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The Lost Primarch Quest

Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%

  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
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Only a couple of people involved want civil war as a first solution to all of this.

The problem is that one side of this entire fiasco isn't taking the other side seriously. No. Not nearly enough.

I don't want to say it's reached comedic levels of underestimating the grievances of the other affected party, but it's close. I expected anger and frustration from Malcador, but his response was more like burying one's head in the sand and then assuming way more control of a situation quickly spiraling than they actually possess.

And he's dismissive toward the one person who's trying to head this off at the pass instead of trying to offer guidance and alternatives to the already extreme solution he came up with.
 
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It's why my write in, invalid as it was, was focused on getting Malcador to see that he CAN get a handle on the situation...if he is willing to accept the view points of the Primarchs as valid.


Cause I think that's a key thing here...yeah Malcador's grown beyond "The Primarchs are weapons to be disposed of later." but he's now in "They are unruly, emotional children that need a firm hand." mode and as such will see anything said or done by them in that light, rather than that of people who are equal to him and Big E in some way...
 
The Primarchs have grown to be far more cooperative and able to commiserate and see each other's points of view, reapprochement, settling things in a constructive fashion or being made to see reason outright.

The only ones who seem to be slower to react to this is Emps and Malcador, the latter of which was doing well by ascribing personhood to the Primarchs instead of giving up on them outright. But now he can't see that people with the political power and the will of countless people behind them can't be dismissed out of hand like unruly children.

Even if it really stings to have to treat someone who you thought of as a junior party to your schemes as an equal, the fact of the matter is the Primarchs have been made from the ground up to incarnate the best virtues of their Conceptual development, and not a single one of them is an idiot. They are all peerless geniuses. And one would be hard pressed to even be comparable in their area of expertise.

They are not mere junior partners. And if you piss them off enough, you won't enjoy the results. Because they might take all that character development and form a coalition more formidable than you ever imagined to do great and terrible things.
 
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Well, regardless, this went far, far better then I expected. There are lines of communication being opened- I don't think Malcador is dismissing us, rather, he seems to be on a more "Yeah, it's an issue, but you could have talked before this- and more importantly, we have more dangerous issues to deal with right now." kinda of trap of thinking.

Regardless, I'm happy the letter was fairly well received. We should talk to him before this happens in full though, if only so that things don't escalate out of control once the meeting happens. The wheel is turning, we can only steer it now. Regardless, the greatest weapon ever made by any species was the ability to speak to one another and gain a common understanding.

[X] The Sigillite - Join Malcador for a meal, you have been invited.
 
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O man I never vote because I am always worried about somehow messing up the story which is irrational since a single vote isn't going to totally derail this great story. I have no idea how civil war is going to be avoided. I still feel that Kesar working with others and bridging the communication gap makes it possible for civilvl war to not break out.
 
Daemon Hunter said:
Exactly this, there are enough strong personalities involved that the Primarch meeting is going to be lengthy on its own and have a wide variety of possible outcomes.
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This ^. And it's not like Marcador has a lot of free time either.

[X] The Sigillite - Join Malcador for a meal, you have been invited.
[X] The Imperial Few - A trusted few Primarchs are brought to a discussion with the Emperor
 
daemon could we send Baldur to the lord commander to apologize for not being able to come(maybe blaming the delay of the council since we were going to meet him there) and like tell him we will this turn?
 
Since the vote is so close, I... uh, I guess I'll talk about my feelings on the vote for the Sol System idea?

This might seem a bit 'gamey' to try doing two major options 'at once', meeting both the Primarchs and meeting Malcador afterward, and I totally get why some people would think that even if I think it makes perfect sense in-universe. But aside from that point, here's why I really like the idea.

Well, like it beyond all the implications and interesting shit that'd be fun to see and branch out from. Because I'll admit, I love to see whatever will happen in this quest.

Pulling back from the vote itself, something to note is that Kesar has big reason to go to Mars and meet with Kelbor-hal right now beyond the other stuff. The whole deal with Vulkan that the Fabricator-General was and is massively critical to everything that will happen from now on.

This is the crux of Kesar's 'fight' against the Emperor of Mankind to try fixing the big problems with him and the Imperium, he's intervened in that deal and has taken over full responsibility of the Maelstrom campaign that was meant to be Vulkan's 'duty' to distract him from his reforms plans. This is Kesar's weapon and Kesar happily got it from Vulkan and Konrad, but Kelbor and the Mechanicum isn't all that pleased with this.

