Remove ads

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Reader mode
Artemis1992 said:
I don't know who they are, but if they still exist they appearantly managed not to challenge the major factions of the supernatural world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Library of Congress's Special Collections division is a branch of the Federal Government Lara Raith fears/is wary of(Battle Ground). It has been described by Jim Butcher as the MIB with flamethrowers and do not fuck with them lightly.
 
XenonPrime said:
They think they're a big fish and someone is muscling in on their turf, their territory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And people who think like that and act how they chose to act here are not good people, and should not be expected to have the best interests of others in mind.

These are not allies. They are bullies.

Generally as individuals, their personal goals tend towards accruing power and excising that power over other to demonstrate to themselves that they are power in order to feel safe.

As an organisation, it's primary goal is not the wellbeing of people generally, but rather the maintenance and protection of the State, against threats both forign and domestic. Regardless if the State is in the wrong or in the right, or if said threats are in the wrong or in the right.

My overall point is: These are not our friends. They will take everything we can give them for their own power.
I'm not arguing against giving them a basic primer after conferring with Molly's dad and her priest and Harry ect, or some such.

I'm arguing against thinking that these people are care about preventing suffering for the sake of preventing suffering.
I'm arguing against thinking that how they went about piking up Harry here was "ok" when they could have chosen to present to him as a friend.
 
Last edited:
[X] Go to Father Forthil like your dad suggested, see if there is anything he can do for Harry

Seriously. They are going to go to Harry and be all like "We want you to work for us." and Harry is going to give them a flat stare and go "I'm in the yellow pages. I have an hourly rate."

But seriously, the Church will have hooks they can pull. Unlike the White Council the Church has always been a political entity, and one that can operate openly.
 
OctarineShrike said:
The Library of Congress's Special Collections division is a branch of the Federal Government Lara Raith fears/is wary of(Battle Ground). It has been described by Jim Butcher as the MIB with flamethrowers and do not fuck with them lightly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can take em.

Fouredged Sword said:
[X] Go to Father Forthil like your dad suggested, see if there is anything he can do for Harry

Seriously. They are going to go to Harry and be all like "We want you to work for us." and Harry is going to give them a flat stare and go "I'm in the yellow pages. I have an hourly rate."

But seriously, the Church will have hooks they can pull. Unlike the White Council the Church has always been a political entity, and one that can operate openly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If harry can turn Lash I am willing to bet he can make friends with the FBI in half the time.
 
Yog said:
They know that Harry was framed for this. They don't know that Harry is a good guy. They likely don't know what the standard operating procedure for him discovering that they know of magic. They don't know his capabilities. They have no reason to trust Dresden.

Oh, and they were there with people NOT in the know. Like us.

This really verges into protagonist-centered morality. Because as far as they could plausibly operate without exposing themselves to too much risk, they behaved very softly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fine. Here's a direct question for you:

What would it have actually cost them to tell Harry on his doorstep; who that they know is innocent of the murder they are bringing him in on; that "he has been framed for a murder, but they have to bring him in and speak about this, and he's lucky the FBI here know he is innocent, rather than him being picked up by the cops who think that he killed on of their own?"

What risk would they have been exposed to by trying that first that they have not been exposed to by their chosen method?

(Assume that they 'know' that no recoding devices work around Harry, as that that would have been one of their 'facts')
zxzx24 said:
If harry can turn Lash I am willing to bet he can make friends with the FBI in half the time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lash is redeemable :p
 
Last edited:
Is this an acceptable alternative for anyone? It's as non-confrontational and non-threatening as it can possibly be.

[] Call Agent Cole with an offer.
-[] Find a payphone to use that doesn't have any nearby surveillance cameras.
--[] Rather than making an offer just yet, however, have Clippy play pack the recorded conversation between Cole and Wright as an introduction.
---[] Using Clippy to distort our voice, or better yet, having it speak for us, say, "Just from overhearing this conversation between yourself and Agent Wright, it is obvious just how ignorant you are of the supernatural. Otherwise, you would not have kidnapped a Warden Commander of the White Council, or the Lawmakers as you call them, during a war with bloodthirsty vampires. Ignorance can be forgiven, but that only goes so far."
----[] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning. For God's sake, he advertises his services in the phone book."
 
Last edited:
Goldfish said:
Is this an acceptable alternative for anyone? It's as non-confrontational and non-threatening as it can possibly be.

