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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Simon_Jester said:
What do we do to bring the project costs down? They're pretty steep.
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Build them. If you look at all the phases of for example the Lunar mines, you can see that each phase is a little cheaper than the last one. That actually applies across all of your lunar mining projects, as infrastructure for one actually also applies to the others, but since it is several different projects, I don't know what order you will do them in. So I can only show a single chain.
Simon_Jester said:
Hm, I don't like the scattershotted approach to military dice, and would prefer to shift the ASAT/Plasma dice to other projects to conserve resources (and use them in Q3 and Q4). Tactical plasma weapons in particular, well... maybe. It's too late to integrate them into the initial ULRS rollout, but @Ithillid , unless I'm much mistaken, part of the point of ULRS is that it's going to be relatively easy to integrate new warhead types and missile technology into our existing systems because they're all modular now.. Hopefully any resulting deployment of the plasma-warhead missiles will be relatively small in scope to get them running? Or am I being optimistic...?
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Plasma warheads would never be cheap, (because cutting edge military technology never is) but with URLS you only have to do one project to get most of the military on the plasma warhead standard, rather than (like for example the laser technology) having a series of separate projects that each give their branch the laser system that they want.
 
Ithillid said:
Build them. If you look at all the phases of for example the Lunar mines, you can see that each phase is a little cheaper than the last one. That actually applies across all of your lunar mining projects, as infrastructure for one actually also applies to the others, but since it is several different projects, I don't know what order you will do them in. So I can only show a single chain.
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Ah. So in effect, nearly all lunar resource extraction projects carry a hidden "-5/10/15/whatever to the cost of all other lunar resource extraction projects" tag?
 
[X] Plan Optimal Fusion and Pathfinder
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder

Since my preferred plan is 13 votes behind the lead, I'm approval voting in favor of the cool spaceship.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Ah. So in effect, nearly all lunar resource extraction projects carry a hidden "-5/10/15/whatever to the cost of all other lunar resource extraction projects" tag?
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Not just lunar resource extraction projects. Doing a bunch of mines (for example) paves the way for lunar stations and even lunar cities. The reason that it is not noted is that it does not apply evenly, and some discounts are only applied after a certain number or mix of phases, or when a given phase and another project is completed. And if you had gone another route, prioritizing Shala and Colombia, and working from there, you would have gotten expensive lunar settlements, and cheap lunar mines, while here you are getting expensive mines, and cheaper settlements.

Edit:
[ ] Aldrin Base (Phase 1)
With the Earth becoming ever more hostile to life, Aldrin base in the sea of tranquility will be the first human settlement on another solar body. While the first phase will be almost entirely dedicated to building up the life support systems, including a pair of fusion reactors to crack oxygen out of the lunar regolith, it is a requirement before the site can be opened for human habitation.
(Progress 0/800: 30 resources per die) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/1600: 30 resources per die) (1k population) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/3200: 30 resources per die) (5k population) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/6400: 30 resources per die) (10k population) (Fusion)

However, this is only right now, where you have a long term build strategy, and have to haul every, single, bit of everything, from aggregate to fusion components out from Earth, versus where you are likely to be in a few years, where you can source all of the cladding and a fair amount of the structural materials locally, and only have to haul in manufactured goods. Along with being able to use those same cargo runs to deliver lunar resources back to earth.
 
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Ithillid said:
Not just lunar resource extraction projects. Doing a bunch of mines (for example) paves the way for lunar stations and even lunar cities. The reason that it is not noted is that it does not apply evenly, and some discounts are only applied after a certain number or mix of phases, or when a given phase and another project is completed. And if you had gone another route, prioritizing Shala and Colombia, and working from there, you would have gotten expensive lunar settlements, and cheap lunar mines, while here you are getting expensive mines, and cheaper settlements.
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Okay, to be fair I should have spoken more narrowly.

[ ] Aldrin Base (Phase 1)
With the Earth becoming ever more hostile to life, Aldrin base in the sea of tranquility will be the first human settlement on another solar body. While the first phase will be almost entirely dedicated to building up the life support systems, including a pair of fusion reactors to crack oxygen out of the lunar regolith, it is a requirement before the site can be opened for human habitation.
(Progress 0/800: 30 resources per die) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/1600: 30 resources per die) (1k population) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/3200: 30 resources per die) (5k population) (Fusion)
(Progress 0/6400: 30 resources per die) (10k population) (Fusion)

However, this is only right now, where you have a long term build strategy, and have to haul every, single, bit of everything, from aggregate to fusion components out from Earth, versus where you are likely to be in a few years, where you can source all of the cladding and a fair amount of the structural materials locally, and only have to haul in manufactured goods. Along with being able to use those same cargo runs to deliver lunar resources back to earth.
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Ahh. Yeah, I can definitely see that. By the way, is the part where the supported population increases fivefold from Phase 2 to Phase 3 with a doubling in cost, but then only twofold from Phase 3 to Phase 4 with a similar doubling in cost, "a feature not a bug?" Because if you're interested in smoothing that out, the obvious trick would be something like:

1k, 3k, 10k, 30k, 100k, ...

