Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
I prefer Flight of the Brilliant Raptor.
Is there a specific reason for Butterflies or just preference?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Gadgets 101(Last one Finally)
Gadgets are one-off devices that use the power of essence to transcend the boundaries of the possible. Gadgets have three categories, Trinkets, Inventions, and Apparatuses. They also necessitate a charm purchase.
Valid Examples of Gadgets from the Chapter
Common Principles of Gadgets
We have to build gadgets personally. Assistants must be guided and supervised in a fairly direct manner by us.
Gadgets can be made by messing with off the shelf parts.
Gadgets are generally speaking, the purview of the Computer, Technology, or Science skill, not the Crafts skill. They are always technological to some extent.
Gadgets do one impossible thing, or combine possible functions of different things in an implausible way
Gadgets need regular maintenance/repair, somewhat mitigateable by having a higher essence rating for Invention class gadgets
A gadget's form and function are always related. Esoteric combinations must have at least a conceptual link. A Pen light that can turns its beam into a cutting laser is valid. A Pen light that transforms people is not valid.
Gadgets mostly work for us, with the ability to add a single individual decided on at the moment of the gadget's creation who must be trained by us if the gadget is invention class presumably. Unless they are trinket class single use ever gadgets. If other people attempt to use an Invention/Apparatus class gadget, they must make a DC 9 roll of whatever relevant tech skills they've got, and it works once before breaking down if they succeed.
Gadgets must be narratively interesting. A Probabilty manipulating gadget should be helping you cheat at cards, not broad spectrum buffing your rolls.
Gadgets are largely inanimate, though the line between gadget and arcana can be blurry at times. "Is a motorcycle that acts like a faithful steed a Gadget loaded with smart software, or is it an Arcana shaped like a motorcycle?"
Trinkets
Single use improv gadgets anyone can use. They store poorly, an exalt can keep (essence) trinkets in storage for (essence) days before they become unusable. A Flashlight that fires a death ray once and burns out beyond possibility of repair is a trinket.
Design Phase: N/A
Resources: A Storage Closet or garage can generally be raided to make most conceivable trinkets
Workshop Requirement: N/A
Construction: (Intelligence or Dexterity)+(Computer, Science, or Technology) roll against DC 7 or 8 if the GM thinks you're stretching things given available materials.
Example Trinket
Inventions
Inventions are conventional objects that share the properties of other objects. A T-shirt cannon modified to shoot silver cutlery like a shotgun, or an umbrella helicopter hybrid is an invention. Only one invention can be made per story.
Design Phase: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 week intervals. Designs are not reusable.
Resources: Inventions necessitate parts related to both intended functions, acquisition methods are flexible.
Workshop Requirements: Range from just a table to spread parts on to a fully outfitted machine shop. Charms make workshop requirements more flexible.
Construction: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 day intervals.
Apparatuses
Apparatuses are devices that go beyond the bounds of what's possible with conventional technology, or are significantly better than conventional tech equivalents. A jetpack that's actually good is an apparatus. A plasma cannon is an apparatus. A Time machine is an apparatus. Apparatus maintenance requirements are determined by how narrative impacting they are on a 0-3 point scale where 0 is something story defining like a time machine or a resurrection device and 3 is on the level of a low cost charm purchase. A 0 impact apparatus breaks down after every instance it is used in the field to do anything narratively meaningful and has the most demanding repair requirements.
0 Impact apparatus has a DC 9 Intelligence + (most appropriate of Computer, Science, or Technology) extended roll at 1 week intervals with the goal set at 25 successes to repair after it breaks
3 Impact apparatus brings the success requirement down to 10 and doesn't break after every field use. It's maintainable too.
An Essence 5 Exalt can make 1 Apparatus per story. Otherwise an Exalt must wait (5-essence) stories before making another one.
Design Phase: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 month intervals. Designs are not reusable.
Resources: Resources 3 with dumpster diving, salvage, stealing things from junkyards, etc. Resources 4 if you want to just buy everything.
Workshop Requirements: Dedicated and properly equipped workspace, made more flexible with the right charms
Construction: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 week intervals.
Gadgets are one-off devices that use the power of essence to transcend the boundaries of the possible. Gadgets have three categories, Trinkets, Inventions, and Apparatuses. They also necessitate a charm purchase.