[] Call Agent Cole with an offer.
-[] Find a payphone to use that doesn't have any nearby surveillance cameras.
--[] Rather than making an offer just yet, however, have Clippy play pack the recorded conversation between Cole and Wright as an introduction.
---[] Using Clippy to distort our voice, or better yet, having it speak for us, say, "Just from overhearing this conversation between yourself and Agent Wright, it is obvious just how ignorant you are of the supernatural. Otherwise, you would not have kidnapped a Warden Commander of the White Council, or the Lawmakers as you call them. Ignorance can be forgiven, but that only goes so far."
----[] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning. For God's sake, he advertises his services in the phone book."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do not give a federal agent proof that we have committed a felony please.
 
BeepSmile said:
And people who think like that and act how they chose to act here are not good people, and should not be expected to have the best interests of others in mind.

These are not allies. They are bullies.

Generally as individuals, their personal goals tend towards accruing power and excising that power over other to demonstrate to themselves that they are power in order to feel safe.

As an organisation, it's primary goal is not the wellbeing of people generally, but rather the maintenance and protection of the State, against threats both forign and domestic. Regardless if the State is in the wrong or in the right, or if said threats are in the wrong or in the right.

My overall point is: These are not our friends. They will take everything we can give them for their own power.
I'm not arguing against giving them a basic primer after conferring with Molly's dad and her priest and Harry ect, or some such.

I'm arguing against thinking that these people are care about preventing suffering for the sake of preventing suffering.
I'm arguing against thinking that how they went about piking up Harry here was "ok" when they could have chosen to present to him as a friend.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I will say this much because it is something Molly would be thinking it after the talk with Michael, governments and the supernatural to not always mix well, but on the other hand from where the government is standing most upernaturals including Harry is in breach of the law of the land, they law they must follow on the soil of X country. For instance Harry killed Renfields, now you can say they are unsalvageable, but there is no exception in US law for 'vampire thrall' so by the letter of the law Harry is a murderer, the same goes for most wizards, all vampires, practically all fey etc...

The enforcement arm of the state is faced with factions upon which it cannot even attempt impose the law without mass panic. Now does that mean strong-arming is justifiable? That is your call as the players and Molly's IC

My point was only that these people are already in some very murky waters just by the nature of their job. There is a reason why no one wants to be in SI and it is not just the physical danger, it is also that by the nature of the job you are already breaking the law constantly to cover things up. Once breaking the law is your day job it's easier to go further.
 
Last edited:
Goldfish said:
Is this an acceptable alternative for anyone? It's as non-confrontational and non-threatening as it can possibly be
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd personally want to reference the war as well '… kidnapped the Warden Commander of the White Council, or Lawmakers as you call them, in the middle of their war with the Red Court of Vampires'.

But otherwise I could vote for that.
 
Goldfish said:
snip good plan
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree with the gist of this, but I prefer to first get get help: an outside perspective (legal-priest) who can give additional context and advice, call on other assistance (the church) and do some legal legwork if need be, and then in the next update or two do your write in.

We know now that the people who picked Harry up intend to use him rather than injure or kill him. That means we have time and can reach out for help rather than having to dive in and hope we're not accidently giving the FBI an erroneous perspective on things that might bite them later.
 
DragonParadox said:
I will say this much because it is something Molly would be thinking it after the talk with Michael, governments and the supernatural to not always mix well, but on the other hand from where the government is standing most upernaturals including Harry is in breach of the law of the land, they law they must follow on the soil of X country. For instance Harry killed Renfields, now you can say they are unsalvageable, but there is no exception in US law for 'vampire thrall' so by the letter of the law Harry is a murderer, the same goes for most wizards, all vampires, practically all fey etc...

The enforcement arm of the state is faced with factions upon which it cannot even attempt impose the law without mass panic. Now does that mean strong-arming is justifiable? That is your call as the players and Molly's IC

My point was only that these people are already in some very murky waters just by the nature of their job. There is a reason why no one wants to be in SI and it is not just the physical danger, it is also that by the nature of the job you are already breaking the law constantly to cover things up. Once breaking the law is your day job it's easier to go further.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly, the by far easiest option for the goverment would be to delete all records and put their heads back in the sand to let the supernatural world self-police.

It's not like they can actually win if they go to far.
Making enemies of the wrong mage or fey (and now freshly arrived Exalted) can, will and absolutly should kill a muggle going where they were not meant to go.
 
Artemis1992 said:
he's careful not to give them any proof though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The moment you play a recording of a federal agent's phonecall they are going to be able to arrest you on wiretapping charges. How doesn't matter. He's FBI. His work phone is recorded, likely not just internally. It does nothing but hand him a lever to hold over US as much as he is using the murder charge to hold over Dresden.
 
