I'll vote after work, around 12 hrs from now, but I'd like to ask the Forgotten if they could facilitate in moving YZ civilians into GDI territory. Or is that too dangerous?
Mostly just too much. Remember. The Forgotten are most definitely not a major power in any sense of the word. There are about 200,000 -250,000 of them all told, so trying to have them help the 990 Million in the Yellow Zones is a bit, er, much.
 
[X] Plan Take All Options
-[X] Initial Forgotten Integration
-[X] Delta Studies
-[X] Reverse Engineering Assistance
-[X] Forgotten Biosamples
-[X] Initiative Communications Support
-[X] Forgotten Agricultural Support
-[X] Strategic Combat Support
-[X] Medical Support Commitments

Yeah all the options please. We need to get the Forgotten to feel comfortable in getting into collaborations with GDI. I can rework my plan to fit all the needs of this vote in a single turn and then the follow up can be done by the end of 2058. So this is easily done.

[] Integrating the Forgotten
-[] Initial Forgotten Integration
-[] Delta Studies
-[] Reverse Engineering Assistance
-[] Forgotten Biosamples
-[] Initiative Communications Support
-[] Strategic Combat Support
-[] Medical Support Commitments

So this plan takes everything and gives everything besides the Agricultural Support, Under the assumption that they buy food from us already, And Them having that as there primary food source would increase the initial integration.

I just...Imperialism Ho! just about sums this sort of logic up.
 
[X] Plan Take All Options

Will say this though. Giving the Forgotten permission to call in air strikes on Nod is a further escalation. We're hammering them and we should expect blowback. Although dropping some 500 pounders on them in an area they think is safe? That will no doubt bring a smile to my face.
 
Some info from the Discord:

Ithilid said:
[9:10 PM]
Ground Forces would absolutely love if you could get them next gen APCs to go with the suits, but if you can only get one or the other, suits are definitely the way to go.
[9:10 PM]
When it comes to Ground Forces priorities though, it looks something like this.
1. Zone Armor.
2. Artillery, Fix it.
3. Consumables
4. Vehicles.

One thing to note is that URLS contributes to artillery I believe by providing enough rockets for long-range rocket artillery.
 
Note, this is something where I am trying to write that into the update, and will be expanding on it next plan as an ongoing thing.

Edit:
  • Ground Forces
For the Ground Forces, the highest priority must be the prompt delivery of zone armor as soon as possible. The second is a prompt solution to the problems with the supply of shells and artillery accuracy. While current supplies can fight the low intensity war the characterizes everyday activities, it cannot meet the needs of large scale and longer term engagements. Third is consumables. While currently consumables supplies are enough for smaller scale operations, general operations exhaust supplies quickly.
Currently, provision of vehicles is generally sufficient. However, many of the existing designs lack the space or other requirements for enhancing capabilities, and will require replacements during the coming years.

Might well end up looking something like this, but I am still playing around with it.
 
Last edited:
Alright so let's see what are the things everyone agrees on with a tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Dmol8 on Sep 15, 2021 at 1:58 AM, finished with 100 posts and 38 votes.


Yeah OK almost all votes are in favor of both projects that are going to need to be done before the year ends. New version of the plan to account for this:

[ ]Plan In the Eye of the Maelstrom v3.1:
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 95 Resources:
-[ ]Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 138/600 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ]Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 538/640 20 Resources per Die, 4 Die = 80 Resources
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 80 Resources:
-[ ] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 970/1200 15 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 60 Resources
-[ ] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1) 0/160 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 60 Resources:
-[ ] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 0/250 15 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 45 Resources
-[ ] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 184/200 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 Resources:
-[ ] Agricultural Support 0/150 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Spider Cotton Development 22/40 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 6 Free Dice 220 Resources:
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 538/640 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Tiberium Stabilizers 674/2000 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 10 Fusion Dice = 200
Orbital 3/3 Dice 60 Resources:
-[ ] GDIS Pathfinder 158/300 30 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 60 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 1 Die
Services 4/4 Dice 35 Resources:
-[ ] Expand Medical Schools 207/300 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Indoor park programs 106/150 5 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 5 Resources
Military 5/5 Dice 65 Resources:
-[ ] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 15 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 45 Resources
-[ ] Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle Development 0/40 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Havoc Scout Mech Development 0/30 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice:
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 2 Die
-[ ] Endorse a Candidate

95+80+60+40+220+60+35+65 = 655/655

So I replaced the Cruiser Shipyards with the development of Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle and the Havoc Mech since the former is required and the latter is both a bonus to Red Zone operations and gives us a Space Mech development in CraterQuest. I used the 20 Resources gained in that way to spend the last Die in Heavy Industry on Nuuk as we will need those robots for the mines next plan so we need to do two phases of it.

Otherwise it is the same plan: A surge build on Mecca to free up Dice the turn after the next, 10 Dice on Tiberium Stabilizers to get it s close to done as we can, 4 Dice on North Boston to get it done, getting Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers mostly done and finishing Chemical Fertilizers, developing Spider Cotton again, GDIS Pathfinder getting mostly done, hoping Expand Medical Schools gets done while finishing Indoor park programs and getting Domestic Animal Programs mostly done and of course the Orca Refit is even more important since I voted for Strategic Combat Support.

