because of the high Essence cost of this Charm, it is most easily performed within Dragon Nests.
1)Thats quite the assumption.
And one thats said with literally no clue of how big Chicago Undertown is. Or the fact that there is nothing resembling mass communication there.

2)Do you not actually get that there are a limited number of spirits for particular roles?
A weapon spirit will not work in a healing fetish.

Charm DOES care. A lot. It does not provide the spirit for you.
You first have to attract the spirit in the first place, which has issues given as Molly is something to run away from.
You then either negotiate for its services and pay its price, or you beat the spirit to death and capture it before it dies

Look at the PC build, and consider whether she's the sort of person who will kidnap and torture-murder spirits to stuff them into items.
We also, as much as it still pains me to say it, didn't build a crafter.
Building ourselves stuff is one thing, but we picked the wrong key charms and existing load out for mass production.
Being able to make super gadgets for ourselves and possibly Lydia is probably the most that it's effective to go for.

Not that we can't or shouldn't get what we can out of building ourselves tools, but stuff like producing fat stacks of items is probably the sort of thing we should outsource to Molly's hell.
To be fair? We're built a lot like canon Dresden is, and Dresdenverse wizards are all crafters.
We dont need mass production(and really, there are no charms for it), but thats a different matter from making stuff and it not working in the hands of non-Exalted.
 
To be fair? We're built a lot like canon Dresden is, and Dresdenverse wizards are all crafters.
We dont need mass production(and really, there are no charms for it), but thats a different matter from making stuff and it not working in the hands of non-Exalted.
Canon DF wizards all start out using foci, but generalized item crafting of the type that reliably works long term outside of the hands of the one who made it is rare.

It's a whole plot point with the warden's swords.
 
Wish more people would add the vote to ask about what Mab knows about the Exaltation.
We might want to consider rephrasing that question, just as an aside.

I generally assume Mab is fairly competent, but she can't memorize everything available to her on random obscure topics.

Asking for what information she has access to rather than what she actually knows personally could give us a broader data set.
 
Just because we already have decent armor that can be easily concealed doesn't mean we should be giving up on the high quality enchanted jacket that once belonged to Katrina. Sure, we won't be able to wear it all the time and there is a bit of an ick-factor involved due to having to peel it from the fresh corpse we just created, but it's still a really nice bit of kit with a great effect which could easily be a life saver for us.

We're going to be sticking our noses into lots of dangerous situations, so passing on the opportunity to get a good piece of defensive gear is mind boggling to me.
 
@DragonParadox is Mab a Creature of Darkness?

What about the Winter/Summer Fae in general?

I am asking because the PDF says Thallain, sluagh, redcaps are all CoDs and in 2/3E Fae were CoDs.
 
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This XP purchase is going to drive me insane, I swear.
So many charms we need, but we also need to get better Abilities, and more of them, so that our rolls when 'using' those charms are better, and we can we have more potential sources of XP.

Problem is, which do we need 'more' and 'sooner'?

We need Tech 2 and/or a Tech Excellency for our Cyberdevils
We need Allies 2 for our Cyber Devils
We need to increase our durability
We need to increase our Perception (either directly or through our Abilities)
We need to increase our Social-Fu
Need ways to help Rosie
Need ways to gather info without expending questions

So many things...

Also... could we build robots to put our cyberdevils in to help improve the Dragon's Nest?
It's been said we don't need better skills to make it get done faster, we need more hands, and that would net us more hands?
 
@DragonParadox Does Bloodless Murk Evasion work through walls and/or in 3 dimensions? Can we teleport to a shadow on the other side of a wall? Or warp into somebody's basement from the floor above?

Some math derived from wikipedia articles, particularly Orders of magnitude articles :

8 yards(Our current willpower is 8) = 7.3152 meters

pi*7.3152^2 = 168.1138 Square Meters(A little over the size of a volleyball court)

4/3*pi*7.3152^3 = 1639.71 cubic meters(A little over an acre foot, which is compared to 8 lane swimming pools in the article on acre feet)

Edit: Extending on this line of thought, does Sun-Denying Spite make everywhere in its radius count as shadow letting us teleport to arbitrary locations within our range?
 
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The Fae Queens and the Fae Courts are central to the Dresdenverse mythology.
Especially Mab, who is the lynchpin of Earth's defenses, and its most proactive defender.
Even matters where she isnt overtly involved often sees her subtle influence.

The Winter-enforced Unseelie Accords put some restraints on all sorts of supernaturals. The reason the White Council is holding their own in the Vampire War is that she gave them permission to travel through Winter. Dresden only survived Dead Beat because Mab gave him a headsup. Winter instigated the events that prevented the Archive ending up with a Denarian coin.

Winter formed the bulk of the defenders of Chicago during Battlegrounds.

Nemesis has repeatedly aimed schemes at weakening Winter for a reason; one of them is under way right now.
You cannot vote to avoid the Queen without essentially abrogating any and all ability to affect most of the plot.
Its like attempting to avoid the US AND China in modern geopolitics and still hoping to be a player.

