def acrolgies it not pressing yet and mecca is way to important, for political , military reasons to afford only 2 die on it
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Yeah, I've made the edit. No dice on BZ Arcologies this turn, 3 dice on Rail Reconstruction.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The civilian economy still has a distinctly "gray dystopia" flavor to it because of all the stuff the planned economy can't be assed to do.
Co-ops are gathering capital to begin manufacturing. Waiting for this process to proceed indefinitely is going to significantly delay that part of the long-delayed postwar recovery, while doing very little that is on net good for the civilian economy.
If we actually care about this, we need to start pushing Blue Zone Light Industry harder.
Okay, but would you mind quoting their exact words and/or telling me who you're talking about? Because I can't tell if that's just one or two people in isolation, or what?
Because it offends against the sanctity and purity of the planned economy.
The Thunderbolt, that's the URLS system, yes? I think most of us are still calling it URLS...
Ehhh, yes and no.
See, at a co-op, most problems with how the company treats the workers are addressed at the shareholders' meeting, because the shareholders and the workers are the same group of people.
There are about six kinds of predatory behavior that enterprises can engage in:
1) Screwing over their suppliers.
2) Screwing over their customers.
3) Screwing over their contractors.
4) Screwing over their workers collectively
5) Screwing over specific groups of workers.
6) Screwing over the world with externalities, including people who don't have any specific relationship with the enterprise in question.
...
In a command economy, all these things remain possible. I's just that (1) and (3) become the domain of bureaucracy and office politics. And (2), (4), (5), and (6) become situations where the only recourse is to start writing letters to people higher up the political hierarchy in hopes that they can grab the Department of Economic Planning by the throat and shake them until they stop misbehaving.
In a system where non-state enterprises exist, different problems require different solutions. (1), (2), (3), and (6) are mostly solved by government regulations. The action of the market itself can sometimes help to solve some of the problems associated with (1) through (3), though it is super unhelpful towards (6).
Making the enterprise a co-op solves (4) but not (5), because a minority of workers can always be outvoted at the shareholder meeting.
And that's where the union comes in. At (5), and also they can help with (3).
...
Most enterprises of any significant size employ a variety of different workers in different roles. For instance, a movie studio will have far more people working on production than it has actors. Policies that abuse the actors will typically be popular with the co-op as a whole, as long as they are profitable and not too many individual production team workers are feeling bad about it. Making the studio a co-op therefore does not solve the problem. But if the actors have their own union across the entire industry, then it becomes feasible for them to set terms and conditions of their own employment by collective bargaining.
This is how unions help to address (5). They also have benefits for (3) in some scenarios, because 'unions' will somewhat overlap with (for instance) professional associations involving outside laborers with specialties that a co-op needs but doesn't want to integrate into its own structure.
The trick here is that democracy (just this once, listen to a nasty old liberal, he has his points sometimes) requires the combination of majority rule and minority rights. Co-ops impose majority rule on a business enterprise, but do little in and of themselves to enforce minority rights. Unions are more helpful for establishing minority rights within each enterprise, and also at an industry-wide level.
On the other hand, even this does not help solve problems of the co-op screwing over people who don't work for that particular co-op... But that's a problem that cannot be solved by workplace democracy. It has to be solved by old-fashioned regular political democracy.
Distaste? I hate capitalism! I despise it. It is the system which grinds humanity in it's gears, which kills millions every year and hollows out hundreds of millions, which destroys the future of humanity for the sake of profit.
To support capitalism is to support the great machine of death!
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
First point, I'm not saying there are "illegitimate" voters but with how heated some people are getting that will of been a decision point.
Secondly. Don't start equating a centrally planned economy to communism. We've had that debate and the 2 are not equal. This also does not mean we are removing our democratic government or subverting said government. Do not think that counts as an argument.
Thirdly. I am not saying that the QM has put in trap options, he's been very nice like that. But he did mention back when we first saw the labour cost for Service grants that there were costs we didn't see up front and that some projects will have costs and benefits we cannot predict right now.
Similarly, when the logistics costs for housing were brough up we were told that there would be costs in a similar vein for other grants. Given that duplex housing costs logistics for us to build and grants build such housing we also pay logistics for them.
LCI projects cost labour, energy and logistics to varying degrees meaning that over time we are likely to have to give up such resources to handle LCI grants. Particularly given that we are the source of all the capital goods and energy in the Initiave. Those "start ups" will grow in number and many could have a lot of energy intensive equipment especially for having up to 500 employees.
I am paying attention and indeed there are things we aren't making. Blue Zone LCI would likely help sort that as would arcologies as our cities will start to require less cars to get around. Of course so would the personal vehicle factories.
Yet we still don't need to do them and you still haven't given a reason as to why they are actually needed.
Grants do not automatically mean a change in laws to allow the formation of such companies.