Valid Examples of Gadgets from the Chapter
- Vehicles that rise up on stilts
- James Bond Cars(Though that may involve making multiple gadgets, I'm not sure)
- Jet Packs that are actually good
- Flamethrower Gauntlets
- Turntables that remix time
- A Shotgun/Stove combo that makes it fire red hot slugs
- Umbrella Rifle Hybrids
- Anti Gravity Boots
- Mind reading helmets
- A Car that drives through time, doing nothing else unusual
- Power Armor at the Steampunk Ironmonger type level(Iron man level, the gadget rules are explicitly designed to make impossible without making multiple independent gadgets and trying to use them in tandem)
- Helicopter Umbrella
- Plasma Cannon
Common Principles of Gadgets
We have to build gadgets personally. Assistants must be guided and supervised in a fairly direct manner by us.
Gadgets can be made by messing with off the shelf parts.
Gadgets are generally speaking, the purview of the Computer, Technology, or Science skill, not the Crafts skill. They are always technological to some extent.
Gadgets do one impossible thing, or combine possible functions of different things in an implausible way
Gadgets need regular maintenance/repair, somewhat mitigateable by having a higher essence rating for Invention class gadgets
A gadget's form and function are always related. Esoteric combinations must have at least a conceptual link. A Pen light that can turns its beam into a cutting laser is valid. A Pen light that transforms people is not valid.
Gadgets mostly work for us, with the ability to add a single individual decided on at the moment of the gadget's creation who must be trained by us if the gadget is invention class presumably. Unless they are trinket class single use ever gadgets. If other people attempt to use an Invention/Apparatus class gadget, they must make a DC 9 roll of whatever relevant tech skills they've got, and it works once before breaking down if they succeed.
Gadgets must be narratively interesting. A Probabilty manipulating gadget should be helping you cheat at cards, not broad spectrum buffing your rolls.
Gadgets are largely inanimate, though the line between gadget and arcana can be blurry at times. "Is a motorcycle that acts like a faithful steed a Gadget loaded with smart software, or is it an Arcana shaped like a motorcycle?"
Trinkets
Single use improv gadgets anyone can use. They store poorly, an exalt can keep (essence) trinkets in storage for (essence) days before they become unusable. A Flashlight that fires a death ray once and burns out beyond possibility of repair is a trinket.
Design Phase: N/A
Resources: A Storage Closet or garage can generally be raided to make most conceivable trinkets
Workshop Requirement: N/A
Construction: (Intelligence or Dexterity)+(Computer, Science, or Technology) roll against DC 7 or 8 if the GM thinks you're stretching things given available materials.
Example Trinket
Inventions
Inventions are conventional objects that share the properties of other objects. A T-shirt cannon modified to shoot silver cutlery like a shotgun, or an umbrella helicopter hybrid is an invention. Only one invention can be made per story.
Design Phase: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 week intervals. Designs are not reusable.
Resources: Inventions necessitate parts related to both intended functions, acquisition methods are flexible.
Workshop Requirements: Range from just a table to spread parts on to a fully outfitted machine shop. Charms make workshop requirements more flexible.
Construction: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 day intervals.
Apparatuses
Apparatuses are devices that go beyond the bounds of what's possible with conventional technology, or are significantly better than conventional tech equivalents. A jetpack that's actually good is an apparatus. A plasma cannon is an apparatus. A Time machine is an apparatus. Apparatus maintenance requirements are determined by how narrative impacting they are on a 0-3 point scale where 0 is something story defining like a time machine or a resurrection device and 3 is on the level of a low cost charm purchase. A 0 impact apparatus breaks down after every instance it is used in the field to do anything narratively meaningful and has the most demanding repair requirements.
0 Impact apparatus has a DC 9 Intelligence + (most appropriate of Computer, Science, or Technology) extended roll at 1 week intervals with the goal set at 25 successes to repair after it breaks
3 Impact apparatus brings the success requirement down to 10 and doesn't break after every field use. It's maintainable too.
An Essence 5 Exalt can make 1 Apparatus per story. Otherwise an Exalt must wait (5-essence) stories before making another one.
Design Phase: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 month intervals. Designs are not reusable.
Resources: Resources 3 with dumpster diving, salvage, stealing things from junkyards, etc. Resources 4 if you want to just buy everything.
Workshop Requirements: Dedicated and properly equipped workspace, made more flexible with the right charms
Construction: Extended Roll of Intelligence+(Computer, Science, or Technology) at 1 week intervals.
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
A fully enclosing bodysuit[1] filled with bleach with some sort of complicated mechanical device around the hands that allows for full finger motion despite being in a suit. (I have a mental image, but I know I'm not wording it well. Maybe just a device that rests on the base of her neck that can scan the motion-control signals going to Molly's hands, and replicate those movements in a robot?)
