Hmm.
The Spark of Life Merit would be a good one to get at some point.
The Spark of Life Merit would be a good one to get at some point.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
The concept of sympathetic magic is something Molly knows about IC, though she could not perform it as she is right now. Also given that she has seen Little Chicago she would know Dresden can cast it, though she would not know the specifics of how his paradigm works.
Necromancy is not an alternative source of power. Its an entire set of practices, some not all that related mechanically.
Dresden did not channel an alternative source of power to summon Sue. And calling up willing spirits of the dead for interrogation doesnt require channeling anything funky.
Mouse probably wont be here.
PI's dont get to keep lost children at their home with no adults available; thats what the police station is for.
Dresden ran into this in the Restoration of Faith short story, where the Astors were going to accuse him of kidnapping their daughter in spite of hiring him to find her.
The Carpenter residence benefits from "coincidences".
And the Carpenters are a white Catholic family with seven kids and good community standing.
Accusations that would crush Dresden will bounce off them like peanuts off a wall.
We are talking about the girl who was a magic user for two years, grew up with a Sword bearer, knew Dresden was a practicing wizard and still had never heard of the Seven Laws of Magic.
1)This is not the First Age, things have changed, and Molly is nowhere near done updating her knowledgebase.
And we are in no hurry
Wait for the expert who can actually perform the procedure.
2)This is not true. Its fifteen minutes from Dresden's home to the Carpenter home by WoG.
3)Mouse is a dog.
A Temple Dog, but he has no legal standing to control a kid.
4)The Carpenter residence is protected against random legal harassment, both by "coincidence", and because the full corporate weight of the Catholic Church can be brought to bear.
And Molly is not on the Feds radar like Dresden is.
Point of correction:
No they arent Merits. Yes, Humans CAN get them.
Thats what the Enhancements background is for in the Technocracy books.
Also, the Legendary Attributes Merit:
[ 5 ] Legendary Attributes ( Mage: The Ascension (Revised) -- Page 296 )
Your mage has a superhuman Attribute, something in which he has the potential to be greater than human. Although this Attribute isn't necessarily automatically better, the mage could potentially exceed the bounds of human ability. Such a gift is rare and precious, and many people with this capacity never even manage to fulfill their true potential.In your character's legendary Attribute, your character has the potential for a rating of six dots. Thus, your mage might have the Strength of Hercules or the Intelligence of Occam. This Merit doesn't confer such a rating automatically; it must still be purchased with Attribute points, Freebie Points, or Experience.
In addition to the potential for inhuman power, your character has some miraculous capability tied to that Attribute. A mage with legendary Stamina might have the ability to roll a soak against any form of damage, for instance, while a mage with legendary Wits might be able to shift his initiative category by one place in any given turn automatically. This power is generally automatic, and it's subject to the Storyteller's approval. Its potency varies with the character's actual Attribute rating, so a character with a legendary Stamina of 1 has a weak legendary power that might grow with time and experience. This Merit obviously has the potential for abuse, and it's not appropriate for all chronicles or characters.
Not commenting on whether it's a good idea or not, but if 5 dots in occult isn't enough to tell us what thaumaturgic links are and how they're generally used then it wouldn't have been worth the freebies.
There's got to be a point where we assume out of date doesn't mean that out of date or it nerfs the utility of occult as an ability in it's own right instead of simply being charm fodder into the ground.
I kinda strongly disagree here. You don't sacrifice the dead, you sacrifice the living. And even then, it doesn't directly translate to having necromantic skills, in the sense of "raising and commanding the dead bodies". Especially if the sacrifice worked via bargaining with something like outsiders for power, because in that case, the power bargained with would be doing the heavy lifting.
- Location
- Germany
Here's the newer version from Book of Secrets:
No supernatural aspect to the power until you actually reach 6 Dots.
And even then neither example names combat-relevant regeneration as an option.
As for the Enhancement Backround, here's what I found under biomods:
That's still not combat-relevant.
By everything I have found, to heal in combat-time you need to be a full supernatural being, like a Vampire spending his bloodpoints, a Mage casting Life-effects or similar things.
