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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Goldfish said:
Done.

[X] Call Agent Cole with an offer.
-[X] Find a payphone to use that doesn't have any nearby surveillance cameras.
--[X] Rather than making an offer just yet, however, have Clippy play pack the recorded conversation between Cole and Wright as an introduction.
---[X] Using Clippy to distort our voice, or better yet, having it speak for us, say, "Just from overhearing this conversation between yourself and Agent Wright, it is obvious just how ignorant you are of the supernatural. Otherwise, you would not have kidnapped a Warden Commander of the White Council, or the Lawmakers as you call them, during a war with bloodthirsty vampires. Ignorance can be forgiven, but that only goes so far."
----[X] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning. For God's sake, he advertises his services in the phone book."

No, they don't even need an excuse. They didn't need an excuse to kidnap Harry. The only reason they did it now was because they had leverage.
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Yeah, they got a video (that they know is fake) of him murdering someone. That's the excuse.
 
DragonParadox said:
I will say this much because it is something Molly would be thinking it after the talk with Michael, governments and the supernatural to not always mix well, but on the other hand from where the government is standing most upernaturals including Harry is in breach of the law of the land, they law they must follow on the soil of X country. For instance Harry killed Renfields, now you can say they are unsalvageable, but there is no exception in US law for 'vampire thrall' so by the letter of the law Harry is a murderer, the same goes for most wizards, all vampires, practically all fey etc...

The enforcement arm of the state is faced with factions upon which it cannot even attempt impose the law without mass panic. Now does that mean strong-arming is justifiable? That is your call as the players and Molly's IC

My point was only that these people are already in some very murky waters just by the nature of their job. There is a reason why no one wants to be in SI and it is not just the physical danger, it is also that by the nature of the job you are already breaking the law constantly to cover things up. Once breaking the law is your day job it's easier to go further.
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That's a decent point, but I don't think it really justifies the direction they're going.

It's important to charge people in very specific ways and to be as truthful and accurate as possible when doing so, or you undermine trust in law enforcement as actual law enforcement instead of stooges in suits. Exhibit A being the conversation in this thread. For my part at least I'd have given the FBI the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent if I hadn't just seen them willfully abet a frame job for their benefit.


Yog said:
They could have done this, probably. That would have been the most optimal solution from objective and our perspective. From theirs, it would require them to trust Harry's character and value him as an ally enough to give up a strong position of strength. They don't know Harry well enough for that, in my opinion.

Plus, you know, from an incomplete perspective, Harry is an enforcer of an international terrorist organization that imposes its laws on USA soil.
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You're not necessarily wrong, but this is the problem with making up shit to excuse law enforcement actions; you lose trust.

If they came around and arrested him based on some evidence they found related to his actions as a warden that they believed he was accountable for then I would be able to buy that they are least had good intentions.

But they know this charge is bullshit and are using it anyway because they can get away with it. As far as I'm concerned that's a death sentence to any trust in their intentions or character of this specific sub group as a law enforcement agency.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
The moment you play a recording of a federal agent's phonecall they are going to be able to arrest you on wiretapping charges. How doesn't matter. He's FBI. His work phone is recorded, likely not just internally. It does nothing but hand him a lever to hold over US as much as he is using the murder charge to hold over Dresden.
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To be fair. I don't think that Goldfish's write in exposes us to an unreasonable risk of being caught, considering we're having Clippy do the talking from an unobserved phonebox. Presumably Molly will be careful....

You know what, better to start getting Harry out of there and he can call a priest and let him decided how to go forward with this.

@Goldfish, considering that Harry is not in danger of harm or death, I'd be happy to vote for you if add in a line about taking a quick bleach bath at Harry's before going out to find an unobserved phonebooth?

[suggestion: Maybe instead of "Clippy calls from phonebooth" use "go outside a random house with no security cameras nearby and have Clippy hack into their wifi or install a demon into their wifi/landline phone, and use that connection to make the call/send the recorded message."]
 
Goldfish said:
Done.

[X] Call Agent Cole with an offer.
-[X] Find a payphone to use that doesn't have any nearby surveillance cameras.
--[X] Rather than making an offer just yet, however, have Clippy play pack the recorded conversation between Cole and Wright as an introduction.
---[X] Using Clippy to distort our voice, or better yet, having it speak for us, say, "Just from overhearing this conversation between yourself and Agent Wright, it is obvious just how ignorant you are of the supernatural. Otherwise, you would not have kidnapped a Warden Commander of the White Council, or the Lawmakers as you call them, during a war with bloodthirsty vampires. Ignorance can be forgiven, but that only goes so far."
----[X] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning. For God's sake, he advertises his services in the phone book."