[1] Not sure how breathing works in this case. A sci-fi tier device that breaks exhaled carbon dioxide back down to carbon and oxygen for breathing, if "fully submerged" requires Molly's head to be covered.
---
[X] Lydia's background, see if you can get her to talk about her family more
-[X] Lead into the conversation by asking what attracted her to our dorky baby brother.
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Just the spell I am most familiar with, FBR does seem better overall for destroying people at ranged even thou it is harder to cast. DOB is more for blowing apart an enemy base.
Don't worry about breathing, the charm means you can survive being submerged in the liquid indefinitely. As suit full of bleach (or other poisonous substance) should work as a focus for enchanting.
We don't need to defend against everything, but we do need defenses against the most common tools we'll be facing. Especially when they allow for tactics that are effective against our build.
We won't even have any of the mitigating charms you're talking about in the near future, the sort of tactics we're talking about will be even more effective at stopping us.
I'm all for a better solution, but we need a fix for this pretty quickly and guns are one of the best ones immediately available.
That's fair, as long as the long term fix actually resolves the problem.
For the moment we can probably scrape by with just enough ranged ability to make people duck, and explore our options from there.
- Location
- washington
I just don't want to spend exp on circumstantial things and spreading out too much specialization is key and trying to be good or even somewhat competent at everything gets annoying.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
So what do y'all think about crafting some basic grenades disguised as common, everyday items?
A travel-sized can of pepper spray can be useful, but a grenade disguised as a travel-sized can of pepper spray could clear a room.
There are several items that might be carried in a teenaged girl's purse which might be of sufficient size to fit the bill.
A travel-sized can of pepper spray can be useful, but a grenade disguised as a travel-sized can of pepper spray could clear a room.
There are several items that might be carried in a teenaged girl's purse which might be of sufficient size to fit the bill.
- Location
- washington
not that I disagree with that the idea of just having grenades on us is hilarious. Offhand can shooting a grenade blow it up that'd be unfortunate for us in combat?
Not really.
Even if you really wanted range, which I don't agree with still, Sorcery is still the fastest and most efficient.
10XP for an Ancient Sorcery spell.
If we were buying a smart air pistol as a Background(I think the QM is doing them as acquired in play), it would be Arsenal 1 at worst, which is 2-3XP, and would still leave us 7XP for charms.
Also Ancient Sorcery is expensive; 3 Essence for DoOB, and 4 Essence for FBR. Not good for combat.
Worse, its not an instacast.
This is for blowing up bases, not combat against an army.
I like the aesthetic of hell butterflies as a shintai effect; subtle nod to Bleach, and its a visual indicator for when we buy our first charms from the Hell of Burrowing Maggots.
But thats an aesthetic touch.
Fair enough.
Dude. Harry Dresden is 31 years old.
He has killed or been responsible for the deaths of Justin DuMorne, MacFinn the loup garou, the Summer Lady, Quintus Cassius, the Capriocorpus, and the Red Court branch in Chicago. He has stood off He Who Walks Behind.
Dresden is not a top tier threat, yet but he's absolutely a heavy hitter, and one of the youngest in his weight class.
Motherfucker initimidates Maeve, and she's Winter Lady.
====
Being able to rampage unprovoked is not really a sign of strength.
Just madness.
====
Nicodemus fucking Archleone has been the partner of Captain Anduriel for almost two thousand years uninterrupted.
He has never died. He has the record of having killed the most Knights of the Cross ever.
He started the Black Plague and killed a third of the population of Europe.
Man has been risking his life for two millenia.
Make no assumptions of what he will or will not do, or what his A-game is like.
If people are still testing Mab, Queen of Air and Darkness despite over a thousand years of demonstrating herself to be the baddest bitch the planet has ever seen? If the Red Court picked a war with the White Council despite their record of doing things like exploding Krakatoa?
The idea that a couple years of us running around is going to make people run away is frankly preposterous.
===============
Look what I found!
Thule Society
The Thule Society is a group of wizards. They first appear in "A Fistful of Warlocks". A long-time foe of the White Council, they can be recognized by a copper necklace bearing a twisted skull marked with a slanted cross.[1] Members include necromancers, Heinrich Kemmler, Grevane and Alexander...
dresdenfiles.fandom.com
- Location
- washington
Look trying to be competent at everything is such an annoying thing in quest that I see in basically every quest being good at everything is not conductive with limited exp.
AoE weapons have a habit of dealing collateral damage.
