Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] uju32

I guess uju's plan is slightly better to have a confrontation soon.
Goldfish's plan will make us unable to track Kattrin and might even derail her plan to come down here completly, if she first has to go somewhere else to heal.
 
[X] uju32

@DragonParadox , and what about writing the remaining essence when the essence change (I mean something like "Gain 2 Essence. 7/12 total")? It would be much more convinient this way.
 
And it's so much easier to plan when we all know how much essence is in the tank. Nobody wants to fight Katrina when we're running on empty, after all.
 
[X] Black Rider Will Ride Again!

Just noting that with an engineered crash that spins the car sideways right before impact, there's not much passive protection. If we have the drivers door be the point which impacts something like a bridge support pillar, and have the window open at that time we could directly impale her.
 
[X] uju32
@uju32
I'd suggest integrating a prayer into the stunt, as Molly 'is' a devote Christian, though not to her father's level. Even a simple plea for help to herself.
Before combat yes. Right now, I dont think she has the same sense of impending mortality.

So what exactly is the follow up here?
We run away and pick up Lydia, trying to stay ahead of Kat.
My preferred followup?
Would be to find Lydia, get both Cindy and her to an exit point, and call Hendricks for a pickup, or even a mundane taxi.
Thats why I included the attempt to have Bunny send updates to Hendricks phone.

If Holt is pursuing along our trail, we hand off to Hendricks and lay ambush around the exit.
Have her come to us and have the fight underground with no witnesses.
And Gard can dispose of the body and/or prisoner.

If she goes back to her car to pursue Cindy's trail, we have Hendricks divert to somewhere without at-risk civilians.
The Ankou's rented estate(it had a driveway, its an estate) might be enough out of the way that we can cut loose, and it does have to have defenses for civilians like his daughter.

If she gives it up as a bad gig and goes back to her base, we use Black Rider to track her down and hit her there.
Necromantic ritual is unlikely to be in the middle of a high traffic area.
Not on a Saturday.


Gard is still a Valkyrie, and has death vision, Kat was kicked out of the office.
Having seer powers doesn't mean she got an entire new form of intellectus. Being flexible doesn't mean she can run powerful divinations from the side of the road.
Getting cliff notes for what's going to happen next week by augury is plenty powerful to name one example.
Betraying your sisters and no longer working for Odin does not imply losing the powers you acquired as a Valkyrie.
If that was how it worked, Kattrin's entire plan with the Ankou would be doomed to failure because Mab would be able to simply lolno any such unauthorized power transfer. Or rescind it.

The fact that she's here, now, trying to nom the Ankou suggests she has experience that she has good reason to believe it cant simply be taken away.

The point about her being a seer is that there's a good chance she has already run that augury.
And nothing that has happened so far has been out of the expected, because Molly's activities havent directly impinged on them.
So if she expects someone to be somewhere and we dont interfere, they'll probably be there.


You're mixing up applications.
She kidnaps people by warping their perceptions, but that doesn't actually stop time. Hitting things while frozen breaks them out, even if it's just an object doing it. Which is why buzzers counter the ability.

It's magic but it's not a charm. That spell lets her freeze time, not selectively play with her physical reference frame. That would be a very different power with very different combat implications that Gard would have mentioned.

As far as I can see, she can't just selectively halt parts of how something interacts with the world. Either it's frozen in time or it isn't. If she didn't freeze herself then she's still subject to regular physics.

If she does freeze herself, then when she unfreezes she's back to doing what she was before. In this case moving 90mph in the direction of traffic.
Hitting people timelocked by Holt breaks them out.
We have no idea about objects, or how it affects Kattrin herself.

Kidnapping people in broad daylight requires that you warp time in an area, else you might well have
There is no way to grab a teenager off the street without touching them and by your explanation breaking any time magic.
Yet here Cindy seems oblivious about how she got here.