No, they don't even need an excuse. They didn't need an excuse to kidnap Harry. The only reason they did it now was because they had leverage.
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In the absence of another culprit Dresden is known to Chicago PD as a copkiller. They don't know who actually killed Greene and would likely need help to find out. Clearing his name isn't that simple at this point.

The smart thing to do IMO is to see if Forthill can send any help Dresden's way but accept he's on a bus for the moment.

In the meantime, we track down Greene's killer ourselves, and deliver evidence against them to Wright's people(As an audition or not as you prefer, either way dresden gets cleared).
 
IF we make a covert phonecall we should do it through Clippy directly. Just have Clippy hijack a random phone in a legal office and make the call. Give the FBI a real headache when they try to track the call and find a giant pile of lawyers and legal confidentiality.
 
Goldfish said:
----[X] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning. For God's sake, he advertises his services in the phone book."
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Honest question - how can they clear Dresden's name? The evidence exists. It is most likely not doctored or anything like that. So, how can they clear Dresden's name?
 
OctarineShrike said:
In the meantime, we track down Greene's killer ourselves, and deliver evidence against them to Wright's people(As an audition or not as you prefer, either way dresden gets cleared).
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How would we produce usable evidence?

Sure, we can track down the real killer, using our crown and other tools.
But what then?

Expose him as a shapeshifter or ancient Nazi-sorcerer or whatever to the local cops and expect them to believe it?
Get a confession of faking the video via clever interrogation and record it on Clippy?

None of that sounds like admissable evidence.
 
Also the military can easily push in the shit any of the factions that brought an army to battlegrounds. An artillery battery could have cleared everything in that fight.
 
Artemis1992 said:
How would we produce usable evidence?

Sure, we can track down the real killer, using our crown and other tools.
But what then?

Expose him as a shapeshifter or ancient Nazi-sorcerer or whatever to the local cops and expect them to believe it?
Get a confession of faking the video via clever interrogation and record it on Clippy?

None of that sounds like admissable evidence.
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No, this is one of those places where you lie like crazy to get the truth in the end. The evidence against Dresden needs to vanish. The paperwork against Dresden needs to vanish. New evidence proving the real killer killed the cop needs to be produced, fabricated as needed, and then inserted into the situation.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
How would we produce usable evidence?

Sure, we can track down the real killer, using our crown and other tools.
But what then?

Expose him as a shapeshifter or ancient Nazi-sorcerer or whatever to the local cops and expect them to believe it?
Get a confession of faking the video via clever interrogation and record it on Clippy?

None of that sounds like admissable evidence.
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A Challenging conundrum. One the FBI is subject to as well when it comes to clearing Dresden's name. At the very least we can feed Special Investigations/Murphy the evidence.

In the meantime the FBI may well be the safest place for him to be.

Edit: What Fouredged Sword said.
 
Yog said:
They could have done this, probably. That would have been the most optimal solution from objective and our perspective.[1] From theirs, it would require them to trust Harry's character and value him as an ally enough to give up a strong position of strength.[2] They don't know Harry well enough for that, in my opinion.[3]

Plus, you know, from an incomplete perspective, Harry is an enforcer of an international terrorist organization that imposes its laws on USA soil.[3]
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[1] They should have done this. It would have been more likely to achieve their goals, especially since they could always just escalate up to doing... what they did do. It would have been the most optimal method of achieving their stated goals from their perspective, based on the information they have.

But they didn't, and their choice to not start friendly and then escalate if need be is informative.

[2] How does starting with a friendly attitude and escalating to mean as needed have an impact on their 'strong position of strength'?

[3] Why is it impor-

Enough! My ADHD tablet has worn off. Trying to lay bare the logical flaws in your position has suddenly become boring.
The fact is that you are ok with what these folk choose to do here, and are making excuses for that choice on how to go about recruiting Harry. Their stupid, stupid choice.