Quite the opposite, we have nothing stopping them from forming and according to the narrative there are already coops gathering capital to get set up to provide for gaps in the market. There is no need for us to bend over backwards shelling out money and equipment now when we don't have any real urgent need to.
And do you live in a capitalist country? Surely if you loath it with such ardor, you would go to a socialist country.
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Kpatrol88
Cloud Hopper
I thought the machine of death was called Life? Or was that a different philosophical reference...
- Location
- Pennslyvania
- Pronouns
- She/They
Fuck it Godwin's law. I'd ask you to apply that logic to someone living in Nazi Germany for a second, and consider how ridiculous it is. You do not choose where you are born, and you do not always have a choice in where you live.
Yes, and therefore able to observe the monstrosity of it first-hand.
Is this some sort of foolish "gotcha!"?
[X] Plan Sorry Carter
- Location
- colombia
Oof out of all arguments you had to choose that
might as well say ''you want to live forevery yet you age''
people live on the country they are born out of necesity rather than choosing
I'm not sure if your incredibly dumb or just trolling. but i recommend people just block them.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I know I slept late, but there was still over 10 pages of posts. I need an EVA to summarise...
Personally, I do not see enough reasons to chase Mecca/Jeddah right now.
I'd prefer to see all Infra dice on Tidal, Arcologies and Rail. And Tib has a lot of attractive options.
Next quarter however, I'd be more than happy to make serious progress on Mecca/Jeddah, once we have a bit more Power/Logistics breathing room.
Still unsure about trying to push URLS through when we have so many other ongoing deployments and shortages to deal with.
Would prefer to defer that a quarter as well.
Personally, I do not see enough reasons to chase Mecca/Jeddah right now.
I'd prefer to see all Infra dice on Tidal, Arcologies and Rail. And Tib has a lot of attractive options.
Next quarter however, I'd be more than happy to make serious progress on Mecca/Jeddah, once we have a bit more Power/Logistics breathing room.
Still unsure about trying to push URLS through when we have so many other ongoing deployments and shortages to deal with.
Would prefer to defer that a quarter as well.
No, no, I'm serious, why would one live in a capitalist state if one hates capitalism so much? I simply cannot fathom that. If you can leave, that is, if you have the money to leave, why not do so? Because most capitalist states do not have closed borders. You do not have to escape a capitalist country, you can actually leave.
Edit: And I would appreciate it if you did not insult my intelligence, sir, since you do not know me from Adam.
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
We need to keep Mecca/Jeddah going steadily because doing so is supporting InOps work to flip the local warlords, which would be a huge win for us. There was a blurb back in the Q3 results last year about how they need Granger to keep up the work developing Mecca, otherwise they could run into issues.
As for URLS, the last few turns have seen us facing not only an increasing amount of Barghests in the sky, but also more and more aggressive Vertigo bomber strikes. So we want URLS, because URLS gives us QAAMs for shooting down NOD's new aircraft, which should swing the air war back in our favor.
Shells and Ablatives are next on the list, but we're not going to be making any more major pushes and NOD needs to fix its wrecked formations, so there's less of a demand for shells & Ablat right now. But the air battles are still ongoing.
Also, changed, just because it's a good idea.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I thought it meant the QAAM specifically, since that got folded in at the last minute.
Ah, yes, why would someone live where they were born? Just pull the money from your ass, leave your country, your culture, everyone and everything you know, jump through legal hoops, and immigrate to where exactly that's not part of capitalist world order?
This is a derail. Take it to PMs if you consider it vital to continue this conversation.
Vietnam is socialist. As is China. So is Cuba. If capitalism is truly such a scourge to you, then you have these countries as havens.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Moving onto other subjects, I think for the rest of Military spending this plan, we should get at least one Shell Plant phase done, and probably an Ablative Phase, but after that, I'm thinking we save our investment into Consumables for early next Plan.
Because we know that, as usual, start of next plan will see us in a resource crunch. And also probably have a Mandate from the Militarists to keep a minimum amount of Dice on Military each turn (and should probably endeavor to do so even if there isn't a mandate.) Since Shells and Ablative are both 10 Resources per Die, we can use them to cover that demand, and we'll need to build them up heavily for whenever we launch our next push anyway.
Because we know that, as usual, start of next plan will see us in a resource crunch. And also probably have a Mandate from the Militarists to keep a minimum amount of Dice on Military each turn (and should probably endeavor to do so even if there isn't a mandate.) Since Shells and Ablative are both 10 Resources per Die, we can use them to cover that demand, and we'll need to build them up heavily for whenever we launch our next push anyway.
- Location
- The Underdark
This discussion is not on topic and needs to be taken to PMs or dropped before I start reporting people.
Some people don't like capitalism. That is, especially in light of current events, an understandable position. But this is not the place to attack them, or to relitigate how late stage capitalism works.
Some people don't like capitalism. That is, especially in light of current events, an understandable position. But this is not the place to attack them, or to relitigate how late stage capitalism works.