Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[X] A different kind of intimidation for a different kind of man (Charisma + Occult)
-[X] Scoff at the ignorance of a Necromancer thinking that he deserves rest in death. You can promise him a life after death, though it will not be a pleasant one. Describe the darkness and cold of Kakuri while leaning close enough that he can feel the chill of your body.
-[X] Do directly state that you can send him there, just in case he mistakes you for some kind of fey and thinks you can't lie.
 
We are just telling him what a Yomi-hell looks like. This you can propably look up in a good occult book in Asia.
And the warlock here doesn't know we are Micheals daughter, he's more likely to consider us some particularly mean ice-fey, or a less-pretty Shikome from Kakuri than he is to actually think we are what we look like.
1)He's a necromancer. He summons, consumes, binds and manipulates ghosts and spirits. The more he knows about an afterlife the better he is at manipulating it, drawing power from its denizens, or making deals with its rulers and natives.
We do not want to enable him by improving his knowledge of the Thousand Hells.

2) No thats not how it works in the Dresdenverse.
Actual magic knowledge is usually controlled or obscure and the really hard stuff is often rare. Much of the plot of Dead Beat involved a scramble for the only copy of an ascension ritual in Chicago, and Dresden figuring out the nature of the Erl King.

We have an Ages-old spirit in our head with knowledge thats rare.
If this sort of thing was easy to find out, Gorfel would already know it. He's been a sorcerer for longer than Michael has been alive, and he can summon spirits for information.

3)If he gets taken to Edinburgh and successfully interrogated before execution, everything they get out of him is accessible to everyone senior enough to get the interrogation records or who has the magic powers to listen in.
That includes Odin, the Archive and Anduriel of the Fallen. And everyone that Nemesis has subverted.

4)There is a spirit of rage in Gorfel's head, giving him superhealing and possibly listening to every conversation.
If dude dies, said spirit goes back to its bosses.
With everything its overheard and remembers.

5)Gorfel operates in Chicago and recognizes Michael on sight. I think he knows damn well that Molly is his daughter.

Dude probably knows the face of every one of Michael's children; its public knowledge, and accessible to anyone willing to hire a private investigator to spend thirty minutes at the public birth records office and two hours outside the Carpenter home on Sunday with a camera.

Its not a good idea to assume incompetence on the part of our opposition. Hostiles who know enough about the ongoing working relationship between Michael and Harry to ambush us outside his home, and who have the resources to put a marksman on site at short notice can be assumed to have done their basic homework about local Chicago persons of interest.

=========
The breadth of our knowledge is indicative of our powers and specialties, and it allows people to prepare for us. Which we do not want. OOC, we know the Bad Guys have moles in Edinburgh and many other places. IC, we know that Molly has survived against fetches, Red Court vampires and Outsiders because she's an OCP, and her survival is better the longer it stays that way.

A successful interrogation attempts to extract as much information as possible without giving any away, because any and all information will be used against you by enemy wizards.
.
 
1)He's a necromancer. He summons, consumes, binds and manipulates ghosts and spirits. The more he knows about an afterlife the better he is at manipulating it, drawing power from its denizens, or making deals with its rulers and natives.
We do not want to enable him by improving his knowledge of the Thousand Hells.

If he tries to poach from Emma-O's domain he'll just earn himself an even worse stay there than we're threatening him with.

The Yama Kings are nigh omnipotent within their domains.

Your working on the basis that he's simultaneously incompetent enough to boast and competent enough to use what we tell him again us. Describing the particular torments the sinners in Kakuri suffer at the hands of their demonic wardens shouldn't be particularly valuable or useful knowledge. Plenty of Japanese Wan Kuei will have experienced them personally.
 
Last edited:
That includes Odin, the Archive and Anduriel of the Fallen. And everyone that Nemesis has subverted.
That reminds me, do we have canon confirmation for just how long the Archive has been around? I can't recall if it's come up in the books before.

I wonder if it's been active long enough to recall when Exalts were active in the world, or at least for their to have been written records of them?
 
If he tries to poach from Emma-O's domain he'll just earn himself an even worse stay there than we're threatening him with.

The Yama Kings are nigh omnipotent within their domains.

Your working on the basis that he's simultaneously incompetent enough to boast and competent enough to use what we tell him again us. Describing the particular torments the sinners in Kakuri suffer at the hands of their demonic wardens shouldn't be particularly valuable or useful knowledge. Plenty of Japanese Wan Kuei will have experienced them personally.
uh dude the hells themselves might be something as old as multiple reality iterations back so being sure they've been experienced personally is not something you should be sure of.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
If he tries to poach from Emma-O's domain he'll just earn himself an even worse stay there than we're threatening him with.