---
[X] Goldfish

I prefer if you put in the bit with the bleach and the random house, but i'm happy enough with your original plan as suggested.
Edit: Maybe remove any and all sass/insult and pare the message down to bare facts so we don't sound like Molly? Can't hurt and might help.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I will say this much because it is something Molly would be thinking it after the talk with Michael, governments and the supernatural to not always mix well, but on the other hand from where the government is standing most upernaturals including Harry is in breach of the law of the land, they law they must follow on the soil of X country. For instance Harry killed Renfields, now you can say they are unsalvageable, but there is no exception in US law for 'vampire thrall' so by the letter of the law Harry is a murderer, the same goes for most wizards, all vampires, practically all fey etc...

The enforcement arm of the state is faced with factions upon which it cannot even attempt impose the law without mass panic. Now does that mean strong-arming is justifiable? That is your call as the players and Molly's IC

My point was only that these people are already in some very murky waters just by the nature of their job. There is a reason why no one wants to be in SI and it is not just the physical danger, it is also that by the nature of the job you are already breaking the law constantly to cover things up. Once breaking the law is your day job it's easier to go further.
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Its very reasonable for them to have acted this way, but refusing to see things from their point of view or empathize is pretty much the Internets watch word.

[X] Goldfish
 
BeepSmile said:
@Goldfish, considering that Harry is not in danger of harm or death, I'd be happy to vote for you if add in a line about taking a quick bleach bath at Harry's before going out to find an unobserved phonebooth?

[suggestion: Maybe instead of "Clippy calls from phonebooth" use "go outside a random house with no security cameras nearby and have Clippy hack into their wifi or install a demon into their wifi/landline phone, and use that connection to make the call/send the recorded message."]
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I would prefer an Essence topoff, too, but we're at 7/12 so not exactly empty. I don't want to delay for that long, either.
Yog said:
Honest question - how can they clear Dresden's name? The evidence exists. It is most likely not doctored or anything like that. So, how can they clear Dresden's name?
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They obviously have the ability already, if they intend to make the offer. The easiest thing would be to say the video had been doctored or provide him with an ironclad alibi.
Fouredged Sword said:
IF we make a covert phonecall we should do it through Clippy directly. Just have Clippy hijack a random phone in a legal office and make the call. Give the FBI a real headache when they try to track the call and find a giant pile of lawyers and legal confidentiality.
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Is this within Clippy's abilities, @DragonParadox?
 
Goldfish said:
I would prefer an Essence topoff, too, but we're at 7/12 so not exactly empty. I don't want to delay for that long, either.

They obviously have the ability already, if they intend to make the offer. The easiest thing would be to say the video had been doctored or provide him with an ironclad alibi.

Is this within Clippy's abilities, @DragonParadox?
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Unfortunately no, Clippy cannot hack phones or anything else really, she has no hacking ability until you buy that second dot of allies
 
DragonParadox said:
Unfortunately no, Clippy cannot hack phones or anything else really, she has no hacking ability until you buy that second dot of allies
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What's our range on summoning a demon into a piece of tech in meters?
Do we have to see the device?

(I'm imagining Molly just looking at some random person's house phone through their window for a moment from the street and walking on (She's wearing a hoody)).

Oh! Or just walking down the street, picking someone on their mobile from a distance, installing a demon, Clippy sends over the file to the new demon via IR (I think this is pre-Bluetooth) and then the new demon sends on the pre-recorded message and deletes itself from the phone.
 
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BeepSmile said:
What's our range on summoning a demon into a piece of tech in meters?
Do we have to see the device?

(I'm imagining Molly just looking at some random person's house phone through their window for a moment from the street and walking on (She's wearing a hoody)).

Oh! Or just walking down the street, picking someone on their mobile from a distance, installing a demon, Clippy sends over the file to the new demon via IR (I think this is pre-Bluetooth) and then the new demon sends on the pre-recorded message and deletes itself from the phone.
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Line of sight with your actual eyes, so if you see a satellite though a telescope that is a valid target. Yes I know that is terrifying, that is just how the exalted roll. :V
 
DragonParadox said:
Line of sight with your actual eyes, so if you see a satellite though a telescope that is a valid target. Yes I know that is terrifying, that is just how the exalted roll. :V
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Eh that is nothing in the shards book their is upgrade charm that lets you HMP thou the net, so it is just becomes a matter of time until the infernal controls the net entirely.

zxzx24 said:
Spy sat demons? Hell yeah!
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Not as valuable as you would think, only 1% of the nets traffic is thou sats today. It was less then that back in 2005. Also hard to handle as their are a between 10k-50k sats up.
 
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