Necromancy is an alternative source of power, distinct from magic:
"Because necromancy embraces the power of death, just as magic embraces the power of life. And as magic can be twisted and perverted to cruel and destructive ends, necromancy can be turned upon its nature as well. Death can be warded off, as I did for the wounded man that night. Life can be served by that dark power, if one's will and purpose are strong. "
"Uh- huh," I said. "You got involved with the darkest and most corruptive, insanity-causing forces in the universe so that you could jump-start wounded bodies to life. "
"Uh- huh," I said. "You got involved with the darkest and most corruptive, insanity-causing forces in the universe so that you could jump-start wounded bodies to life. "
Additionally, Harry used Necromancy when raising Sue, after being speed taught by Lash how to do so, after this conversation. Him doing so, perverting the nature of necromancy to protect life rather than end it, is an implicit follow up to this very conversation earlier in the book.
The Enhancements background is the the result of magical modifications using very potent rotes or implanted Wonders.
@Alratan it is worth noting that the person speaking there is Harry who has a bit of a ideological stake in the idea that magic fundamentally serves life and necromancy is this other thing, that is not real mortal magic. The idea that the power of death and the power of life are fundamentally distinct is one that is very fitting to the ideology of the White Council, maybe not so much to reality, judging by the fact that both can be turned against their supposed nature so easily. Untaught baby warlocks routinely twist magic against itself so often that it is a administrative problem for the Council to find them all. Do baby necromancers accidentally heal all the time?
Kemmler: No, no no, you are supposed to kill him and raise his corpse, not heal his wounds!
Sounds a bit odd doesn't it? And yet if that is not the case you are left in the odd situation where necromancy holds to its nature 'to hurt', more than regular magic holds onto the nature of 'helping'. That would say some rather unfortunate things about the nature of the universe... unless it is not the nature of the universe at all, but the nature of the magicians who wield power.
Magic would then be less black and white and more a spectrum.
Kemmler: No, no no, you are supposed to kill him and raise his corpse, not heal his wounds!
Sounds a bit odd doesn't it? And yet if that is not the case you are left in the odd situation where necromancy holds to its nature 'to hurt', more than regular magic holds onto the nature of 'helping'. That would say some rather unfortunate things about the nature of the universe... unless it is not the nature of the universe at all, but the nature of the magicians who wield power.
Magic would then be less black and white and more a spectrum.
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It's not though. The person speaking in the first section is Kumori, an experienced necromancer, explaining why she learned necromancy, and that she turns necromancy against itself just as breaking the laws of magic turns magic against itself.
Necromancy doesn't seem to be a power that mortals naturally use, like magic is (as mortals are alive). It's a power that people with the talent for magic have to be consciously taught how to use, or learn from texts. As a result, I don't think there are baby necromancers like there are baby wizards.
This is what a skilled necromancer, Cowl's apprentice; has been taught about the nature of necromancy. And he apparently believes it to. What she says before that is:
"See, Kumori, you're sort of a puzzle," I said. "Because you're working with these necromancers. In fact, I'm willing to bet you aren't bad at necromancy yourself. But you went out of your way to save someone's life the other night, and that just doesn't jive with that crowd. "
"Doesn't it?" she said.
"No. They're killers. Good at it, but they're just killers. They wouldn't take a step out of their way to help someone else. But you went way the hell out of your way to help a stranger. It says that you aren't like them. "
She was silent for a moment more. Then she said, "Do you know why Cowl has made a study of necromancy? And why I have joined him?"
"No. "
"Doesn't it?" she said.
"No. They're killers. Good at it, but they're just killers. They wouldn't take a step out of their way to help someone else. But you went way the hell out of your way to help a stranger. It says that you aren't like them. "
She was silent for a moment more. Then she said, "Do you know why Cowl has made a study of necromancy? And why I have joined him?"
"No. "
They go on to say after the section Inquoted in my previous post:
She moved her hand, a sudden, slashing motion. "No. No, you idiot. Don't you see the potential here? The possibility to end death. "
"Uh. End death?"
"You will die," she said. "I will die. Cowl will die. Everyone now walking this tired old world knows but one solid, immutable fact. Their life will end. Yours. Mine. Everyone's. "
"Yeah," I said. "That's why they call us 'mortals. ' Because of the mortality. "
"Why?" she asked.
"What?"
"Why?" she repeated. "Why must we die?"
"Because that's the way it is," I said.