The Yama Kings are nigh omnipotent within their domains.

Your working on the basis that he's simultaneously incompetent enough to boast and competent enough to use what we tell him again us. Describing the particular torments the sinners in Kakuri suffer at the hands of their demonic wardens shouldn't be particularly valuable or useful knowledge. Plenty of Japanese Wan Kuei will have experienced them personally.
1)Thats assuming he's heading there in the first place, as opposed to some other afterlife.
There are a lot of them around, by virtue of all the cosmologies and the fact that we're fusing the Dresdenverse, Exalted and WoD.
Just the Dresdenverse has the Norse, Greek, and pseudoCatholic limbo that we've seen onscreen, as well as Lucifer's place.

And of course, he can always cut a deal if he's powerful enough.

2)If Mab and Ferrovax and Uriel have rules limiting them, if the Fallen are locked inside silver coins, and Lucifer Morningstar is stuck in hell? The Yama Kings are limited as well.

The Yama Kings didnt even hold the Ten Thousand when they were dead and delivered into their power; there are going to be genuine doubts about their ability to lock down their domains against people wholly in their power, let alone those who are still alive and are outside their jurisdiction by the Rules.

3) Yes? I mean, have you MET a Kemmlerite? All the ones we saw in Dead Beat, Grevane and Capriocorpus and Cowl, they were all at least moderately competent villains, and horrifyingly skilled at magic, but they all loved the sound of their own voice and had a weakness for theatricality. Something about working with necromancy made them all barmy. Even Cowl.

That reminds me, do we have canon confirmation for just how long the Archive has been around? I can't recall if it's come up in the books before. I wonder if it's been active long enough to recall when Exalts were active in the world, or at least for their to have been written records of them?
Almost definitely not.
The Archive was created to win the Oblivion War. I remember a quote about it being at least five thousand years old, but I cant find a source. If I had to guess? Older than Christ, but nowhere as old as an Exaltation.

Note that we dont know if Exalts were ever active on THIS world. Might be from an alternate, similar world.
 
Last edited:
1)Thats assuming he's heading there in the first place, as opposed to some other afterlife.
There are a lot of them around, by virtue of all the cosmologies and the fact that we're fusing the Dresdenverse, Exalted and WoD.
Just the Dresdenverse has the Norse, Greek, and pseudoCatholic limbo that we've seen onscreen, as well as Lucifer's place.

And of course, he can always cut a deal if he's powerful enough.

2)If Mab and Ferrovax and Uriel have rules limiting them, if the Fallen are locked inside silver coins, and Lucifer Morningstar is stuck in hell? The Yama Kings are limited as well.

The Yama Kings didnt even hold the Ten Thousand when they were dead and delivered into their power; there are going to be genuine doubts about their ability to lock down their domains against people wholly in their power, let alone those who are still alive and are outside their jurisdiction by the Rules.

3) Yes? I mean, have you MET a Kemmlerite? All the ones we saw in Dead Beat, Grevane and Capriocorpus and Cowl, they were all at least moderately competent villains, and horrifyingly skilled at magic, but they all loved the sound of their own voice and had a weakness for theatricality. Something about working with necromancy made them all barmy. Even Cowl.


Almost definitely not.
The Archive was created to win the Oblivion War. I remember a quote about it being at least five thousand years old, but I cant find a source. If I had to guess? Older than Christ, but nowhere as old as an Exaltation.

Note that we dont know if Exalts were ever active on THIS world. Might be from an alternate, similar world.
or even just iterations back or multiple things seeing the weird metaphysics of exalted means it quite literally could be multiple things.
 
Last edited:
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

As intersting as expounding about possible unpleasant afterlives might be, I don't think we want to do so in front of Dad and Harry. It's probably not great for Molly's mental health anyway to press the hard line.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

Trying stupid bluffs or worse serious threats about fates worse than death is idiotic with Harry and Michael in the room. Not only would they never abide such, and give us trouble just for threatening such, this asshat Nazi knows they would never allow it too.

The 'they're a Nazi they deserve anything at all' is not a universally acknowledged reality, much as some of us might like it to be, in part because people like Harry and Michael understand that doing horrible things to other people affects the person doing the horrible things at the same time as it affects the person they are torturing or damning or whatever.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.
 
