Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Its not mentioned because its both tacky and time consuming to adjudicate right this moment.
Not to mention potentially insulting if the elemental chooses to look at it as a gift and mark of its generosity towards someone its hoping to cultivate as a friend/ally instead of a business transaction, and you then offered payment.

Sometimes favors are just favors that people remember and repay in kind down the line.

We havent formally acknowledged debt for Harry Dresden bailing us out during the Splattercon events.
Or for coming to rescue us from Splattercon, or running interferemce with the White Council. Or saving little Harry's life from Kravos, or his sanity from Lasciel. It doesnt mean the debt doesnt exist.

We arent Fae. Neither is the entity we are currently dealing with.
Not everything has to be boiled down to immediate numbers and calculated measures of value, and certainly not immediately.

EDIT
Maybe its a cultural thing. But this is not something that demands immediate adjudication.
Its part of the soft exchange of favors that lubricate society among the non-fae.
The fae have their own rules.
I'm not saying go into details right this minute, which is why the modification I made to your vote give a fairly generic while still defining scope and category for the payment.

We don't know this guy really; he isn't our friend, business partner, or subordinate. Soft favor trading is a bad plan with a stranger. Especially one who shares as little in common with us as this one; it's better to be explicit to avoid complications.

The little interactions that grease the wheels of society are context based, and we haven't established much common ground with him yet.

A one sentence acknowledgement of the bill that confines the sort of favor owed isn't going to break our time table.
 
The problem is that the Capriocorpus may well directly profit* or at least be able to escape being thrown into the Hell of Being Skinned Alive.

And seeing as it has managed to retain its necromantic powers after being killed, I've no desire at all to see what she ends up becoming if she passes the test to become a Wan Kuei by escaping a hell. Sure, normally, mages that become Hungry Dead don't retain their powers, but neither do mages that become wraiths, and we've seen that in Dresdenverse turned wizards can develop particularly strong magical talents if they become Black Court or the Red Court vampire parasite consumes and becomes them.

* if she's Nemesis possessed, her infecting a Yama King could be very bad.
I agree with most of this the chances Yama kings haven't got some nemesis infected in their hells in all this time is very very unlikely though.

Well good chances at least one Yama king is nemesis infected by now though. I don't see any way they don't have some in their hells by now.
 
We have a ruling that flaying souls/spirits for essence obliterates them instead of damning them, so I don't think we need to worry about that.

Even if we did, there are a couple of factors to consider. The first being that the essence we take would need to be coming from the spirit, so it should arrive weakened and hurt. Making corpsetaker easy pickings for the demons.

There's also the fact that manipulating souls and energies related to mortal death shouldn't be a surprising trick for people in the afterlife business, I'd expect her advantages to be curtailed once she's out of the mortal world to a significant degree.

Finally, there's the possibility that the thousand hells have been on a barely existent trickle of new souls since the white god changed the game, in a similar way that Hades basically was. Even weakened a necromancer of that stature could still be among the highest quality fresh meat they've had in a long time.

Getting special attention from the start would make escape much more difficult. Even if she did get out, we could always damn corpsetaker again, which I suspect they'd be very eager to avoid.

Edit: actually, I can't find the post I thought that ruling was in. To be safe. @DragonParadox how are you ruling murder is meat works?
I'll note souls probably do go to hell still based off choices well maybe it really depends what we learn later on. Also word of Jim Lucifer does not rule hell he's more like a corporate officer in a vast corporation compared to hades ceo of a small business. So there are decent chances the hells themselves are all small parts of said corporation.
 
I'll note souls probably do go to hell still based off choices well maybe it really depends what we learn later on. Also word of Jim Lucifer does not rule hell he's more like a corporate officer in a vast corporation compared to hades ceo of a small business. So there are decent chances the hells themselves are all small parts of said corporation.
The hells I'm referring to there are the thousand hells of the Yama Kings, which fall into the same category as Hades does. They're part of a defunct afterlife system, and are probably only tangentially related to the Fallen's Hell.
 
The hells I'm referring to there are the thousand hells of the Yama Kings, which fall into the same category as Hades does. They're part of a defunct afterlife system, and are probably only tangentially related to the Fallen's Hell.
I mean not sure how you can say this. lucifer is the fallens boss yet hes only word of jim a corporate officer whats to say the thousand hells aren't just a part of it? Given probably not since dp isn't exactly using jims word of god in quest at least most of the time. Which yeah its a quest so fair enough.

Also why do you say defunct? they can still be active even with the white god.
 
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I'm not saying go into details right this minute, which is why the modification I made to your vote give a fairly generic while still defining scope and category for the payment. We don't know this guy really; he isn't our friend, business partner, or subordinate. Soft favor trading is a bad plan with a stranger. Especially one who shares as little in common with us as this one; it's better to be explicit to avoid complications.

The little interactions that grease the wheels of society are context based, and we haven't established much common ground with him yet. A one sentence acknowledgement of the bill that confines the sort of favor owed isn't going to break our time table.
Sorry this is late, but there are a couple realizations I made that I have to share;
■■■■■■■■■■■■■
1) We have a relationship with this dude; we've had one since we made the oral deal to fix up the Last Station.

This dude was willing to take our word for 8AP worth of labor and refurbishment. To put this in perspective, we get 6AP in a month.
Doing the math: 8 AP worth of construction work represents roughly five to six weeks of uninterrupted labor from Molly, who has Tool Constructs for a x10 speed multiplier.

From any other person without a speed multiplier, this would represent 50-60 weeks of construction.
Over a year's worth of labor, not to mention the costs of the construction equipment that Tool Constructs obviates, and possibly material costs as well, since Molly can recycle materials that normal construction workers would have to discard and order anew.