Gard's information on Kattrin is based on combat observation and what Odin's spy network picked up.
Odin's good, but he isnt perfect; Gard says upfront that they lost track of Holt in the late 1980s.
I have been using it as a baseline, not a hard cap.




This is not cold blooded murder. It's preemptive defense of self and others against a 1,000+ year old supernatural monster that has performed multiple Human sacrifices, participated in who knows how many murders and other atrocities, is among the leaders of a faction of Nazi warlocks, and kidnapped a child to blackmail her grandfather into participating in what appears to be yet another sacrificial ritual, one intended to make her an even bigger monster, if a pretty one.

If trying to pull off a long-range kill against the deadly sorceress who can manipulate time to her will and is even now coming here to re-kidnap Cindy is what causes Michael to forsake us, then it's better we go ahead and get that out of the way now.
There's no such thing as preemptive defense in any legal framework Im aware of.
If you lie in wait for John Wayne Gacy and attempt to kill him out of hand, thats still cold blooded premeditated murder even though he is a serial killer. You might have an argument to justification, but it doesnt change what it is.

Furthermore, its worth paying attention to the caliber of people we're playing with.

Dresden did not execute Quintus Cassius out of hand in Death Masks, despite the dude being a Denarian dating back to the Roman Empire, who had been involved in the torture-murders of Father Vincent and Shiro, had tried to kill him personally via entropy curse, and was trying to instigate a magic pandemic. Only when the dude came back in Dead Beat and repeatedly tried to kill him.

And Michael is a lot more forgiving than Dresden.

We're talking about the guy who offered forgiveness to Nicodemus, the instigator of the Black Plague. Torture-murderer of Shiro. Who tried to hit his son with the Lasciel coin. And he tried to offer him redemption after Nicky sacrificed his only daughter Deirdre to acquire access to the vault with the Holy Grail.

Remember who our Mentor 5 is.


Crashing it now helps us actually escape; we can't just walk out of here because of the cops at the tattoo parlor, so we need to explore the area and find a way out, then work from there. Stopping to hunt down Lydia would take even longer, especially since just getting to her isn't the same as dealing with whatever she's go going on and leaving with her.

Crashing it mid trip serves that purpose and helps boost us in the next few things we probably want to pursue.
I also don't expect her to just walk this off and get in a cab. This is a huge public mess for her that needs handling, even discounting what should be some very serious injuries.
Just getting to where we are from where she is, will take Holt 75 minutes; 45 minutes by car, and 30 minutes by foot.
And then she'd have to follow us further on.
We're on a timer, but it isnt critical yet.

No it doesnt. Mundane people regularly flee the scene of automobile accidents.
If she's on a timer, she can walk away and call a lawyer to handle the legal case. Or use magic to destroy the case documents so a legal case cant be made. Or just vanish and change identities if its too burdensome. Demigodlike power >>> mundane legal case.

And in my opinion, you are vastly underestimating the sheer resilience available to someone supposed to be a peer to Namshiel.

I mean, just looking at canon feats? Dresden had that whole belt buckle thing for storing energy in Blood Rites.
The Alphas have limited regeneration, and whatsherface, Kumori from Dead Beat, could straight up suspend a dude's death.
In this quest, right now, we've seen Gorfels demonstrate combat-time regen.

Nevermind any time tricks Holt has up her sleeve, or any additional runes on that jacket; few magic users show everything, and Gard attests that Monoc's information on Holt is seventeen years out of date.
Thats a little shorter than the time gap between Storm Front Dresden and Battlegrounds Dresden.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 14, 2022 at 5:19 AM, finished with 155 posts and 20 votes.