If we do go for trying to trick him into ranting, we should probably stunt something mocking Kemmler for losing. That seems like it'd wind this guy up for a good long rant. Something like:

-[] Molly gives an almost painfully classic teenage scoff and eye roll. " Well I'm not impressed. How great could he have been if the best he could do was get killed multiple times by the same people?" She says with a shake of her head. "And his legacy is what, some glorified grave robbers pretending that they didn't repeatedly lose to the groups they're mocking for weakness?"
—[] Molly looks at him with condescendingly exaggerated pity and asks "Is there even a point to your life anymore, or are you just holding on to throw a few more spiteful fits before someone who actually matters gets annoyed enough to clean up after your long dead magical sugar daddy?"

Might not be the best phrasing, but if jabbing him right in his frail ego about the fact that his faction is famous for losing I don't know what will.
 
If we do go for trying to trick him into ranting, we should probably stunt something mocking Kemmler for losing. That seems like it'd wind this guy up for a good long rant. Something like:

-[] Molly gives an almost painfully classic teenage scoff and eye roll. " Well I'm not impressed. How great could he have been if the best he could do was get killed multiple times by the same people?" She says with a shake of her head. "And his legacy is what, some glorified grave robbers pretending that they didn't repeatedly lose to the groups they're mocking for weakness?"
—[] Molly looks at him with condescendingly exaggerated pity and asks "Is there even a point to your life anymore, or are you just holding on to throw a few more spiteful fits before someone who actually matters gets annoyed enough to clean up after your long dead magical sugar daddy?"

Might not be the best phrasing, but if jabbing him right in his frail ego about the fact that his faction is famous for losing I don't know what will.
you know shes still raised by michael the guy who thinks denarians are redeemable or at least hopes that to be true. also kind of late for new vote plans well in dp quests at least given he updates every day.
 
you know shes still raised by michael the guy who thinks denarians are redeemable or at least hopes that to be true. also kind of late for new vote plans well in dp quests at least given he updates every day.
That whole stunt is meant to be taken as seriously on our end as the threat to send him to hell.

The point is to piss him off and give him something to snap out a "correction" for in the heat of the moment, not torment him for it's own sake.
 
[X] Try to trick him. (Manipulate + Empathy)
-[X] This man is a talker. Get him talking. Get him ranting. There's nothing so chatty as a man who wants to explain in detail why you're wrong. If you get him detailing what is going on you should be able to pick some clues from it all, or at least give you leads.

Trying stupid bluffs or worse serious threats about fates worse than death is idiotic with Harry and Michael in the room. Not only would they never abide such, and give us trouble just for threatening such, this asshat Nazi knows they would never allow it too.

The 'they're a Nazi they deserve anything at all' is not a universally acknowledged reality, much as some of us might like it to be, in part because people like Harry and Michael understand that doing horrible things to other people affects the person doing the horrible things at the same time as it affects the person they are torturing or damning or whatever.
I totally disagree here.

Molly believes/knows she has a right to use her power, that was clear when the question came on her Crown of Eyes.
She has to use it responsibly, but I think it is appropriate to send a man who has done evil all his life to hell, since that is what killing him propably does anyway, though maybe not to that specific hell.

If we ever buy Life-Spiting-Curse, Murder is Meat or one of the other go-to-hell Charms, I will vote to use it for almost reliable permakills at the appropriate situations.
With the power to Judge comes the right to judge.
 
Last edited:
I totally disagree here.

Molly believes/knows she has a right to use her power, that was clear when the question came on her Crown of Eyes.
She has to use it responsibly, but I think it is appropriate to send a man who has done evil all his life to hell, since that is what killing him propably does anyway, though maybe not to that specific hell.

If we ever buy Life-Spiting-Curse, Murder is Meat or one of the other go-to-hell Charms, I will vote to use it for almost reliable permakills at the appropriate situations.
With the power to Judge comes the right to judge.
we've had our power for a few days and michaels taught us our whole life he who is without sin cast the first stone. Also you know arguably no one deserves eternal punishments oblivion maybe I can't even argue reasonably anything is worth permanent punishment.
 
we've had our power for a few days and michaels taught us our whole life he who is without sin cast the first stone. Also you know arguably no one deserves eternal punishments oblivion maybe I can't even argue reasonably anything is worth permanent punishment.
It isn't permanent.
People in hell die too, usually.
Sure, eaten by demons is not a nice end, but it is an end, we are not dealing with eternity here.
 
It isn't permanent.
People in hell die too, usually.
Sure, eaten by demons is not a nice end, but it is an end, we are not dealing with eternity here.

There is a feature for your hell that makes it so people who die under certain circumstances are brought back to suffer again. The Thousand Hells have that set to 'all deaths unless otherwise proclaimed by the Yama King of the domain'. Now there are ways to be obliterated beyond the capacity of the local hell world to restore you mostly involving stolen treasures and lore even the Yama Kings do not understand, but those are rare.
 
Back
Top