"Why must that be the way it is?" she said. "Why must we all live with that pain of separation? With horrible grief? With rage and loss and sorrow and vengeance ruling the lives of every soul beneath the sky? What if we could change it?"
"Change it," I said, my skepticism clear in my voice. "Change death. "
"Yes," she said.
"Just. . . poof. Make it go away. "
"Uh. End death?"
"You will die," she said. "I will die. Cowl will die. Everyone now walking this tired old world knows but one solid, immutable fact. Their life will end. Yours. Mine. Everyone's. "
"Yeah," I said. "That's why they call us 'mortals. ' Because of the mortality. "
"Why?" she asked.
"What?"
"Why?" she repeated. "Why must we die?"
"Because that's the way it is," I said.
"Why must that be the way it is?" she said. "Why must we all live with that pain of separation? With horrible grief? With rage and loss and sorrow and vengeance ruling the lives of every soul beneath the sky? What if we could change it?"
"Change it," I said, my skepticism clear in my voice. "Change death. "
"Yes," she said.
"Just. . . poof. Make it go away. "
They plan to use the energy of death to end death, fundamentally turning it against itself.
It's even consistent with the original Exalted which this is crossing over with, where Necromancy and Sorcery are fundamentally different things.
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Interestingly enough, this means that if we build our kingdom with "Endless Suffering", we could advertise and get lots of necromancers (and in general people seeking immortality) to move in.
Unfortunately, most necromancers don't want to turn necromancy against itself anymore than most wizards want to turn magic against itself.
Cowl and Kumori might indeed be interested though.
She is not speaking of necromancy as a fundamental force of death though, she is speaking of using the skillet in a counterintuitive way, like using digitalis as medicine even though it is a poison in high quantities. It is Harry who says: 'they plan to use the energy of death to end death'. He is the one who makes the jump to it being an inherent and not instrumental difference.
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Tell us what the thaumaturgical links are? Sure.
Tell us what works for a particular wizard's paradigm ? Thats where I have my current doubts, since we arent done updating ourselves with how the world currently works.
I mean, dont get me wrong. In extremis, we can probably make pretty good guesses about what works for who.
But this isnt extremis, neither of the girls are going anywhere, and we arent the person who would be working the magic anyway.
Dresden should be home in an hour, and can decide what he needs, or doesnt need.
1)You do sacrifice the dead.
Necromancers do it all the time, usually to themselves; the Corpsetaker gorged on a full set of Lecter-type ghosts to return herself to full power in Ghost Story. The Darkhallow was an attempt at mass sacrifice of the dead and living both.
Not all sapient sacrifices are necromancy, mind; Charity's cult leader was sacrificing followers to Siriothrax for power.
And the Reds killed a fuckton of people as prepwork for the Chitchen Itza ritual.
But many are.
2) Necromancy is a series of practices and philosophies with a unifying principle of transgression and exploitation of our fellow human beings.
Thats what differentiates it from Ectomancy, which also deals with the spirits of the dead and shares some of the same mechanics but is Laws-compliant, and Divination, which can call up undead spirits for information.
But is also Laws-compliant.
Dresden calling up the restless dead as weapons in the final showdown of Grave Peril didnt count as necromancy because he didnt coerce them. His eating Kravos' Nightmare whole to recover his own magic in the same book didnt count as necromancy either, because he was recovering his own power, not stealimg someone else's.
If he'd done it to some other spirit, it would have been necromancy.
His calling up Sue in Dead Beat was necromancy, but because Sue was nonsapient, he got a pass.
Its not a black and white thing, much as the White Council would prefer to treat it that way.
Im going to have to find the time to dig through M20, but Im sure I've seen something there before.
Nowhere in that quote does it say anything about necromancy and necromancers using a different power source, instead of just a different paradigm. Dresden didnt channel a different pool of power to reach through sixty five million years and animate Sue; we see him prep the ritual, we see the summon in use, and we see Bob pilot her.
We even have him talking:
I found my staff, picked it up, and walked to the Buffalo Bill exhibit. Butters got the candle, and then he and Mouse kept pace. I looked around for a second, then picked up a long, heavy-duty extension cord running from an outlet on the wall to power some lights on an exhibit in the center of the room. I jerked it clear at both ends and gathered it into a neat loop. Once I had it, I passed it to Butters.