In real world terms, this is a seven or eight figure construction project, decided on terms very favorable to our elemental.
Thats what was decided on a figurative handshake.
And dude expects us to keep it, based on their perception of our magic presence.

So yeah, very solid expression of trust there.


2) This gives further perspective to everything else he/she/it has done.
The deal we made has very favorable terms to our elemental here, and they know it. Proto-DragonsNest or not, actually doing anything with the place is beyond its capabilities and resources before we showed up. Let alone then defending it.

Getting us out is the equivalent of your coach picking up the check at a business dinner where you signed Lebron James to your club. Compared to the size of the deal its already made with us, this is going to be too small to be worth a formal deal.



3)There are multiple people here that it might not want to talk in front of.
Michael works for the White God, and archangels have Intellectus. But he's not the only one here.

Gard reports to Marcone and Odin.
Cindy to her grandad. Lydia to her father and indirectly to Winter, plus she's potentially vulnerable to the Capriocorpus yanking shit out of her head.
 
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 18, 2022 at 1:09 AM, finished with 95 posts and 26 votes.

  • [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Check everyone for possession, including Cindy
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Have Michael check and Gard doublecheck everyone for possession or anything else
    -[X] Thank the elemental, affirm your agreement, and ask it to get you to an Undertown exit. Empathy Excellency -1 Essence
    -[X] Have Gard call Hendricks for pickup once you have cell service. Take everyone home to Casa Carpenter.
    -[X] HMP on Lydia's phone. Look for items of potential relevance and her father's phone number. -1 Essence
    -[X] Contact, in order, Father Forthill to find out the progress of things with Dresden, then Lydia's father
    -[X] Clorox bath soak for an hour 45 minutes
    -[X] Keep updated on Kattrin's car's movements
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Have Michael check and Gard doublecheck everyone for possession or anything else
    -[X] Thank the elemental, affirm your agreement, and ask it to get you to an Undertown exit. Empathy Excellency -1 Essence
    —[X] Offer to craft one high quality mundane personal item at a later date in exchange for this service.
    -[X] Have Gard call Hendricks for pickup once you have cell service. Take everyone home to Casa Carpenter.
    -[X] HMP on Lydia's phone. Look for items of potential relevance and her father's phone number. -1 Essence
    -[X] Contact, in order, Father Forthill to find out the progress of things with Dresden, then Lydia's father
    -[X] Clorox bath soak for an hour 45 minutes
    -[X] Keep updated on Kattrin's car's movements
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Check everyone for possession, including Cindy
    -[X] Ask Dad to try for one more round of exorcism, this time to ease the passing of all these ghosts
 
I'm gonna note those who've voted unless some more vote for ujus plan we are probably gonna have to have another turn to do the clorox stuff and dresden stuff instead of just doing it if people don't change votes or something.

Also yeah long term what defenses do we want in this place? I want minions in it, I want wards on it, I hope we can get a threshold on it, I want it to be defensible, I want it to have guns, What else would be nice? I figure some of our own magic or charms that have long term affects?
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 18, 2022 at 4:27 AM, finished with 97 posts and 26 votes.

  • [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Check everyone for possession, including Cindy
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Have Michael check and Gard doublecheck everyone for possession or anything else
    -[X] Thank the elemental, affirm your agreement, and ask it to get you to an Undertown exit. Empathy Excellency -1 Essence
    -[X] Have Gard call Hendricks for pickup once you have cell service. Take everyone home to Casa Carpenter.
    -[X] HMP on Lydia's phone. Look for items of potential relevance and her father's phone number. -1 Essence
    -[X] Contact, in order, Father Forthill to find out the progress of things with Dresden, then Lydia's father
    -[X] Clorox bath soak for an hour 45 minutes
    -[X] Keep updated on Kattrin's car's movements
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Have Michael check and Gard doublecheck everyone for possession or anything else
    -[X] Thank the elemental, affirm your agreement, and ask it to get you to an Undertown exit. Empathy Excellency -1 Essence
    —[X] Offer to craft one high quality mundane personal item at a later date in exchange for this service.
    -[X] Have Gard call Hendricks for pickup once you have cell service. Take everyone home to Casa Carpenter.
    -[X] HMP on Lydia's phone. Look for items of potential relevance and her father's phone number. -1 Essence
    -[X] Contact, in order, Father Forthill to find out the progress of things with Dresden, then Lydia's father
    -[X] Clorox bath soak for an hour 45 minutes
    -[X] Keep updated on Kattrin's car's movements
    [X] Agree that it's more important to get everyone to safety
    -[X] Check everyone for possession, including Cindy
    -[X] Ask Dad to try for one more round of exorcism, this time to ease the passing of all these ghosts
 
So yeah, very solid expression of trust there.
1) More like a very solid expression of a difference in perspective; either in the worth of a promise, the worth of the work, or both. A relationship isn't one interaction, and context can't be established in one 15 minute encounter.

This is why I wanted to be explicit. Our common understanding is limited.


2) Again, context is key. These are things are established by shared culture; business between humans of different backgrounds can get bit by these sorts of issues if you try doing business internationally without taking into account what everyone's underlying assumptions are first. In the absence of certainty, being explicit is necessary.

For all you know, this guy is larping as a subway and would expect token payment for any trip. With the first being so pricy because he was taking us to a store brand demigod possessed by an undead necromancer.


3) Having reasons to not share information with us just reinforces the point that we don't know that much about him. The reason is less relevant than the ignorance.
 
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