You mean in the Dresden Files.
Where the PC is canonically Winter Knight, with all the superhuman strength and speed of the Winter Knight.
In addition to being a full wizard, Starborn, channelling soulfire, commanding the loyalties of a good chunk of the Chicago-area wyldfae and having the backup of Demonreach.
Dresden Files, where Harry carries a blasting rod, a wizards staff, a swordcane, multiple force rings AND a revolver?
And those are just his permanent offensive options.
Cmon man.
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- Location
- washington
I don't really debate harry being badass hes one of the most badass people to ever live in the setting just hes punched way past his weight class before and harmed those through cunning which he shouldn't have. Hes never you know punched someone as powerful as eldest gruff, the nice big foot, or god forbid something like the erlking, or even worse mab in the face cause its an instant loss its like fighting geological disasters in the latter two cases. He can theoretically kill said beings its not easy it takes contrived work arounds though and perfect circumstances. Also ladies are noted to have mantles their not you know literal forces of continental nature though their just fuck huge compared to the average wizard and absurdly skilled.10XP for an Ancient Sorcery spell.
If we were buying a smart air pistol as a Background(I think the QM is doing them as acquired in play), it would be Arsenal 1 at worst, which is 2-3XP, and would still leave us 7XP for charms.
Also Ancient Sorcery is expensive; 3 Essence for DoOB, and 4 Essence for FBR. Not good for combat.
Worse, its not an instacast.
This is for blowing up bases, not combat against an army.
I like the aesthetic of hell butterflies as a shintai effect; subtle nod to Bleach, and its a visual indicator for when we buy our first charms from the Hell of Burrowing Maggots.
But thats an aesthetic touch.
Fair enough.
Dude. Harry Dresden is 31 years old.
He has killed or been responsible for the deaths of Justin DuMorne, MacFinn the loup garou, the Summer Lady, Quintus Cassius, the Capriocorpus, and the Red Court branch in Chicago. He has stood off He Who Walks Behind.
Dresden is not a top tier threat, yet but he's absolutely a heavy hitter, and one of the youngest in his weight class.
Motherfucker initimidates Maeve, and she's Winter Lady.
====
Being able to rampage unprovoked is not really a sign of strength.
Just madness.
====
Nicodemus fucking Archleone has been the partner of Captain Anduriel for almost two thousand years uninterrupted.
He has never died. He has the record of having killed the most Knights of the Cross ever.
He started the Black Plague and killed a third of the population of Europe.
Man has been risking his life for two millenia.
Make no assumptions of what he will or will not do, or what his A-game is like.
If people are still testing Mab, Queen of Air and Darkness despite over a thousand years of demonstrating herself to be the baddest bitch the planet has ever seen? If the Red Court picked a war with the White Council despite their record of doing things like exploding Krakatoa?
The idea that a couple years of us running around is going to make people run away is frankly preposterous.
===============
Look what I found!
Thule Society
The Thule Society is a group of wizards. They first appear in "A Fistful of Warlocks". A long-time foe of the White Council, they can be recognized by a copper necklace bearing a twisted skull marked with a slanted cross.[1] Members include necromancers, Heinrich Kemmler, Grevane and Alexander...
Also for nico I don't assume they wouldn't fuck with us they absolutely positively 100 fucking percent would it just wouldn't be direct as their smart its the same reason hes never gone into a fist fight with fucking mab or even shit like eldest gruff cause he'd be fucking curbstomped. Like big foot or eldest gruff had multiple senior council medallions or whatever on their neck they are firmly stronger than dresden yet probably somewhat limited in rules. For those of said weight class they usually are limited in what they can do we are fucking not if he comes near us when we're stronger hes getting fucking smeared and he will most likely eventually know this I'm not underestimating him I think hes going to make smart fucking decisions and provoke us through patsies and clever as fuck planning not via coming out and treating us to a combat encounter where we can win.
- Location
- washington
I mean dresdens not preternaturally good with all of those just quite competent and supernaturally good grit. Dresdens strong for a fucking mortal there are a large amount of fucking earth shattering beings in dresden from what we've seen that are limited in what they do unless you do something like directly attack them which dresdens never fucking done.
Dresden also doesn't have a literal fucking exp pool in canon to insert things into I'm talking about this as a quest problem where people try to do fucking everything I don't care about what dresden does or how it fits the setting for some people in it. also harry loses shit all the time due to breaking or overuse.