  • [X]Write-in: Inform others of Kattrin coming, and how far away she is. Go after Lydia first, then find alternate path to surface.
    -[X]Crown of Eyes: Plot path to the current location and destination of Daniel Carpenter's current girlfriend.
    -[X]If Gard gives number for Hendricks' burner phone, type message for Clippy to tell Bunny to send a text message to Hendricks updating him on status and plans, giving him a description of the car, and to keep an eye out for the occupants.
    [X]STUNT: You pocket your phone as you get off your knee. "Holt's car's coming this way. Forty five minutes out at current speeds. And she's bringing a friend." Abrupt silence meets your declaration, and you take a moment to dust off your knee. "Cant tell what it is, just that its human shaped and fits in a car seat, but has no life signs. Time we get Cindy" a nod"out of here." You pause, mind racing, as you finally make a connection. "Wait....Holt's a seer isnt she?" you say slowly. "Could she predict the Ankou's daughter would...." The expression on Gard's face gives you your answer. "Fff...udge. Alright everyone, change of plans."
    [X] Black Rider Will Ride Again!
    -[X] Assuming he can confirm that Katrina is driving, give Black Rider the command to crash his current chassis into a nearby solid object, such as a large tree, stationary garbage truck, sturdy wall, etc. at maximum acceleration with a specific aim toward injuring Katrina as seriously as possible, perhaps even killing her, so long as doing so doesn't endanger bystanders. Going over the side of a bridge would be a good alternative, if an opportunity presents itself.
    --[X] Black Rider will interface with Clippy, using information about this model of car and automobile accidents in general pulled from the internet, to insure the crash is as severe as he can manage. He will also send Clippy all of his GPS data so we can retrace Katrina's route.
    ---[X] Before initiating the crash, he is to lock the doors, prevent Katrina from braking, prevent the seat belts from properly engaging, and trigger all of the airbags a moment before impact in order to render them ineffective.
    ----[X] Assure Black Rider that we will find him a new chassis soon.
    -[X] Using the extra time this buys us, we will try to locate Lydia while also searching for another exit from Undertown. Michael will keep a close guard on Cindy for the time being. Ask Gard if she has any quick and dirty means to keep Katrina from easily tracking Cindy's location, assuming she probably has hair or even blood samples from the girl.
    [X] Black Rider Will Ride Again!
    [X] We need to find another way out to the city, we can't get into a fight while Cindy is with us
 
I'm just not convinced that she isn't superhumanly durable enough to shrug off any car accident we're capable of pulling off without hurting any bystanders. And then we lose a major advantage (the ability to track her movements) in exchange for causing her a minor inconvenience.

Seriously, in order to get to where we are, she has to do half an hour of driving, then get through the police and paramedics investigating the scene, then follow the route through Undertown, which took us a half-hour of walking to get to.

We can be long gone through another entrance to Undertown in the literally over an hour it will take her to get to Cindy's old prison cell and start investigating. So, we meet up with Lydia, get Cindy somewhere safe, call Lydia's dad to share information about the Nazi Necromancers trying to nom the First Ankou for power, and then we use the GPS data from Black Rider to track her down and have a climactic final showdown.

Boom! Easy plan! Let's do it.
 
This is really good. Finally got around to reading it. But, the SPAG is honestly pretty bad. It's distracting even. It didn't make me drop the story honestly but at some points it's pretty rough.

I'm sure a big part of that is how quickly you update but even a quick run through grammarly or something would do this story a lot of good.
 
I'm just not convinced that she isn't superhumanly durable enough to shrug off any car accident we're capable of pulling off without hurting any bystanders. And then we lose a major advantage (the ability to track her movements) in exchange for causing her a minor inconvenience.

Seriously, in order to get to where we are, she has to do half an hour of driving, then get through the police and paramedics investigating the scene, then follow the route through Undertown, which took us a half-hour of walking to get to.

We can be long gone through another entrance to Undertown in the literally over an hour it will take her to get to Cindy's old prison cell and start investigating. So, we meet up with Lydia, get Cindy somewhere safe, call Lydia's dad to share information about the Nazi Necromancers trying to nom the First Ankou for power, and then we use the GPS data from Black Rider to track her down and have a climactic final showdown.

