- Location
- canada
Maybe it's because it didn't have the word 'Plan' at the start of the plan name to be counted with?
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
But I want to use one Fusion die to finish the Lunar Regolith mining cheaperly.
That 10R may not look like a huge saving by itself; but if we, the Treasury, cannot be seen to spend efficiently, then how can we expect the average GDI citizen to not spend all their allocation on ersatz-Chocolate Entari Pudding?
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder
Could we get a Thunderchild out there someday?
Could we get a Thunderchild out there someday?
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What about Nale Tasih?
Have humans been sailors for a million years?
A growing collection of bones and tools suggest early humans built boats too, which would transform our view on how smart they were
www.newscientist.com
Or oldest known ship? The Pesse?
List of oldest surviving ships - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I mean, let's give it something different as a name than the overused cliché Greco-Roman naming scheme used in nearly every western sci-fi.
Last edited:
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Optimal Fusion and Pathfinder
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The QM appears to have dropped the option because he's tired of the political attack dog mindset blowing up in the thread every time the subject of left-leaning political reforms is discussed. Which personally I think is a shame, but I can see why it happened after enough breaches of the peace.
I am reminded of one of Aesop's fables. A dog is crossing a bridge has a bone in his mouth. He looks down- there, in the water, is another bone! He takes it into his head to take the other dog's bone too... so he barks angrily, how dare that dog have a bone just as nice as his... And of course his bone falls into the water and is gone.
When a person is winning, continuing to display aggression and insecurity towards those around them becomes very counterproductive.
What do we do to bring the project costs down? They're pretty steep.
To be fair, we also had occasional shitposters coming in and saying "y'all're a bunch of stupid commies" or something... But that tended to be more of a drive-by thing, as opposed to the sustained barrage fire of the leftist circular firing squad battles between the market socialists and the command economy socialists.
I mean, you're right, but whatever mutations tiberium wants to try, this satellite network will make its job harder.
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder
Takareer
Words and feathers
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I agree, that was my point - that is, tiberium mutations are very threatening, thus it makes sense there would be support to stop them.
[X] Plan Optimal Fusion and Pathfinder
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
ON BEATING THE LYSENKOISM OUT OF TIBERIUM
ON CAFFEINE
On the other hand, it looks like we're going to be doing a heavy push for kittens and children playing in the park this year regardless of whether we pursue caffeinated kudzu development. So we're at least making respectable gestures in that direction.
Say what you will about kudzu, nobody ever accused it of growing slowly. Usually the kinds of things people say about kudzu, well...
Tiberium: "...Dad?"
Approval-voting.
[X] Plan Steady Balance
Benny from the Lego Movie would be angry with me if I didn't vote to build the cool spaceship.
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder.
(Yes, we'll predictably have huge Blue Zone Arcology commitments in 2058, but since we're realistically not spending any dice on Arcologies this year beyond the barest minimum, we might as well do all in our power to get other Infrastructure commitments that are even less desirable in 2057Q4 or 2058 out of the way first...)
I don't know about you, but before I do a giant 2000-point megaproject that specifically fucks over tiberium's capacity to rampage unchecked across the globe, I want to do a very careful sweep for Nod infiltrators. It's like the ASAT expansion we're planning. It's not about wasting energy, it's about taking the time to do the job properly.
ON CAFFEINE
You're totally right, and caffeinated kudzu (this is what we're talking about, to be clear) is far from a bad idea.
On the other hand, it looks like we're going to be doing a heavy push for kittens and children playing in the park this year regardless of whether we pursue caffeinated kudzu development. So we're at least making respectable gestures in that direction.
That's why we're talking about developing and starting to farm caffeinated kudzu plants.
Say what you will about kudzu, nobody ever accused it of growing slowly. Usually the kinds of things people say about kudzu, well...
Tiberium: "...Dad?"
Hm, I don't like the scattershotted approach to military dice, and would prefer to shift the ASAT/Plasma dice to other projects to conserve resources (and use them in Q3 and Q4). Tactical plasma weapons in particular, well... maybe. It's too late to integrate them into the initial ULRS rollout, but @Ithillid , unless I'm much mistaken, part of the point of ULRS is that it's going to be relatively easy to integrate new warhead types and missile technology into our existing systems because they're all modular now.. Hopefully any resulting deployment of the plasma-warhead missiles will be relatively small in scope to get them running? Or am I being optimistic...?
Hmm. Synthesis Centers does give us an attractive Light Industry option at acceptably low dice costs, so that's not a bad idea at all. My own plan's surplus Resource budget would have meshed well with this.
While I'm supportive of doing four dice on Expand Medical Schools because of a sincere perception that getting it done faster is worth the 20% risk of wasting 10 R on a die... that perception was partly because I honestly didn't think we could/should do anything else with the dice. Now that a good and attractive alternative is available, the merits of slow-walking are growing on me.
Hm. I don't like continuing to ignore the Talons, but if we're gonna ignore them it should be for something important in its own right, like the cruiser shipyards. I can work with this.
Approval-voting.
[X] Plan Steady Balance
Hrmm, quite possibly... ehh. you know what, I'll take it.