To be clear the turn after the next if we have no free Dice on the Military all that is getting done there are the two remaining Governor Shipyards.
 
Alright so let's see what are the things everyone agrees on with a tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Dmol8 on Sep 15, 2021 at 1:58 AM, finished with 100 posts and 38 votes.


Yeah OK almost all votes are in favor of both projects that are going to need to be done before the year ends. New version of the plan to account for this:

[ ]Plan In the Eye of the Maelstrom v3.1:
Infrastructure 5/5 Dice 95 Resources:
-[ ]Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 138/600 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
-[ ]Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 538/640 20 Resources per Die, 4 Die = 80 Resources
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 80 Resources:
-[ ] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 970/1200 15 Resources per Die, 4 Dice = 60 Resources
-[ ] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 1) 0/160 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 Dice 60 Resources:
-[ ] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 0/250 15 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 45 Resources
-[ ] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 184/200 15 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 15 Resources
Agriculture 3/3 Dice 40 Resources:
-[ ] Agricultural Support 0/150 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Spider Cotton Development 22/40 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
Tiberium 5/5 Dice + 6 Free Dice 220 Resources:
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 538/640 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Tiberium Stabilizers 674/2000 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 10 Fusion Dice = 200
Orbital 3/3 Dice 60 Resources:
-[ ] GDIS Pathfinder 158/300 30 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 60 Resources
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 1 Die
Services 4/4 Dice 35 Resources:
-[ ] Expand Medical Schools 207/300 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
-[ ] Indoor park programs 106/150 5 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 5 Resources
Military 5/5 Dice 65 Resources:
-[ ] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 15 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 45 Resources
-[ ] Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle Development 0/40 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[ ] Havoc Scout Mech Development 0/30 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
Bureaucracy 3/3 Dice:
-[ ] Security Reviews Orbital 2 Die
-[ ] Endorse a Candidate

95+80+60+40+220+60+35+65 = 655/655

So I replaced the Cruiser Shipyards with the development of Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle and the Havoc Mech since the former is required and the latter is both a bonus to Red Zone operations and gives us a Space Mech development in CraterQuest. I used the 20 Resources gained in that way to spend the last Die in Heavy Industry on Nuuk as we will need those robots for the mines next plan so we need to do two phases of it.

Otherwise it is the same plan: A surge build on Mecca to free up Dice the turn after the next, 10 Dice on Tiberium Stabilizers to get it s close to done as we can, 4 Dice on North Boston to get it done, getting Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers mostly done and finishing Chemical Fertilizers, developing Spider Cotton again, GDIS Pathfinder getting mostly done, hoping Expand Medical Schools gets done while finishing Indoor park programs and getting Domestic Animal Programs mostly done and of course the Orca Refit is even more important since I voted for Strategic Combat Support.

To be clear the turn after the next if we have no free Dice on the Military all that is getting done there are the two remaining Governor Shipyards.
Should we not leave Some service stuff for the successor to build since he could probably can get political points out of it or we don't have to worried since there are always more stuff to do?
 
Two things. First off, given our current edge in sensor tech, infantry drones might be better for ZORECON in the short term, and would definitely have wider applications. Second, it's really tempting to go ham on the Scrin research while we still have Granger's beefy bonus.
 
Should we not leave Some service stuff for the successor to build since he could probably can get political points out of it or we don't have to worried since there are always more stuff to do?

The Successor Seo Thoki has MARV Hubs to work with and a whole other number of stuff. We should do stuff that brings in PS to Granger with Granger. We will have a lot more +PS stuff to work with Seo and we will also have to wrangle -PS stuff more often with him.
 
[X] Integrating the Forgotten
-[X] Initial Forgotten Integration
-[X] Delta Studies
-[X] Reverse Engineering Assistance
-[X] Forgotten Biosamples
-[X] Initiative Communications Support
-[X] Strategic Combat Support
-[X] Medical Support Commitments


...Yes Imperialism Ho!, I want to integrate them not have a foreign nation in our nation, Next Conference we can give them stuff to make their own food, Because they already make there own food, I'm pretty sure they just buy stuff from us when they need it. (The Biosamples im pretty sure are from there own food production) So Basically the way I see it, giving them the aquiponics just makes them completely food independent from us, which during initial integration efforts isn't something we want.
 
[X] Plan Take All Options

A justified worry if you're arming sharks around the world with material you otherwise would have concentrated solely in the mediterranean sea you intended to secure. The actual overlap this would have with red zone operations is more along the lines of the Red Zone Containment Lines, really.
No.

Because that's not been how global military projects in this game have worked.

Helping the Forgotten to blow Nod stuff up is likely to increase our ability to blow Nod stuff up in the Red Zones or at least not reduce it on net. Because those airstrikes will still be blowing up Nod stuff, and now they'll be blowing stuff up at the behest of people who operate more freely in the Red and deep Yellow Zones than anyone GDI has except the gutsiest ZOCOM troopers.