In Daemon Hunter's (paraphrased) words, Kelbor's plan for the Maelstrom through Vulkan's deal went from an amazing critical success to just a 'good' success. Losing out on this isn't the end of the world for Kelbor and Kesar's relations, he'll understand why we did it even if he's annoyed at the situation, but he does really want to discuss this matter with Kesar later so we'd probably social him sooner or later anyway. And, on the plus side, in-addition to everyone else, Kesar doing this plan has caused Kelbor to fully understand what makes Kesar tick and decide on his (fucking insane) courses of action.

The Primarchs (which would be Mortarion, Horus, Perturabo and Magnus), meanwhile wouldn't be firmly against Kesar meeting Malcador instead of them, but even with understanding would wish that Kesar met with them instead for the big plans they're working on which is why this whole situation is happening. Gotta work together, share all they've learnt, to get through the coming years and ensure this shit goes according to plan.

Meeting with Malcador is, well… that's rather obvious in terms of why we'd want this, in-universe and out, so I won't waste time going over that. And I'd be happy if this option won instead of the write-in.

Speaking of the write-in… well, this neatly solves a few issues, admittedly might create one or two more, and firmly establishes to everyone that this is not something to be brushed aside, ignored, easily defied or something to be given a concession with.

Going to Mars before Malcador will send a message to everyone that this is serious. This isn't some Primarchs getting a little antsy over the situation, no minor complaints or squabble or whatever. Kesar is not backing down, neither is anyone else on his side.

As Daemon Hunter said, this act would be viewed as an 'escalation' of the current situation. And in my mind, that's a good thing. Risks of civil war or not, something has to change or things will collapse. And change can't happen quietly. In-fact, civil war and rebellion is already being risked. The last vote had at least two confirmed options that would have resulted in this, if the letter option wasn't picked instead.

If this just gets brushed aside somehow, whether Kesar is involved or not, things will blow up. Probably with Mortarion first. So doing this ensures that won't happen, for better or worse.

And, well, Kelbor will go from annoyance to losing out on his major success to absolute joy that this situation is happening and that Mars was chosen for the 'secret' Primarch meeting to take place. Keep in mind, Kelbor would ensure (despite close proximity to Terra), that the meeting would be private. Well, not private from him, but kept secret from anyone else while.

Kelbor is even likely to help teach the Primarchs here to help them deal with Malcador about political matters and such related skills that, as even the Emperor would angrily admit, Kelbor is supremely good at. Which, uh… Kesar will need all the help he can get in facing Malcador afterward and, in the future, all Primarchs involved in this plan will need to ensure victory at the Tribunal.
 
I do always love these long posts, and I will say that for the most part, it is accurate. The only caution I would provide is that do be wary about how many issues it will resolve and how many it will create.
 
Every permutation of decision crisis point management has the possibility of causing complications or resolving complications.

The fact of the matter is, our primary goal was, at all costs, avoid being brushed off or allow things to fester.

Mission fucking accomplished there. Now it's navigating through all the other choppy hot water that we have to do.

The thing is, if you didn't want to live a dangerous occupation.

Maybe don't be Kesar Dorlin.

Stick to agriworlds, maybe.
 
In a political sense, if we do the Sol option, we keep the initiative, if we choose one or the other, we in essence give up the initiative and lose the ability to influence/guide where things go...we NEED that ability for both.
 
Current tally.

Adhoc vote count started by Enjou on Sep 4, 2022 at 11:16 AM, finished with 87 posts and 41 votes.
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So we've got a tie right now. Personally, I would advise going for the Sol System option. It's gaming things a bit, but it's gaming them in a way that makes sense.

If we don't go to Mortarion's meetup with the rest of the Primarchs he's gathering, then we have no control over what happens there. And I wouldn't be shocked if what came of that meeting was Mortarion deciding to rebel, with or without the support of the others.

Yet, if we don't meet Malcador, that's also going to have consequences, because it signals to him that we're not willing to discuss the matter, and we'll very firmly end up as being seen as an obstacle rather than someone he can cooperate with.

By meeting the Primarchs on Mars first, but still accepting his invitation, we're signaling to Malcador that we're taking his offer of discussion seriously. That we're talking to the group that has grievances, putting together our arguments, demands, etc., and coming then coming to him in good faith to have that discussion. Further, by having the Primarchs meet right next door, we're showing that we're not trying to hide that the meeting is happening - we're right there, it's obvious, no attempts at subterfuge.
 
[X] The Sol System. First meet with the Primarchs that Mortarion has gathered on Mars to discuss matters with them and Kelbor-Hal, then meet with Malcador on Terra afterward.
 
I agree, we do need more oomph in order to get Malcador to listen to us, and not just walk into the dragon's cave without support.
 
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