Benny from the Lego Movie would be angry with me if I didn't vote to build the cool spaceship.
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder.
Plan slows down Mecca; I'm not a fan because I don't think we're that hard up for Logistics. I'd rather slam through this stage of Mecca and then build the railroads. Especially since railroads are cheaper per die, which makes them more attractive in 2058 when we're hard up for Resources anyway.
(Yes, we'll predictably have huge Blue Zone Arcology commitments in 2058, but since we're realistically not spending any dice on Arcologies this year beyond the barest minimum, we might as well do all in our power to get other Infrastructure commitments that are even less desirable in 2057Q4 or 2058 out of the way first...)
Three dice on Chemical Fertilizers is probably a bad idea because there's no real reason NOT to slow-walk it. As long as it completes by Q4, we're happy. The Reykjavik plant is frankly probably also a bad idea, because it's just not that efficient a +Capital Goods option compared to North Boston which we're already working on, or Nuuk which we can work on in the near future. I'm not against it indefinitely, but when we're this hard up for Resources to finish a ton of expensive projects, it seems like a bad investment.
Realistically this is a bit of a "dog chases car" scenario. There's no plausible way that we're going to actually deploy both of these in the same next few turns along with everything else going on. We'd do better to concentrate on actually finishing the aquaponics bays and doing the developments one at a time.
Aaaand no way am I cool with this, for reasons discussed. It's a crippling blow to our aspirations to finish the stabilizers before the end of the year, because with only three dice on the project, we'd need 20-21 dice just to have a roughly even chance of finishing... Even with literally every Free die in Q3 and Q4 on Tiberium, and only one Tiberium die per quarter put on Mecca, we end up with a less than 50% chance of completing the project by our admittedly self-imposed deadline.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
ON SERVICES
ON TIB-SATS
The problem is that if we start rolling poorly, the variance increases. The bad scenarios where we're in the 5th or 10th percentile of luck can mean "we roll 24 dice and the last eight underperform so we end up needing 26 instead of 24." But it can also mean the first eight dice underperform... at which point we have a very similar probability spread but more variance as to exactly how many dice it's gonna take. This isn't a problem for projects we can slow-walk, but this isn't one of those, so we wind up with more uncertainty and more risk of overcorrecting.
It's much better all around if we only have 300-500 Progress left to go on the last turn of the project, than if we have more like 600-800 Progress to go, even if we can totally make up 800 Progress in one turn if the dice are kind to us.
That's more time in which to finish evacuating the Earth.
Also... Well, a lot of us would like to do Enterprise Phase 4 if not Phase 5 before starting Shala and Columbia, because that way we get more cost bonuses. On the other hand, there are disadvantages to delaying those, so it's an issue.
You're quite right, but that can just mean "roll two or three dice on this." Remember that we don't want the project to actually complete before 2058Q1, and with us rocking a +30 bonus on Services, well... even three dice gives us a slim but real chance of pulling it off. So that's basically "put two of our twelve Services dice from now to the end of the year on it," and we don't need to be picky about which ones.
ON TIB-SATS
I respect it but I want to stick to a nine-die Stabilizers plan. I kind of like the security of thinking we're likely to have wiggle room to maaaybe not actually have to throw 8-9 dice at the stabilizer on the last turn, while also covering our bases in case we're chronically unlucky and wind up needing 25-26 dice to finish the project overall.
The problem is that if we start rolling poorly, the variance increases. The bad scenarios where we're in the 5th or 10th percentile of luck can mean "we roll 24 dice and the last eight underperform so we end up needing 26 instead of 24." But it can also mean the first eight dice underperform... at which point we have a very similar probability spread but more variance as to exactly how many dice it's gonna take. This isn't a problem for projects we can slow-walk, but this isn't one of those, so we wind up with more uncertainty and more risk of overcorrecting.
It's much better all around if we only have 300-500 Progress left to go on the last turn of the project, than if we have more like 600-800 Progress to go, even if we can totally make up 800 Progress in one turn if the dice are kind to us.
You're not wrong, but I'd rather frontload than backload, as a rule.
I think "Stabilize" is a nine-die plan though. Maybe I'm confused?
Honestly, the best thing we CAN do for space investment right now is the stabilizers. Because that buys us significantly more time (about 40% more than we had, give or take, arguably more because slower mutation means we can push tiberium back farther before each round of mutation).
That's more time in which to finish evacuating the Earth.
Also... Well, a lot of us would like to do Enterprise Phase 4 if not Phase 5 before starting Shala and Columbia, because that way we get more cost bonuses. On the other hand, there are disadvantages to delaying those, so it's an issue.
Two dice on Mecca is slow-walking relative to the scale of the project. We don't need the Energy or Logistics that badly right this turn. By contrast we have people screaming at us about building more arcologies and that's a long-lead project where we need to get out in front of it.
So... are we just going to fuck off and forget about North Boston in the middle of construction, then?
Perennials doesn't really do anything to help us with the Plan's food targets because of how slow the spool-up is. We need options that can produce a crop this year, not four years from now, to hit that. There are other ways to get Political Support, too, especially under Services.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
No, "Stabilize! Stabilize!" Has 8 dice on Stabilizers, 1 on Mecca, 1 on Security. The last Free Die is in Military.