And fantasies about smashing Winter are essentially fantasies about doing the Big Bads work for them.
Nemesis will thank you.
Right before the rest of the Outsiders flood in through the Outer Gates and attempt to kill everybody and everything.
Well those who sign it at least though even those who don't sign it some of them basically still follow it like the jade court.
 
We need Allies 2 for our Cyber Devils
I don't see why we would need to spend XP for cyber Devils. Just use HMP on the following stuff.

City cell towers 10-20 uses of HMP
Power nodes computers are all networked so only need 1 HMP
Water works computers are all networked so only need 1 HMP
Land Line hubs computers are all networked so only need 1 HMP
Camera network the city will complete networking the entire thing camera array, next year so we get most of cities camera with a single use of 1 HMP
Major Banks 20+ HMP
Internet provider hubs 10+ HMP
Airports computers 10+ HMP

Done we have basically the entire city under permanent unavoidable surveillance. We can do this in a day or two with regen from acid baths. Of all the exalted the Infernals most screw over modern society.
 
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@DragonParadox is Mab a Creature of Darkness?

What about the Winter/Summer Fae in general?

I am asking because the PDF says Thallain, sluagh, redcaps are all CoDs and in 2/3E Fae were CoDs.

Winter Fey are creatures of Darkness, Summer are not.

Thank you.

With all respect to Holden, who has done a pretty good job on the rest of the book, I have to say that, with the possible exception of Arcana, its not an improvement over the previous system. Craft does not appear to be one of his strong points.
And this shows symptoms of some of the overly fiddly subsystems and authorial mandates that I didnt like in Exalted 3E.

Not to mention that thematically, killing stuff for crafting components in the Dresdenverse is very sus, and thematically inappropriate. Questing for components, sure. Killing sapients not so much.
But hey, still QM's call.

1)Thats quite the assumption.
And one thats said with literally no clue of how big Chicago Undertown is. Or the fact that there is nothing resembling mass communication there.

2)Do you not actually get that there are a limited number of spirits for particular roles?
A weapon spirit will not work in a healing fetish.

Charm DOES care. A lot. It does not provide the spirit for you.
You first have to attract the spirit in the first place, which has issues given as Molly is something to run away from.
You then either negotiate for its services and pay its price, or you beat the spirit to death and capture it before it dies

Look at the PC build, and consider whether she's the sort of person who will kidnap and torture-murder spirits to stuff them into items.

To be fair? We're built a lot like canon Dresden is, and Dresdenverse wizards are all crafters.
We dont need mass production(and really, there are no charms for it), but thats a different matter from making stuff and it not working in the hands of non-Exalted.

The very highest powers of your crafting system are supposed to be a little sus. These are not tools meant to conform to the sensibilities of 21st century wizards of the White Council, they are the instruments of god kings and diabolists, they have more in common with the Stone Table upon which the wars of the Fey are fought than with Harry's duster.
 
offhand not sure its viable lydia is still a kid and a worry is that enemies might try for adoption. Could we try and get her adopted ourselves by us I mean michael? I know its sudden and not someone everyone likes our family is all about caring for others though?
 
@DragonParadox is Mab a Creature of Darkness?

What about the Winter/Summer Fae in general?

I am asking because the PDF says Thallain, sluagh, redcaps are all CoDs and in 2/3E Fae were CoDs.
bro shes literally called the queen of air and darkness.
Winter Fey are creatures of Darkness, Summer are not.



The very highest powers of your crafting system are supposed to be a little sus. These are not tools meant to conform to the sensibilities of 21st century wizards of the White Council, they are the instruments of god kings and diabolists, they have more in common with the Stone Table upon which the wars of the Fey are fought than with Harry's duster.
does the erkling count as a creature of darkness?
 
OK, looks like we are really close on the loot vote between not taking anything and the jacket.

Vote still open.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Oct 19, 2022 at 1:58 AM, finished with 146 posts and 32 votes.
 
Can I convince anyone to vote for taking the jacket? With all the soak we plan to get it will be very very good on us.
Also we obviously need the defense because we plan to be getting a bunch of charms to make us tougher. If we can save a few exp by getting the jacket instead, or even do both and get even tougher it seems great.

Also turning down free loot is just *shakes head*.
 
This involves a lot of sitting around and hurting ourselves for power; I'm not terribly enthused about it on a character level. It's the sort of thing that will cause us significant trouble with anyone who cares about Molly and knows what she's doing.

I see your point on the general level, but I don't think it's getting easier from here. When fighting Denarians and high tier vampires we're going to really want that speed.
I agree that it's problematic thing to do from the roleplaying perspective. My hope is that it can be role-played as sorta soulfire, only more painful. Because soulfire works by burning parts of your soul for power. It grows back later, but that's what it does. And mechanically at least it's very good for what it does, that being a universal dice adder. It's essentially a pre-stored excellency, but for anything and everything.