Now, that will be a global phenomenon. The thing is, troops are fungible. If it takes us nine units of forward observers to locate and target the same number of Nod bases when it used to take ten, then that means we can have more forward observers in some single key location in the world, because making life easier for troops around the world means there are more troops to spare in a specific, critical location. Such as a glacier mine.

I was expecting them to be more people smugglers rather than rescue raids but fair enough.
As a general rule they live in places more tiberium-infested than the places the Yellow Zoners live in, if only because they can survive tiberium exposure that would kill a non-Forgotten and so Darwinian pressures apply.

In many cases they are just plain on the wrong side of the line to help us. It's like asking the people in Siberia to help make it easier for refugees from China to get to India; even if they're willing to help, not only are both China and India much more heavily populated, but the refugees have no reason to go through Siberia to get to the place they want to be..

For the Ground Forces, the highest priority must be the prompt delivery of zone armor as soon as possible. The second is a prompt solution to the problems with the supply of shells and artillery accuracy. While current supplies can fight the low intensity war the characterizes everyday activities, it cannot meet the needs of large scale and longer term engagements. Third is consumables. While currently consumables supplies are enough for smaller scale operations, general operations exhaust supplies quickly.
Currently, provision of vehicles is generally sufficient. However, many of the existing designs lack the space or other requirements for enhancing capabilities, and will require replacements during the coming years.

Might well end up looking something like this, but I am still playing around with it.
[grunts]

Zone armor for the Ground Forces is just so goddamn expensive that I don't think we can do it on a full scale- though partial rollout might be attainable once we get Nuuk rolling properly up to Phase 1+2+3 or if Spider Cotton turns out to be really good.

The artillery crisis, on the other hand, is something we can actually solve in a reasonably timely manner with a combination of ULRS, Shell Plants, and Artillery Development. However, if we do too much more Shell Plants before Artillery Development it may actually cause problems because we'll end up having to retrofit factories to make ammunition for guns they weren't designed for.

Two things. First off, given our current edge in sensor tech, infantry drones might be better for ZORECON in the short term, and would definitely have wider applications.
You're not wrong, but it's kind of irrelevant if we don't have budget space to do much for the Steel Talons and one of our choices involves breaking a promise while the other doesn't.

Second, it's really tempting to go ham on the Scrin research while we still have Granger's beefy bonus.
You are not wrong, but our commitment to doing Pathfinder is sucking up a lot of the "discretionary budget" resources we'd otherwise have after spending on the stabilizer.

what about applying the same sort of self guiding systems the GDI use for their grenades to their artillery shells to improve accuracy ?
I suspect that guidance system isn't resilient enough to survive being shot out of a cannon. Historically that's been a major problem for guided artillery shells.
 
what about applying the same sort of self guiding systems the GDI use for their grenades to their artillery shells to improve accuracy ?
There is a reason why I mentioned in my semi canon omake on railgun canister/shrapnel shell that it took some serious experience and effort on VE to successfully get the railgun versions of the shells to work.

A typical grenade launcher has between 180-250 m/s as their muzzle velocity. That is fairly survivable for a complex fuze with micro electronics. The cannon on the M1A2 tan, the Rheinmetall Rh-120, can reach a muzzle velocity of 1,750 m/s and still successfully fire a ATGM round. Chemical propellant tank guns tend to max out at 2Km/s (2000 m/s). Railgun systems can hit 3Km/s (3000 m/s) relatively easily. That is far more than normal complex fuses with electronics have been shown to survive easily.*

*Please note that I am using muzzle velocity as a rough proxy for max acceleration. It is max acceleration that we are most worried about here.
 
They sure are.
It would be good to get that body armour upgrade rolling. But yeah, I expect we'll need the Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants running first.
Yeah. For the whole set we're looking at -12 Labor, -24 Energy (?), and -6 Capital Goods.

Honestly I'm most worried about the Labor cost, because at least we know how to supply the needed Energy and Capital Goods. We don't yet have a good handle for how to convert more Capital Goods (or other things) into Labor, and the conversion rate may be unfavorable enough to make scrounging up the Labor very hard.
 
Honestly I'm most worried about the Labor cost, because at least we know how to supply the needed Energy and Capital Goods. We don't yet have a good handle for how to convert more Capital Goods (or other things) into Labor, and the conversion rate may be unfavorable enough to make scrounging up the Labor very hard.
Well we could start with this option:

[ ] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1)
While GDI's current agricultural methods are not particularly labor intensive, a widespread deployment of additional mechanization and statistical analysis should allow for the reduction in overall labor committed to the agricultural sector, and allow that workforce to be allocated elsewhere.
(Progress 0/150: 15 resources per die) (++ Labor, - Energy, - Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/250: 15 resources per die) (+++ Labor, - Energy, - Capital Goods)

Granted it does take a point from Energy and Capital Goods but I'm not seeing other options to free up labor elsewhere. Unless there's an option to increase Education in Yellow/Green Zones to University level because they have more population than the Blue Zones.
 
Back
Top