Boom! Easy plan! Let's do it.
I doubt she could come out unscathed if we threw her off a cliff well a high cliff. Unless she's got levitation runes which is really doubtful. Survive maybe at the very least shed spend some reserves defending herself from the fall and take some damage though. There probably isn't a convenient cliff in the 40 minutes before arrival here though. Also honestly 40 minutes until arrival probably mean she's very close traffics just busy in Chicago.
 
This is really good. Finally got around to reading it. But, the SPAG is honestly pretty bad. It's distracting even. It didn't make me drop the story honestly but at some points it's pretty rough.

I'm sure a big part of that is how quickly you update but even a quick run through grammarly or something would do this story a lot of good.
Dude I read on webnovel the grammar here is fine at most there are occasional errors.
 
Dresden did not execute Quintus Cassius out of hand in Death Masks, despite the dude being a Denarian dating back to the Roman Empire, who had been involved in the torture-murders of Father Vincent and Shiro, had tried to kill him personally via entropy curse, and was trying to instigate a magic pandemic. Only when the dude came back in Dead Beat and repeatedly tried to kill him.

On this one point... should be noted that Harry was working with the Knights in Death Masks, odds are if he were working alone he would have executed Casius. Harry is overall a good guy, but he is not quite to the standards of say Michael. Then again that applies to you here as well, you are working with a Knight. Pros and cons.
 
On this one point... should be noted that Harry was working with the Knights in Death Masks, odds are if he were working alone he would have executed Casius. Harry is overall a good guy, but he is not quite to the standards of say Michael. Then again that applies to you here as well, you are working with a Knight. Pros and cons.
In fairness its hard or at least harder to kill a guy like them without using magic in the killing. Which Dresden has to do Canadians are still human after all.

Not even kemmler was exempt from the killing with magic thing. They just used copious magic to incapacitate and beat them up did the killing with swords.
 
This is really good. Finally got around to reading it. But, the SPAG is honestly pretty bad. It's distracting even. It didn't make me drop the story honestly but at some points it's pretty rough.

I'm sure a big part of that is how quickly you update but even a quick run through grammarly or something would do this story a lot of good.

Fair enough, does anyone feel up to beta-ing this story?
 
No it doesnt. Mundane people regularly flee the scene of automobile accidents.
To be fair, that strongly depends on the scene. If it's Black Rider jumping off a highway at 150 miles per hour and ramming into a tank truck carrying full tank of gas, or into a construction site and burying itself under a half-constructed building, or into a power transformer / station causing massive amounts of electricity to short into it, I doubt she's going to come away without an issue. Mundane dangers are still dangers to even high levels of supernatural combatants in Dresden Files. Firearms don't become obsolete until highest levels of magic combat, after all.
 
To be fair, that strongly depends on the scene. If it's Black Rider jumping off a highway at 150 miles per hour and ramming into a tank truck carrying full tank of gas, or into a construction site and burying itself under a half-constructed building, or into a power transformer / station causing massive amounts of electricity to short into it, I doubt she's going to come away without an issue. Mundane dangers are still dangers to even high levels of supernatural combatants in Dresden Files. Firearms don't become obsolete until highest levels of magic combat, after all.
A random drive by could kill a winter lady well at least if they had a lot of uzis and someone didn't put up shield magics. That or a powerful sniper. Someone like man well she could be harmed by normal guns it would take high caliber and an absurd amount of shots to actually harm her though not even mentioning what she would do that would immediately make the shooters a non threat. A nuke might kill a winter queen it would at least do a lot of damage if it doesnt. Guns can at least make mab bleed somewhat if caught quickly.
 
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Not that Michael knows what we're doing unless we volunteer the information.