Last edited:
Wright already suspects we're a supernatural. Any strange phone call wright gets, we're on the suspect list due to our established history with Dresden. He can guess too.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Honestly, the by far easiest option for the goverment would be to delete all records and put their heads back in the sand to let the supernatural world self-police.

It's not like they can actually win if they go to far.
Making enemies of the wrong mage or fey (and now freshly arrived Exalted) can, will and absolutly should kill a muggle going where they were not meant to go.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's the US government, you can say a lot of bad things about it, but not that is it given to timidity in the face of external threats.
 
BeepSmile said:
Fine. Here's a direct question for you:

What would it have actually cost them to tell Harry on his doorstep; who that they know is innocent of the murder they are bringing him in on; that "he has been framed for a murder, but they have to bring him in and speak about this, and he's lucky the FBI here know he is innocent, rather than him being picked up by the cops who think that he killed on of their own?"

What risk would they have been exposed to by trying that first that they have not been exposed to by their chosen method?

(Assume that they 'know' that no recoding devices work around Harry, as that that would have been one of their 'facts')
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They could have done this, probably. That would have been the most optimal solution from objective and our perspective. From theirs, it would require them to trust Harry's character and value him as an ally enough to give up a strong position of strength. They don't know Harry well enough for that, in my opinion.

Plus, you know, from an incomplete perspective, Harry is an enforcer of an international terrorist organization that imposes its laws on USA soil.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's the US government, you can say a lot of bad things about it, but not that is it given to timidity in the face of external threats.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then they'll have to live with the facts of life.

A Bureau like that gets build up, eventually fucks with the wrong Power, gets torn down under mysterious circumstances and with lost records and a few decades later someone might try again.
 
Artemis1992 said:
From a hard-to-trace call and with a phone that will die before giving up your secrets.
As safe as can be.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He's not an idiot. The smart ass teenager who knows too much JUST finished sassing him, then he gets this call 20 minutes later? There are only a limited number of people on his radar involved in this. Yeah, he's going to go shake the tree to see what falls out. He doesn't even need it to be TRUE. All he needs is an excuse to arrest us.

This is not an organization that works well from positions of weakness. They don't do partnerships. They create assets and informants. You do that by getting power over someone involved.
 
Last edited:
Fouredged Sword said:
The moment you play a recording of a federal agent's phonecall they are going to be able to arrest you on wiretapping charges. How doesn't matter. He's FBI. His work phone is recorded, likely not just internally. It does nothing but hand him a lever to hold over US as much as he is using the murder charge to hold over Dresden.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They have no way to prove who is making that phone call, and they would never be able to use it as any sort of evidence, because the recorded conversation itself is proof of two federal agents conspiring to illegally detain a citizen without cause.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
He's not an idiot. The smart ass teenager who knows too much JUST finished sassing him, then he gets this call 20 minutes later? There are only a limited number of people on his radar involved in this. Yeah, he's going to go shake the tree to see what falls out. He doesn't even need it to be TRUE. All he needs is an excuse to arrest us.

This is not an organization that works well from positions of weakness. They don't do partnerships. They create assets and informants. You do that by getting power over someone involved.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Goldfish is voting to call Wright's boss, if I read that correctly.

Also, he would kinda need to proof the wiretapping to do much.
 
FriedIce said:
I'd personally want to reference the war as well '… kidnapped the Warden Commander of the White Council, or Lawmakers as you call them, in the middle of their war with the Red Court of Vampires'.

But otherwise I could vote for that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Done.

[X] Call Agent Cole with an offer.
-[X] Find a payphone to use that doesn't have any nearby surveillance cameras.
--[X] Rather than making an offer just yet, however, have Clippy play pack the recorded conversation between Cole and Wright as an introduction.
---[X] Using Clippy to distort our voice, or better yet, having it speak for us, say, "Just from overhearing this conversation between yourself and Agent Wright, it is obvious just how ignorant you are of the supernatural. Otherwise, you would not have kidnapped a Warden Commander of the White Council, or the Lawmakers as you call them, during a war with bloodthirsty vampires. Ignorance can be forgiven, but that only goes so far."
----[X] "If you wish to have any hope of salvaging this situation, you should release Mr. Dresden, clear his name, and have someone make an appointment to speak with him at a later date, like you should have from the very beginning."
Fouredged Sword said:
They don't need evidence. They need an excuse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, they don't even need an excuse. They didn't need an excuse to kidnap Harry. The only reason they did it now was because they had leverage.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top