You get a smoother exponential progression that way.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Ahh. Yeah, I can definitely see that. By the way, is the part where the supported population increases fivefold from Phase 2 to Phase 3 with a doubling in cost, but then only twofold from Phase 3 to Phase 4 with a similar doubling in cost, "a feature not a bug?" Because if you're interested in smoothing that out, the obvious trick would be something like:
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It is. The first 6k is more pioneer oriented, while the latter 10k is bringing it up to more standard conditions, including a lot of things that are not actually immediately needed for life.
 
Fusion dice are explained somewhere back in the first year or two of the game when we unlocked our first one, I forget exactly what turn that was. Point is though, yeah, 33% discount on anything that can use them. So a 30R project becomes 20R, and a 15R becomes 10R, and..... I think those are the only two price tags we've seen on fusion dice projects because Ithillid is trying to keep the math simple with nice round multiples of 5.
 
carterhall said:
Shoot. Where are the Fusion dice explained? Is it blanket -10R for each die?

Some fair arguments, Simon_Jester. I've made some edits.
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It's here:

Ithillid said:
Edit: Clarification
Fusion Dice cut the cost of an investment in space by 1/3rd. So something that costs 30 costs 20 when using a lift die.
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It's from the start of the third quarter in 2051 turn. So @Crazycryodude is right 2nd year of in-game time.
 
Durabys said:
Are there other such technological/industrial/logistics/infra projects which could cut investment for all space projects?
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Nothing nearly as fast/simple as fusion. Everything else is pretty much a series of marginal gains, at fairly sizable costs. Mostly this is because Fusion was supposed to be how you got around the system for the entire game, even if you did not roll any of the Gdrive technologies.
 
I guess the best way to cut costs would be building a space elevator. Not that we ever could given how NOD loves to blow up our nice things. A target that large, expensive, and vulnerable wouldn't last long.
 
carterhall said:
Shoot. Where are the Fusion dice explained? Is it blanket -10R for each die?

Some fair arguments, Simon_Jester. I've made some edits.
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Interesting. Would you mind reposting the plan, or linking back to it?

Durabys said:
Are there other such technological/industrial/logistics/infra projects which could cut investment for all space projects?
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Well, it seems like doing a bunch of moon-base stuff reduces the investment cost of further moon-base stuff, but that's more of a gradual/subtle effect...

trooperist said:
I guess the best way to cut costs would be building a space elevator. Not that we ever could given how NOD loves to blow up our nice things. A target that large, expensive, and vulnerable wouldn't last long.
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Yeah. A launch loop might be tenable, but even that is fairly vulnerable, especially with Nod having some fighters that don't suck these days and that could be used to hit a high profile target fairly hard.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Interesting. Would you mind reposting the plan, or linking back to it?
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[] Plan Rage, rage against the dying of the light v.2
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 95R
--[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 35/600 1 die (15R) (High Priority)
--[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 200/640 4 dice (80R)
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 75R
--[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 628/1200 5 dice (75R)
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 30R
--[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 0/200 2 dice (30R)
--[] Pharmaceutical Synthesis Centers 0/250 2 dice (30R) (High Priority)
-[] Agriculture 3/3 dice 60R
--[] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4) 44/160 1 die (10R)
--[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 1 die (15R)
--[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 0/40 1 die (20R) (High Priority)
-[] Tiberium 5/5 dice +6 Free dice 205R
--[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 1 die (25R)
--[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 200/640 1 die (20R)
--[] Tiberium Stabilizer Deployment 0/2000 8 dice (8 Fusion) (170R) (Very High Priority)
--[] Security Review 1 die
-[] Orbital 3/3 dice +1 Fusion die 60R
--[] Expanded Orbital Communications Network (Phase 3) 13/135 1 die (15R)
--[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 5) 42/90 1 die (15R)
--[] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1) 321/350 1 Fusion die (30R)
-[] Services 4/4 dice 40R
--[] Expand Medical Schools 0/300 4 dice (40R)
-[] Military 5/5 dice 65R
--[] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 225/350 2 dice (20R)
--[] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1) 235/300 1 die (15R) (High Priority)
--[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards
--- [] Rosyth 0/185 1 die (20R)
--[] Havoc Scout Mech Development 0/30 1 die (10R) (High Priority)
-[] Bureaucracy 2/2 dice
--[] Security Review Tiberium DC55 2 dice

Total cost: 635/640R
Edits: Changed the Agriculture projects around, fixed the Free dice and Fusion dice allocations, but still dropped 1 die from the Stabilizers. Added Orbital Communications.

I wasn't sure if the system would double-count my vote or just ignore it, so I dropped all the Xs.
 
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