"What are you doing?" he asked.
"Preparing," I said. "I found out about the Darkhallow."
Butters blinked. "You did? How?"
I grunted. "Magic."
"Okay," he said. "What did you learn?"
"That this isn't a rite. It's a big spell," I said. "It all depends on drawing together a ton of dark spiritual energy."
"Like what?" he asked.
"Like a lot of things. The necromantic energy around animated corpses and manifested shades. The predatory spirits of ancient hunters. All the fear that's been growing since last night. Plus, the past several years have seen some serious magical turbulence around Chicago. Kemmler's disciples can put that turbulence to work for them, too."
"Then what?"
"They gather it together and get it going in a big circle. It creates a kind of vortex, which then funnels down into whoever is trying to consume the energy. Poof. Insta-god."
He frowned. "I'm not very clued in on this magic stuff, but that sounds kind of dangerous."
"Hell, yeah," I said, and crossed the room to a rack of riding equipment. "It's like trying to inhale a tornado."
"Holy crap," Butters said. "But how does that help us?"
"First of all, I found out that the vortex itself is deadly. It's going to draw off the life of every living thing around it."
Butters gulped. "It will kill everything?"
"Not at first. But when the wizard at the vortex draws down the power, it's going to create a kind of vacuum where all that power used to be. The vacuum will rip away the life energy of everything within a mile."
"Dear God. That will kill thousands of people."
"Only if they finish the spell," I said. "Until then, the farther back you are from it, the less it will do," I said. "But to get near the vortex, the only way to survive it is to surround yourself with necromantic energy of your own."
"Only those with ghosts or zombies need apply?" he asked.
"Exactly." I lifted a saddle from the rack. Then I got a second one. I hung both over opposite ends of my staff, and picked it up like a plowman's yoke, the saddles hanging. I started walking down the stairs.
"But wait," Butters said. "What are you going to do?"
"Get to the center of the vortex," I said. "The effort it will take to work this spell is incredible. I don't care how good Cowl is. If I hit him as he tries to draw down the vortex, it's going to shake his concentration. The spell will be ruined. The backlash will kill him."
"And everyone will be all right?" he asked.
"That's the plan."
He nodded and then stopped abruptly in his tracks. I felt his stare burning into my back.
"But, Harry. To get there you'll have to call up the dead yourself."
I stopped and looked over my shoulder at him.
Comprehension dawned in his eyes. "And you need a drummer."
"Yeah."
He swallowed. "Could… could you get in trouble with your people for doing this?"
"It's possible," I said. "But there's a technicality I can exploit."
"What do you mean?"
"The Laws of Magic specifically refer to the abuse of magic when used against our fellow human beings. Technically it only counts if you call up human corpses."
"But you told me that everyone only calls humans."
"Right. So while the Laws of Magic only address necromancy as used on human corpses, there usually isn't any need for a distinction. Nutty necromancers only call up humans. Sane wizards don't touch necromancy at all. I don't think anyone has tried something like this."
We reached the main level of the museum.
"It's going to be dangerous," I told him. "I think we can do it, but I can't make you any promises. I don't know if I can protect you."
Butters walked beside me for several steps, his expression serious. "You can't try it without someone's help. And if you don't stop it, the spell will kill thousands of people."
"Yes," I said. "But I can't order you to help me. I can only ask."
He licked his lips. "I can keep a beat," he said.
I nodded and reached my destination. I slipped my improvised yoke off my shoulders and dropped both saddles to the floor. My breathing was a little harsh from the effort, even though I barely noticed the pain and strain. "You'll need a drum."
Butters nodded. "There were some tom-toms upstairs. I'll go get one."
I shook my head. "Too high-pitched. Your polka suit is still in the Beetle's trunk, right?"
"Yes."
I nodded. Then I looked up. And up. And up. Another flash of lightning illuminated the pale, towering terror of Sue, the most complete Tyrannosaurus skeleton mankind has ever discovered.
"Okay, Butters." I told him. "Go get it."
"What are you doing?" he asked.
"Preparing," I said. "I found out about the Darkhallow."
Butters blinked. "You did? How?"
I grunted. "Magic."
"Okay," he said. "What did you learn?"
