[X] Plan Take All Options

I'm iffy on the Medical Support Commitments as it's probably a 4-5 dice thing. 1 for the development, 3-4 for the deployment. Especially as we're quite deep in a hole for Military. We'll probably have to put most of our free dice there in the third 4 YR plan. But since this is all around helpful and synchonises with our push for medical services recently, I'll say yes.
 
[X] Plan Take All Options

Yeah. For the whole set we're looking at -12 Labor, -24 Energy (?), and -6 Capital Goods.

Honestly I'm most worried about the Labor cost, because at least we know how to supply the needed Energy and Capital Goods. We don't yet have a good handle for how to convert more Capital Goods (or other things) into Labor, and the conversion rate may be unfavorable enough to make scrounging up the Labor very hard.

Maybe just get one armor factory relatively soon, so ground force will have at least a trickle of armor coming in?
 
I think it was mentioned that the Robotics tree would unlock more labor+ options. Ilithid said that we wouldn't get natural labor up from population so efficiency and Robots seem like the only options there.
 
Q1 '54: Shell plants Phase 1
Q2 '54: Reclamator Hub R1N, Zone Suit Factories in Glasgow and New Moscow
Q3 '54: S-MARV fleet R1N, Duqm Hydrofoil shipyards,
Q4 '54: R6 N Marv Hub, Shell Plants Phase 2,
Q1 '55: R6 S Marv Hub, R6N S-Marv fleet, Apollo Fighter factory Valporaiso, Hydrofoil Shipyard Copenhagen.
Q2 '55: Apollo fighter factory Toronto, Shell Plants 3, Ablat development, Advanced Myomer Works.
Q3 '55: Reclamator Hub Y5a, S-Marv fleet R6S,
Q4 '55: Crystal beam laser development, Ablat deployment 1, Remote Weapons System Predator development, Governor Class Cruiser Development, Titan Mk 3 Development, Wolverine Mk 2 Deployment,
Q1 '56: Reclamator Hub R7N, Zone Suit Factory Oslo, Ablat Deployment 2, Governer Shipyard Yokohama, Rapid Fire Lasers Development, Military Security Review
Q2 '56: S-MARV Fleet Y7a, Ablat Deployment 3, Titan Mark 3 Deployment,
Q3 '56: Stealth Disruptor System Development, High Efficency Heat System Development, Orca Refit Package Development, URLS development, QMAAM development, Laser PD Development,
Q4 '56: Governor Class Shipyards Vladivostok and Durban.
Q1 '57: S-Marv Fleet R7N, Long Range Sensor Deployment 1, Governor Shipyard Dakar
Q2 '57: Remote Weapons System Deployment, Universal Rocket Launch System 1

The List of all the military projects we completed this plan so far.
 
I think it was mentioned that the Robotics tree would unlock more labor+ options. Ilithid said that we wouldn't get natural labor up from population so efficiency and Robots seem like the only options there.
As labor surpluses decrease, we will have more projects unlocked that exchange capital goods for freeing up labor. As an example, we recently unlocked the agriculture mechanization project.

As of right now, the capital goods potentially produced by the Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry are not any more or less efficient at freeing up labor than capital goods from any other source.
 
I think it was mentioned that the Robotics tree would unlock more labor+ options. Ilithid said that we wouldn't get natural labor up from population so efficiency and Robots seem like the only options there.

Actually we get Labor from two sources: Exchanging Capital Goods in the Robotics tree for Labor and getting more territory in the Yellow Zones so we get an influx of population to raise our Labor pool. The new refugees we just got should be raising our Labor sometime during the next Plan.
 
Actually we get Labor from two sources: Exchanging Capital Goods in the Robotics tree for Labor and getting more territory in the Yellow Zones so we get an influx of population to raise our Labor pool. The new refugees we just got should be raising our Labor sometime during the next Plan.
The image of Blue Zone capitalists, factory owners and business owners in general all supporting for more Yellow Zone mining expansions, adequate housing and better healthcare, solely for the sake of more productive and cost-efficient labor forces from refugees, is pretty hilarious in my mind.

'We must conquer more Yellow Zone, provide better housing, and better healthcare! (to support our growing businesses!)'
 
Ironic that our policies seem to be shaping up to something the Free Market Party should be going for.
It is then a very good thing then that nearly all eco choices got taken away from us. The Left majority in Parliament will take it off from here on and probably bash our skulls a few times if we do not behave. :whistle:
 
The image of Blue Zone capitalists, factory owners and business owners in general all supporting for more Yellow Zone mining expansions, adequate housing and better healthcare, solely for the sake of more productive and cost-efficient labor forces from refugees, is pretty hilarious in my mind.

'We must conquer more Yellow Zone, provide better housing, and better healthcare! (to support our growing businesses!)'

not to mention expand the available market

Ironic that our policies seem to be shaping up to something the Free Market Party should be going for.

It is then a very good thing then that nearly all eco choices got taken away from us. The Left majority in Parliament will take it off from here on and probably bash our skulls a few times if we do not behave. :whistle:

Oi! *brandishes a hardback Das Kapital threateningly*

No recreating exploitative core-periphery dynamics!
 
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One of the major things I am worried about for the "All the things" plan is the reaction of Parliament - because, from their perspective, this is the Treasury not doing its job.
From their perspective, instead of getting a good deal, we're turning this into a giveaway for the Forgotten - which may have long-term benefits, but that's for the diplomats to figure out. Not the Treasury.

And so I anticipate a number of extra demands from Parliament to make up for this, which will likely distort any plans we've been working on. Possibly another phase of shells and URLS immediately, as well as some other things... I'm not sure what it will be, but I expect it to make any preliminary plans that have been posted pretty much completely impossible.