- Location
- South Africa
[X] Plan Optimal Fusion and Pathfinder
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[grunts]
Hm. I... am going to do a bit of thinking about that. On the one hand, only eight dice on stabilizers. On the other hand, Steel Talons research.
Ah. Sorry. I misunderstood.
Honestly, my only real objection is that Johannesburg Personal Robotics is a waste. It gives us things we don't need, consuming Resources that we do need. Just the fact that it doesn't cost -'s on any of our indicators isn't a good reason to use it, because every project is, if nothing else, -Resources.
I'm vaguely grumpy about ignoring the Steel Talons for another turn and think three dice on URLS is more than really necessary, but it's not a bad idea as such.
There are slight savings to be had by doing Indoor Parks first and Domestic Animals later, since the two are similar (warm fuzzy +PS projects in Services). But that's a minor thing.
I'm iffy on skipping Fertilizer Plants to do only Synthesis Centers. We're coming up against a Food target at the end of the plan, and most of us are fairly committed to the idea of doing Fertilizer Plants for the +4 Food.
Given that the individual dice are expensive enough that we don't want to overinvest, having three turns to slow-walk Fertilizer Plants to completion seems very much worth doing. If we have to do it in two turns, then we've got a fair chance of a situation where we either complete the project with three dice in Q3 (and overinvest with the third), or spend two dice in Q3, don't get as close as we'd like, have to invest 2-3 dice in Q4... and overinvest with the fourth and/or fifth.
By contrast, two dice in Q2 means we can dribble out one die at a time as needed in Q3 and Q4. Haste makes waste, and we don't want to have to complete that project wastefully.
Meanwhile, although Synthesis Centers is important, we're not on a deadline regarding it.
So, couple of problems here. First off, obviously one of the cornerstones of your plan is that you think Agriculture is important, worth spending Free dice on. The problem is that Perennial Aquaponics Bays does effectively nothing to fulfill our Food target for the current Plan, because the food isn't available in time. Also, it is a much more expensive way to get Political Support than, say, some of our Services options, or even doing a round of communication satellites over in Orbital.
I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't do it, but we shouldn't prioritize it over stuff that's urgent and needs to be done by the end of the current Plan, such as Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays, Chemical Fertilizers, or even having more Free dice to put on the stabilizer project.
Speaking of which... I'm not sure your Tiberium dice add up. You're acting as if you're spending nine dice on the stabilizer project, and also three dice on other tiberium projects... But we don't have enough Tiberium and Free dice to do that because five plus six is eleven. Furthermore you're spending Free dice on other areas (e.g. Agriculture), too.
Uh... to be clear you are not activating all three Orbital dice this turn, right?
I actually kinda respect this dice breakdown. The only problem is, it has only a medium chance of completing URLS Phase 1 this turn, and we've been explicitly told that failure to do so could be a problem. The Air Force is already running short of missiles, and Ground Forces' stockpiles are set to last 3-9 months... as of the beginning of the quarter. If we roll low with your one die on URLS, then the Air Force runs out of missiles entirely and Ground Forces start to feel the pinch.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with flipping that around and putting one die on RWS-Predator and two dice on URLS. That way we don't eat Political Support costs for neglecting the tanks, and while tank turret production is temporarily stalled, that's not something the military goes through a lot of every damn day, whereas they do go through a lot of missiles.
Refitting the factories that produce consumables the military needs on a continuous basis to sustain combat operations is always kind of a fraught exercise, and we have to push hard to get it done as fast as possible.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan Steady Balance + Pathfinder
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'll do those savings next turn. I'm expecting my next plan to cost more. Also vote tally:
Huh? 🤔 Well in that case:
[X]In the Eye of the Maelstrom v2.3:
-[X]Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 200/640 20 Resources per Die, 5 Die = 100 Resources
-[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4) 628/1200 15 Resources per Die, 5 Die = 75 Resources
-[X] Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory 0/250 15 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 30 Resources
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 0/200 15 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 30 Resources
-[X] Yellow Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4) 44/160 10 Resources per Die, 2 Dice = 20 Resources
-[X] Spider Cotton Development 0/40 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
-[X] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 3) 200/640 20 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 20 Resources
-[X] Tiberium Stabilizers 0/2000 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 9 Fusion Dice = 180
-[X] Security Reviews Tiberium
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 5) 42/90 15 Resources per Die 10 Resources per Fusion Die, 2 Die = 30 Resources
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 1) 321/350 30 Resources per Die 20 Resources per Fusion Die, 1 Die = 30 Resources
-[X] Expand Medical Schools 0/300 10 Resources per Die, 3 Die = 30 Resources
-[X] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 10 Resources per Die, 1 Die = 10 Resources
-[X] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 225/350 10 Resources per Die, 2 Die = 20 Resources
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 1) 235/300 15 Resources per Die, 3 Dice = 45 Resources
-[X] Security Reviews Tiberium 2 Dice
[X] Plan Steady Balance
Voting for my own plan and the popular plan that uses all the dice. Edit: Fixed the second vote.