"That this isn't a rite. It's a big spell," I said. "It all depends on drawing together a ton of dark spiritual energy."
"Like what?" he asked.
"Like a lot of things. The necromantic energy around animated corpses and manifested shades. The predatory spirits of ancient hunters. All the fear that's been growing since last night. Plus, the past several years have seen some serious magical turbulence around Chicago. Kemmler's disciples can put that turbulence to work for them, too."
"Then what?"
"They gather it together and get it going in a big circle. It creates a kind of vortex, which then funnels down into whoever is trying to consume the energy. Poof. Insta-god."
He frowned. "I'm not very clued in on this magic stuff, but that sounds kind of dangerous."
"Hell, yeah," I said, and crossed the room to a rack of riding equipment. "It's like trying to inhale a tornado."
"Holy crap," Butters said. "But how does that help us?"
"First of all, I found out that the vortex itself is deadly. It's going to draw off the life of every living thing around it."
Butters gulped. "It will kill everything?"
"Not at first. But when the wizard at the vortex draws down the power, it's going to create a kind of vacuum where all that power used to be. The vacuum will rip away the life energy of everything within a mile."
"Dear God. That will kill thousands of people."
"Only if they finish the spell," I said. "Until then, the farther back you are from it, the less it will do," I said. "But to get near the vortex, the only way to survive it is to surround yourself with necromantic energy of your own."
"Only those with ghosts or zombies need apply?" he asked.
"Exactly." I lifted a saddle from the rack. Then I got a second one. I hung both over opposite ends of my staff, and picked it up like a plowman's yoke, the saddles hanging. I started walking down the stairs.
"But wait," Butters said. "What are you going to do?"
"Get to the center of the vortex," I said. "The effort it will take to work this spell is incredible. I don't care how good Cowl is. If I hit him as he tries to draw down the vortex, it's going to shake his concentration. The spell will be ruined. The backlash will kill him."
"And everyone will be all right?" he asked.
"That's the plan."
He nodded and then stopped abruptly in his tracks. I felt his stare burning into my back.
"But, Harry. To get there you'll have to call up the dead yourself."
I stopped and looked over my shoulder at him.
Comprehension dawned in his eyes. "And you need a drummer."
"Yeah."
He swallowed. "Could… could you get in trouble with your people for doing this?"
"It's possible," I said. "But there's a technicality I can exploit."
"What do you mean?"
"The Laws of Magic specifically refer to the abuse of magic when used against our fellow human beings. Technically it only counts if you call up human corpses."
"But you told me that everyone only calls humans."
"Right. So while the Laws of Magic only address necromancy as used on human corpses, there usually isn't any need for a distinction. Nutty necromancers only call up humans. Sane wizards don't touch necromancy at all. I don't think anyone has tried something like this."
We reached the main level of the museum.
"It's going to be dangerous," I told him. "I think we can do it, but I can't make you any promises. I don't know if I can protect you."
Butters walked beside me for several steps, his expression serious. "You can't try it without someone's help. And if you don't stop it, the spell will kill thousands of people."
"Yes," I said. "But I can't order you to help me. I can only ask."
He licked his lips. "I can keep a beat," he said.
I nodded and reached my destination. I slipped my improvised yoke off my shoulders and dropped both saddles to the floor. My breathing was a little harsh from the effort, even though I barely noticed the pain and strain. "You'll need a drum."
Butters nodded. "There were some tom-toms upstairs. I'll go get one."
I shook my head. "Too high-pitched. Your polka suit is still in the Beetle's trunk, right?"
"Yes."
I nodded. Then I looked up. And up. And up. Another flash of lightning illuminated the pale, towering terror of Sue, the most complete Tyrannosaurus skeleton mankind has ever discovered.
"Okay, Butters." I told him. "Go get it."
I didn't know this before, but as it turns out, Tyrannosaurs can really haul ass.
She might have been as long as a city bus, but Sue, despite her weight, moved with power and grace. As I'd called forth energy-charged ectoplasm to clothe the ancient bones, they had become covered in sheets of muscle and a hide of heavy, surprisingly supple quasi-flesh. She was dark grey, and there was a ripple pattern of black along her head, back, and flanks, almost like that of a jaguar. And once I had shaped the vessel, I had reached out and found the ancient spirit of the predator that had animated it in life.