Edit: Ithillid has said that Parliament probably should slap us for a -16 Leverage deal, but probably won't. So I guess that consequence isn't likely... but I still feel like it's inviting trouble.
 
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[X]Plan Give (almost )everything and take everything
I guess I'll trust the military to know whether having the Forgotten act as forward observers is worth it.
 
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Granted it does take a point from Energy and Capital Goods but I'm not seeing other options to free up labor elsewhere. Unless there's an option to increase Education in Yellow/Green Zones to University level because they have more population than the Blue Zones.
We've been assured there are going to be more options like that one, if and as we maintain a Capital Goods surplus and a Labor shortage. Right now our planners aren't recommending to the Secretary a lot of +Labor projects, because there's just plain not much reason to bother when we still have a considerable labor surplus. The switchover of the agriculture mechanization project is the herald of more similar projects to come, because it's the first area where we see a transition from us needing more food and the mechanization project focusing on this, to us not really needing quantitatively more food and the mechanization project focusing on freeing up manpower.

I'm iffy on the Medical Support Commitments as it's probably a 4-5 dice thing. 1 for the development, 3-4 for the deployment. Especially as we're quite deep in a hole for Military. We'll probably have to put most of our free dice there in the third 4 YR plan. But since this is all around helpful and synchonises with our push for medical services recently, I'll say yes.
I don't think we can afford to go on slinging all our Free dice at Military indefinitely; we need to start making space more of a priority or we won't have a good-ish fallback option if tiberium hulks out somehow or if Kane decides to be an asshole about the TCN. And of course there are all sorts of projects where our infrastructure development is lagging because we have no Free dice to allocate to them, ever, basically.

But the medevac vehicle will help keep ZOCOM up and running, which is a good thing because we lean on them so much.

Maybe just get one armor factory relatively soon, so ground force will have at least a trickle of armor coming in?
I mean we can, but based on past precedent doing things like that doesn't really accomplish much. We'd have to get like 3-4 factories going for them to have much impact on the general war outcomes, I think.

Ironic that our policies seem to be shaping up to something the Free Market Party should be going for.
I mean... not really?

If the Free Market Party were happy, we'd have farmed out basically all our income to grants for giant zaibatsu and we'd basically just be funding tiberium and the military on a budget of maybe 300 R/turn, tops. Yellow Zoners would be toiling in sweatshops with no prospect of better nutrition than fungus bars, probably with as little political representation as the FMP could manage.

We just aren't there. Some of our specific policies, viewed in isolation, are things that the FMP would also be doing in some recognizable form... but the superstructure those policies fit into isn't the same. It's like observing that we walk around on our feet rather than doing handstands all the time, like a bunch of capitalists. It's kind of facile.

It is then a very good thing then that nearly all eco choices got taken away from us. The Left majority in Parliament will take it off from here on and probably bash our skulls a few times if we do not behave. :whistle:
Except that the analysis you're replying to isn't really even true, the problem isn't that we've pursued pro-FMP policies, it's that out of character the thread/Discord discussion surrounding economic right/left decisions got too vicious for the QM's patience.

Let's not make pretensions about what's been happening here.

And so I anticipate a number of extra demands from Parliament to make up for this, which will likely distort any plans we've been working on. Possibly another phase of shells and URLS immediately, as well as some other things... I'm not sure what it will be, but I expect it to make any preliminary plans that have been posted pretty much completely impossible.
Nitpick: Shell and URLS phases are pretty much exactly the kind of stuff we'd want to do anyway, because they're impactful on the military situation while being relatively cheap per die. It's the fancy chrome-plated stuff like sensor refits that we may not be able to afford in 2058.

Edit: Ithillid has said that Parliament probably should slap us for a -16 Leverage deal, but probably won't. So I guess that consequence isn't likely... but I still feel like it's inviting trouble.
Well, Granger has a lot of political clout at this point, even if he usually doesn't throw it around too hard. This seems like the kind of deal he could swing, especially since there are weird little pockets of pro-Forgotten sentiment in odd corners of GDI's political structure (e.g. Second Tiberium War veterans).
 
We're in a weird position, where (if I'm reading things right) the Treasury is actually significantly more socially and economically progressive than the legislature as a result of Granger's leftist signalling attracting more leftists who all just... blobbed around the central planning apparatus. This is, to my knowledge, kind of historically unprecedented so we don't have a lot of anecdotal data to draw on about how the legislature will react.

Having said that, the political leverage mechanic doesn't really take into account the externalities of some of the options. The boost to Scrin research for instance could literally make the difference between us getting our own TCN or not, and on a balance of probabilities I think it's well worth the resources we sink into this. The direct air support option directly benefits us by allowing us to strike at NOD deeper into their territory. Delta research could open up whole new fields of scientific inquiry. If anything you could say that the Treasury sees value in these proposals that the legislature has overlooked.
 
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We're in a weird position, where (if I'm reading things right) the Treasury is actually significantly more socially and economically progressive than the legislature as a result of Granger's leftist signalling attracting more leftists who all just... blobbed around the central planning apparatus. This is, to my knowledge, kind of historically unprecedented so we don't have a lot of anecdotal data to draw on about how the legislature will react.
You are. Granger's positions put him on the far left of the Market Socialists and middle right of the Socialists. While the Developmentalists love you, that is more because in the seven years since the war wrecked everything, you are over halfway to restoring prewar levels of economic activity, albeit on the back of almost pure Tiberium extraction and central planning rather than handing resources and materials over to the Free Market.
 
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