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And we'd use what Firearms dots?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Getting to 2 dots of firearms is 5 XP IIRC. Dunno if we'd need in narrative training for the XP to jumpstart though. Like absurd improvement in 3 range sessions or something.
I mean, to be clear.
In-setting, your average Warden thats gone to war wears some armor and carries a magic sword, a gun, a wizards staff, plus any number of additional personalized gear, from grenades to special foci. They literally clank with specialized tools.
Even the Senior Council carry multiple tools for the job; we have seen Langtry wear a combat bandolier for different stuff like potions and other weapons. And Ebenezer carried a shotgun in addition to his wizard staff; you never see the Blackstaff until its time to commit mass murder, but its always there.
The thematic case is pretty clear, if its roleplaying that people are worried about.
Even the Fae are partial to tools; see the athame that ensnared Lea.
4 dice is already better than the average shooter.
Dex 4 + Firearms 0 + Laser sight + Demon bonus dice would still put us firmly in the upper tiers of gunplay.
I mean, worth remembering: 4 dice is at least average for most people.
That we're throwing a 9 dice Dex+Melee pool has its way of distorting expectations for whats normal.
In-setting, your average Warden thats gone to war wears some armor and carries a magic sword, a gun, a wizards staff, plus any number of additional personalized gear, from grenades to special foci. They literally clank with specialized tools.
Even the Senior Council carry multiple tools for the job; we have seen Langtry wear a combat bandolier for different stuff like potions and other weapons. And Ebenezer carried a shotgun in addition to his wizard staff; you never see the Blackstaff until its time to commit mass murder, but its always there.
The thematic case is pretty clear, if its roleplaying that people are worried about.
Even the Fae are partial to tools; see the athame that ensnared Lea.
We wouldnt? WoG is that if we built a smartgun and used Hollow Mind Curse on it, we get bonuses.
4 dice is already better than the average shooter.
Dex 4 + Firearms 0 + Laser sight + Demon bonus dice would still put us firmly in the upper tiers of gunplay.
I mean, worth remembering: 4 dice is at least average for most people.
That we're throwing a 9 dice Dex+Melee pool has its way of distorting expectations for whats normal.
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So the plan was... to deter those who would try to specific entrap an Infernal by firing upon someone we are protecting, or surrounding us...
To use 4 dots + whatever Hollow Mind gives?
Yeah, I can't support that in any event.
4 dice is exactly average, but we aren't speaking in situations where that would be useful, and I don't expect the Hollow Mind demon to give more than 2, maybe 3 dice
I am expecting the laser to just be some sort of Aim action related thing, which we...are not good at.
Edit: But my biggest gripe is still, even above how I dont favour this path of exp spending...
We bought a Melee, Craft and Occult focused character. I don't like moving away from it for what I see as no great benefit we couldn't do elsewhere.
To use 4 dots + whatever Hollow Mind gives?
Yeah, I can't support that in any event.
4 dice is exactly average, but we aren't speaking in situations where that would be useful, and I don't expect the Hollow Mind demon to give more than 2, maybe 3 dice
I am expecting the laser to just be some sort of Aim action related thing, which we...are not good at.
Edit: But my biggest gripe is still, even above how I dont favour this path of exp spending...
We bought a Melee, Craft and Occult focused character. I don't like moving away from it for what I see as no great benefit we couldn't do elsewhere.
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- Location
- washington
I'm fine with the latter I don't wanna put dots into firearms though. Not that I'd quit the quest or something out of sheer pettiness I just don't wanna spend exp on so many separate things. Also lets be frank in canon they didn't have fucking spreadsheets for exp and shit and none of the wizards had beyond really good skill with a gun none were pulling off any deathstroke shit.
But, frankly previous things do you not really get what I'm getting with concerning nicodemus and those like them? Their smart once we're around say big foots general weight class and its known nicodemus would never confront us in a battle of skill or power it'd be through patsies. Also we wouldn't be bound to the you aren't allowed to murder him rules beings like mab have for mortals or pretty much fae most of the time. He'd try to defeat us through planning just like he does with beings outside of his literal combat weight class just like everyone smart does in the series. You won't see even a senior council member trying to murder eldest gruff in a fair fight they'd usually be slaughtered with few exceptions.
Anybody worth shooting is not going to be hit by a measly 9 dice.
- Location
- washington
in fairness a lot of powerful people are actually rather squishy at least where mortals are concerned even dresden isn't all that physically powerful. Like its noted even winter knight buffs don't make him even as strong as a decently fed white court vampire like thomas in the physical department and their on average the weakest vampires when it comes to physical buffs.