On a side note, with the level of control Black Rider should have over a computerised engine, he should be able to make it explode by manipulating the air/fuel ratio and the timings of the ignition,

On survivability of a crash. People can walk away from automobile accidents, but this isn't an accident. People very rarely walk away from suicide attempts via car, which this more closely resembles. Black Rider can pick a location from GPS maps and traffic reports where it can get the space to accelerate and hit something hard enough from the correct angle to literally tear her to pieces. Head on collisions have the benefit of a lot of crumple zone to absorb the energy. Side on collisions don't. And seeing as he can time the engine to explode in the moment of the collision, if she survives then she should burn to death while trapped in a crumpled car.

Black Rider can also pull off manoeuvres a human driver would find impossible, because it can do things like selectively brake individual wheels, so can spin the car around to hit broadside rather than head on very quickly.
 
If it's Black Rider jumping off a highway at 150 miles per hour and ramming into a tank truck carrying full tank of gas,
And that would kill a whole bunch of civilian bystanders, and is thus not actually an option.
or into a construction site and burying itself under a half-constructed building
Potentially hurting a lot of construction workers and innocent bystanders when the building falls, so also a bad idea.
or into a power transformer / station causing massive amounts of electricity to short into it
Also has high potential for collateral damage.

And all of this assumes she passes some sort of specific thing, without any innocent bystanders between her and the thing we want to ram, during a 40-minute drive that spends the entire time in Chicago traffic, meaning she's going to spend significant portions of it in bumper-to-bumper traffic almost with other cars that we don't want to damage.

I specified "without hurting any bystanders" for a reason. That qualifier severely curtails the amount of damage we can do to Katrina in a crash, and what's left just inconveniences her, or at least to the point where I think people are seriously over-estimating how much damage this plan will do.
 
To be fair, that strongly depends on the scene. If it's Black Rider jumping off a highway at 150 miles per hour and ramming into a tank truck carrying full tank of gas, or into a construction site and burying itself under a half-constructed building, or into a power transformer / station causing massive amounts of electricity to short into it, I doubt she's going to come away without an issue. Mundane dangers are still dangers to even high levels of supernatural combatants in Dresden Files. Firearms don't become obsolete until highest levels of magic combat, after all.
If you have no care for collateral at all, have significant preptime, and employ gratuitous amounts of overkill, you can kill almost anything. Mavra allegedly would have died in Blood Rites if they had taken the Dresden Option suggested by Kincaid and just burned the building and all the civilians inside it to the ground. Word of Jim.

But when you're not a sociopath, and you're dealing with a prepared necromancer who has devoted hundreds of years to surviving and thriving when literally having a price on her head from the remaining Norse pantheon? You have to consider that you need a wee bit more than a staged car accident in a car engineered for safety to do more than inconvenience them briefly.

I mean, people forget that one of the first events of Proven Guilty was someone trying to kill Dresden by repeatedly ramming his car with a bigger one. He drives a classic Beetle with fuckall safety measures; his rear window is acrylic for crying out loud.
He was only a little dazed.
On this one point... should be noted that Harry was working with the Knights in Death Masks, odds are if he were working alone he would have executed Casius. Harry is overall a good guy, but he is not quite to the standards of say Michael. Then again that applies to you here as well, you are working with a Knight. Pros and cons.
If he was working alone Cassius would have killed him, so not really an issue :V
And frankly, if he somehow manage to pull it off, he would have a case for enforcement of White Council laws right there.

But like you said, when you choose to work with a Knight, you are constrained by their moral code.
Dems the breaks.
 
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Kidnapping people in broad daylight requires that you warp time in an area, else you might well have
There is no way to grab a teenager off the street without touching them and by your explanation breaking any time magic.
Yet here Cindy seems oblivious about how she got here.
That's because she didn't use time magic to grab her. The first spell on the list you quoted is a bit of mind magic that screws your perception of time up and isn't broken with a touch. She blasts people with that and then pulls them into a car and takes off.

Just getting to where we are from where she is, will take Holt 75 minutes; 45 minutes by car, and 30 minutes by foot.
And then she'd have to follow us further on.
We're on a timer, but it isnt critical yet.