Animals might not have the potential power of human remains. But the older the remains, the more magic can be drawn to fill them-and Sue was sixty-five million years old.
She had power. She had power in spades.
I had rigged the saddles to straddle her spine, just at the bend where neck joined body. I'd had to improvise to get them around her, using the long extension cords to tie them into place, and it had been ticklish as hell to get Butters on board without him losing the beat and destroying my control of the dinozombie. But Butters had pulled through.
Sue bellowed out a basso shriek that rattled nearby buildings and broke a few windows as she hurtled forward down the streets of the city. The blinding rain and savage storm had left the streets all but deserted, but even so, there were earthquakes less noticeable than a freaking Tyrannosaur. The streets literally shook under her feet. In fact, we left acres of strained, cracked asphalt behind us.
Here's something else I bet you didn't know about Tyrannosaurs: they don't corner well. The first time I tried to take a left, Sue swung wide, the enormous momentum of her body simply too much for even her muscles to lightly command. She swung up onto the sidewalk, crushed three parked cars under her feet, knocked over two light poles, kicked a compact car end over end to land on its roof, and broke every window on the first two floors of the building beside us as her tail lashed back and forth in an effort to counterbalance her body.
"Oh, my God!" Butters screamed. He kept hanging on to me with his arms, stabbing his legs out alternately to either side in order to operate the bass drum strapped on his back.
"They're probably insured!" I shouted. Thank God the streets weren't crowded that night. I made a note to be sure to have Sue slow down a little before we turned again, and kept the focus of my will on her, her attention on the task at hand.
Just before we turned onto Lake Shore Drive we hit a National Guard checkpoint. There were a couple of army Hummers there, their headlights casting useless cones of light into the night and storm, wooden roadblocks, and two luckless GIs in rain ponchos. As Sue bore down on them, the two men stared, their faces white. One of them simply dropped his assault rifle from numb hands.
"Get out of the way, fools!" I screamed.
The two men dove for cover. Sue's foot crashed down onto the hood of one Hummer, crushing it to the asphalt, and then we were past the checkpoint and pounding our way down the street toward Evanston.
"Heh," I said, looking back over my shoulder. "I'd love to hear how they explain that to their CO."
"You crushed that truck!" Butters shouted. "You're like a human wrecking ball!" There was a thoughtful pause, and then he said, "Hey, are we going anywhere near my boss's place? Because he just won't shut up about his new Jaguar."
"Maybe later. For now, look sharp," I told him. "She's a lot faster than I thought. We'll be there in just a minute." I ducked under the corner of a billboard as Sue went by it. "Whatever you do, keep that drumbeat going. Do you understand?"
"Right," Butters said. "If I stop, no more dinosaur."
"No," I called back. "If you stop, the dinosaur does whatever the hell it wants to."
Shouts rose up from a side street where a couple more guardsmen saw us go by. Sue turned her head toward them and let out another challenging bellow that broke more windows and startled the guardsmen so much that they fell down. I felt a surge of simple, enormous hunger run through the beast I'd called up, as though the ancient animus I'd summoned from the spirit world was beginning to remember the finer things in life. I touched Sue's neck again, sending a surge of my will down into her, jerking her head back around with a rumbling cough of protest.
My ears rang in the wake of that vast sound, and I glanced over my shoulder to make sure Butters was okay. His face was pale.
"If this thing gets loose," he said. "That would be bad."
"Which is why you shouldn't stop the drum," I told him. If Sue went wild, I could scarcely imagine the potential carnage she could inflict. I mean, good grief. Look at all the senseless victims of Jurassic Park II.
She might have been as long as a city bus, but Sue, despite her weight, moved with power and grace. As I'd called forth energy-charged ectoplasm to clothe the ancient bones, they had become covered in sheets of muscle and a hide of heavy, surprisingly supple quasi-flesh. She was dark grey, and there was a ripple pattern of black along her head, back, and flanks, almost like that of a jaguar. And once I had shaped the vessel, I had reached out and found the ancient spirit of the predator that had animated it in life.
Animals might not have the potential power of human remains. But the older the remains, the more magic can be drawn to fill them-and Sue was sixty-five million years old.
She had power. She had power in spades.