Or... Huh. @DragonParadox what sort of range restriction does Shadow Spite Curse has? And what sort of target restriction? Can organizations be targets for its use? Because the text says:
With a dismissive gesture, the Infernal befouls her tar-
get's efforts with the darkness and soul-biting chill of Kakuri.
System: Concentrating fully upon her target, the
Infernal's player makes a Willpower roll against diffi-
culty 7. If in combat, this is her action for the current
turn. For each success she rolls, her target loses one
die from whatever action they're currently attempting.
Signature Effect: While she wears her Shintai form,
the world around the Infernal is fractured into a jagged
landscape of tortured and bleeding Essence, where all
actions taken to oppose her suffer a –3 penalty.
It doesn't mention that the target has to be in line of sight, or in touch range. It also doesn't specify the target being an individual. It also doesn't cost essence. So, by rules as written, Molly could be meditating in her room, and reducing dice of, say, Nicodemius, at no essence cost, dice tapping him. At the highest level of interpretation she could be dice tapping Daedalus project of their dice as an organization trying to do stuff. But that's frankly broken. Because it's basically "make anyone fall at what they are currently doing from anywhere in the world, at no cost".

If the charm does indeed work at least somewhat like this, ie doesn't have target restrictions, we should buy it. Because it could basically shut down Nemesis, when we learn of it. Being a hiveminded single infiltrator would work against it.

Basically, as I see it, we are still very firmly in the "establish foundation" phase. We have an attention of several individuals and organizations that we would want to avoid, and we have a number of very varied stuff we need to do. So, there are two main routes for me:

[] All things Made Easy
-[] Boiling Sea Mastery, 4 XP
-[] Soul Rendering Practice, 8 XP
-[] Ox Body Technique X2, 3 XP X 2 = 6 XP
-[] Allies/ Followers (Cyberdevils), 6 XP
-[] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton, 6 XP

This is built around, as the name states, "making all things easy". BSM is a universal easily exploitable difficulty lower. A combination of two Ox Body Techniques and Soul Rending Practice gets us free dice once per day at least, if we do SRP in our bleach bath. Hopefully two Ox bodies and difficulty lowers would let us role play the pain as not being that great. Viridian Legend Exoskeleton is for combat. Allies / Followers (Cyberdevils) gives us minions and protection against mundanes, as well as, probably a source of income. It could be substituted for Demonic Primacy of Essence for social rolls against creatures of darkness, but I am content on setting the "get minions from Chicago Underground" combination (Demonic Primacy of Essence, Mercy in Servitude, Transcendent Lord of Flies) next time we purchase charms.

This sacrifices flight, which I don't see as super essential right this moment.

[] All things made hard
-[] Shadow Spite Curse, 6 XP
-[] Endless Torment Emanation, 12 XP
-[] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton, 6 XP
-[] By Rage Recast: Flight, 6 XP

This is an opposite approach. Instead of buffing ourselves and making our actions easier, we instead concentrate on making those moving against us fail. This has a lot of variation, actually. There are variations of this. We could substitute Night Swallows Secrets for Endless Torment Emanation, freeing 3 points, which could be used for an Ox Body technique or Scar-Writ Saga Shield. That would be more of a stealth build. In fact, we could go all-in on stealth.

[] Ms Nobody
-[] Night Swallows Secrets, 9 XP
-[] Theft as Release, 4 XP
-[] Larceny 2 points, 5 XP
-[] Allies/ Followers (Cyberdevils), 6 XP
-[] Viridian Legend Exoskeleton, 6 XP

This is "they don't know you are here" charm combination. I consider Night Swallows Secrets to be essential if we are going to be hacking magical FBI. Because hacking something and someone discovering that you hacked something later is far worse than just not hacking something.

Theft as Release would allow us to steal evidence as needed, and it's also a superb anti-denarian charm.

Personally, I strongly favor "all things made easy" approach, as it is quite universal.
 
The target has to be in combat with you so line of sight is generally assumed, though if you get into an artillery fight with someone and can see them remotely than you can use the curse.
 
The target has to be in combat with you so line of sight is generally assumed, though if you get into an artillery fight with someone and can see them remotely than you can use the curse.
Wait, what? The text says:
Concentrating fully upon her target, the Infernal's player makes a Willpower roll against difficulty 7. If in combat, this is her action for the current turn.
This specifically means that the charm can be used outside of combat.
 
The target has to be in combat with you so line of sight is generally assumed, though if you get into an artillery fight with someone and can see them remotely than you can use the curse.
The target does not have to be in combat, as I read it.
It only says that using the Charm takes an action if you are in combat.

But one other thing, the E2 source for the Charm is Obvious, so we propably shouldn't be able to just make people fail like they would normally, it should have a visual effect that makes the curse obvious, like darkness clinging to the target.
 
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