No it doesnt. Mundane people regularly flee the scene of automobile accidents.
If she's on a timer, she can walk away and call a lawyer to handle the legal case. Or use magic to destroy the case documents so a legal case cant be made. Or just vanish and change identities if its too burdensome. Demigodlike power >>> mundane legal case.

And in my opinion, you are vastly underestimating the sheer resilience available to someone supposed to be a peer to Namshiel.

I mean, just looking at canon feats? Dresden had that whole belt buckle thing for storing energy in Blood Rites.
The Alphas have limited regeneration, and whatsherface, Kumori from Dead Beat, could straight up suspend a dude's death.
In this quest, right now, we've seen Gorfels demonstrate combat-time regen.

Nevermind any time tricks Holt has up her sleeve, or any additional runes on that jacket; few magic users show everything, and Gard attests that Monoc's information on Holt is seventeen years out of date.
Thats a little shorter than the time gap between Storm Front Dresden and Battlegrounds Dresden.
You're drastically overestimating how easy it is for squishies to become passively superhumanly durable, the costs involved in doing so, and how destructive car wrecks can be for the people in them.

She's in one nazi sorcerer's Rolodex on the same page, that doesn't make her a Denarian. Even if she survives that kind of force she'll need to expend something to do it, and probably still come out injured.

Edit:
To be clear, I basically see this as going "soak 50-100* lethal damage and tell me if your bones still exist" so abruptly that she only has time to get off a reflexive action at best. She isn't an exalt, so she doesn't have perfect defenses, and as a caster she needs time to cast spells and activate item effects. Even if she can soak enough to keep her health track bellow incapacitated it shouldn't be free.

She'll have to burn resources and then decide between pursuit without her major ambush protections or breaking off to put them back together.

*or something similarly comically high, these numbers are just placeholders.
 
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I specified "without hurting any bystanders" for a reason. That qualifier severely curtails the amount of damage we can do to Katrina in a crash, and what's left just inconveniences her, or at least to the point where I think people are seriously over-estimating how much damage this plan will do.

It really doesn't. Her car can go from 0-100kph in five seconds and 0-200kph in twenty seconds. There will be places she's driving through that have hard shoulders or similar that the car can accelerate in, particularly right before bridges and tunnels. Black Rider can do things like accelerate along the hard shoulder and then spin the car so that the car impacts the bridge support pillars or edge of the tunnel entrance right where the driver's door is, so that the car will fold around that impact point, crushing her as the car wraps around the fulcrum point where she is.

Even if she survives that, she'll be trapped, which means she'll burn to death as Black Rider can detonate the engine and set the car aflame in the moment of impact.
 
That's because she didn't use time magic to grab her. The first spell on the list you quoted is a bit of mind magic that screws your perception of time up and isn't broken with a touch. She blasts people with that and then pulls them into a car and takes off.


You're drastically overestimating how easy it is for squishies to become passively superhumanly durable, the costs involved in doing so, and how destructive car wrecks can be for the people in them.

She's in one nazi sorcerer's Rolodex on the same page, that doesn't make her a Denarian. Even if she survives that kind of force she'll need to expend something to do it, and probably still come out injured.
1) This is not a vanilla mortal, its a thousand year old Valkyrie necromancer with preptime.
With preptime Cowl tanked the Darkhallow backfire to his face. Holt came to Gard's town after months of preptime to eat the Ankou. It defies belief that she didnt prepare for surviving personal attack specially given how the Chicago Outfit rolls.

2)She's on the Thule Society board.
She's not lower down on the org chart, they are corporate equals in the C-suite. Namshiel is a Denarian; they might do nepotism, but they dont do charity. If she's a peer, its because he thinks she is one.

3)She's a necromancer. Why are we assuming she cant put up a shield at all?
Dresden shielded himself and Lara Raith against the kersplosion of the Raith Deeps in White Night.
Gard expended just one rune every time Cantrev-lord Mag tried to hit her with magic.
 
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