I had rigged the saddles to straddle her spine, just at the bend where neck joined body. I'd had to improvise to get them around her, using the long extension cords to tie them into place, and it had been ticklish as hell to get Butters on board without him losing the beat and destroying my control of the dinozombie. But Butters had pulled through.
Sue bellowed out a basso shriek that rattled nearby buildings and broke a few windows as she hurtled forward down the streets of the city. The blinding rain and savage storm had left the streets all but deserted, but even so, there were earthquakes less noticeable than a freaking Tyrannosaur. The streets literally shook under her feet. In fact, we left acres of strained, cracked asphalt behind us.
Here's something else I bet you didn't know about Tyrannosaurs: they don't corner well. The first time I tried to take a left, Sue swung wide, the enormous momentum of her body simply too much for even her muscles to lightly command. She swung up onto the sidewalk, crushed three parked cars under her feet, knocked over two light poles, kicked a compact car end over end to land on its roof, and broke every window on the first two floors of the building beside us as her tail lashed back and forth in an effort to counterbalance her body.
"Oh, my God!" Butters screamed. He kept hanging on to me with his arms, stabbing his legs out alternately to either side in order to operate the bass drum strapped on his back.
"They're probably insured!" I shouted. Thank God the streets weren't crowded that night. I made a note to be sure to have Sue slow down a little before we turned again, and kept the focus of my will on her, her attention on the task at hand.
Just before we turned onto Lake Shore Drive we hit a National Guard checkpoint. There were a couple of army Hummers there, their headlights casting useless cones of light into the night and storm, wooden roadblocks, and two luckless GIs in rain ponchos. As Sue bore down on them, the two men stared, their faces white. One of them simply dropped his assault rifle from numb hands.
"Get out of the way, fools!" I screamed.
The two men dove for cover. Sue's foot crashed down onto the hood of one Hummer, crushing it to the asphalt, and then we were past the checkpoint and pounding our way down the street toward Evanston.
"Heh," I said, looking back over my shoulder. "I'd love to hear how they explain that to their CO."
"You crushed that truck!" Butters shouted. "You're like a human wrecking ball!" There was a thoughtful pause, and then he said, "Hey, are we going anywhere near my boss's place? Because he just won't shut up about his new Jaguar."
"Maybe later. For now, look sharp," I told him. "She's a lot faster than I thought. We'll be there in just a minute." I ducked under the corner of a billboard as Sue went by it. "Whatever you do, keep that drumbeat going. Do you understand?"
"Right," Butters said. "If I stop, no more dinosaur."
"No," I called back. "If you stop, the dinosaur does whatever the hell it wants to."
Shouts rose up from a side street where a couple more guardsmen saw us go by. Sue turned her head toward them and let out another challenging bellow that broke more windows and startled the guardsmen so much that they fell down. I felt a surge of simple, enormous hunger run through the beast I'd called up, as though the ancient animus I'd summoned from the spirit world was beginning to remember the finer things in life. I touched Sue's neck again, sending a surge of my will down into her, jerking her head back around with a rumbling cough of protest.
My ears rang in the wake of that vast sound, and I glanced over my shoulder to make sure Butters was okay. His face was pale.
"If this thing gets loose," he said. "That would be bad."
"Which is why you shouldn't stop the drum," I told him. If Sue went wild, I could scarcely imagine the potential carnage she could inflict. I mean, good grief. Look at all the senseless victims of Jurassic Park II.
Ethniu showing up with the Eye of Balor? Still magic. The loup garou transforming into a killing machine of death? Still magic.
The Fallen working wonders of ritual and evocation? Still magic.
The Blampires showing up at the graveyard? Still magic. All drawing from the same pool.
The Outsiders are the one OCP that hasnt been explained though.
Yes. Available to humans.
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- washington
in fairness we are unsure cowls exact motivations that could be a ruse or maybe not or there could be multiple goals. Heck it could of even been their goal and now they are nemesis infected and they just play up that goal with allies and its not really cowl anymore.
She does though. She says that Necomancy uses the power of death and magic uses the power of life.
In several places in the books it's described how magic is/uses the power of life and that the backlash from using magic in ways that break the laws is because it because it's antithetical to the inherent nature of the power of life.
As the power of life is an actual thing that powers magic, when it's directly compared to the power of death being a thing that necromancy uses it makes most sense that the power of death is also an actual thing.
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Harry certainly seems to believe that when you 'sin' against magic you suffer the consequences (he does compare his belief in magic to a faith himself so I think that is a fair representation) but that concept that magic externally twists you for misusing it does not quite jive with some things we we know about Black Magic. For instance there is the lady in Las Vegas who got cured of her own Black Magic induced psychosis by the addiction to Red Court venom. So... vampire spit absolution?
I do not think this is the case, I think the issue is more elegantly encapsulated in 'the more you bend others the more you are bent'. When you use magic to do certain things it makes you better at doing them, that is why the RPG has the Lawbreaker 'perks'. That would apply to things like killing vampires or binding the fey. But none of those things are socially unacceptable.
Also worth pointing out:
We dont know who or what Kumori is, or from what knowledge or authority she speaks, and so we dont know what significance to ascribe anything she says. Or if she was telling the plain truth instead of shading it to manipulate the only WC wizard in the city.
Its not like she would have been the only one; Grevane, Corpsetaker and Cowl all try the same thing in the same book.
Cowl is a pretty obvious heavy hitter from IC feats; everything from shutting down Chicago's power to shrugging off a car.
The only halfway impressive thing Kumori does is temporarily delay a dude's death long enough for his physical injuries to be fixed.
She could well be hiding her power level, mind.
One thing @uju32 I'd say that necromancy is just about transgression of death and not necessarily exploitation. Kumori was not exploiting anyone when she saved that man's life, but she was still doing necromancy as she was bending death in unnatural ways. It's just that most of the ways you can bend death are also exploitative.
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one thing to note about dresden file magic to do something you have to believe it jim butcher says about 90% of mortal magic is mental (not mind magic) so for example to kill a human with magic you have to truly believe its the right thing to do and that has knock off affects.
Note this is very simplified and there is obviously a lot more to it known and still unknown it is something thats wog though.
Note this is very simplified and there is obviously a lot more to it known and still unknown it is something thats wog though.
A potential counter argument is that Kumori didnt offer the dude a choice about coming back, something Uriel did.
Or that she was exploiting the circumstances of his death in an attempt to manipulate Dresden.
Also bringing someone back two days before the Darkhallow you were working towards was due to kill a good chunk of Chicago outright did not actually serve any useful purpose to the victim.
And Dresdenverse magic pays significant attention to intent.
But honestly we know too little about Kumori for me to make judgements about her motivations.
We know a lot more about her associates than her.
There are rules to this, and while they can be more flexible than physical laws they aren't subjective. Blood, hair, cherished possessions/heirlooms, family members, stuff like that are all universal links with variable levels of difficulty in use.
In need of an update or not occult 5 should tell us more about what magic can do in detail than pop culture can. If the update thing is going to be that big of a deal then we should have been capped on what we could buy, or capped on what we can actually use.
I don't think you can judge spells in a broader concept like that. When you ask the question. 'Does preventing someone from dying count as exploitative' you do not ask where he is or where he might be in a few days. After all for all we know that one guy could have been by helicopter before the Darkhallow could fire. Would that retroactively make it not necromancy?
As for the free will while that is relevant to angels and immortals applying it to mortal magic gets you some odd results. Would healing someone unconscious and lethally wounded without specifically asking him if they want to be healed count as changing the character of the magic? The only difference between preventing death and healing and just healing is that you are transgressing against mortality.
The temptation one might be true though I am wary of it being unfalsifiable because it is so broad.
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We'll have to agree to disagree here.
1)With Dresdenverse magic being so big on intent, I think you have to.
In most random encounters it wouldnt be an issue. But if you and your allies are planning to kill everyone in a geographic area in the next two days for magical power, and have already been party to a mass shutdown of technology, including medical technology, which is likely to contribute to increased death rates in the city hospital system?
I think its fair to question whether your doing necromantic first aid on a random casualty is actually supposed to help the dude, or just a flex aimed at some purpose of your own, with any actual good being incidental.
2)The presumption(I think) with healing someone unconscious and dying is that you cant afford to take the time to ask.
Someone who is already dead you can afford to ask.
If you didnt, then its because you didnt want to.
Thats my reasoning, not anything stated by the author. So take that with the customary seasoning of salt.
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